Why I now believe in Predistination/Election

[Depleted]

Actually foreknowledge is being confused with predestination. Predestination as presented in the bible occurs after salvation not as a mechanism to salvation. When Adam fell in the garden he received the knowledge of good an evil. This makes it possible and necessary for man to choose between salvation in Christ or remaining lost in the darkness of sin.

Physical pain remains a consequence of sin on the world. No one is immune to pain and physical suffering. Although I often wonder how the unsaved cope with sorrow and pain.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Pre = before.
Post = after.

How did predestination turn into postdestination?

Salvation (per Merriam-Webster) =

• 1a : deliverance from the power and effects of sinb : the agent or means that effects salvationc Christian Science : the realization of the supremacy of infinite Mind over all bringing with it the destruction of the illusion of sin, sickness, and death
  
• 2: liberation from ignorance or illusion
  
• 3a : preservation from destruction or failureb : deliverance from danger or difficulty

Unless you believe the definition according the Christian Scientists, how do you think there is a before or after for salvation? God saves! He started doing that before he ever said, "let there be." He's still doing that. He's finished doing that (but, again, only because he's outside time.)

Did we deliver ourselves from the power and effects of sin? Are we done delivering ourselves? Is there ever a period in our lives when we don't need deliverance from the effects of sin? I don't see before or after for salvation. I see God at work throughout. And because God is God, he's successful for whom he chooses to save.

(As for pain? Yup, definitely a consequence of the Fall, and yet God uses it to remind me I always need him versus calling on him only when I'm neck deep in quicksand and sinking fast. lol)

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

I have had today ice cream - 2 types...which was yummy. Some chocolates. Butter tarts. I'm eating a whole pizza now - loaded. I will have a complete rack of ribs later. And whatever else I desire at the time. Re-feed days are like winning a trip to Hawaii! Mahalo!

yikes, that's a lot! I don't know if I could eat a whole pizza and a whole rack of ribs even in TWO days...
My mom goes on very strict diets and tortures herself. It is much easier and less painless to me to not deny myself a list of things but to just not eat as much at a sitting (consistently, not forever and ever without a failed sitting here and there).
I don't know, I just do better to say: one piece of pizza is enough, don't worry Jen, you can heat up another piece in 4 or 5 hours. It'll still be there, don't panic! But if I told myself I couldn't have ANY pizza, I'd climb the wall I think!

 

[Depleted]

LOL....everyone knows the sky is really purple...

Honestly I don't know how you "heretics" that see things differently then some others don't get burned at the stake anymore....

It was hard to come up with a color the sky never has been. lol

 

[Grace777x70]

yeah.. um, what makes people think King Saul was regenerated??

i'm not saying he wasn't (though i doubt it, yet only God knows).
i'm just saying scholars have debated it for ages. commentaries differ for this reason.

apostasy warnings are to be taken seriously. it's the Word of God.
but God uses the means of the warnings to keep His own. His sheep will hear His voice and follow Him.

I agree. No where in scripture does it say that Saul was born-again before Christ even died on the cross. People that believe one can lose their salvation in Christ just like to use him as an example and so they try to make it look like Saul is like the believer in the New Covenant.

That is the whole reason why Christ died - to make us righteous and to give us a new heart just as God said He would in Ezekiel. God said "I will put in them a new heart."

Apostasy is falling away from the faith to rely on our own self-works instead of what Christ has done.

People love to quote Tim. 4 :1 but they don't finish the rest of the context to show exactly what this "falling away" is. It is people trying by their own works to make themselves acceptable. Verse 3-5 show what this "falling away" - apostasy is.

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

...that was random...

 

[Depleted]

New International Version
And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to myself."

New Living Translation
And when I am lifted up from the earth, I will draw everyone to myself."

English Standard Version
And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to myself.”

Berean Study Bible
And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all men to Myself."

Berean Literal Bible
And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all to Myself."

New American Standard Bible
"And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all men to Myself."

King James Bible
And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.

Holman Christian Standard Bible
As for Me, if I am lifted up from the earth I will draw all people to Myself."

International Standard Version
As for me, if I am lifted up from the earth, I will draw all people to myself."

