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Thread: Why Christ Didn't Stay Dead

  1. #1
    Senior Member WebersHome's Avatar
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    Post Why Christ Didn't Stay Dead

    -
    None of the Old Testament's sacrifices were restored to life, and in point of
    fact, quite a few of them were incinerated. Pieces and parts of some were
    even set aside to be eaten as sustenance for the Levitical priests and their
    families.

    So, if the OT's sacrifices could obtain the mercy of God without bringing
    them back to life, why then wouldn't a dead Jesus be just as effective as a
    living Jesus?

    The problem with previous stay-dead modes of sacrifice is that they couldn't
    expunge the people's personnel files; and those files are on track to be
    reviewed at the great white throne event depicted at Rev 20:11-15 where
    people will be thoroughly vetted for citizenship in the new cosmos depicted
    in the 21st chapter of Revelation.

    If the records show that certain people are essentially undesirable --i.e.
    capable of terrible things, especially dishonesty --then they will be denied
    immigration to the new heavens, the new earth, and the holy city.

    Christ's crucified body was restored to life in order to make it possible for
    God to expunge people's records.

    Rom 4:25 . . He was handed over for our transgressions, and was raised
    for our justification.

    The koiné Greek word for "justification" is dikaioo (dik-ah-yo'-o) which
    essentially means to regard as innocent.

    In other words; Christ's crucifixion was sufficient to obtain forgiveness for
    people's sins; but his crucifixion alone wasn't sufficient to make it possible
    for people to obtain an acquittal.

    An acquittal can be defined as exoneration; viz: an adjudication of
    innocence, which is normally granted when there is insufficient evidence to
    convict. In other words: by means of Christ's resurrection, God was able to
    cook the books so that it appears people never did anything bad. On the
    surface; this looks very unethical, but from God's perspective it's all on the
    up and up.

    This is a serious issue under the terms and conditions of the covenant that
    Yhvh's people agreed upon with God as per Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, and
    Deuteronomy. The covenant's sacrifices obtained forgiveness for the people,
    but the sacrifices did not, and could not, obtain them exoneration. No, a
    record of their disobedience remained on the books, hanging over their
    heads like a sword of Damocles. Out ahead, at the Great White Throne event
    depicted at Rev 20:11-15, those books will be opened for review.

    Q: Don't Catholics obtain exoneration when they go to confession?

    A: The scope of the Roman church's reconciliatory process is somewhat
    limited. It's primarily designed for absolution (1John 1:9) i.e. while it
    forgives a sinner's debt to God's law, and cleanses what is sometimes called
    the stain of sin, it does nothing to expunge the sinner's record.

    Justification, on the other hand, as per the koiné Greek word dikaioo,
    completely deletes the offender's criminal history; i.e. dikaioo wipes their
    records so clean and efficiently that there is nothing left that can in any way
    be used to prove that the sinner has ever been anything less than 100%
    innocent.

    Now, the advantage of the kind of justification I'm talking about is that
    sinners need obtain it only once because from thence, God stops keeping
    records on them.

    2Cor 5:19 . .God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not
    counting their trespasses against them

    The koiné Greek word translated "counting" is logizomai (log-id'-zom-ahee)
    which means to take an inventory.

    Rom 4:8 . . Blessed is the man whose sin the Lord does not record.

    /
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  2. #2
    Senior Member FreeNChrist's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why Christ Didn't Stay Dead


    "I will not say much more to you, for the prince of this world is coming.
    He has no hold over Me" John 14:30

    "But God raised Him from the dead, freeing Him from the agony of death, because it was impossible for death to keep its hold on Him." Acts 2:24



    “How foolish can you be? After starting your new lives in the Spirit, why are you now trying to become perfect by your own human effort?”
    Gal 3:3



  3. #3
    Senior Member BeyondET's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why Christ Didn't Stay Dead

    Was He Dead?, I thought the vessel was just merely resting for the return.

  4. #4
    Senior Member WebersHome's Avatar
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    Post Re: Why Christ Didn't Stay Dead

    -
    Quote Originally Posted by BeyondET View Post
    Was He Dead?
    Jesus was quite deceased.

    John 19:31-35 . .Now it was the day of Preparation, and the next day was
    to be a special Sabbath. Because the Jews did not want the bodies left on
    the crosses during the Sabbath, they asked Pilate to have the legs broken
    and the bodies taken down. The soldiers therefore came and broke the legs
    of the first man who had been crucified with Jesus, and then those of the
    other.

