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Thread: Why I now believe in Predistination/Election

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    Senior Member Ash_JFF's Avatar
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    Lightbulb Why I now believe in Predistination/Election

    I have not been on this chat in 3 years but I felt heavily compelled in my heart to write this today.


    I have always struggled to make sense of the predestination verses. (Romans 8: 29-30, Matthew 11:27, Psalm 65:4, Romans 9, etc.) To make sense of it I tried to think that God chose people to be saved based of knowing the future and seeing people choosing Him, hence the “foreknowing” but now I know how flawed that way of thinking is. In regards to free will I used to think how God made the way of salvation clear and just waited for us to accept like a gift. I now know how flawed that way of thinking is as well.


    Yes, these predestination verses helped me to better understand but I still fought against it because I didn’t want to believe that God would choose some and not others. Ultimately I wanted to believe that I had a choice. How selfish and prideful I was to think that way.


    It was not a verse about predestination that opened the door to the truth but actually verses about our utter depravity of sin:
    Psalm 53:2-3
    God looks down from heaven
    on all mankind
    to see if there are any who understand,
    any who seek God.
    Everyone has turned away, all have become corrupt;
    there is no one who does good,
    not even one.



    I have read these verses before but about 1-2 years ago these verses really hit home to how sinful I really am. We always want to find some kind of good in us, some kind of tiny little ray of light (even if it’s the act of choosing God) and to show God saying, “Look, I did this! I chose You!”


    Ultimately that is pride. It is us trying to believe that we are capable of goodness outside of Christ. In reality that is not possible. Even as Christians we are filled with sin: our actions, out thoughts, even our prayers are tainted with sin. There is no escape, no explaining away, and no changing it. We are filled with sin at all times.


    In addition, because we are always filled with sin, our base nature is to reject anything that is of Christ. We were born into rebellion and live on in ultimate rebellion before becoming a Christian. It is impossible for anything in us to choose the salvation of Christ. No matter how free, wonderful, loving etc…..it is impossible. Our sin nature would never allow it. Evil would never choose its destruction which is Christ.


    That is how I finally realized that predestination makes sense. Because it is literally the ONLY way that I would ever “choose” salvation. It is the Spirit of God that has given me the desire for Jesus, and it is His Spirit that has given me the power to “choose” Him.


    Yes, at the age of eight, I remember making a conscience decision to accept His salvation through faith. I remember my fear of my sin and hell, desiring His love, of wanting a Father. I remember choosing Him. But I have come to realize that these desires for Him were not of myself but of His Spirit through me. I had no say in the matter.
    Then how do I marriage the two facts that I consciously chose Him but also knowing that it is only God that would give me the desire to chose Him to begin with?


    I don’t know. Any you know what? I am ok with that. I trust God that He knows how it works and that gives me peace. Confusion is not always a bad thing. Sometimes you just have to lay it at the feet of Jesus and say, “Lord, You know.”
    There is song that I have found by a Christian rapper named Shai Linne called “Election”. I highly recommend you give it a listen as it explains Election/Predestination quite well. I know you might have heard how free will is like someone who is floating out at sea and salvation is God throwing a rope at us and all we have to do is grab it. There is a part of this song that explains how flawed that line of thinking is:


    “Some people say that we were drowning in the ocean
    Barely floating until God threw us the rope then
    Our free will helped us as we groped
    Our faith is the hand that grabbed the rope and God put us back in the boat
    Nope! Without apology I deny that analogy
    Reality- we were dead at the bottom of the sea
    I was a swollen corpse with hope no more
    Until Jehovah the LORD dove from the shore to the ocean floor
    Yeah, I was a corpse and I smelled like it
    I’ll keep it simple, why did God choose me? Because He felt like it!
    He brought me out, not an act of my volition
    Breathed life into my lungs and didn’t ask for my permission”


    I was a corpse at the bottom of the ocean. I could not grab that rope nor would I ever want to even if I could.


    Honestly, I so glad that I had no say in my salvation. How awful would it be that God had to depend on our choice? That is like stripping power out of God’s hands and placing it in ours. Knowing how utterly sinful and disgusting I am, I am so thankful that it could only be by the grace of God that I could ever be saved. Depending on myself to accomplish any type of good is horrifying because I know that I am not capable of producing any good at all outside of Christ.


    Lord Jesus, thank You!


    I apologize for this being so long haha. It was just on my heart all morning as I was cleaning the house.
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    Ashlee
    Struggling to be like Jesus.

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    Senior Member stonesoffire's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why I now believe in Predistination/Election

    Good post.

