We Have Forgotten The Way Is Jesus!

[mailmandan]

All these scriptures are absolutely true if we are 'blessed enough to follow the REAL Jesus ! but woe betide you if you follow the impersonator He warned us of and who keeps not His law/commandments - because you will hear the fatal words ' I never knew you, depart from me you that work iniquity.

Do not be deceived - not everyone who preaches Jesus speaks the truth ! Mat 24v4,5. 7v21-23.

In regards to Matthew 7:21-23, I'll never forget, prior to my conversion several years ago, while still attending the Roman Catholic church, I read Matthew 7:22 and thought to myself, wow! These many people accomplished all of that, "prophesied in His name, cast out demons, and did many wonderful works" but that still was not "good enough?" Then I thought to myself at that time, how am I going to "top that" and be "good enough?" Such is the mindset of someone who believes that salvation is by works.

Matthew 7:21 - Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter.

John 6:40 - For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in Him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.

These many people (unbelievers) in Matthew 7:22 had the wrong foundation. They were trusting in their works to save them and NOT IN CHRIST ALONE. Jesus NEVER knew them which means they were NEVER saved. Their hearts were not right with God, so their attempted external obedience was stained with sin. *Seeking salvation by works is not the will of the Father.

John 17:3 - And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent. The term "know" implies intimate, experiential knowledge, through a relationship with Him, not merely theoretical knowledge. These many people were not true converts.

Without faith it's impossible to please God no matter how many alleged wonderful works that these many people set out to conjure up through the flesh. This is why Jesus referred to them as WORKERS OF INIQUITY/LAWLESSNESS! They were self righteous.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

All these scriptures are absolutely true if we are 'blessed enough to follow the REAL Jesus ! but woe betide you if you follow the impersonator He warned us of and who keeps not His law/commandments - because you will hear the fatal words ' I never knew you, depart from me you that work iniquity.

Do not be deceived - not everyone who preaches Jesus speaks the truth ! Mat 24v4,5. 7v21-23.

Who can be perfect but God? Who can live up to his standard? If no one in the old testament could Why do you think you can?

Gods standard is set in stone, You are obligated to follow every word, and be judged for one failure. OT ==r stand on the blood of Christ and Gods grace..

There is no other option.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

That is YOUR judgement and interpretation....and condemnation ! learn to differentiate between holy and unholy.

Then please explain why God said he NEVER KNEW THEM?

How could someone be adopted into Gods family, Made his precious child. Have a personal relationship with God. Then fall away, and in the end have that same God tell them HE NEVER KNEW THEM.

That's makes God out got be a liar.

No my friend, You need to learn to differentiate between Gods holy standard. And your standard. Which falls well short of Gods.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

In regards to Matthew 7:21-23, I'll never forget, prior to my conversion several years ago, while still attending the Roman Catholic church, I read Matthew 7:22 and thought to myself, wow! These many people accomplished all of that, "prophesied in His name, cast out demons, and did many wonderful works" but that still was not "good enough?" Then I thought to myself at that time, how am I going to "top that" and be "good enough?" Such is the mindset of someone who believes that salvation is by works.

Matthew 7:21 - Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter.

John 6:40 - For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in Him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.

These many people (unbelievers) in Matthew 7:22 had the wrong foundation. They were trusting in their works to save them and NOT IN CHRIST ALONE. Jesus NEVER knew them which means they were NEVER saved. Their hearts were not right with God, so their attempted external obedience was stained with sin. *Seeking salvation by works is not the will of the Father.

John 17:3 - And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent. The term "know" implies intimate, experiential knowledge, through a relationship with Him, not merely theoretical knowledge. These many people were not true converts.

Without faith it's impossible to please God no matter how many alleged wonderful works that these many people set out to conjure up through the flesh. This is why Jesus referred to them as WORKERS OF INIQUITY/LAWLESSNESS! They were self righteous.

As Jesus said in John 6. "it is the work of God we believe in the one he sent"

and what do those who believe (trust God) get?

1. Never hunger never thirst, Live forever, Never die, Have in their possession eternal life, and a promise to be raised on thge last day.

Even peter understood. When Jesus asked them, Where can we Go, YOU (JESUS) HAVE THE WORDS OF ETERNAL LIFE, It is most definitely the4 spirit which Goves life, and the words of God are spirit, and they are life.

Our works are bloody filthy rags,, Yet so many people want to give them to God as if God will say, .Thank you. You get in.. welcome to heaven..

NOT!!!!

 

[beta]

Are you saying He can't be found while in the park on a sabbath?

No I am not saying that....it all depends what you are doing in the park on the sabbath. We know that Paul and his company resorted to the 'outdoors Acts 16v13...