    . . . But when they came to Jesus and found that he was already dead, they
    did not break his legs. Instead, one of the soldiers pierced Jesus' side with a
    spear, bringing a sudden flow of blood and water. The man who saw it has
    given testimony, and his testimony is true. He knows that he tells the truth,
    and he testifies so that you also may believe.

    Since Jesus was somewhat elevated, (it is not said exactly how high) the
    spear point would have entered his body at an upward angle. The text does
    not say which side was stabbed, but from John's description, and judging
    from the intent of the soldier to leave no doubt about Jesus' death, the heart
    side was very likely the side they cut into and the spear point entered just
    under his rib cage.

    The heart is surrounded by a membrane called the pericardium. This
    membrane contains a serous matter or liquor resembling water, which
    prevents the surface of the heart from becoming dry by its continual motion.
    It was very likely this which was pierced and from which the *water* flowed.
    The point of the spear also seems to have reached one of the ventricles of
    the heart, and the blood, yet warm, rushed forth, either mingled with or
    followed by the liquor of the pericardium, so as to appear to John to be
    blood and water flowing together. Though not medically accurate in our day,
    John's calling the serous fluid "water" was accurate enough in his own day.

    The Romans themselves certified Christ's demise.

    Mark 15:43-45 . .Joseph of Arimathea, a prominent member of the
    Council, who was himself waiting for the kingdom of God, went boldly to
    Pilate and asked for Jesus' body. Pilate was surprised to hear that he was
    already dead. Summoning the centurion, he asked him if Jesus had already
    died. When he learned from the centurion that it was so, he gave the body
    to Joseph.

    Even if Jesus had somehow managed to survive the crucifixion, he would
    certainly have died from suffocation later during the preparation of his body
    for burial. They first cocooned him with a paste made from a mixture of myrrh
    and aloes; and not just a thin film of it, but seventy-five pounds of it. Then
    put a towel over his face and secured it by wrapping his head with strips of
    cloth. Then they wound his entire body with the same materials; and then
    wrapped him all up like a burrito in a large linen sheet.

    /
    BeyondET and TraySir like this.

  5. #5
    Senior Member Miri's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why Christ Didn't Stay Dead

    A better question, why did Adam and Eve die?

    The answer in reverse is the answer to the original question.
    He is God and
    we are not.

  6. #6
    Senior Member BeyondET's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why Christ Didn't Stay Dead

    Quote Originally Posted by WebersHome View Post
    -


    Jesus was quite deceased.

    John 19:31-35 . .Now it was the day of Preparation, and the next day was
    to be a special Sabbath. Because the Jews did not want the bodies left on
    the crosses during the Sabbath, they asked Pilate to have the legs broken
    and the bodies taken down. The soldiers therefore came and broke the legs
    of the first man who had been crucified with Jesus, and then those of the
    other.

    . . . But when they came to Jesus and found that he was already dead, they
    did not break his legs. Instead, one of the soldiers pierced Jesus' side with a
    spear, bringing a sudden flow of blood and water. The man who saw it has
    given testimony, and his testimony is true. He knows that he tells the truth,
    and he testifies so that you also may believe.

    Since Jesus was somewhat elevated, (it is not said exactly how high) the
    spear point would have entered his body at an upward angle. The text does
    not say which side was stabbed, but from John's description, and judging
    from the intent of the soldier to leave no doubt about Jesus' death, the heart
    side was very likely the side they cut into and the spear point entered just
    under his rib cage.

    The heart is surrounded by a membrane called the pericardium. This
    membrane contains a serous matter or liquor resembling water, which
    prevents the surface of the heart from becoming dry by its continual motion.
    It was very likely this which was pierced and from which the *water* flowed.
    The point of the spear also seems to have reached one of the ventricles of
    the heart, and the blood, yet warm, rushed forth, either mingled with or
    followed by the liquor of the pericardium, so as to appear to John to be
    blood and water flowing together. Though not medically accurate in our day,
    John's calling the serous fluid "water" was accurate enough in his own day.

    The Romans themselves certified Christ's demise.

    Mark 15:43-45 . .Joseph of Arimathea, a prominent member of the
    Council, who was himself waiting for the kingdom of God, went boldly to
    Pilate and asked for Jesus' body. Pilate was surprised to hear that he was
    already dead. Summoning the centurion, he asked him if Jesus had already
    died. When he learned from the centurion that it was so, he gave the body
    to Joseph.

    Even if Jesus had somehow managed to survive the crucifixion, he would
    certainly have died from suffocation later during the preparation of his body
    for burial. They first cocooned him with a paste made from a mixture of myrrh
    and aloes; and not just a thin film of it, but seventy-five pounds of it. Then
    put a towel over his face and secured it by wrapping his head with strips of
    cloth. Then they wound his entire body with the same materials; and then
    wrapped him all up like a burrito in a large linen sheet.

