Why I now believe in Predistination/Election

[PeterJens]

The enemy at work

The enemy will distract people from simple realities.
1. Sinful behaviour is evil, needs to be dealt with, repented of
2. Love is King. Love heals and resolves issues
3. Behaviour reflects the state of our hearts.

All these three principles the enemy will find reasons to deny, obscure, detract from,
bring horrendous anger and slander to silence everyone and anyone who focuses on them.

In islam they ignore your conscience, your love, your loyalties, your justice.
Everything is just blind obedience, and through obedience you hope to count more good
points than bad points. Muhammed invented a good points multiplier.

Overt grace ignores ones emotions, behaviour and conscience, and claims you have arrived
without anything happening. To make anything happen is evil self work, so total passivity is
best because it is all Gods work.

The gospel is simple. As sinners we need to repent, until we need to repent no more,
to deal with all the sinful issues we have.

We need to recognise our love and Gods love and set it free in our lives, to become
emotionally alive and free in Christs strength through the cross, by seeing His love
that drove Him to sacrifice Himself for us and forgive us of our sin and blindness.

We need a clean pure heart, letting God heal and change us, putting Christ in the
centre of all we do, in thought, word and deed, and from our hearts will come blessing
and good for all.

The distraction of the enemy will always detract from this because he hates it
completely and wants to stop Gods Kingdom as if he could.

So mark them well these false teachers, who squid ink the truths of the good news.
They make plain their animosity to the gospel and those who preach it, so there
is no mistaking them.

 

[Grace777x70]

God has "predestined us in Christ to give us new hearts". There is no such thing as trying to make our own hearts pure. There is a renewing of the mind for us to "confess or say the same thing" with what God says about us as a new creation in Christ.

Man's heart was corrupted with the mystery of iniquity that entered into man-kind through Adam's transgression and it is passed on through the blood which is one of the reasons why Jesus had to be born from the Holy Spirit to by-pass the blood of man contaminating Him.

In the OT man's heart was desperately wicked because people were still "in Adam". The heart is the old man that was in Adam but now that Christ has came - we believers have a new heart. We have a new man of the heart now in Christ.

Get this wrong and we create a doctrine of a "new evolution" instead of a new creation in Christ. We create an works-based humanistic mindset that actually denies the work of the Lord Jesus Christ.

In the next post I will show that believers in Christ have a new heart now. I believe the understanding of this is vital to growing up in the Lord. We need to get our "identity" correct.

 

[Grace777x70]

All born-again Christians are pure in heart. It's the same reason why all water is wet. It's the very nature of it.

Thank God that the gospel of the grace of Christ has given us believers a new heart which is pure because it is in Christ!

I believe that scripture teaches that we have new hearts now in Christ as a new creation in Him.

In the Old Testament David cried out prophetically - looking into this New Covenant and sais - "Create in me a clean heart O God". Jesus Himself says to "clean up the inside of the cup and the vessel will be clean".

We don't need to search our hearts for wrong things - we need to have our minds renewed to the truth of Christ living in us now.

It's the flesh that "speaks" to us as all the "works" in Gal 5 are from the flesh. We are not "in the flesh" as Paul says in Romans 8:9 - but we are "in the Spirit" - our inner man in Christ.

We need as Christians to learn to live from this new heart that was "created" in us because of Christ's finished work for us.

I firmly believe we are confusing the "desires of the flesh which still has the law of sin in it" ( Romans 7:23 ) and wrongly calling it our heart.

We have been circumcised with the circumcision of the heart - called the circumcision of Christ and the body of flesh. Col 2:11. This is also called "being sealed by the Holy Spirit" Eph 1:13

The Holy Spirit "cut away" ( as in physical circumcision ) the body of the flesh from the inner man who is in Christ - the new creation - created in righteousness and holiness. Eph 4:23

Here are the reasons why I believe we Christians have a new heart now in Christ and not a corrupted heart. We need to learn how to live from this new heart which is where Christ is in us as one spirit by the Holy Spirit.

The believers new heart in Christ is created in righteousness and holiness: First it was prophesied in the Old Testament.

Ezekiel 36:26 (NASB)
[SUP]26 [/SUP] "Moreover, I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; and I will remove the heart of stone ( old man ) from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. ( new man in Christ )


Romans 2:29 (NASB)
[SUP]29 [/SUP] But he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that which is of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the letter; and his praise is not from men, but from God.

