The heart wicked or clean - What does Jesus say?

[JIMBO43]

The old testerment if you where Unclean you had to stand at the edge of the camp for two weeks untill you where aloud back in.. tell me would the heart want to be unclean again ?

In some cases like slanderers yes they would probably seek revenge on there prosercuters or anyone who talked bad about them..

Where as the none slanderers would probablt try to be a lot cleaner from that day..

So i still say it was possible to have a good heart in the old testerment... despite what jeremiah say the heart is wicked who can Know it... i would say the heart rules the mind some of the time but not all of the time..

 

[FreeNChrist]

Lets get real. The lusts of the heart are not thought through ideas, they are raw desire
and emotion, and appear as part of our humanity.

Being nice, when you get angry with someone, it is because you thought through an idea
and not just you got annoyed and you are not sure why?

A classic situation after a hard day a work is a short temper. But that is just because you
have short temper thoughts? lol.

Why is this like a kids playground on the emotions of the heart? Maybe because you are children
in this aspect of life, and are just ruled by how you feel and have always repressed everything and
only let out things in a very controlled way, which is a more realistic picture than this artificial emotions
are only linked to thoughts. A baby cries because it feels upset, it does not even know why.
It is the parent who has to work it out, and sort it out for them.

LOL. If you are lusting after a woman it is because you are thinking you would if you could. If you want to "get real" you are going to have to give up your clearly worldly foundational premise that man's problems are all emotional and that all we need is humanistic solutions and then we will be fine.

 

[valiant]

The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?
Jeremiah 17:9

The above is the state of those who do not follow Christ.

The above is true of ALL.

Those who have been saved are like this

Since, then, you have been raised with Christ, set your hearts on things above, where Christ is, seated at the right hand of God.
Col 3:1

How does that change things? Jesus said to his disciples, 'if you then BEING EVIL --'. But He knew that we could set our hearts on things above.

Let the peace of Christ rule in your hearts, since as members of one body you were called to peace. And be thankful.
Col 3:15

ditto

Some feel their emotions or hearts are a closed book they dare not touch.

Your heart is far more than your emotions. It includes your will and your mind. You dwell too much on the emotions, which you then interpret wrongly.

Three areas need addressing

1. Sinful behaviour is evil, needs to be dealt with, repented of

Agreed, but it will never be totally rooted out. As Jesus said, we are evil.

2. Love is King. Love heals and resolves issues

It might if we could let it, but you fail on this in the forum

3. Behaviour reflects the state of our hearts.

true so get it sorted in as far as you can.

Christ has come to rule in our hearts, but you need to let Him in.

But you have to get out first, and our problem is we can't.

We need to recognise our love and Gods love and set it free in our lives, to become
emotionally alive and free in Christs strength through the cross, by seeing His love
that drove Him to sacrifice Himself for us and forgive us of our sin and blindness.

you see you are concentrating TOO MUCH ON THE EMOTIONS. Your will and your mind needs to be yielded first. But we never do it perfectly.

It is pure delusion to think people have pure hearts because this is not the
experience of all.

If you mean totally pure it is not true of any. 'If you then being evil --'

The opposite is true, people are often overcome with sinful passions and encourage and dwell in fantasy to escape the grinding situation of their current reality.

Yes you are.

Unfortunately until people face the heart is where everything matters in the
believer they will never realise Gods power at work within them.

Fortunately this is not true. We all experience God's power at work within us. You say the heart, LOL what about your emotions

 

[PeterJens]

LOL. If you are lusting after a woman it is because you are thinking you would if you could. If you want to "get real" you are going to have to give up your clearly worldly foundational premise that man's problems are all emotional and that all we need is humanistic solutions and then we will be fine.

Hi FNC.

Now are you saying our problems are not the lusts of the heart, but something else?
People sin not because of desire but an intellectual puzzle they just want to solve!!!!

Get a life, that is ludicrous.

And if you read what I write, I write the solution is Christ and cross.

But you guys do not know how to apply Jesus and love to their hearts which is why this all
passes clean over your head and hearts.

And do you know when you feel insulted, hurt, angry, these are all emotions.
If you look at all aspects of life emotions are involved. Sin comes from a heart that
in sinful, hurt, desiring revenge and angry. It is these feelings that justify our evil
behaviour. But as you appear to never go into your own heart you have no clue what
I am talking about.

It is a wonder you ever came to faith. Or maybe you never actually have.

 

[FreeNChrist]

Hi FNC.

Now are you saying our problems are not the lusts of the heart, but something else?
People sin not because of desire but an intellectual puzzle they just want to solve!!!!

Get a life, that is ludicrous.

And if you read what I write, I write the solution is Christ and cross.

But you guys do not know how to apply Jesus and love to their hearts which is why this all
passes clean over your head and hearts.