 

[mailmandan]

[SUP]16 [/SUP]And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
[SUP]17 [/SUP]And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,
[SUP]19 [/SUP]Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
[SUP]20 [/SUP]The young man saith unto him, All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet?
[SUP]21 [/SUP]Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.
[SUP]22 [/SUP]But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful: for he had great possessions. Matthew 19:16-22

Jesus wanted to impress on this man both the high standard required by God and the absolute futility of seeking salvation by his own merit. This should have elicited a response about his failure, but instead the young man confidently (and self righteously) declared that he qualified for heaven under those terms (vs. 20). This young man missed the point that Jesus was making, failed to place his faith in Jesus for salvation, and continued to trust in his riches (vs. 21-23). His face fell and he went away sad because he could never part with his great wealth, not even in exchange for eternal life.

If keeping the commandments is the basis by which we receive eternal life, then why isn't this remark the pattern for all discussions concerning eternal life? What did Jesus say in John 3:15,16,18; 5:24; 6:29,40,47; 11:25,26?

Paul would have said to the jailer who asked, "what must I do to be saved?" by replying; keep the commandments, yet that's not what Paul said. Instead, he said - "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved.." Jesus knows the hearts of all men right? Jesus responds to each individual a little differently because He knows where their need is. He didn't respond to the woman at the well, or Nicodemus or this person the same way did He? Yet the consistent pattern in scripture is salvation through faith, not works.

 

[beta]

Who can be perfect but God? Who can live up to his standard? If no one in the old testament could Why do you think you can?

Gods standard is set in stone, You are obligated to follow every word, and be judged for one failure. OT ==r stand on the blood of Christ and Gods grace..

There is no other option.

The reason we can do better than people in the OT is because WE have the Spirit/Power of God to help us !
No, I am not obligated to follow OT practices - I now trust in Christ and follow HIM - starting as a Disciple having my heart turned to flesh. We agree on much, there is no need to fight, just clarify some points.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

The reason we can do better than people in the OT is because WE have the Spirit/Power of God to help us !

You still can not be perfect and meet Gods standard.. And many people were even in the OY to be holy and righteous (see Noah and Abraham as two examples) shop it was not impossible for them to be upright people.. Buty they still fell short of Gods glory, as we all do..

No, I am not obligated to follow OT practices - I now trust in Christ and follow HIM - starting as a Disciple having my heart turned to flesh. We agree on much, there is no need to fight, just clarify some points.

I never said you were. I am sorry if you misunderstood me.

What I am saying is, the the requirement of obedience required to save yourself is still in action today.. As Paul said, it is our schoolmaster, to lead us to Christ.. If a person has has not been led by the law to become the tax collector who fell on their knees, because they KNOW they are a sinful person who can not live up to Gods standard. And they REQUIRE and want his salvation. Then they are still condemned by that law. Whoever they are.. That was Pauls point in Galatians.

Yes, we have to start with Christ,, and start as a disciple. But that is a lifetime commitment, and even then, we will not meet Gods standard of perfection required to make it to heaven APART from grace.

That was my point.. I hope you understand better what I was trying to say,

 

[beta]

Then please explain why God said he NEVER KNEW THEM?

How could someone be adopted into Gods family, Made his precious child. Have a personal relationship with God. Then fall away, and in the end have that same God tell them HE NEVER KNEW THEM.

That's makes God out got be a liar.

No my friend, You need to learn to differentiate between Gods holy standard. And your standard. Which falls well short of Gods.

I think you are taking too big a leap....who says these lawless people were already adopted and made God's precious child - then told to depart ? Scripture says He NEVER knew them....they never walked with Him.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I think you are taking too big a leap....who says these lawless people were already adopted and made God's precious child - then told to depart ? Scripture says He NEVER knew them....they never walked with Him.

Then I am confused.. How then can this passage be used to prove salvation can be lost. Or how are you using it.

You said people must obey, and then used this verse to prove your point. How did you mean it?

 

[sevenseas]

Ben starts a thread about Jesus. Jesus is the only way to God.

you come along and and want to talk about God kicking people away

Do YOU know Jesus?

if you do, maybe you can share Him instead of this Sabbath day idol thing

 

[BeyondET]

No I am not saying that....it all depends what you are doing in the park on the sabbath. We know that Paul and his company resorted to the 'outdoors Acts 16v13...

I can agree with that, what I'm saying is He reaches people when they are far from any other people of faith or churches etc. Lost in the wilderness in complete darkness drowning in their problems far from walking on the path... before a person knows of salvation they don't know thus become aware... people you may think are these personators can be just the person God uses. He can use the weak to lead the strong as well.

 

[beta]

You still can not be perfect and meet Gods standard.. And many people were even in the OY to be holy and righteous (see Noah and Abraham as two examples) shop it was not impossible for them to be upright people.. Buty they still fell short of Gods glory, as we all do..


I never said you were. I am sorry if you misunderstood me.

What I am saying is, the the requirement of obedience required to save yourself is still in action today.. As Paul said, it is our schoolmaster, to lead us to Christ.. If a person has has not been led by the law to become the tax collector who fell on their knees, because they KNOW they are a sinful person who can not live up to Gods standard. And they REQUIRE and want his salvation. Then they are still condemned by that law. Whoever they are.. That was Pauls point in Galatians.