    My understanding of foreknowledge is that God is outside of time. He sees the end of all things from the beginning.
    damombomb, 20, Marcelo and 2 others like this.
    Jeepers Creepers...we gotta get new peepers.

    Mat 6:22 The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light.

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    Senior Member Ash_JFF's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why I now believe in Predistination/Election

    Quote Originally Posted by stonesoffire View Post
    Good post.

    My understanding of foreknowledge is that God is outside of time. He sees the end of all things from the beginning.
    I agree. Sometimes when I read a Christian biography, I like to pray for the person I am reading about because I know God would know about my prayer before the person in biography was even born.

    I know, I'm a little weird haha
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    Ashlee
    Struggling to be like Jesus.

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    Default Re: Why I now believe in Predistination/Election

    Quote Originally Posted by Ash_JFF View Post
    Honestly, I so glad that I had no say in my salvation. How awful would it be that God had to depend on our choice?
    First, thanks for sharing. Second, how awful would it be if God chose not to "elect" many to salvation, but "elected" others. You stated that none is capable of doing good. That's true. We are not capable of doing anything good to win God's favour. Believing in the gospel of Jesus Christ because one understands his lost state, is not doing anything good, but trusting in the One who is good.
    Roughsoul1991 likes this.

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    Senior Member preacher4truth's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why I now believe in Predistination/Election

    Quote Originally Posted by Ash_JFF View Post
    I have not been on this chat in 3 years but I felt heavily compelled in my heart to write this today.


    I have always struggled to make sense of the predestination verses. (Romans 8: 29-30, Matthew 11:27, Psalm 65:4, Romans 9, etc.) To make sense of it I tried to think that God chose people to be saved based of knowing the future and seeing people choosing Him, hence the “foreknowing” but now I know how flawed that way of thinking is. In regards to free will I used to think how God made the way of salvation clear and just waited for us to accept like a gift. I now know how flawed that way of thinking is as well.


    Yes, these predestination verses helped me to better understand but I still fought against it because I didn’t want to believe that God would choose some and not others. Ultimately I wanted to believe that I had a choice. How selfish and prideful I was to think that way.


    It was not a verse about predestination that opened the door to the truth but actually verses about our utter depravity of sin:
    Psalm 53:2-3
    God looks down from heaven
    on all mankind
    to see if there are any who understand,
    any who seek God.
    Everyone has turned away, all have become corrupt;
    there is no one who does good,
    not even one.



    I have read these verses before but about 1-2 years ago these verses really hit home to how sinful I really am. We always want to find some kind of good in us, some kind of tiny little ray of light (even if it’s the act of choosing God) and to show God saying, “Look, I did this! I chose You!”


    Ultimately that is pride. It is us trying to believe that we are capable of goodness outside of Christ. In reality that is not possible. Even as Christians we are filled with sin: our actions, out thoughts, even our prayers are tainted with sin. There is no escape, no explaining away, and no changing it. We are filled with sin at all times.


    In addition, because we are always filled with sin, our base nature is to reject anything that is of Christ. We were born into rebellion and live on in ultimate rebellion before becoming a Christian. It is impossible for anything in us to choose the salvation of Christ. No matter how free, wonderful, loving etc…..it is impossible. Our sin nature would never allow it. Evil would never choose its destruction which is Christ.


    That is how I finally realized that predestination makes sense. Because it is literally the ONLY way that I would ever “choose” salvation. It is the Spirit of God that has given me the desire for Jesus, and it is His Spirit that has given me the power to “choose” Him.


    Yes, at the age of eight, I remember making a conscience decision to accept His salvation through faith. I remember my fear of my sin and hell, desiring His love, of wanting a Father. I remember choosing Him. But I have come to realize that these desires for Him were not of myself but of His Spirit through me. I had no say in the matter.
    Then how do I marriage the two facts that I consciously chose Him but also knowing that it is only God that would give me the desire to chose Him to begin with?


    I don’t know. Any you know what? I am ok with that. I trust God that He knows how it works and that gives me peace. Confusion is not always a bad thing. Sometimes you just have to lay it at the feet of Jesus and say, “Lord, You know.”
    There is song that I have found by a Christian rapper named Shai Linne called “Election”. I highly recommend you give it a listen as it explains Election/Predestination quite well. I know you might have heard how free will is like someone who is floating out at sea and salvation is God throwing a rope at us and all we have to do is grab it. There is a part of this song that explains how flawed that line of thinking is:


    “Some people say that we were drowning in the ocean
    Barely floating until God threw us the rope then
    Our free will helped us as we groped
    Our faith is the hand that grabbed the rope and God put us back in the boat
    Nope! Without apology I deny that analogy
    Reality- we were dead at the bottom of the sea
    I was a swollen corpse with hope no more
    Until Jehovah the LORD dove from the shore to the ocean floor
    Yeah, I was a corpse and I smelled like it
    I’ll keep it simple, why did God choose me? Because He felt like it!
    He brought me out, not an act of my volition
    Breathed life into my lungs and didn’t ask for my permission”


    I was a corpse at the bottom of the ocean. I could not grab that rope nor would I ever want to even if I could.