By grace we have been given a new heart that is obedient.

Romans 6:17 (NASB)
[SUP]17 [/SUP] But thanks be to God that though you were slaves of sin, you became obedient from the heartto that form of teaching to which you were committed,

God cleaned house and moved in. God will not dwell in unrighteousness. God through the Holy Spirit is in our inner man now.

Ephesians 3:16-17 (NASB)
[SUP]16 [/SUP] that He would grant you, according to the riches of His glory, to be strengthened with power through His Spirit in the inner man,

[SUP]17 [/SUP] so that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith; and that you, being rooted and grounded in love,

God sealed us and gave us the Holy Spirit in our new hearts.

2 Corinthians 1:22 (NASB)
[SUP]22 [/SUP] who also sealed us and gave us the Spirit in our hearts as a pledge.

We have the Spirit of God's Son in our hearts now.

Galatians 4:6 (NASB)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] Because you are sons, God has sent forththe Spirit of His Son into our hearts, crying, "Abba! Father!"

God has cleansed our hearts by faith.

Acts 15:8-9 (NASB)
[SUP]8 [/SUP] "And God, who knows the heart, testified to them giving them the Holy Spirit, just as He also did to us;

[SUP]9 [/SUP] and He made no distinction between us and them, cleansing their hearts by faith.

We love from our hearts now as it is pure.

1 Timothy 1:5 (NASB)
[SUP]5 [/SUP] But the goal of our instruction is love from a pure heart and a good conscience and a sincere faith.

2 Timothy 2:22 (NASB)
[SUP]22 [/SUP] Now flee from youthful lusts and pursue righteousness, faith, love and peace, with those who call on the Lord from a pure heart. (this is a believer in Christ..hang around them )

1 Peter 3:4 (NASB)
[SUP]4 [/SUP] but let it be the hidden person of the heart, with the imperishable quality of a gentle and quiet spirit, which is precious in the sight of God.

There are more but this should work to show that the believer has a new heart in Christ.

We still have the flesh to deal with in our bodies and we are admonished to not to yield to that...but all that is a different subject.

God "predestined us in Christ" to have a new heart that we can trust and live from. The spirit of man is the candle of the Lord - lighting up.searching all the inward parts of the belly. Prov. 20:27

 

[BeyondET]

Haha! Just don't forget that you lost me first.
So you started it! HAHA!
I'll go find the post, hang on.

lol... if you feel the need to, but however I'll be making a thread shortly on that very topic and how it is misread what Paul was implying...

 

[PeterJens]

Pssssss - Listen, you only want to be good because you think God will go easy on you.

Get behind me satan. "Be Holy because I am Holy."

To know God is to love, to know righteousness is to be righteous, to be justified is
to repent of ones sin, confess and turn to God, believing on the cross and walking the way
of Jesus.

We walk in righteousness because sin is evil and death, it destroys people and the people
we love.

Flee the evil desires of youth and pursue righteousness, faith, love and peace, along with those who call on the Lord out of a pure heart.
2 Tim 2:22

See to it, brothers and sisters, that none of you has a sinful, unbelieving heart that turns away from the living God.
Heb 3:12

In your hearts revere Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have.
1 Peter 3:15

 

[PeterJens]

All born-again Christians are pure in heart.

This is getting repeated a lot.

If this is true, then a lot of people are not born-again believers.
A lot of people have said to me only when we see Christ will we have a pure heart.

So I think you are spouting the very thing you condemn, people being righteous today,
now, when their hearts are full of greed, self indugence, sinful lusts etc.
It is so bad some deny you even need to touch their emotions or how they feel.

So welcome to delusion land.

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

Ok I'll explain, you want to believe God gave you the ability to believe so that verse as it is written fits that mentality to the tee.

Now I had never said you didnt have nothing good, that is your own thinking not mine I never said it that way, you brought up having nothing good, not my words. quote me where I said you have nothing good that God Himself didn't give you. That's Astro projecting stuff. I didn't place that thought in your head.

Here it is, took me forever! That verse as it is written fits with what I think. This is why you were wishing the verse had been reworded differently, because if it had been, I would not think as I did. But because it is written as it is, that is WHY I think as I do.