Yes, we have to start with Christ,, and start as a disciple. But that is a lifetime commitment, and even then, we will not meet Gods standard of perfection required to make it to heaven APART from grace.

That was my point.. I hope you understand better what I was trying to say,

I agree....apart from Christ we have nothing...apart from grace we have nothing...but to DO God's Will requires some action from us ...wouldn't you say ? It is not sin or selfrighteousness to do the Will of God for they are the 'good works we are created in Christ Jesus to do - these will make/create the new man/being when he is perfected.
So, are we any closer in understanding each other ?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I agree....apart from Christ we have nothing...apart from grace we have nothing...but to DO God's Will requires some action from us ...wouldn't you say ?

Yeah, But that will not SAVE you will it? And God said it is not hard work..

It is not sin or selfrighteousness to do the Will of God for they are the 'good works we are created in Christ Jesus to do - these will make/create the new man/being when he is perfected.

True, But will this get you saved, or allow you to keep your salvation?

So, are we any closer in understanding each other ?

I am not sure,, Eph 2: 10 I think talkie about sanctification.. Which God does to all his children. As the author of Hebrews says, By one sacrifice he has perfected forever, those who are in the process of being sanctified. And God says he who begun a good work, Will continue it until the day of Christ.

Do you agree, it is not these works which save us, But works which ALL Gods children will do (in varying degrees since people mature differently, and some may never mature but remain babes in Christ)

 

[beta]

I can agree with that, what I'm saying is He reaches people when they are far from any other people of faith or churches etc. Lost in the wilderness in complete darkness drowning in their problems far from walking on the path... before a person knows of salvation they don't know thus become aware... people you may think are these personators can be just the person God uses. He can use the weak to lead the strong as well.

I am talking more of ' false teachers and preachers who mislead people to follow them rather than the ignorant who go about their own business. Yes, God can use them !

 

[beta]

Ben starts a thread about Jesus. Jesus is the only way to God.

you come along and and want to talk about God kicking people away

Do YOU know Jesus?

if you do, maybe you can share Him instead of this Sabbath day idol thing

If you consider what is holy to God an idol maybe you don't know Him all that well....why don't you tell HIM what you think of HIS holy day ?

 

[BeyondET]

I am talking more of ' false teachers and preachers who mislead people to follow them rather than the ignorant who go about their own business. Yes, God can use them !

Well than I can agree with the false teachers and preachers no doubt their out there, mostly are lead by greed power fame etc..

I apologize if I had mistaken you view on just where Jesus goes to reach people, I assume know you do believe He reaches and talks with folks, far from churches, synagogues and the like.

 

[beta]

Then I am confused.. How then can this passage be used to prove salvation can be lost. Or how are you using it.

You said people must obey, and then used this verse to prove your point. How did you mean it?

We were not talking about salvation in particular, were we ? just whether or not we walk in God's commandments. Jesus summed them up into two, but basically they are the same as the 10 = love God and love neighbour . As far as I know these are the only law pertaining to Christians and transgressing any is sin 1Joh 3v4.
Let's put that one right before leaping ahead to salvation and sanctification etc..etc.
So I'll ask again...do we walk with Jesus 24/7 or not ?

 

[Grace777x70]

Well than I can agree with the false teachers and preachers no doubt their out there, mostly are lead by greed power fame etc..

I apologize if I had mistaken you view on just where Jesus goes to reach people, I assume know you do believe He reaches and talks with folks, far from churches, synagogues and the like.

"Herein lies the rub" - She is trying to tell us "non-walkers with Jesus" - that because we don't keep the Sabbath day on Saturday as in the law of Moses - we are not obeying God nor really walking with Him. Unfortunately that's the reality of this false doctrine that she is trying to get across in her original post.

Jesus is our true Sabbath rest and not resting in His works is what is violating the true Sabbath which is Christ Himself.

People are free to observe any day as they wish - but when they say you are not obeying God nor following Jesus because you don't keep the sabbath day as in the law of Moses. - That is a Judaizer doctrine that denies the work of Christ Himself.

All of the law and the prophets are a mere shadow of what was to come - Christ Himself is the real substance that has already come for us who believe.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

We were not talking about salvation in particular, were we ?

Sorry, I thought we were. Please forgive me if I confused you.

just whether or not we walk in God's commandments. Jesus summed them up into two, but basically they are the same as the 10 = love God and love neighbour . As far as I know these are the only law pertaining to Christians and transgressing any is sin 1Joh 3v4.
Let's put that one right before leaping ahead to salvation and sanctification etc..etc.
So I'll ask again...do we walk with Jesus 24/7 or not ?

If we do. Then we would be perfect would we not? (For if we committed on sin in that 24 hour period. We did not walk 24/7)

I am not saying or defending a person can become born again and live like he did.. or continue in sin,, I for one do not think that is even possible.

And I think we have to talk about salvation first.. If we have the salvation part wrong. Would not what happens next not matter?