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Thread: Why I now believe in Predistination/Election

  1. #41
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    Default Re: Why I now believe in Predistination/Election

    Quote Originally Posted by Spokenpassage View Post
    Beautiful. I use to always listen to Shai Linne years ago when I realized the same thing. What a blessed post on this Resurrection Day and Lord's Day most of all!
    What exactly is "beautiful" ? The fact that Calvin deceived you?
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    Default Re: Why I now believe in Predistination/Election

    Quote Originally Posted by Ash_JFF View Post
    I understand where you are coming from but I have to disagree. Our sinful nature would never want us to believe that we are lost. It would never want to show us that it is anything bad. It is the Holy Spirit that gives us that knowledge. It is only Him that reveals the utter depravity of the our sinful nature and shows us that we are lost.

    We would never know that we are lost if the Spirit did not give us that understanding to begin with. Why He chose to give a person that understanding is not based on anything that person has done but by the grace of God alone. He just felt like giving that knowledge to whomever He chose to give it to.
    Amazing! Praise God!
    "My beloved is mine, and I am his." - Song of Songs 2:16

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    Default Re: Why I now believe in Predistination/Election

    Quote Originally Posted by Sully View Post
    What exactly is "beautiful" ? The fact that Calvin deceived you?
    Calvin? It is beautiful, because election is based on nothing in, from, or about myself, but completely founded in himself. There was nothing in me that contributed to his choosing of me. Like she said, we are naturally depraved and totally corrupted that it was impossible for any of us to have come to Christ on our own, the Spirit had to irresistibly draw us and to regenerate us to make us aware of our condition and to work in us a repentant faith in Christ to be saved. It is all of grace!
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    "My beloved is mine, and I am his." - Song of Songs 2:16

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    Default Re: Why I now believe in Predistination/Election

    Quote Originally Posted by Spokenpassage View Post
    Calvin? It is beautiful, because election is based on nothing in, from, or about myself, but completely founded in himself. There was nothing in me that contributed to his choosing of me. Like she said, we are naturally depraved and totally corrupted that it was impossible for any of us to have come to Christ on our own, the Spirit had to irresistibly draw us and to regenerate us to make us aware of our condition and to work in us a repentant faith in Christ to be saved. It is all of grace!
    Sooooo, Calvin.
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    Default Re: Why I now believe in Predistination/Election

    Quote Originally Posted by Sully View Post
    Sooooo, Calvin.
    Okay, Calvin taught it, but it originally is found in Scripture. His book, 'Institutes of the Christian Religion,' is the largest work that has ever invested time on explaining these truths. So, it became associated with him, even though Christians have believed this for thousands of years.
    "My beloved is mine, and I am his." - Song of Songs 2:16

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    Default Re: Why I now believe in Predistination/Election

    Quote Originally Posted by preacher4truth View Post
    No ooooops excepting in your presumption.

    And? "Many are invited, but few are chosen" ends that parable.
    Then why were they invited?
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    Default Re: Why I now believe in Predistination/Election

    Quote Originally Posted by Spokenpassage View Post
    Okay, Calvin taught it, but it originally is found in Scripture. His book, 'Institutes of the Christian Religion,' is the largest work that has ever invested time on explaining these truths. So, it became associated with him, even though Christians have believed this for thousands of years.
    Enjoy your journey.
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    Default Re: Why I now believe in Predistination/Election

    Quote Originally Posted by Sully View Post
    Enjoy your journey.
    What journey?
    "My beloved is mine, and I am his." - Song of Songs 2:16

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    Default Re: Why I now believe in Predistination/Election

    Quote Originally Posted by Spokenpassage View Post
    Calvin? It is beautiful, because election is based on nothing in, from, or about myself, but completely founded in himself. There was nothing in me that contributed to his choosing of me. Like she said, we are naturally depraved and totally corrupted that it was impossible for any of us to have come to Christ on our own, the Spirit had to irresistibly draw us and to regenerate us to make us aware of our condition and to work in us a repentant faith in Christ to be saved. It is all of grace!
    Does the non-Christian bear any guilt on not knocking until it opens/

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    Default Re: Why I now believe in Predistination/Election

    Quote Originally Posted by LanceA View Post
    I really don't get into the predestination/election debate but I will chime in here. So my biggest issue with the above mentioned is, if we are already elected by God why in the world would anyone want to go out and evangelize? Why should I teach my son about God? Why would I pray for someone's salvation?

    If everyone is already hand picked then there is no need for me to pray for anyone to come to Christ. Maybe it is a simplified view on my part but it is how I see it.
    Well, first, we don't know who the elect are, so in evangelizing we are reaching a mixed crowd. Second, the only means for any of the elect to be saved has always been through evangelism. Third, this gives us the more reason to pray, because we know that God is the one who initiates salvation in someone's life under the preaching of the gospel.

    Let me reverse the questions.

    If God did not elect anyone, why even preach at all? Since everyone is corrupted with sin, and no one will respond to the gospel on their own, why even try?