I'll check out your new thread when I return later.

 

[PeterJens]

g7 will continue to preach his stuff, because he thinks talking about doing good things
is the reason the world is doomed to hell.

I suppose we should actually all talk about doing evil sinful things, things that should not
be discussed or mentioned among the people of God. No.

Have nothing to do with the fruitless deeds of darkness, but rather expose them. It is shameful even to mention what the disobedient do in secret.
Eph 5:11-12

Instead, be filled with the Spirit, speaking to one another with psalms, hymns, and songs from the Spirit. Sing and make music from your heart to the Lord, always giving thanks to God the Father for everything, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ.
Eph 5:18-20

 

[Grace777x70]

Hebrews 3:12 (KJV)
[SUP]12 [/SUP] Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.

The writer of "Hebrews" to the "Hebrews" said make sure that there are not any amongst us that do not believe in Christ from the heart and not have Christ in them. Examine yourself to see if Christ is in you is what Paul said to the Corinthians. There will always be tares in with the wheat Jesus said.

The Jewish people as the ones being addressed in Hebrews relate to themselves whether they be Christians believing in Christ or not as "brethren".

Here are a few examples of where James, Paul, Peter and Stephen used the term "brethren" in talking with the Jews. Gentiles like us were called "sinners" and sometimes "dogs"...lol

Acts 1:16; Acts 2:29; Acts 3:17; Acts 7:2; Acts 13:26, 38; Acts 22:1; Acts 23:5

Believers in Christ - new creations in Him have a new heart and not an evil heart of unbelief as the rest of the scriptures show.

Christ is our righteousness and holiness. Without being pure in heart - we would never see God - now we can because of Christ's work.

Just like Jesus said "Repent and believe the gospel".

Believe the good news - news is something that has already happened. Thank you Lord! We have a great salvation in Him.

 

[gb9]

g7 will continue to preach his stuff, because he thinks talking about doing good things
is the reason the world is doomed to hell.

I suppose we should actually all talk about doing evil sinful things, things that should not
be discussed or mentioned among the people of God. No.

Have nothing to do with the fruitless deeds of darkness, but rather expose them. It is shameful even to mention what the disobedient do in secret.
Eph 5:11-12

Instead, be filled with the Spirit, speaking to one another with psalms, hymns, and songs from the Spirit. Sing and make music from your heart to the Lord, always giving thanks to God the Father for everything, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ.
Eph 5:18-20

well, you think that really strongly emotionally from a heart level make you holy and righteous, while you ignore the standards set forth in the Bible. you think feelings equate reality. so, maybe you should actually use facts instead of feelings, and stop telling others what they think, while you are ruled by emotions, not facts.

 

[gb9]

Hebrews 3:12 (KJV)
[SUP]12 [/SUP] Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.

The writer of "Hebrews" to the "Hebrews" said make sure that there are not any amongst us that do not believe in Christ from the heart and not have Christ in them. Examine yourself to see if Christ is in you is what Paul said to the Corinthians. There will always be tares in with the wheat Jesus said.

The Jewish people as the ones being addressed in Hebrews relate to themselves whether they be Christians believing in Christ or not as "brethren".

Here are a few examples of where James, Paul, Peter and Stephen used the term "brethren" in talking with the Jews. Gentiles like us were called "sinners" and sometimes "dogs"...lol

Acts 1:16; Acts 2:29; Acts 3:17; Acts 7:2; Acts 13:26, 38; Acts 22:1; Acts 23:5

Believers in Christ - new creations in Him have a new heart and not an evil heart of unbelief as the rest of the scriptures show.

Christ is our righteousness and holiness. Without being pure in heart - we would never see God - now we can because of Christ's work.

Just like Jesus said "Repent and believe the gospel".

Believe the good news - news is something that has already happened. Thank you Lord! We have a great salvation in Him.

hope you don't mind if I say this time-

THE SKY IS BLUE.................

 

[PeterJens]

Againb, it is ok,, He is ignored. If he wants to talk as a Christian talks

It is interesting the defilement and judgementalism people breath without even trying.

Make no mistake this amount of animosity without foundation leads to very evil places
and bitterness, where sin will break out and destroy innocents and the person themselves.