    /
    I can have a odd sense of humor lol,,, yes I agree Jesus physical body was lifeless. Though IMO Jesus wasn't lifeless just separated for awhile.

  7. #7
    Senior Member WebersHome's Avatar
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    Post Re: Why Christ Didn't Stay Dead

    -
    Jonah was in the belly of a fish for three days and three nights.

    "But the Lord provided a great fish to swallow Jonah, and Jonah was inside
    the fish three days and three nights." (Jonah 1:17)

    Q: Was Jonah alive in the fish?

    A: Yes (Jonah 2:1).

    Q: The whole time?

    A: No.

    At some point in Jonah's nautical adventure he went to a place called sheol
    (Jonah 2:2) which he sited at the bottoms of the mountains. (Jonah 2:6)

    The bottoms of the mountains aren't located in the tummies of fish, no;
    they're located down deep in the earth. So in order for Jonah to be in the
    fish's tummy and down at the bottoms of the mountains simultaneously, the
    non physical component of his existence had to be removed from Jonah's
    corpse and taken below.

    Matt 12:40 . . For just as Jonah was in the belly of the huge fish three
    days and three nights, so the Son of man will be in the heart of the earth
    three days and three nights.

    Now when you think about it, Christ's remains weren't interred in the heart
    of the earth. In point of fact his remains weren't even buried in the earth's
    soil. They were laid to rest on the surface of the earth in a rock-hewn tomb.
    So then, in order for Christ to be down in the heart of the earth while up on
    the surface too-- literally two places at once -- the non physical component
    of his existence had to be removed from the Lord's corpse and taken below.

    Just before being cast ashore, Jonah prayed thus:

    Jonah 2:6 . .To the bottoms of the mountains I went down. As for the
    earth, its bars were upon me for time indefinite. But out of the pit you
    proceeded to bring up my life, O Jehovah my God.

    The Hebrew word for "pit" in that verse is the very same word for "pit" in Ps
    16:8-10; which Acts 2:25-31 verifies is speaking of putrefaction. In other
    words: Jonah 2:6 is the language of resurrection.

    So then, just as Jonah's soul was not left at the bottoms of the mountains,
    Christ's soul was not left in the heart of the earth. And just as Jonah's body
    was not left to decompose in the fish, neither was Christ's left to decompose
    in the tomb. And just as Jonah came back from his grave within three days
    and nights fully human, so Jesus came back from his grave within three days
    and nights fully human too. If none of this were so, then the story of Jonah's
    resurrection would be a pretty useless parallel to the story of Christ's
    resurrection.

    NOTE: The bars that Jonah spoke of in Jonah 2:6 are likely equivalent to the
    gates that Christ spoke of in Matt 16:18.

    /
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  8. #8
    Senior Member FreeNChrist's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why Christ Didn't Stay Dead


    "For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who have fallen asleep in Jesus."
    1 Thessalonians 4:14
    Magenta and Grace777x70 like this.

    “How foolish can you be? After starting your new lives in the Spirit, why are you now trying to become perfect by your own human effort?”
    Gal 3:3



  9. #9
    Senior Member WebersHome's Avatar
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    Post Re: Why Christ Didn't Stay Dead

    -
    CCC 1031 . . As for certain lesser faults, we must believe that, before the Final
    Judgment, there is a purifying fire.

    The "elect" spoken of in CCC 1031 need not be concerned about a purifying
    fire seeing as how God keeps no records of their faults; neither their lesser
    nor their greater.

    2Cor 5:19 . .God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not
    counting their trespasses against them

    The koiné Greek word translated "counting" is logizomai (log-id'-zom-ahee)
    which means to take an inventory.

    Rom 4:8 . . Blessed is the man whose sin the Lord does not record.

    Q: God is letting the elect slide?

    A: In a manner of speaking, yes, because Christ took the elect's persons,
    and their records, with him to the cross.

    Isa 53:6 . .We had all gone astray like sheep, all following our own way;
    but The Lord laid upon him the guilt of us all.

    Rom 4:25 . .He was handed over for our transgressions.

    Rom 6:3 . . Or don't you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ
    Jesus were baptized into his death?

    Gal 2:20 . . I am crucified with Christ

    Col 3:2 . . For you have died, and your life is hid with Christ in God.

    Along with the benefit of Christ's crucifixion is the additional benefit of his
    resurrection.

    Rom 4:25 . . He was raised for our justification.