    Honestly, I so glad that I had no say in my salvation. How awful would it be that God had to depend on our choice? That is like stripping power out of God’s hands and placing it in ours. Knowing how utterly sinful and disgusting I am, I am so thankful that it could only be by the grace of God that I could ever be saved. Depending on myself to accomplish any type of good is horrifying because I know that I am not capable of producing any good at all outside of Christ.


    Lord Jesus, thank You!


    I apologize for this being so long haha. It was just on my heart all morning as I was cleaning the house.
    Amen!!!!! Like someone said to me, there is no way a person cannot come to this conclusion, reading Scripture, or, they'll spend their lives fighting against it.
    People are offended that God is God.

    Oh, my brethren! bold-hearted men are always called mean-spirited by cowards. - Charles Spurgeon

    I threw out the writings of Moses because he killed that Egyptian guy.

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    Senior Member Ash_JFF's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why I now believe in Predistination/Election

    Quote Originally Posted by John146 View Post
    First, thanks for sharing. Second, how awful would it be if God chose not to "elect" many to salvation, but "elected" others. You stated that none is capable of doing good. That's true. We are not capable of doing anything good to win God's favour. Believing in the gospel of Jesus Christ because one understands his lost state, is not doing anything good, but trusting in the One who is good.
    I understand where you are coming from but I have to disagree. Our sinful nature would never want us to believe that we are lost. It would never want to show us that it is anything bad. It is the Holy Spirit that gives us that knowledge. It is only Him that reveals the utter depravity of the our sinful nature and shows us that we are lost.

    We would never know that we are lost if the Spirit did not give us that understanding to begin with. Why He chose to give a person that understanding is not based on anything that person has done but by the grace of God alone. He just felt like giving that knowledge to whomever He chose to give it to.
    Ashlee
    Struggling to be like Jesus.

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    Senior Member preacher4truth's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why I now believe in Predistination/Election

    In Matthew 11:25-30 Jesus reveals Himself to whom He wills, they become aware of their heavy burden, and He bids them to come to Him, they find rest and they take upon themselves His yoke. This revelation and calling does not happen to each and every person who has lived, but, especially in America, people will call this "unfair". This is the Romans 9:20 man.
    Ash_JFF and SovereignGrace like this.
    People are offended that God is God.

    Oh, my brethren! bold-hearted men are always called mean-spirited by cowards. - Charles Spurgeon

    I threw out the writings of Moses because he killed that Egyptian guy.

  8. #8
    Senior Member Ash_JFF's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why I now believe in Predistination/Election

    Quote Originally Posted by preacher4truth View Post
    In Matthew 11:25-30 Jesus reveals Himself to whom He wills, they become aware of their heavy burden, and He bids them to come to Him, they find rest and they take upon themselves His yoke. This revelation and calling does not happen to each and every person who has lived, but, especially in America, people will call this "unfair". This is the Romans 9:20 man.
    True. I think it's human nature to think its unfair when in reality it is not.
    Ashlee
    Struggling to be like Jesus.

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    Senior Member Johnny_B's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why I now believe in Predistination/Election

    Amen!!! the boasting of faith over Gods sovereign grace is all around. I think I've heard that rapper before. Doesn't he mention John MacAurthor, R. C. Spourl and other that teach about Biblical election?

    Knowing the weight of your sin is what sets us free and "who the Son set free, is free indeed" We are slaves to sin, it has us under bondage, salves can't set themselves free. I listened to a
    video yesterday with a guy talking bad about those that believe in Biblical election, so I wrote a comment with Scripture. He called me a devil and that I was going to hell, I replied, then he called me stupid and banned me from posting on his channel.

    The pride of wanting to take credit for your own salvation is all about boasting and works.
    God Bless Sister you are in for some beautiful Bible reading/studying, you will be surprised how the word is going to make lots more sense to you and you'll see God's grace through over the Bible, it's a beautiful thing, you will be blessed when reading the word. I'm always seeing something different in His word now.

    Again God Bless Sister
    John 6:63, 65 "It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh is no help at all. The words that I have spoken to you are spirit and life....65 And he said, “This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless it is granted him by the Father.”

    I Corinthians 4:7 "For who sees anything different in you? What do you have that you did not receive? If then you received it, why do you boast as if you did not receive it?"

