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Thread: Who wrote the fourth gospel?

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    Senior Member so-jesus-e-deus's Avatar
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    Question Who wrote the fourth gospel?

    If the beloved disciple is John, then how to explain the fact that he is there with Jesus on the cross, when Jesus said that all the disciples left him?
    "Then shall we know, if we follow on to know the LORD: his going forth is prepared as the morning; and he shall come unto us as the rain, as the latter and former rain unto the earth." (Hosea 6.3).

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    Senior Member Magenta's Avatar
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    Default Re: Who wrote the fourth gospel?

    To which Scripture are you referring? Do you understand that people can leave and then return? I am puzzled at your question. John and Peter were also present during the so-called trial, which was after they all fled following His arrest in the garden.
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    Senior Member Johnny_B's Avatar
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    Default Re: Who wrote the fourth gospel?

    Quote Originally Posted by so-jesus-e-deus View Post
    If the beloved disciple is John, then how to explain the fact that he is there with Jesus on the cross, when Jesus said that all the disciples left him?
    Can you post the Scripture where it says they left Him when He was on the Cross. There's something else that made me wonder that as well, but I can't for the life of me remember what it was.
    John 6:63, 65 "It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh is no help at all. The words that I have spoken to you are spirit and life....65 And he said, “This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless it is granted him by the Father.”

    I Corinthians 4:7 "For who sees anything different in you? What do you have that you did not receive? If then you received it, why do you boast as if you did not receive it?"

    Born in the Spirit & word, granted by the Father. EE-TEOW




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    Senior Member Ugly's Avatar
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    Default Re: Who wrote the fourth gospel?

    John 6:66
    But it says 'many', not all, and 'disciples' not Apostles. Also if you read further he asks his Apostles if they will abandon him also and their answer, basically, was no we will not abandon you.
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    Senior Member Desertsrose's Avatar
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    Default Re: Who wrote the fourth gospel?

    Quote Originally Posted by so-jesus-e-deus View Post
    If the beloved disciple is John, then how to explain the fact that he is there with Jesus on the cross, when Jesus said that all the disciples left him?

    Hi so,

    The disciples left Jesus when He was arrested. It just means that when the soldiers came to arrest Jesus, they all fled at that time.

    If you read on, you'll see that Peter followed Jesus at a distance and that's when he ended up denying Him 3 times. So the disciples left at that moment in time at the arrest of Jesus.

    But they returned and that's why you find John at the cross as Jesus is dying.

    He has told you, O man, what is good;

    And what does the Lord require of you
    But to do justice, to love kindness,
    And to walk humbly with your God?
    Micah 6:8




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    Senior Member Desertsrose's Avatar
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    Default Re: Who wrote the fourth gospel?

    Also, what does the question have to do with who wrote the 4th gospel?

    John is the one who wrote it, but I don't get how that has anything to do with John being at the foot of the cross when Jesus was crucified.
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    He has told you, O man, what is good;

    And what does the Lord require of you
    But to do justice, to love kindness,
    And to walk humbly with your God?
    Micah 6:8




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    Senior Member jaybird88's Avatar
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    Default Re: Who wrote the fourth gospel?

    SJ you have some good topics but i am not getting what your asking on this one?

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    Senior Member Magenta's Avatar
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    Default Re: Who wrote the fourth gospel?

    I am waiting for someone to say it was Mary Magdalene


    Embrace the Grace and Rejoice in His Everlasting Mercy and Love

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    wwjd_kilden
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    Default Re: Who wrote the fourth gospel?

    *Shrugs* It looks like it was John who wrote it.
    Ultimately not important which of them did write it though


    19
    25 Now there stood by the cross of Jesus His mother, and His mother’s sister, Mary the wife of Clopas, and Mary Magdalene. 26 When Jesus therefore saw His mother, and the disciple whom He loved standing by, He said to His mother, “Woman, behold your son!” 27 Then He said to the disciple, “Behold your mother!” And from that hour that disciple took her to his own home.

