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Thread: Why Does the Bible Contain Explicit Narratives?

  1. #101
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    Default Re: Why Does the Bible Contain Explicit Narratives?

    Quote Originally Posted by beta View Post
    can you give scripture ?

    Uh... I can't spell it .... hold on .... Ecclesiastes
    all of it basically
    Galatea likes this.

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    Default Re: Why Does the Bible Contain Explicit Narratives?

    Quote Originally Posted by beta View Post
    No, what Sol did was not a privat matter between him and God...it is widely published in all the world and therefore can be discussed. If you approve of his doings you have not read 1Kgs ch 11 where we are told of Sol's disobedience and doing evil in the sight of God. How he can be likened to Christ is beyond me...and I never mentioned David.
    I would really, really appreciate it if people started reading posts before responding. If you thought Solomon was a pervert then so was King David,you dont have to mention his name,it only makes sense. I did not say what he did was right,but David was called a man after Gods own heart and had more than one wife. Solomons sins were between he and God. But if you call him a pervert so was David and several other Bible characters. I did not liken him to Christ,I said his poetry has been compared to the relationship between Christ and his bride the church. If it was perverted filth then Song of Solomon would not have been included in cannon Scripture. But it has been considered a comparison of Christ and His bride down through the years. Please read more carefully the next time before you accuse me of things I did not say. The Bible says Solomon was led astray by an unbelieving wife.The Bible never called him a pervert,nor should you.

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    Default Re: Why Does the Bible Contain Explicit Narratives?

    Quote Originally Posted by beta View Post
    Yes, I quite understand that people in those times had their own way of doing things...before God took Israel in hand and taught them better ways. God also told them they were no longer to do things the way other people did and they were not to 'inter-marry. Solomon as King of Israel would have known that....so why did he the exact opposite ? 1Kgs ch 11, gives a very bad report of him yet people almost revere him and compare him to Christ ?

    ​Never compared him to Christ,please stop saying something that is a lie.

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    Default Re: Why Does the Bible Contain Explicit Narratives?

    1Ki 11:1 But king Solomon loved many strange women, together with the daughter of Pharaoh, women of the Moabites, Ammonites, Edomites, Zidonians, and Hittites;
    1Ki 11:2 Of the nations concerning which the LORD said unto the children of Israel, Ye shall not go in to them, neither shall they come in unto you: for surely they will turn away your heart after their gods: Solomon clave unto these in love.
    1Ki 11:3 And he had seven hundred wives, princesses, and three hundred concubines: and his wives turned away his heart.
    1Ki 11:4 For it came to pass, when Solomon was old, that his wives turned away his heart after other gods: and his heart was not perfect with the LORD his God, as was the heart of David his father.
    1Ki 11:5 For Solomon went after Ashtoreth the goddess of the Zidonians, and after Milcom the abomination of the Ammonites.
    1Ki 11:6 And Solomon did evil in the sight of the LORD, and went not fully after the LORD, as did David his father.
    1Ki 11:7 Then did Solomon build an high place for Chemosh, the abomination of Moab, in the hill that is before Jerusalem, and for Molech, the abomination of the children of Ammon.
    1Ki 11:8 And likewise did he for all his strange wives, which burnt incense and sacrificed unto their gods.
    1Ki 11:9 And the LORD was angry with Solomon, because his heart was turned from the LORD God of Israel, which had appeared unto him twice,
    1Ki 11:10 And had commanded him concerning this thing, that he should not go after other gods: but he kept not that which the LORD commanded.

    Ecc 1:1 The words of the Preacher, the son of David, king in Jerusalem.
    Ecc 1:2 Vanity of vanities, saith the Preacher, vanity of vanities; all is vanity.
    Ecc 1:3 What profit hath a man of all his labour which he taketh under the sun?