And do you know when you feel insulted, hurt, angry, these are all emotions.
If you look at all aspects of life emotions are involved. Sin comes from a heart that
in sinful, hurt, desiring revenge and angry. It is these feelings that justify our evil
behaviour. But as you appear to never go into your own heart you have no clue what
I am talking about.

It is a wonder you ever came to faith. Or maybe you never actually have.

I suppose you "felt" you had to say something in response. But really, apply Jesus?

 

[valiant]

Hi FNC.

Now are you saying our problems are not the lusts of the heart, but something else?
People sin not because of desire but an intellectual puzzle they just want to solve!!!!

Get a life, that is ludicrous.

And if you read what I write, I write the solution is Christ and cross.

But you guys do not know how to apply Jesus and love to their hearts which is why this all
passes clean over your head and hearts.

And do you know when you feel insulted, hurt, angry, these are all emotions.
If you look at all aspects of life emotions are involved. Sin comes from a heart that
in sinful, hurt, desiring revenge and angry. It is these feelings that justify our evil
behaviour. But as you appear to never go into your own heart you have no clue what
I am talking about.

It is a wonder you ever came to faith. Or maybe you never actually have.

your arrogance comes out in everything you say

 

[PeterJens]

The above is true of ALL.

How does that change things? Jesus said to his disciples, 'if you then BEING EVIL --'. But He knew that we could set our hearts on things above.

ditto

Your heart is far more than your emotions. It includes your will and your mind. You dwell too much on the emotions, which you then interpret wrongly.

Agreed, but it will never be totally rooted out. As Jesus said, we are evil.

It might if we could let it, but you fail on this in the forum

true so get it sorted in as far as you can.

But you have to get out first, and our problem is we can't.

you see you are concentrating TOO MUCH ON THE EMOTIONS. Your will and your mind needs to be yielded first. But we never do it perfectly.

If you mean totally pure it is not true of any. 'If you then being evil --'

Yes you are.

Fortunately this is not true. We all experience God's power at work within us. You say the heart, LOL what about your emotions

Valiant, you talk like an emotional repressed closed down individual.
Think a little.

You are emotions, intellectual thoughts and your actions. There is nothing more to us
than this. We know the "I" in us dwells in our heads in some way and experiences emotions
and thoughts, ideas, all mixed together with memories, skills, experiences.

Jesus and God use the term heart to be that place where we dwell behind our defences, our
true selves. Here is this mixture of many things, and is the core of who we are.

Now if you cannot admit this is who you and I are, then everything else is pointless.
It strikes me you do not even understand this.

Jesus talks about we need to love God with our hearts and do everything with our hearts,
and have pure hearts, and our hearts are the source of good and evil in our lives.
So if we get our hearts sorted we can walk righteously.

It is really that simple, but a sinful heart will always make things more complicated because
all the hurts do not want to be exposed for fear of making things worse, but must be resolved
to walk with the Lord in love and peace.

Many here clearly have never done this, and carry burdens and locked rooms they do not want
to let anyone or God into. This is not accepting faith or salvation and will doom your soul.
Without a pure heart, cleansed and resolved you will not see God.

 

[PeterJens]

I suppose you "felt" you had to say something in response. But really, apply Jesus?

FNC - everything we do has a feeling associated with it. You are so locked down you
are not aware of it. Maybe you are suffering from depression, as many are.

 

[FreeNChrist]

FNC - everything we do has a feeling associated with it. You are so locked down you
are not aware of it. Maybe you are suffering from depression, as many are.

Thank you Dr. Fraud.

 

[PeterJens]

your arrogance comes out in everything you say

This is childish stuff. You want respect on spiritual matters yet you cannot even understand
daily mood swings, joys and sadnesses of daily life.

The reason I am aware of this is because Jesus has healed and freed me.
Do you ever laugh so hard you cry, or weep at sad occasions?
Are you aware of things going well, or the hard slog of pushing through?

This self awarness is called emotional intelligence, and is part of why some
tasks are easy and some hard, depending of how much we get out of it, and
how we set our expectations going into it.

Jesus calls us to do everything as serving Him, a joy to our hearts and praise
to His name. This is a very emotional walk, because we are not afraid of our
emotions, they are our joy and victory through the cross. Amen.

 

[PeterJens]

Thank you Dr. Fraud.

You know little about psychology to call me Freud.
I reject all his theories and ideas, because none have worked and he ended up
abusing his patients. When he was told by his female patients they were being
abused and he thought it was just their imagination, it was probably actually true
and their trauma was them not coping.

By the way I did not see you denying my suggestion. It is because it is not difficult
to know people and the state they are in.

It is also why we are called to walk in the light and encourage one another in Christ and
His love, singing songs and sharing good things in the Lord.

So please understand I am bringing you good news, freedom from you imprisonment,
a healing to hurts that bind you, a solution to trauma and distress of ones past.