Matthew 4:23 Adj-AFS
GRK: καὶ θεραπεύων πᾶσαν νόσον καὶ
NAS: and healing every kind
KJV: and healing all manner of sickness and
INT: and healing every disease and
Matthew 4:23 Adj-AFS
GRK: νόσον καὶ πᾶσαν μαλακίαν ἐν
NAS: every kind of disease
KJV: and all manner of disease
INT: disease and every sickness among
Matthew 4:24 Adj-AMP
GRK: προσήνεγκαν αὐτῷ πάντας τοὺς κακῶς
NAS: and they brought to Him all who were ill,
KJV: they brought unto him all sick people
INT: they brought to him all sick
Matthew 5:11 Adj-ANS
GRK: καὶ εἴπωσιν πᾶν πονηρὸν καθ'
NAS: say all kinds of evil
KJV: shall say all manner of evil
INT: and shall say all kinds of evil against
Matthew 5:15 Adj-DMP
GRK: καὶ λάμπει πᾶσιν τοῖς ἐν
NAS: and it gives light to all who are in the house.
KJV: it giveth light unto all that are in
INT: and it shines for all who [are] in
Matthew 5:18 Adj-NNP
GRK: ἕως ἂν πάντα γένηται
NAS: until all is accomplished.
KJV: the law, till all be fulfilled.
INT: until anyhow all come to pass
Matthew 5:22 Adj-NMS
GRK: ὑμῖν ὅτι πᾶς ὁ ὀργιζόμενος
NAS: But I say to you that everyone who is angry
KJV: That whosoever is angry
INT: to you that every one who is angry with
Matthew 5:28 Adj-NMS
GRK: ὑμῖν ὅτι πᾶς ὁ βλέπων
NAS: but I say to you that everyone who looks
KJV: That whosoever looketh
INT: to you that every one that looks upon
Matthew 5:32 Adj-NMS
GRK: ὑμῖν ὅτι πᾶς ὁ ἀπολύων
NAS: but I say to you that everyone who divorces
INT: to you that everyone who shall divorce
Matthew 6:29 Adj-DFS
GRK: Σολομὼν ἐν πάσῃ τῇ δόξῃ
NAS: Solomon in all his glory
KJV: Solomon in all his glory
INT: Solomon in all the glory
Matthew 6:32 Adj-ANP
GRK: πάντα γὰρ ταῦτα
NAS: eagerly seek all these things;
KJV: after all these things
INT: all indeed these things
Matthew 6:33 Adj-NNP
GRK: καὶ ταῦτα πάντα προστεθήσεται ὑμῖν
NAS: and His righteousness, and all these things
KJV: and all these things
INT: and these things all will be added to you
Matthew 7:8 Adj-NMS
GRK: πᾶς γὰρ ὁ
NAS: For everyone who asks receives,
KJV: For every one that asketh receiveth;
INT: everyone indeed who


Ellicott's Commentary for English Readers

Will draw all men unto me.—Better, . . . unto Myself. The words “all men” are not to be limited by interpretations which refer them to nations, or to elect persons within nations; but are to be taken in all the fulness of their width as meaning simply what they say—“all.” The drawing unto Himself is the assertion of His reign over the world, from which the prince of evil shall be cast out. He will Himself be the centre of the new kingdom, from which none shall be shut out. These Greeks who are drawn to Him now are the first-fruits of the harvest of which the whole world is the field, and of which the last day is to be the great in gathering. The word “draw” occurs once in the New Testament, besides this passage, in a moral sense (John 6:44; comp. Note on it there). It is accomplished in the work of the Holy Spirit, whose mission to the Church was dependent on the ascension of our Lord (John 7:39; John 16:7); and the promise is fulfilled even in the case of those who resist the Holy Spirit’s influence. They are drawn by the moral power of the life and death and resurrection of Christ brought home to them by the Holy Ghost; but no moral power can compel a will which is free.

Barnes' Notes on the Bible
Be lifted up - See John 3:14; John 8:28.Will draw - John 6:44. The same word is used in both places.All men - I will incline all kinds of men; or will make the way open by the cross, so that all men may come. I will provide a way which shall present a strong motive or inducement - the strongest that can be presented to all men to come to me.

I don't know where G777 gets his info, but he needs to throw it away.

THE SKY IS BLUE!

 

[PeterJens]

Born again

This concept must have an old testament aspect to it because Jesus expected
Nicodemus to know this spiritual reality.

Will have to investigate further, because I have never actually asked this of
myself before. Interesting.