    Ecc 1:17 And I gave my heart to know wisdom, and to know madness and folly: I perceived that this also is vexation of spirit.

    cc 2:1 I said in mine heart, Go to now, I will prove thee with mirth, therefore enjoy pleasure: and, behold, this also is vanity.
    Ecc 2:2 I said of laughter, It is mad: and of mirth, What doeth it?
    Ecc 2:3 I sought in mine heart to give myself unto wine, yet acquainting mine heart with wisdom; and to lay hold on folly, till I might see what was that good for the sons of men, which they should do under the heaven all the days of their life.
    Ecc 2:4 I made me great works; I builded me houses; I planted me vineyards:
    Ecc 2:5 I made me gardens and orchards, and I planted trees in them of all kind of fruits:
    Ecc 2:6 I made me pools of water, to water therewith the wood that bringeth forth trees:
    Ecc 2:7 I got me servants and maidens, and had servants born in my house; also I had great possessions of great and small cattle above all that were in Jerusalem before me:
    Ecc 2:8 I gathered me also silver and gold, and the peculiar treasure of kings and of the provinces: I gat me men singers and women singers, and the delights of the sons of men, as musical instruments, and that of all sorts.
    Ecc 2:9 So I was great, and increased more than all that were before me in Jerusalem: also my wisdom remained with me.
    Ecc 2:10 And whatsoever mine eyes desired I kept not from them, I withheld not my heart from any joy; for my heart rejoiced in all my labour: and this was my portion of all my labour.
    Ecc 2:11 Then I looked on all the works that my hands had wrought, and on the labour that I had laboured to do: and, behold, all was vanity and vexation of spirit, and there was no profit under the sun.

    Ecc 2:12 And I turned myself to behold wisdom, and madness, and folly: for what can the man do that cometh after the king? even that which hath been already done.
    Ecc 2:13 Then I saw that wisdom excelleth folly, as far as light excelleth darkness.

    Ecc 12:9 And moreover, because the preacher was wise, he still taught the people knowledge; yea, he gave good heed, and sought out, and set in order many proverbs.
    Ecc 12:10 The preacher sought to find out acceptable words: and that which was written was upright, even words of truth.
    Ecc 12:11 The words of the wise are as goads, and as nails fastened by the masters of assemblies, which are given from one shepherd.
    Ecc 12:12 And further, by these, my son, be admonished: of making many books there is no end; and much study is a weariness of the flesh.
    Ecc 12:13 Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.
    Ecc 12:14 For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.

    Solomon did go astray,but he eventually got back on track,and realized that only by fearing God,and keeping His commandments,is the true profit.and Solomon did that which is evil in the sight of the LORD,and not as his father David,for although David messed up,he never did get to the point of Solomon,and his desire to sin.

    Can a person say that Solomon was perverted,it might be a true statement,for he collected women like baseball cards,which his father never did that,nor did his father allow himself to be led away with the ways of the heathen,like Solomon did concerning his wifes,even catering to their false god ways,and it was more than one wife that led him astray.

    Solomon was a dog for a while,but he gave it up.

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    Default Re: Why Does the Bible Contain Explicit Narratives?

    Quote Originally Posted by MattforJesus View Post
    1Ki 11:1 But king Solomon loved many strange women, together with the daughter of Pharaoh, women of the Moabites, Ammonites, Edomites, Zidonians, and Hittites;
    1Ki 11:2 Of the nations concerning which the LORD said unto the children of Israel, Ye shall not go in to them, neither shall they come in unto you: for surely they will turn away your heart after their gods: Solomon clave unto these in love.
    1Ki 11:3 And he had seven hundred wives, princesses, and three hundred concubines: and his wives turned away his heart.
    1Ki 11:4 For it came to pass, when Solomon was old, that his wives turned away his heart after other gods: and his heart was not perfect with the LORD his God, as was the heart of David his father.
    1Ki 11:5 For Solomon went after Ashtoreth the goddess of the Zidonians, and after Milcom the abomination of the Ammonites.
    1Ki 11:6 And Solomon did evil in the sight of the LORD, and went not fully after the LORD, as did David his father.
    1Ki 11:7 Then did Solomon build an high place for Chemosh, the abomination of Moab, in the hill that is before Jerusalem, and for Molech, the abomination of the children of Ammon.
    1Ki 11:8 And likewise did he for all his strange wives, which burnt incense and sacrificed unto their gods.
    1Ki 11:9 And the LORD was angry with Solomon, because his heart was turned from the LORD God of Israel, which had appeared unto him twice,
    1Ki 11:10 And had commanded him concerning this thing, that he should not go after other gods: but he kept not that which the LORD commanded.

    Ecc 1:1 The words of the Preacher, the son of David, king in Jerusalem.
    Ecc 1:2 Vanity of vanities, saith the Preacher, vanity of vanities; all is vanity.
    Ecc 1:3 What profit hath a man of all his labour which he taketh under the sun?

