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Thread: Who wrote the fourth gospel?

  1. #21
    BeyondET
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    Default Re: Who wrote the fourth gospel?

    Maybe there's a method to the purpose of not mentioning the beloved disciple as being John. a leap of faith it could be, that it was John the beloved disciple. I've notice not everything is spelled out directly, for a example Joseph isn't mentioned again after Joseph and Mary and Jesus had gone to the annual festival when Jesus was 12 years old. What happen, something happened because on the cross Jesus said to the beloved disciple here's your mother now, take her into your home. Joseph and Mary was married at some point, wouldn't Joseph had still taken care of his wife Mary.

  2. #22
    Senior Member Magenta's Avatar
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    Default Re: Who wrote the fourth gospel?

    Quote Originally Posted by tanakh View Post
    wait no longer you already have!
    Not really; I was just indicating that it is an argument I have seen. I was not making that assertion, just waiting and wondering if someone would assert it as a fact, or possibility.


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    Senior Member Magenta's Avatar
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    Default Re: Who wrote the fourth gospel?

    Quote Originally Posted by so-jesus-e-deus View Post
    Beloved sister Magenta, the Holy Scripture did not say that they were present at the judgment of Jesus, much less on the cross:



    • “And Simon Peter followed Jesus, and so did another disciple: that disciple was known unto the high priest, and went in with Jesus into the palace of the high priest. But Peter stood at the door without. Then went out that other disciple, which was known unto the high priest, and spake unto her that kept the door, and brought in Peter.” (John 18.16).
    • “When Jesus therefore saw his mother, and the disciple standing by, whom he loved, he saith unto his mother, Woman, behold thy son! Then saith he to the disciple, Behold thy mother! And from that hour that disciple took her unto his own home.” (John 10.26,27).


    Observe the terms quoted: “another disciple” and “whom he loved”. Nowhere says it's John.
    Yes, I was simply making the point that they fled the garden but then followed to the area where the bogus trial was taking place...
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    Senior Member Magenta's Avatar
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    Default Re: Who wrote the fourth gospel?

    Quote Originally Posted by jaybird88 View Post
    she wrote the gospel of Mary, duhh.
    Apocrypha


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    Default Re: Who wrote the fourth gospel?

    Quote Originally Posted by so-jesus-e-deus View Post
    Beloved sister DesertsRose,
    First, as I said in the previous post, no place in Holy Scripture says that it was John who was present at the judgment of Jesus, much less who was with Him on the cross.
    Secondly, at no time in the fourth Gospel it’s said that his author is John. The authorship of the Gospel is attributed to the disciple whom Jesus loves:


    • "Then Peter, turning about, seeth the disciple whom Jesus loved following; which also leaned on his breast at supper, and said, Lord, which is he that betrayeth thee? Peter seeing him saith to Jesus, Lord, and what shall this man do? Jesus saith unto him, If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee? follow thou me. Then went this saying abroad among the brethren, that that disciple should not die: yet Jesus said not unto him, He shall not die; but, If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee? This is the disciple which testifieth of these things, and wrote these things: and we know that his testimony is true." (John 21.21-24).


    However, since the beloved disciple is the one who was with Jesus on the cross, then it cannot be John, since Jesus said that all disciples (without exception) would abandon Him when He was on the cross. Peter may have followed from afar, but he was nowhere near, with Jesus. On the cross, he is not seen at any time.

    Thank you So for taking the time to explain your thought process. While it is true that scholars can't prove that John is the disciple that Jesus loved and can't prove that John wrote the 4th gospel, older scholars were the ones that believe it was John while it's modern scholars refute it.

    I'm going to continue to believe it was John unless someone comes up with proof to the contrary. But we can agree that it's the word of God no matter who the author is.

    Here's a scripture in Luke that shows the rest of the disciples were probably at the cross.

    And all the crowds who came together for this spectacle, when they observed what had happened, began to return, beating their breasts. And all His acquaintances and the women who accompanied Him from Galilee were standing at a distance, seeing these things. Luke 23:48-49

    I believe that the 11 disciples were there at the cross, but at a distance so that they would not be recognized and arrested and crucified as Jesus was.