    Born in the Spirit & word, granted by the Father. EE-TEOW




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    Default Re: Why I now believe in Predistination/Election

    All the predestined who call on the name of the Lord shall be saved?

  11. #11
    LanceA
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    Default Re: Why I now believe in Predistination/Election

    I really don't get into the predestination/election debate but I will chime in here. So my biggest issue with the above mentioned is, if we are already elected by God why in the world would anyone want to go out and evangelize? Why should I teach my son about God? Why would I pray for someone's salvation?

    If everyone is already hand picked then there is no need for me to pray for anyone to come to Christ. Maybe it is a simplified view on my part but it is how I see it.

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    Default Re: Why I now believe in Predistination/Election

    by grace you are saved if predestined, it’s the gift of God?

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    Default Re: Why I now believe in Predistination/Election

    This op reminded me of the struggle I had some years ago now with this. And with the phrase "choose for Christ." And with the whole concept of: I chose wisely and so I get to go to heaven, and you chose unwisely and so you will go to hell. I chose to believe and you choose not to. The alternative to believing all that is to feel some pretty deep sorrow over why He would heal my blindness but not someone elses (including people who were always just naturally nicer and kinder than myself). So I gave up thinking about it and just...trusted Him to always do what was right and good concerning everyone. I just ended with one thought and have stayed there ever since - He is not willing that any man perish but wants all to come to repentance.
    It's the most I can handle.
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  14. #14
    popeye
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    Default Re: Why I now believe in Predistination/Election

    In the parable of the wedding guests the chosen ones refused to come.

    Oooops

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    Default Re: Why I now believe in Predistination/Election

    I like this 6 minute video explanation of predestination and the "elect". It is I line with the gospel message of John 3:16. God so loved the "world" that whoever believes in Him has eternal life.

    Whosoever calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.


    JGIG, LanceA and joaniemarie like this.
    The new man in Christ - the new creation that is created in righteousness and

    holiness hears the heart voice of the Spirit and not an old head noise of the letter

    of the word. The Pharisees knew "bible knowledge" but they did not

    know God's heart and so they erred in really understanding what the

    scriptures were saying.


    The Lord wants us to look through His eyes and to live from His heart towards

    people, towards Him and towards ourselves as well.

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    Senior Member preacher4truth's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why I now believe in Predistination/Election

    Quote Originally Posted by popeye View Post
    In the parable of the wedding guests the chosen ones refused to come.

    Oooops
    No ooooops excepting in your presumption.

    And? "Many are invited, but few are chosen" ends that parable.
    Last edited by preacher4truth; April 16th, 2017 at 06:13 PM.
    posthuman and SovereignGrace like this.
    People are offended that God is God.

    Oh, my brethren! bold-hearted men are always called mean-spirited by cowards. - Charles Spurgeon

    I threw out the writings of Moses because he killed that Egyptian guy.

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    Senior Member preacher4truth's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why I now believe in Predistination/Election

    Quote Originally Posted by LanceA View Post
    I really don't get into the predestination/election debate but I will chime in here. So my biggest issue with the above mentioned is, if we are already elected by God why in the world would anyone want to go out and evangelize? Why should I teach my son about God? Why would I pray for someone's salvation?

    If everyone is already hand picked then there is no need for me to pray for anyone to come to Christ. Maybe it is a simplified view on my part but it is how I see it.

    This right here:

    Remember Jesus Christ, risen from the dead, the offspring of David, as preached in my gospel, for which I am suffering, bound with chains as a criminal. But the word of God is not bound! Therefore I endure everything for the sake of the elect, that they also may obtain the salvation that is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory. -- 2 Timothy 2:8-10

    THAT is why we evangelize, the elect are out there and we do not know who they are. Consider also Acts 18:10.
    SovereignGrace likes this.
    People are offended that God is God.

    Oh, my brethren! bold-hearted men are always called mean-spirited by cowards. - Charles Spurgeon

    I threw out the writings of Moses because he killed that Egyptian guy.

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    Default Re: Why I now believe in Predistination/Election

    I think it's about to Greek up in here...
    Stunnedbygrace likes this.

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    Default Re: Why I now believe in Predistination/Election

    What is foreknowledge if it is not omniscient foresight?
    Stunnedbygrace likes this.

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    Default Re: Why I now believe in Predistination/Election

    Quote Originally Posted by Sully View Post
    What is foreknowledge if it is not omniscient foresight?
    That is another thing that occurred to me during my struggle. I thought: well, if something God says is just sounding crazy to me, I think I am forgetting some attribute that is His and thinking of Him as more human.
    Depleted and Sully like this.

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