    Ecc 1:17 And I gave my heart to know wisdom, and to know madness and folly: I perceived that this also is vexation of spirit.

    cc 2:1 I said in mine heart, Go to now, I will prove thee with mirth, therefore enjoy pleasure: and, behold, this also is vanity.
    Ecc 2:2 I said of laughter, It is mad: and of mirth, What doeth it?
    Ecc 2:3 I sought in mine heart to give myself unto wine, yet acquainting mine heart with wisdom; and to lay hold on folly, till I might see what was that good for the sons of men, which they should do under the heaven all the days of their life.
    Ecc 2:4 I made me great works; I builded me houses; I planted me vineyards:
    Ecc 2:5 I made me gardens and orchards, and I planted trees in them of all kind of fruits:
    Ecc 2:6 I made me pools of water, to water therewith the wood that bringeth forth trees:
    Ecc 2:7 I got me servants and maidens, and had servants born in my house; also I had great possessions of great and small cattle above all that were in Jerusalem before me:
    Ecc 2:8 I gathered me also silver and gold, and the peculiar treasure of kings and of the provinces: I gat me men singers and women singers, and the delights of the sons of men, as musical instruments, and that of all sorts.
    Ecc 2:9 So I was great, and increased more than all that were before me in Jerusalem: also my wisdom remained with me.
    Ecc 2:10 And whatsoever mine eyes desired I kept not from them, I withheld not my heart from any joy; for my heart rejoiced in all my labour: and this was my portion of all my labour.
    Ecc 2:11 Then I looked on all the works that my hands had wrought, and on the labour that I had laboured to do: and, behold, all was vanity and vexation of spirit, and there was no profit under the sun.

    Ecc 2:12 And I turned myself to behold wisdom, and madness, and folly: for what can the man do that cometh after the king? even that which hath been already done.
    Ecc 2:13 Then I saw that wisdom excelleth folly, as far as light excelleth darkness.

    Ecc 12:9 And moreover, because the preacher was wise, he still taught the people knowledge; yea, he gave good heed, and sought out, and set in order many proverbs.
    Ecc 12:10 The preacher sought to find out acceptable words: and that which was written was upright, even words of truth.
    Ecc 12:11 The words of the wise are as goads, and as nails fastened by the masters of assemblies, which are given from one shepherd.
    Ecc 12:12 And further, by these, my son, be admonished: of making many books there is no end; and much study is a weariness of the flesh.
    Ecc 12:13 Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.
    Ecc 12:14 For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.

    Solomon did go astray,but he eventually got back on track,and realized that only by fearing God,and keeping His commandments,is the true profit.and Solomon did that which is evil in the sight of the LORD,and not as his father David,for although David messed up,he never did get to the point of Solomon,and his desire to sin.

    Can a person say that Solomon was perverted,it might be a true statement,for he collected women like baseball cards,which his father never did that,nor did his father allow himself to be led away with the ways of the heathen,like Solomon did concerning his wifes,even catering to their false god ways,and it was more than one wife that led him astray.

    Solomon was a dog for a while,but he gave it up.


    Right,the Bible says God loved Solomon. I find it disrespectful to say he was a pervert. Ive never heard anyone say that. But he did sin,admit to it and changed his ways. Better to call him like the rest of us,a sinner saved by grace.

  6. #106
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    Default Re: Why Does the Bible Contain Explicit Narratives?

    Quote Originally Posted by beta View Post
    Neither did God intend Solomon to marry 'outlamndish, strange women. Israel were intended to marry 'within Israel' and Sol as King should have set the example instead of going against God to satisfy his own lust, that is what it comes down to. So why did he choose women from outside ?
    Well - Israel had been taken 'in hand by God as His special people and told to behave in a better more godly way - whereas women from other lands did not have any restrictions on their wild and uninhibited manners. Seems Solomon liked their kind of behaviour better than the chastened Israeli women.
    So yes - sex is wrong with those who God does not approve of , please read 1 Kgs ch 11.
    I have the match ready. Can I burn down the strawmen you love to erect now?

    Who said anything about Solomon's 300 wives and 700 concubines being a good thing?

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    Default Re: Why Does the Bible Contain Explicit Narratives?