    The women who were watching from a distance came closer to the cross when Jesus was about to die. So also the disciple whom Jesus loved came closer as well.

    Peter speaks to the crowds after he and John heal the lame man. He tells the crowd they were witnesses of the death and resurrection of Jesus, so they all were there.

    But you denied the Holy and Righteous One, and asked for a murderer to be granted to you, and you killed the Author of life, whom God raised from the dead. To this we are witnesses.
    Acts 3:14,15

    Ezekiel 18:23 Do I have any pleasure in the death of the wicked,” declares the Lord God, “rather than that he should turn from his ways and live?

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    Default Re: Who wrote the fourth gospel?

    Quote Originally Posted by Desertsrose View Post

    Hi so,

    The disciples left Jesus when He was arrested. It just means that when the soldiers came to arrest Jesus, they all fled at that time.

    If you read on, you'll see that Peter followed Jesus at a distance and that's when he ended up denying Him 3 times. So the disciples left at that moment in time at the arrest of Jesus.

    But they returned and that's why you find John at the cross as Jesus is dying.
    Yes.
    A friend, innocent of a charge, is on trial. Sadly, however, the friend is already guilty in the court of public opinion, which also is influencing the court and the immediate judicial system. The falsely accused finds himself basically friendless.

    A day or two after his conviction, the media pool is now gone.

    There, under the shadow of stretching Oak tree branches, a lone figure, shrouded in hat and scarf, walks in a bit of shame to visit his innocent, but convicted friend.

    Jesus was forgiving, though. He understood the weakness of His disciples.

    In all this DesertRose, you got it right.
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  7. #27
    Senior Member Desertsrose's Avatar
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    Default Re: Who wrote the fourth gospel?

    Hi Tray, Love the visual!!!
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    Ezekiel 18:23 Do I have any pleasure in the death of the wicked,” declares the Lord God, “rather than that he should turn from his ways and live?

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    Default Re: Who wrote the fourth gospel?

    Quote Originally Posted by Desertsrose View Post
    Hi Tray, Love the visual!!!
    For some reason I'm not surprised...deserts rose!

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    Default Re: Who wrote the fourth gospel?

    Quote Originally Posted by so-jesus-e-deus View Post
    Beloved sister Magenta, the Holy Scripture did not say that they were present at the judgment of Jesus, much less on the cross:



    • “And Simon Peter followed Jesus, and so did another disciple: that disciple was known unto the high priest, and went in with Jesus into the palace of the high priest. But Peter stood at the door without. Then went out that other disciple, which was known unto the high priest, and spake unto her that kept the door, and brought in Peter.” (John 18.16).
    • “When Jesus therefore saw his mother, and the disciple standing by, whom he loved, he saith unto his mother, Woman, behold thy son! Then saith he to the disciple, Behold thy mother! And from that hour that disciple took her unto his own home.” (John 10.26,27).


    Observe the terms quoted: “another disciple” and “whom he loved”. Nowhere says it's John.
    Check out the below:

    John 13.23
    John 19.26
    John 21.7, 20-22

    There are some that suggest the Disciple Jesus Loved was his real Brother James, but he was Killed by Herod and could not have taken care of their Mother Mary.....Acts 1 tells us that Mary was at the upper room, so this along with John's own definition of himself, prove the Disciple Jesus loved at the cross was in fact the 4th write of the Gospel

  10. #30
    Senior Member Willie-T's Avatar
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    Default Re: Who wrote the fourth gospel?

    I find it interesting that some scholars believe Lazarus wrote the book of John.
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    Default Re: Who wrote the fourth gospel?

    Quote Originally Posted by so-jesus-e-deus View Post
    If the beloved disciple is John, then how to explain the fact that he is there with Jesus on the cross, when Jesus said that all the disciples left him?
    They forsook Him and fled in the Garden. John, who was related to the chief priests, later felt more able to exposes himself than the others having less to fear.
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