    ....
    21

    20 Then Peter, turning around, saw the disciple whom Jesus loved following, who also had leaned on His breast at the supper, and said, “Lord, who is the one who betrays You?” 21 Peter, seeing him, said to Jesus, “But Lord, what about this man?”

    22 Jesus said to him, “If I will that he remain till I come, what is that to you? You follow Me.”

    23 Then this saying went out among the brethren that this disciple would not die. Yet Jesus did not say to him that he would not die, but, “If I will that he remain till I come, what is that to you?”

    24 This is the disciple who testifies of these things, and wrote these things; and we know that his testimony is true.

    25 And there are also many other things that Jesus did, which if they were written one by one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that would be written. Amen

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    Senior Member tanakh's Avatar
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    Default Re: Who wrote the fourth gospel?

    Quote Originally Posted by Magenta View Post
    I am waiting for someone to say it was Mary Magdalene
    wait no longer you already have!

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    Senior Member trofimus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Who wrote the fourth gospel?

    "This is the disciple who testifies of these things, and wrote these things; and we know that his testimony is true."

    Seems that the gospel of John contains the writings of John and editorial notes by some group of people.
    Let the brotherly love stay * Láska bratrská ať zůstává

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    Senior Member DustyRhodes's Avatar
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    Default Re: Who wrote the fourth gospel?

    Just to clarify, the disciple Jesus loved was John's description of himself. He repeated
    it several times. I know it's not exactly responding to the thread but is is a part of it.
    The important point is that John really internalised the love of Christ while the other
    apostles may have not got there yet.
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    Senior Member jaybird88's Avatar
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    Default Re: Who wrote the fourth gospel?

    Quote Originally Posted by Magenta View Post
    I am waiting for someone to say it was Mary Magdalene
    she wrote the gospel of Mary, duhh.
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    Senior Member so-jesus-e-deus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Who wrote the fourth gospel?

    Quote Originally Posted by Magenta View Post
    To which Scripture are you referring? Do you understand that people can leave and then return? I am puzzled at your question. John and Peter were also present during the so-called trial, which was after they all fled following His arrest in the garden.
    Beloved sister Magenta, the Holy Scripture did not say that they were present at the judgment of Jesus, much less on the cross:



    • “And Simon Peter followed Jesus, and so did another disciple: that disciple was known unto the high priest, and went in with Jesus into the palace of the high priest. But Peter stood at the door without. Then went out that other disciple, which was known unto the high priest, and spake unto her that kept the door, and brought in Peter.” (John 18.16).
    • “When Jesus therefore saw his mother, and the disciple standing by, whom he loved, he saith unto his mother, Woman, behold thy son! Then saith he to the disciple, Behold thy mother! And from that hour that disciple took her unto his own home.” (John 10.26,27).


    Observe the terms quoted: “another disciple” and “whom he loved”. Nowhere says it's John.
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    "Then shall we know, if we follow on to know the LORD: his going forth is prepared as the morning; and he shall come unto us as the rain, as the latter and former rain unto the earth." (Hosea 6.3).

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    Senior Member so-jesus-e-deus's Avatar
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    Lightbulb Re: Who wrote the fourth gospel?

    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny_B View Post
    Can you post the Scripture where it says they left Him when He was on the Cross. There's something else that made me wonder that as well, but I can't for the life of me remember what it was.

    • "Then saith Jesus unto them, All ye shall be offended because of me this night: for it is written, I will smite the shepherd, and the sheep of the flock shall be scattered abroad." (Matthew 26.31).
    • "Behold, the hour cometh, yea, is now come, that ye shall be scattered, every man to his own, and shall leave me alone: and yet I am not alone, because the Father is with me." (John 16.32)
    "Then shall we know, if we follow on to know the LORD: his going forth is prepared as the morning; and he shall come unto us as the rain, as the latter and former rain unto the earth." (Hosea 6.3).

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    Senior Member so-jesus-e-deus's Avatar
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    Lightbulb Re: Who wrote the fourth gospel?