Those who resist these truths are the ones who hurt and feel most strongly inside, that
the emotions repressed will pull them apart. This is just a delusion, from years of repression
and justifies the continued effort against the torrent of feelings that have built up but should
be felt, registered and let go.

I remember going through grief and mourning about my Dad. It was like waves of total despair.
But I needed to let it out, to feel it, to know how much he meant to me. And the deeper I went
the more I knew and understood, and was healed and changed. These are good things, for us
to walk in life with, to empathise and carry each others burdens, to know one another and be of
one mind and heart.

But your language is I am the enemy, someone to mock and make fun of, and definately nothing
of value. I love you despite all this, because it is simply ignorance and blindness and changes
nothing about these eternal realities. God bless you.

 

[FreeNChrist]

You know little about psychology to call me Freud.
I reject all his theories and ideas, because none have worked and he ended up
abusing his patients. When he was told by his female patients they were being
abused and he thought it was just their imagination, it was probably actually true
and their trauma was them not coping.

By the way I did not see you denying my suggestion. It is because it is not difficult
to know people and the state they are in.

It is also why we are called to walk in the light and encourage one another in Christ and
His love, singing songs and sharing good things in the Lord.

So please understand I am bringing you good news, freedom from you imprisonment,
a healing to hurts that bind you, a solution to trauma and distress of ones past.

Those who resist these truths are the ones who hurt and feel most strongly inside, that
the emotions repressed will pull them apart. This is just a delusion, from years of repression
and justifies the continued effort against the torrent of feelings that have built up but should
be felt, registered and let go.

I remember going through grief and mourning about my Dad. It was like waves of total despair.
But I needed to let it out, to feel it, to know how much he meant to me. And the deeper I went
the more I knew and understood, and was healed and changed. These are good things, for us
to walk in life with, to empathise and carry each others burdens, to know one another and be of
one mind and heart.

But your language is I am the enemy, someone to mock and make fun of, and definately nothing
of value. I love you despite all this, because it is simply ignorance and blindness and changes
nothing about these eternal realities. God bless you.

LOL. I didn't call you Freud.

 

[PeterJens]

Blessed are the pure in heart, for they will see God.
Matt 5:8

A pure heart. There is a sad reality here. If people do not get a pure heart
they will not see God. So you understand how brutal that is for so many.

They know their pet fantasy, their dreams they will not let go, the secret
delight they do without anyone else knowing. Hatred, unforgiveness, bitterness,
anger, revenge, covetousness all dwell in the heart and destroy how we hear God
and what we really want to do.

It is not a one day affair cleansing our hearts, working through our behaviours,
ambitions, goals, direction. It takes dedication, perseverance, focus, patience,
and all the gifts of the Spirit.

But it is possible.

 

[Grace777x70]

Get born-again and receive the abundance of grace and the gift of righteousness which is only found in Christ's finished work - this is received by grace through faith in Christ alone - then you will have a pure heart to live from.

From there on - it's the renewing of our minds to walk out in our behavior what is already in us in Christ as we discover Him and see ourselves as one spirit with Him in union and communion.

As we behold the goodness/glory of the Lord as in a mirror - the Holy Spirit transforms us. 2 Cor. 3:17-18

We participate in this with Him for it is God who is at work in us - giving us the desire and the ability to do His good pleasure. Phil. 2:13

 

[PeterJens]

Get born-again and receive the abundance of grace and the gift of righteousness which is only found in Christ's finished work - this is received by grace through faith in Christ alone - then you will have a pure heart to live from.

Lame.

Let us put your ideas into context.

Paul called the church in Corinth Holy yet they had serious problems with sexual
desire and getting inappropriately involved with other people.
They were far from being pure and they were certainly born again.

Paul talked about us, believers, sowing to the Spirit, purity life or to the lusts of
the flesh which lead to death and judgement.

Some where taking advantage of weak willed people in ministry, while others like
Timothy were living a pure life, holy and blameless.

So it is most definately not a simple open and shut case.
Paul also talks about purifying our hearts by what we dwell on and how we spend
our time.

So I find it interesting rather than facing the reality of scripture you wish to pump
this continuous comments that do not add up.

 

[Grace777x70]

Right believing in the finished work of Christ will bring about right living by the grace of God through faith. It also stops a D.I.Y self-righteousness belief system which denies the very grace of God needed to have His grace from operating in our lives like it was meant to.

Christ alone by His work has cleansed our hearts. The true Christian life is not based on the humanistic philosophy of this world. It is build on Him only.

 

[PeterJens]

Right believing in the finished work of Christ will bring about right living by the grace of God through faith. It also stops a D.I.Y self-righteousness belief system which denies the very grace of God needed to have His grace from operating in our lives like it was meant to.