    The koiné Greek word for "justification" is dikaioo (dik-ah-yo'-o) which
    essentially means to regard as innocent, i.e. to acquit.

    The word in Rom 4:25 is grammatically singular. i.e. it is not like this:

    "He was raised for our justifications."

    In other words: the innocence made available by Christ's resurrection is a
    permanent stamp of approval.

    Heb 10:14 . . For by one offering he has perfected for all time those who
    are sanctified.

    "those who are sanctified" refers to the elect spoken of in CCC 1031,
    because the Greek word is hagiazo (hag-ee-ad'-zo) which essentially means
    to set something aside for God; i.e. consecrate and/or dedicate.

    I think it goes without saying that people "perfected for all time" by Christ's
    crucifixion and his resurrection, would be overdone by additional
    purification; especially when not even God himself can find something in the
    elect requiring heat treatment.

    Rom 8:33 . .Who will bring a charge against God’s chosen ones? It is God
    who acquits us.

    /

  10. #10
    Senior Member G00WZ's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why Christ Didn't Stay Dead

    John 2:19 Jesus answered them, "Destroy this temple, and I will raise it again in three days." if you want to keep it simple.

  11. #11
    Senior Member stonesoffire's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why Christ Didn't Stay Dead

    1Co 15:13  If there is no resurrection of the dead, then the Messiah has not been raised,
     

    1Co 15:14  and if the Messiah has not been raised, then our message means nothing and your faith means nothing. 


    1Co 15:15  In addition, we are found to be false witnesses about God because we testified on God's behalf that he raised the Messiah—whom he did not raise if in fact it is true that the dead are not raised.
     

    1Co 15:16  For if the dead are not raised, then the Messiah has not been raised,
     

    1Co 15:17  and if the Messiah has not been raised, your faith is worthless and you are still imprisoned by your sins. 
    1Co 15:18  Yes, even those who have died believing in the Messiah are lost.
     

    1Co 15:19  If we have set our hopes on the Messiah in this life only, we deserve more pity than any other people. 


    1Co 15:20  But at this moment the Messiah stands risen from the dead, the first one offered in the harvest of those who have died.
     

    1Co 15:21  For since death came through a man, the resurrection of the dead also came through a man. 


    1Co 15:22  For as in Adam all die, so also in the Messiah will all be made alive. 


    1Co 15:23  However, this will happen to each person in the proper order: first the Messiah, then those who belong to the Messiah when he comes.
     

    1Co 15:24  Then the end will come, when after he has done away with every ruler and every authority and power, the Messiah hands over the kingdom to God the Father. 
    1Co 15:25  For he must rule until God puts all the Messiah's enemies under his feet. 
    1Co 15:26  The last enemy to be done away with is death, 
    1Co 15:27  for "God has put everything under his feet." Now when he says, "Everything has been put under him," this clearly excludes the one who put everything under him. 
    1Co 15:28  But when everything has been put under him, then the Son himself will also become subject to the one who put everything under him, so that God may be all in all. 
    Jeepers Creepers...we gotta get new peepers.

    Mat 6:22 The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light.

  12. #12
    Senior Member dcontroversal's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why Christ Didn't Stay Dead

    Because it was impossible that death could hold him

  13. #13
    Senior Member WebersHome's Avatar
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    Post Re: Why Christ Didn't Stay Dead

    -
    When Christ passed away on the cross, he was essentially the embodiment
    of every sin that the whole world ever committed in the past, every sin the
    whole world is now committing, and every sin that the whole world will ever
    commit in the future; which includes the sins of people not yet born. (Isa
    53:1-6, John 1:29, 1John 2:2)

    Now; here's my question. Did Jesus come back from death with those sins,
    i.e. how many sins of the whole world's sins did he retain unpunished?

    Well; I think that both sides of the aisle can readily agree that Jesus came
    back from death with zero of the world's past, present, and future sins
    unpunished; yes? Yes.

    Now, supposing I posit that God has devised an ingenious way to regard me
    as His son Jesus, i.e. when His son Jesus passed away on the cross, I too
    passed away. (Rom 6:3)

    Were that so, then when His son Jesus rose from the dead, I too rose from
    the dead (Col 2:12). And if he rose from the dead with zero sins unpunished,
    then I too rose from the dead with zero sins unpunished; which would mean,
    of course, that I would retain zero sins requiring treatment in a cleansing
    fire; viz: a purgatory.

    If you can appreciate how unreasonable and unnecessary it would be to
    subject God's son Jesus to a cleansing fire, then you can easily appreciate
    how unreasonable and unnecessary it would be to subject me to a cleansing
    fire.

    /

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