 

[Grace777x70]

...that was random...

LOL..it had to do with "pop ups"....and of course the pop-tarts too...

 

[PeterJens]

g7 - He believes that certain ideas corrupt you, he calls it spiritual porn.

Funny but the roman catholics had the same idea, you could only read
ok books in case you got defiled. A very religious idea, lol.

And from g7, ohhhh, what a shock ...

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

LOL..it had to do with "pop ups"....and of course the pop-tarts too...

What did you just call me...??

 

[PeterJens]

The Lord your God will circumcise your hearts and the hearts of your descendants, so that you may love him with all your heart and with all your soul, and live.
Deut 30:6

The OT does not dwell on the spiritual relationship with God much.
The above indicates we need a new heart to walk with the Lord.

 

[BeyondET]

Sigh, have to go. Once again I have enjoyed speaking with you all.
You're sweethearts!
(Except for cantaloupe head!) Private joke there. Only cantaloupe head will understand it, sorry.

It's not a Private Joke, nothing is Private.

 

[Depleted]

Well, sweatheart, if you walk in the Spirit, you won't have anything to do with heresy.

There's something wrong when false doctrine is being spread & people say, "can't we all just get along?"

Switch hitter? You just sided with two completely different sides of an argument just to prove you are the point.

If you'd actually been paying attention to anyone but yourself, you could have at least picked a side -- or even if you wanted to side.

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

Born again

This concept must have an old testament aspect to it because Jesus expected
Nicodemus to know this spiritual reality.

Will have to investigate further, because I have never actually asked this of
myself before. Interesting.

Hmm...never noted or thought about that...! Yes, He seemed to expect Nicodemus to already know that if he was a teacher...this is the most intriguing a nd thought provoking thing I've heard yet this morning...not sure how to go about trying to look into that...

 

[Desertsrose]

I don't think I'm a one time case...I think there are others who just suddenly saw one day. It can't be just me. Out of millions of people? And it's okay. You don't have to discuss with me. I won't be offended.

Actually I went from a complete heathen, not knowing the Lord to believing in Him without months or years learning. I knew nothing about religion or Jesus. I didn't know John 3:16.

But through a decision to divorce, God saved our marriage. We both were saved when God revealed Himself to us. We weren't looking for Him at all. But my husband prayed one night and he was saved.

I was saved a couple weeks later. Not because I researched Him, but because He wooed and revealed Himself to me - it was supernatural.

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

It's not a Private Joke, nothing is Private.

To anyone who's read the whole thread. To someone who hasn't, they wouldn't get it.

 

[Depleted]

It would be cruel to give one a land flowing with milk and honey and then make their tummy not accept it...

Truthfully, I think new bodies won't require food, liquids, or sleep. We're be getting our sustainable from God, as we were created to do.

(But, nuts? I miss nuts too. lol)

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

Actually I went from a complete heathen, not knowing the Lord to believing in Him without months or years learning. I knew nothing about religion or Jesus. I didn't know John 3:16.

But through a decision to divorce, God saved our marriage. We both were saved when God revealed Himself to us. We weren't looking for Him at all. But my husband prayed one night and he was saved.

I was saved a couple weeks later. Not because I researched Him, but because He wooed and revealed Himself to me - it was supernatural.

Well that makes you smile!
And then we have men like Stroebel who actually went hunting down evidence to make a decision by. It's not the same for everyone. Nice to meet someone who can prove to me by their own experience that I'm not an anomaly.

 

[BeyondET]

To anyone who's read the whole thread. To someone who hasn't, they wouldn't get it.

Thats where you don't understand about it.

 

[Depleted]

And that's one reason why we ignore them and don't interact with them. People just believe certain things differently and if you don't see it like "I and my group" does - then it means I can insult you and have malice towards you all I want and then slander you.

I ignore these types of posts like I do the porn ads that pop up on my PC from time to time.

Speaking of "pop up"...I wonder if I have any "pop-tarts" seeing that it is "International Bruce re-feed day!"...lol

The sky is beginning to go all chocolate on me now....

Take a look at this beautiful chocolate one with the chemically laden white frosting..

You need to check out "AdBlock." I don't remember the last time I got a popup. (And how is it I've never received porn? How do they know, I'm a girl, so just no? After all, these are the same people who think I want to check out dresses. Just-no to dresses too. lol)