The heart wicked or clean - What does Jesus say?

[PeterJens]

The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?
Jeremiah 17:9

The above is the state of those who do not follow Christ.

Those who have been saved are like this

Since, then, you have been raised with Christ, set your hearts on things above, where Christ is, seated at the right hand of God.
Col 3:1


Let the peace of Christ rule in your hearts, since as members of one body you were called to peace. And be thankful.
Col 3:15

Some feel their emotions or hearts are a closed book they dare not touch.

Three areas need addressing
1. Sinful behaviour is evil, needs to be dealt with, repented of
2. Love is King. Love heals and resolves issues
3. Behaviour reflects the state of our hearts.

Christ has come to rule in our hearts, but you need to let Him in.

We need to recognise our love and Gods love and set it free in our lives, to become
emotionally alive and free in Christs strength through the cross, by seeing His love
that drove Him to sacrifice Himself for us and forgive us of our sin and blindness.

It is pure delusion to think people have pure hearts because this is not the
experience of all. The opposite is true, people are often overcome with sinful
passions and encourage and dwell in fantasy to escape the grinding situation of
their current reality.

Unfortunately until people face the heart is where everything matters in the
believer they will never realise Gods power at work within them.

 

[Yeraza_Bats]

The Bible tells us to guard our hearts. I often like to point that out when talking with other Christians

The world tells us to follow our hearts, the Lord tells us to guard our hearts.

I definitely think its far better to guard your heart, and not just follow wherever it leads you to : p

 

[TraySir]

Let the peace of Christ rule in your hearts, since as members of one body you were called to peace. And be thankful.
Col 3:15
The opposite is true, people are often overcome with sinful
passions and encourage and dwell in fantasy to escape the grinding situation of
their current reality.
Unfortunately until people face the heart is where everything matters in the
believer they will never realise Gods power at work within them.

...people are often overcome with sinful
passions and encourage and dwell in fantasy to escape the grinding situation of
their current reality.

That statement identifies the problem, and the context shows the solution. Excellent. Very much needed. Thank you PJ.

 

[PeterJens]

The Bible tells us to guard our hearts. I often like to point that out when talking with other Christians
The world tells us to follow our hearts, the Lord tells us to guard our hearts.
I definitely think its far better to guard your heart, and not just follow wherever it leads you to : p

I agree our hearts is a difficult area, because it is who we are and our history.

On an emotional scale what made me realise something dramatic was a course someone
recommended on cc with regard to anxiety. Being anxious.

I listen to the woman who gave the course. Her story was anxiousness had taken over
her life. She had drugs, ect treatment, counselling, laying on of hands, everything, but
nothing made any difference, until a simple reality dawned.

Emotions are just emotions. They have their place and tell you something to take note
of, but that is all they are. It turned out she had defined herself by her feelings.
So when she got anxious, she got anxious about being anxious and got into a full blown
panic attack.

What she learnt was allowing herself to feel things, and then stop. The feeling was a good
warning, but then when put into context, it went away.

People seem to deal with their hearts in the same way, a mystery not to be touched.
But Jesus came to set us free, to heal, to allow us to feel and have everything in its
proper place. There is literally nothing to fear in ones heart with Christ.

The opposite is true, with Christ our hearts become the powerhouse of blessing for others.

So scary is this idea, most believe Christ saved them, and they are as they are, take it or
leave it. Jesus is so much more than this. He came to give us life, real life, real relationships,
real communication, real conquering the heights and depths of this roller coaster ride.

This is why it is the kingdom of light from the kingdom of darkness. So why not begin to
switch on the light in your heart and let love come to reign.

 

[FreeNChrist]

In biblical terms the "heart" is the mind, emotions and will, not merely the emotions. It is the core of who we are, the fullness of our being.

 

[PeterJens]

In biblical terms the "heart" is the mind, emotions and will, not merely the emotions. It is the core of who we are, the fullness of our being.

I like to think of the heart is the true self within, not the projected self without.

The bigger the gap between the true self and the projected self the more disfunctional we are.

I have a suspicion without Christ we are just chaff, disorganised and disfunctional emotions,
ideas and ambitions, all fighting to get dominance.

Some loose who they are, and think they are what they show to others, but who they actually
are is a stranger even to themselves.