    Also, if we intiate our own faith in Christ, why pray for people to be saved if God is not in control?
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    "My beloved is mine, and I am his." - Song of Songs 2:16

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    Default Re: Why I now believe in Predistination/Election

    The fact is this, no one has been deceived by Calvin, he merely expounded the truths of the Scriptures that Christ, the Prophets, Paul and others affirmed concerning the Sovereignty of God in all things, including election.

    Another fact is many have been deceived by Robert Sandeman, Charles G. Finney, Andrew Fuller, and Pelagius and others who preach the false gospel of decisional regeneration and free will. Many on here have been hoodwinked by these and those of their ilk.

    No one is free in their will; John 8:35, and salvation is not by choice; John 1:13; Romans 9:11ff, 1 Peter 1:1, 3, 5; James 1:18.
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    People are offended that God is God.

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    Default Re: Why I now believe in Predistination/Election

    Quote Originally Posted by DJ2 View Post
    Does the non-Christian bear any guilt on not knocking until it opens/
    The non-Christian will be guilty for their sin. None of us deserves to be saved, you agree? All deserves to be punished, do you agree? So is God obligated to save anyone? No. Is God in the wrong to save a few? No, we all deserve the same sentence.
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    "My beloved is mine, and I am his." - Song of Songs 2:16

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    Default Re: Why I now believe in Predistination/Election

    Quote Originally Posted by Ash_JFF View Post
    I have not been on this chat in 3 years but I felt heavily compelled in my heart to write this today.


    I have always struggled to make sense of the predestination verses. (Romans 8: 29-30, Matthew 11:27, Psalm 65:4, Romans 9, etc.) To make sense of it I tried to think that God chose people to be saved based of knowing the future and seeing people choosing Him, hence the “foreknowing” but now I know how flawed that way of thinking is. In regards to free will I used to think how God made the way of salvation clear and just waited for us to accept like a gift. I now know how flawed that way of thinking is as well.


    Yes, these predestination verses helped me to better understand but I still fought against it because I didn’t want to believe that God would choose some and not others. Ultimately I wanted to believe that I had a choice. How selfish and prideful I was to think that way.
    Not trying to rain on your parade or anything, but I question a person's salvation when they can't spiritually discern John 3:16.

    New International Version
    For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

    New Living Translation
    "For God loved the world so much that he gave his one and only Son, so that everyone who believes in him will not perish but have eternal life.

    English Standard Version
    “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.

    Berean Study Bible
    For God so loved the world that He gave His one and only Son, that everyone who believes in Him shall not perish but have eternal life.

    Berean Literal Bible
    For God so loved the world that He gave the only begotten Son, so that everyone believing in Him should not perish, but should have eternal life.

    New American Standard Bible
    "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.

    King James Bible
    For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.


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    Default Re: Why I now believe in Predistination/Election

    Quote Originally Posted by stonesoffire View Post
    Good post.

    My understanding of foreknowledge is that God is outside of time. He sees the end of all things from the beginning.
    I completely agree with that! God is an infinite being - much greater than the universe itself.

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    Default Re: Why I now believe in Predistination/Election

    Oh, no! He used the John 3:16 on us! What are are we going to do!
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    "My beloved is mine, and I am his." - Song of Songs 2:16

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    Default Re: Why I now believe in Predistination/Election

    Well we are curious what will you do troll?

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    Default Re: Why I now believe in Predistination/Election

    Quote Originally Posted by Sully View Post
    Well we are curious what will you do troll?
    Pray for you and ourselves to come to the same truth.
    "My beloved is mine, and I am his." - Song of Songs 2:16

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    Default Re: Why I now believe in Predistination/Election

    Quote Originally Posted by Stephen63 View Post
    Not trying to rain on your parade or anything,

    You haven't so no worries.

    but I question a person's salvation when they can't spiritually discern John 3:16.
    Repent then, and believe the Gospel because yours, by that rule, is under question.

    The whosoever's are the elect and I always love the pretense, ignorance and presumption that somewhow this word undoes the Doctrines of Grace and the fact of Sovereign election.

    The fact that God so loved the world is understood in the fact this was perplexing to the Jew, especially seen in the one who had written this. God didn't just love the Jews, He loved the world, or, in other words those elect who are not Jewish.
    People are offended that God is God.

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    Default Re: Why I now believe in Predistination/Election

    Quote Originally Posted by Spokenpassage View Post
    Pray for you and ourselves to come to the same truth.
    Ah well let's dispatch with that soft spokenpassage the one thing we have in common is we both know what your role is....
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    Default Re: Why I now believe in Predistination/Election

    Quote Originally Posted by Sully View Post
    Ah well let's dispatch with that soft spokenpassage the one thing we have in common is we both know what your role is....
    Why have you come after me?
    Stunnedbygrace and Depleted like this.
    "My beloved is mine, and I am his." - Song of Songs 2:16

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