    Quote Originally Posted by Desertsrose View Post
    Also, what does the question have to do with who wrote the 4th gospel?

    John is the one who wrote it, but I don't get how that has anything to do with John being at the foot of the cross when Jesus was crucified.
    Beloved sister DesertsRose,
    First, as I said in the previous post, no place in Holy Scripture says that it was John who was present at the judgment of Jesus, much less who was with Him on the cross.
    Secondly, at no time in the fourth Gospel it’s said that his author is John. The authorship of the Gospel is attributed to the disciple whom Jesus loves:


    • "Then Peter, turning about, seeth the disciple whom Jesus loved following; which also leaned on his breast at supper, and said, Lord, which is he that betrayeth thee? Peter seeing him saith to Jesus, Lord, and what shall this man do? Jesus saith unto him, If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee? follow thou me. Then went this saying abroad among the brethren, that that disciple should not die: yet Jesus said not unto him, He shall not die; but, If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee? This is the disciple which testifieth of these things, and wrote these things: and we know that his testimony is true." (John 21.21-24).


    However, since the beloved disciple is the one who was with Jesus on the cross, then it cannot be John, since Jesus said that all disciples (without exception) would abandon Him when He was on the cross. Peter may have followed from afar, but he was nowhere near, with Jesus. On the cross, he is not seen at any time.
    "Then shall we know, if we follow on to know the LORD: his going forth is prepared as the morning; and he shall come unto us as the rain, as the latter and former rain unto the earth." (Hosea 6.3).

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    Senior Member so-jesus-e-deus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Who wrote the fourth gospel?

    Quote Originally Posted by jaybird88 View Post
    SJ you have some good topics but i am not getting what your asking on this one?
    Thank you for your compliment. I'm glad that my questions are bringing you edification. I hope that in my previous posts I have managed to be clearer about my doubt.
    Magenta likes this.
    "Then shall we know, if we follow on to know the LORD: his going forth is prepared as the morning; and he shall come unto us as the rain, as the latter and former rain unto the earth." (Hosea 6.3).

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    Senior Member BeyondET's Avatar
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    Default Re: Who wrote the fourth gospel?

    Quote Originally Posted by so-jesus-e-deus View Post
    If the beloved disciple is John, then how to explain the fact that he is there with Jesus on the cross, when Jesus said that all the disciples left him?
    Well scripture does say at the time that they arrested Jesus, the disciples deserted him, though that wasn't for very long we know this how, because Peter and another "disciple" followed Jesus while He was led away bound.
    posthuman and Magenta like this.

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    Senior Member so-jesus-e-deus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Who wrote the fourth gospel?

    Quote Originally Posted by wwjd_kilden View Post
    *Shrugs* It looks like it was John who wrote it.
    Ultimately not important which of them did write it though
    Beloved sister Wwjd_kilden, the truth is always important (John 8.32). As it is the truth who frees, we must always delve into her.
    "Then shall we know, if we follow on to know the LORD: his going forth is prepared as the morning; and he shall come unto us as the rain, as the latter and former rain unto the earth." (Hosea 6.3).

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    Senior Member posthuman's Avatar
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    Default Re: Who wrote the fourth gospel?

    Quote Originally Posted by so-jesus-e-deus View Post
    However, since the beloved disciple is the one who was with Jesus on the cross, then it cannot be John, since Jesus said that all disciples (without exception) would abandon Him when He was on the cross.
    Scripture says the disciple was at the cross with Mary so how can you hold that no disciple came to the cross?

    Matthew 26:31 says they will all be offended by Him "this night" - guess what, it wasn't still that night when He was crucified. That night, He stood before the Sanhedrin. The next day He stood before Pilate and the crowds chanted "crucify Him"

    Surely Christ did not mean they would abandon Him forever, and as they all ran off at the garden when Judas arrived with the temple guard, what He said to them found its fulfilment.


    IMO you are seeing a problem where there is none.
    Desertsrose likes this.

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