    Quote Originally Posted by Magenta View Post
    Not necessarily...
    Yes, it would be wrong.
    Philippians 1:6 "Being confident of this very thing, that He which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ"

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    Default Re: Why Does the Bible Contain Explicit Narratives?

    Quote Originally Posted by kaylagrl View Post
    Right,the Bible says God loved Solomon. I find it disrespectful to say he was a pervert. Ive never heard anyone say that. But he did sin,admit to it and changed his ways. Better to call him like the rest of us,a sinner saved by grace.
    So why was he not content with wives from his own nation like God wanted him to have ?
    Too tame for his oversexed urges, he wanted women who had no inhibitions or sexual restrictions seeing he clung to them 'in love' and not any other reason. Why would any man want a thousand women to love ? it's perverse - but it's in the past serving as a 'reminder that even the worst can change and be accepted with God.
    I hope that we can all look at him in a fresh light !

    I am leaving it there and hope that the op poster can stop questioning God and the Bible !

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    Default Re: Why Does the Bible Contain Explicit Narratives?

    Quote Originally Posted by umzza View Post
    These are probably my biggest reasons for not trusting the Bible

    1) Why is there a whole book of the Bible filled with sexually explicit narrative? I don't have a problem with the Bible talking about sex, but Song of Solomon seems to be written in a way to stir desire more than to inform/teach. It reads much like a literotica would. These is very troubling for me because Christianity very strongly condemns pornography.

    2) Why is Song of Solomon, a book that is supposedly about healthy intimacy in marriage, written by a man who had a ton of wives? I get it, everyone's a sinner, but God didn't let David build a temple because he was not a man of peace. Why would God let a promiscuous man write a whole Bible book about this subject?

    3) Why did Mary, a YOUNG teenager, marry a man who was probably 30 or so? And if it was just a cultural thing, why do Christians get so incredibly upset when an older man initiates a relationship with a teen? Like they send men to jail for doing that. Why does it bother Christians so much if it was how God chose to be born?

    Sorry for the nature of this post. It is not a topic I enjoy. But it makes me very angry because I do not understand it and makes me seriously question God.
    Sorry these things up set you. No one knows how old Mary or Joseph were, I know the catholic church started a tradition that Mary was a teenagers because she was a virgin, which in about 20 more years they'll have to say she was pre-teen so people came think of her a a virgin. Western culture does translate well with the Near East culture. In that time it was a very serious thing to be a virgin, the only other alternative was being a prostitute. If you were not a virgin everyone would know, after the consumption of the marriage vows they would hang the sheets up outside so everyone could see that you were still a virgin. If you weren't the husband would get back twice the dowery, if memory serves correctly. The reason the catholic church started that tradition, with Joesph being in his 30's or older and supposedly Mary was his second wife. Is to keep Mary ever virgin, because the Bible talks about brothers of Jesus in Matthew 12 and Mark 3. They say thatches are Jesus' step brothers from Josher's first marriage, there is nothing in the Bible about that either way. But divorce was looked down on, so I don't think he was.

    The song of Solomon may be very provocative to you, but if a man is married or had legal concubines I don't believe that was considered fornication or being promiscuous. From a man points of view, if those types of things stir up passion in a women, that's why God aloud Solomon to write it, because us guys are to stupid to understand what causes a when to be aroused. Because all we have to do see look at a women and we are aroused. I remember a sermon on sex that I heard before I was married, he said a women is like an iron, it takes time for her to warm up, but once she's hot, she's ready to get the job done. I did care for the last part the way it was explained. Then he said guys are like light switches all you got to do is turn them on. Which is so true, unfortunately

    To me any teenagers is young, but my first marriage I was 31 and my wife was 19 and no one had a problem with it. Now at my age I look back and think she was young, but we have a beautiful family and we still talk from time to time, she can finally talk to me with out getting up set and she doesn't talk bad about as much anymore, she actually corrects herself now and says your dad really wasn't that bad.

    Sorry the Bible upsets you, but it has you taking question so maybe that's what it's supposed to do for right now.
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    John 6:63, 65 "It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh is no help at all. The words that I have spoken to you are spirit and life....65 And he said, “This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless it is granted him by the Father.”

    I Corinthians 4:7 "For who sees anything different in you? What do you have that you did not receive? If then you received it, why do you boast as if you did not receive it?"