Christ alone by His work has cleansed our hearts. The true Christian life is not based on the humanistic philosophy of this world. It is build on Him only.

To put it mildly all the people who support your theology oppose actually right living.
They openly confess failure at the most basic level, and believe this shows how spiritual
they are, or to me, how deceived and lost they are.

How can being stuck in quick sand and slowly sinking deeper and knowing you really do
need to be saved, is actually being saved, walking on dry ground and seeing Christ bring
real victory into your life and experience on a daily basis.

If you cannot deliver a walk like Christ you have nothing, emptiness, zip.

Your followers do not understand their hearts, their emotions, their weaknesses and strengths
and abdicate all responsibility to God, which is exactly what the enemy wants of deluded people.

The gifts of the spirit include self control.

But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law. Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.
Gal 5:22-24

This is all about taking the love Jesus is and taking ones life and knocking it into shape.
Love, joy peace all emotional expressions of life, real life, real freedom. A lost heart cannot
know these things, bound and depressed in sin and hard heartedness.

forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness - these are all acts of the will,
based on a focus and knowledge of what one is doing. And it all springs from having a pure
heart, which the theology you g7 claim you have but the fruit and words deny it, along with
all your followers who agree with you.

It is all a sad testimony of real failure at life, not over a few years, but a whole lifetime
culminating it a war on the body of Christ. This is what I call real delusion, similar to
a grand mal, were you alone stand between hell and the kingdom fighting off the hordes
of evil legalists who have deceived the church into believing they can earn salvation.

It is you who are being a serious problem, distracting and confusing simple issues of
getting right with God and walking in His ways from a clean pure heart because you have
really repented and sorted yourself out with the guidance of the Holy Spirit.

And I seriously doubt that any of the false teachers have a clue the blindness they are openly
declaring or how their very positions declare they know very little about love and purity at all.

 

[Grace777x70]

The sky is still blue....

 

[gb9]

To put it mildly all the people who support your theology oppose actually right living.
They openly confess failure at the most basic level, and believe this shows how spiritual
they are, or to me, how deceived and lost they are.

How can being stuck in quick sand and slowly sinking deeper and knowing you really do
need to be saved, is actually being saved, walking on dry ground and seeing Christ bring
real victory into your life and experience on a daily basis.

If you cannot deliver a walk like Christ you have nothing, emptiness, zip.

Your followers do not understand their hearts, their emotions, their weaknesses and strengths
and abdicate all responsibility to God, which is exactly what the enemy wants of deluded people.

The gifts of the spirit include self control.

But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law. Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.
Gal 5:22-24

This is all about taking the love Jesus is and taking ones life and knocking it into shape.
Love, joy peace all emotional expressions of life, real life, real freedom. A lost heart cannot
know these things, bound and depressed in sin and hard heartedness.

forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness - these are all acts of the will,
based on a focus and knowledge of what one is doing. And it all springs from having a pure
heart, which the theology you g7 claim you have but the fruit and words deny it, along with
all your followers who agree with you.

It is all a sad testimony of real failure at life, not over a few years, but a whole lifetime
culminating it a war on the body of Christ. This is what I call real delusion, similar to
a grand mal, were you alone stand between hell and the kingdom fighting off the hordes
of evil legalists who have deceived the church into believing they can earn salvation.

It is you who are being a serious problem, distracting and confusing simple issues of
getting right with God and walking in His ways from a clean pure heart because you have
really repented and sorted yourself out with the guidance of the Holy Spirit.

And I seriously doubt that any of the false teachers have a clue the blindness they are openly
declaring or how their very positions declare they know very little about love and purity at all.

yea, you are so loving when you lecture us on what we believe, what we think, how we think, we don't know the Bible, etc.......is SO loving.

 

[Grace777x70]

yea, you are so loving when you lecture us on what we believe, what we think, how we think, we don't know the Bible, etc.......is SO loving.

The truth is the sky is blue...

You can see why some have chosen not to interact with this type of a mindset. The distortion of what is being said in reality is mind-blowing.

We don't oppose right living - that is a foolish straw-man tactic - we oppose doing things in the flesh and trying to "mimic" the fruit of the Spirit by our own self-efforts instead of relying on the grace of God in Christ.

We are opposed to self-righteousness and the developing of a new evolution and the denial of the work of Christ in creating a new creation in Him.

This is what bothers those that have the belief system of that they must save themselves and create and maintain their own righteousness. The total reliance on Christ's work alone disqualifies the humanistic mindset of works-righteousness. Christ becomes a stumbling block to this belief system.

We all agree on what the true Christian life looks like when Christ is manifesting in and through us. The difference is how is this achieved? By "our doing" by our own will-power or by the Holy Spirit in our spirit giving us the grace and power to walk in His life. It is His good works that we the branches bear as His fruit in our lives.