A woman was training to be a pastor, and one of the courses asked the people to go back to
their own experiences of their childhood on which to draw. They discovered they only knew
what others had experienced, and had ignored what they had felt, so had no reference points.
It made counselling impossible, because they could not talk someone through something, if in
one sense they had never been there themselves. They felt very lost as a result.

The answer was to start to honestly discover how they felt about everything and then find
themselves, and learn to love and accept the person they actually were.

So I know our hearts matter, because they are us.

 

[FreeNChrist]

I like to think of the heart is the true self within, not the projected self without.

The bigger the gap between the true self and the projected self the more disfunctional we are.

I have a suspicion without Christ we are just chaff, disorganised and disfunctional emotions,
ideas and ambitions, all fighting to get dominance.

Some loose who they are, and think they are what they show to others, but who they actually
are is a stranger even to themselves.

A woman was training to be a pastor, and one of the courses asked the people to go back to
their own experiences of their childhood on which to draw. They discovered they only knew
what others had experienced, and had ignored what they had felt, so had no reference points.
It made counselling impossible, because they could not talk someone through something, if in
one sense they had never been there themselves. They felt very lost as a result.

The answer was to start to honestly discover how they felt about everything and then find
themselves, and learn to love and accept the person they actually were.

So I know our hearts matter, because they are us.

Sorry, the answer is never how do I "feel", but what am I thinking. As those feelings are merely responding to what you are thinking.

 

[TraySir]

Sorry, the answer is never how do I "feel", but what am I thinking. As those feelings are merely responding to what you are thinking.

Free, I understand. But feelings produce thoughts just as thoughts produce feelings. You know where this is going. Negative feelings produces negatives thoughts. Likewise with positive thoughts. Round and round.

Maybe our feelings dominate whereas our thoughts, the more logical part, ought to be the governor in the whole matter. This aligns with Colossians 3.1,15.

 

[FreeNChrist]

Free, I understand. But feelings produce thoughts just as thoughts produce feelings. You know where this is going. Negative feelings produces negatives thoughts. Likewise with positive thoughts. Round and round.

Maybe our feelings dominate whereas our thoughts, the more logical part, ought to be the governor in the whole matter. This aligns with Colossians 3.1,15.

If you are feeling sad it's because you are thinking sad thoughts. If you are feeling scared, it's because you are thinking scary thoughts. Emotions are merely responders to what we are thinking. And emotions cannot distinguish between reality and fantasy. Which is why it is dangerous to function off of emotions.

 

[PeterJens]

Sorry, the answer is never how do I "feel", but what am I thinking. As those feelings are merely responding to what you are thinking.

The funny thing is it can be proven people feel first then justify the feeling from their thoughts.
CBT counselling demonstrates how emotions can be used to modify how we experience life.

And you will find thoughts are linked to various emotional experiences but the links are not
concrete. They can come from the context of where the subject was first thought of,
connections with people and situations. Some doctors have found we have two different
memories, an emotional one and a factual one. People who cannot recall factual information
can recall emotional feelings associated with individuals but they do not know why.

A lot of mental illness is the emotions appear for no known reason, and the brain tries to
create meaning around the response. Equally if something scares you, ones first response
is fear, not thinking fearful thoughts that generate fear.

Often the emotional response can be modified by thinking the situation through and putting
it into context. I remember being scared when I first started work but this dulled as I got used
to the environment and what was really the problem and what was not.

 

[FreeNChrist]

The funny thing is it can be proven people feel first then justify the feeling from their thoughts.
CBT counselling demonstrates how emotions can be used to modify how we experience life.

And you will find thoughts are linked to various emotional experiences but the links are not
concrete. They can come from the context of where the subject was first thought of,
connections with people and situations. Some doctors have found we have two different
memories, an emotional one and a factual one. People who cannot recall factual information
can recall emotional feelings associated with individuals but they do not know why.

A lot of mental illness is the emotions appear for no known reason, and the brain tries to
create meaning around the response. Equally if something scares you, ones first response
is fear, not thinking fearful thoughts that generate fear.

Often the emotional response can be modified by thinking the situation through and putting
it into context. I remember being scared when I first started work but this dulled as I got used
to the environment and what was really the problem and what was not.

The key is in how a man "thinks" in his heart, not in how a man "feels" in his heart. (Prov. 23:7)

 

[PeterJens]

The key is in how a man "thinks" in his heart, not in how a man "feels" in his heart. (Prov. 23:7)

Lets get real. The lusts of the heart are not thought through ideas, they are raw desire
and emotion, and appear as part of our humanity.