People imagine themselves as innocents with something of value. If in their innocence
they condemn and destroy others, hide sin that dwells in their hearts and refuse to grow
or change, than they become part of the problem and not the solution.

I have one real calling, deal with sin, let love become your master and righteousness your
armour, let Christ go before you with peace and truth, may the cross be always in your mind
as you serve and help others. Against such there is no law.

The fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law. Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.
Gal 5:22-24

 

[Grace777x70]

hope you don't mind if I say this time-

THE SKY IS BLUE.................

What?

The sky is not green - everyone knows the sky is blue.......you just think that talking about good things is the reason the world is doomed to hell.

Every fiber of our being says - "What?.....where in the world do they get this stuff?"

 

[PeterJens]

well, you think that really strongly emotionally from a heart level make you holy and righteous, while you ignore the standards set forth in the Bible. you think feelings equate reality. so, maybe you should actually use facts instead of feelings, and stop telling others what they think, while you are ruled by emotions, not facts.

gb9 - So your point has moved from I am not using Gods standards for sin, to I am talking about
feelings.

Well done, you appear to get the subject right but not the facts. Odd that for someone trying
to say facts matter.

 

[gb9]

gb9 - So your point has moved from I am not using Gods standards for sin, to I am talking about
feelings.

Well done, you appear to get the subject right but not the facts. Odd that for someone trying
to say facts matter.

I am stating facts. facts matter. you do not know what other people think. you do not know if others are saved or not. I do not either. only God knows these things.
feeing really strongly from the heart does not make something factual.

 

[PeterJens]

Interesting observation

gb9, g7 and EG will always spout the same stuff, not to the point, but just their
propoganda. Any real truth will bounce off like a ball, so I expect nothing else.

God bless them, they are at least trying, E- for application, A+ for effort.

 

[PeterJens]

I am stating facts. facts matter. you do not know what other people think. you do not know if others are saved or not. I do not either. only God knows these things.
feeing really strongly from the heart does not make something factual.

gb9 - apart from stating the obvious, you have missed the point or even making a co-herent point.

The heart is who you are, do you not know this. Feelings are just your reactions to life, they
are what is going on, which is factual, but they do not define the world outside yourself, they
define how you see the world and interact with it. Are you really this ignorant of how emotions
change how you look at things? Are you that repressed, you cannot tell when you are angry things
appear different than when you are calm?

These are the facts of our hearts. As I said you are not actually saying anything of any sense.

 

[Depleted]

I suppose the question I come to is this, Does God only inspire some by his spirit? I personally think He inspires all by His Spirit. I believe we have choice because He has given us choice. The choice is simple, resist that Spirit or surrender to it.

If God inspired all with his Spirit the Bible would be a very large book with billions and billions of books in it.

I'd hate to serve a god who inspires ISIS.

 

[Depleted]

I don't believe in predestination. I'm not blaming anybody for understanding anything...I'm saying I do not agree with it.

So where am I repeating a lie?

Here is your repeated lie:

Originally Posted by 1ofthem

The thing about it is that predestination is saying some folks will be condemned to hell just because that's what God wanted for them and no other real reason.

Want to repeat it again because "I don't believe in predestination?" Which just so you know we get what you're saying (which, at least means we've read and comprehended what you've said -- something you refuse to do in return), is the same thing as saying, "I only believe what I want to believe about God. Not like I'm bound to believe everything the Bible says about him. I am free to pick and choose."

 

[Depleted]

I'm not ignoring anything anyone said...I do not agree with it and that is the difference.

No. Really. Many people have defined the word, and yet you keep misrepresenting it at best, lied about it at worse, reinvented it somewhere in between, so, yes, you really are ignoring.

You cannot disagree with something when you absolutely refuse to acknowledge what it is or absolutely refuse to understand what it is first. And therefore, you simply keep repeating yourself as if it can't possibly be you, it's everyone else. These are the tactics of a toddler. Didn't work back then, doesn't work now.

So which will it be? Will you take the time to learn what it is first, or keep going on and on with invented definitions and then blaming everyone else but you? (And I have no intention on teaching you what has already been taught fine on this thread. If you decide to learn what it is, then you do the homework to catch up.) That I really do give you as your choice. I merely ask to see where this goes from here. You keep playing this game, and then I make my decision -- whether to get off this merry-go-round you're on or not. That choice depends on your choice.