    Born in the Spirit & word, granted by the Father. EE-TEOW




  10. #110
    Senior Member kaylagrl's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why Does the Bible Contain Explicit Narratives?

    Quote Originally Posted by beta View Post
    So why was he not content with wives from his own nation like God wanted him to have ?
    Too tame for his oversexed urges, he wanted women who had no inhibitions or sexual restrictions seeing he clung to them 'in love' and not any other reason. Why would any man want a thousand women to love ? it's perverse - but it's in the past serving as a 'reminder that even the worst can change and be accepted with God.
    I hope that we can all look at him in a fresh light !

    I am leaving it there and hope that the op poster can stop questioning God and the Bible !


    Yes,I hope she can too if this is her main issue with believing which she seem to say it was.I think she may be able to see it differently now. Hopefully.
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    Default Re: Why Does the Bible Contain Explicit Narratives?

    Why is the Song of Songs in the Bible? What is it that makes "profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness?" Why is this book talk about sexuality? To find out right answer for you go to Bible.org/seriespage/29-song-songs
    KJVPsalm55;22 Cast thy burden upon the Lord, and he shall sustain thee; he shall never suffer the righteous to be moved.

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    Default Re: Why Does the Bible Contain Explicit Narratives?

    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny_B View Post
    Sorry these things up set you. No one knows how old Mary or Joseph were, I know the catholic church started a tradition that Mary was a teenagers because she was a virgin, which in about 20 more years they'll have to say she was pre-teen so people came think of her a a virgin. Western culture does translate well with the Near East culture. In that time it was a very serious thing to be a virgin, the only other alternative was being a prostitute. If you were not a virgin everyone would know, after the consumption of the marriage vows they would hang the sheets up outside so everyone could see that you were still a virgin. If you weren't the husband would get back twice the dowery, if memory serves correctly. The reason the catholic church started that tradition, with Joesph being in his 30's or older and supposedly Mary was his second wife. Is to keep Mary ever virgin, because the Bible talks about brothers of Jesus in Matthew 12 and Mark 3. They say thatches are Jesus' step brothers from Josher's first marriage, there is nothing in the Bible about that either way. But divorce was looked down on, so I don't think he was.

    The song of Solomon may be very provocative to you, but if a man is married or had legal concubines I don't believe that was considered fornication or being promiscuous. From a man points of view, if those types of things stir up passion in a women, that's why God aloud Solomon to write it, because us guys are to stupid to understand what causes a when to be aroused. Because all we have to do see look at a women and we are aroused. I remember a sermon on sex that I heard before I was married, he said a women is like an iron, it takes time for her to warm up, but once she's hot, she's ready to get the job done. I did care for the last part the way it was explained. Then he said guys are like light switches all you got to do is turn them on. Which is so true, unfortunately

    To me any teenagers is young, but my first marriage I was 31 and my wife was 19 and no one had a problem with it. Now at my age I look back and think she was young, but we have a beautiful family and we still talk from time to time, she can finally talk to me with out getting up set and she doesn't talk bad about as much anymore, she actually corrects herself now and says your dad really wasn't that bad.

    Sorry the Bible upsets you, but it has you taking question so maybe that's what it's supposed to do for right now.
    I think the stereotype about women having slower/lesser drive than men is inaccurate and an excuse men use to justify their promiscuity. Women react the same way as men. Anyways off topic but that just bothers me.
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    Default Re: Why Does the Bible Contain Explicit Narratives?

    Quote Originally Posted by umzza View Post
    I think the stereotype about women having slower/lesser drive than men is inaccurate and an excuse men use to justify their promiscuity. Women react the same way as men. Anyways off topic but that just bothers me.

    Well I dont know that we react exactly the same way. I think women take longer and so they are seen as having a slower sex drive. Also women have been taught that sex is something they are not suppose to want even when married. Its not feminine. So I think there are several stereotypes for women in that area.

  14. #114
    wwjd_kilden
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    Default Re: Why Does the Bible Contain Explicit Narratives?

    See, now this turned into a very interesting discussion.

    Maybe the expectations of society when it comes to lust, sex and everything related means people go a bit black and white about it? Like either it's all dirty no matter the context and shouldn't be done, or it is so natural that you should do it all the time to everyone.

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