Being nice, when you get angry with someone, it is because you thought through an idea
and not just you got annoyed and you are not sure why?

A classic situation after a hard day a work is a short temper. But that is just because you
have short temper thoughts? lol.

Why is this like a kids playground on the emotions of the heart? Maybe because you are children
in this aspect of life, and are just ruled by how you feel and have always repressed everything and
only let out things in a very controlled way, which is a more realistic picture than this artificial emotions
are only linked to thoughts. A baby cries because it feels upset, it does not even know why.
It is the parent who has to work it out, and sort it out for them.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Jer 17: 9 The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked, who can know

end of story

 

[MattforJesus]

We cannot have a relaxed position when we are with Christ,and while people will make excuses,there is no excuse.

Abstain from sin,and there is no excuse for why we cannot.

A Spirit led life will abstain from sin,and that is because the person sincerely,and honestly,do not want to sin,and hates sin,and by the Spirit they can abstain from sin,because the works of the Spirit are there,and not works of the flesh.

A person that says we cannot abstain from sin when living for Christ,is saying that the Spirit does not have the power to cause us to act like Christ,which we have the same power available to us,the Holy Spirit,like a person that says God chooses who will be saved,and not saved,in the beginning,and we have no choice about it,is saying that God is evil for condemning people that have no choice but to be lost,and His kingdom is not love.

People should think about what they say and believe,and the Bible says that at the last days there would be many blasphemers,which is attributing something evil to God,when He is good,and God said He wants all to be saved,and anybody can have that salvation,and He is no respecter of persons.

People who say we cannot abstain from sin,have a form of godliness,but deny the power thereof,for sins is what separates us from God,and they do not realize the truth that we have to abstain from sins,which the Bible addresses the saints and says,whatever a person reaps,that will they sow,do not be deceived.

If people hold unto sin the Bible says the blood of Christ cannot wash it it away,like God will not swoop down and take your car,for you do not want to give it up.

Not only is it wrong,but dangerous,to believe that it is not possible to abstain from sin,for they will hold unto sin to their hurt if they do not understand the truth,and it is not hard to abstain from sin,for all you have to do is say,I do not want sin,and mean it,and let the Holy Spirit give you the power to do so,which the temptation will be lessened in a saint's life compared to the world,so they can endure it easier than the world,and God will give them an escape from the temptation.

The heart is deceitful,but when people believe we cannot abstain from sin,despite confessing Christ,and being able to receive the Spirit,has already lost the battle,for they will hold unto sin for they feel they cannot beat it.

If their attitude is,I know it is wrong to sin,and I am not right with God when I sin,and I know I have to abstain from sin,but they do sin,at least they will know it is wrong,but to say we cannot abstain from sin as if it is not possible is dangerous,and they lost the battle,for they will sin and think it is alright,for they do not think they can overcome it.

 

[Grace777x70]

Man's heart was corrupted with the mystery of iniquity that entered into man-kind through Adam's transgression and it is passed on through the blood which is one of the reasons why Jesus had to be born from the Holy Spirit to by-pass the blood of man contaminating Him.

In the OT man's heart was desperately wicked because people were still "in Adam". The heart is the old man that was in Adam but now that Christ has came - we believers have a new heart. We have a new man of the heart now in Christ.

Get this wrong and we create a doctrine of a "new evolution" instead of a new creation in Christ. We create an works-based humanistic mindset that actually denies the work of the Lord Jesus Christ. It creates a self-righteousness mindset and belief system that thinks they need to create and maintain their own righteousness.

In the next post I will show that believers in Christ have a new heart now. I believe the understanding of this is vital to growing up in the Lord. We need to get our "identity" correct.

 

[Grace777x70]

All born-again Christians are pure in heart. It's the same reason why all water is wet. It's the very nature of it.

Thank God that the gospel of the grace of Christ has given us believers a new heart which is pure because it is in Christ!

I believe that scripture teaches that we have new hearts now in Christ as a new creation in Him. Before Jesus died on the cross and rose again to make us new creations in Him - the heart of man was corrupt and Jesus said that all kinds of bad stuff came out of it.

In the Old Testament David cried out prophetically - looking into this New Covenant and sais - "Create in me a clean heart O God". Jesus Himself says to "clean up the inside of the cup and the vessel will be clean".

We don't need to search our hearts for wrong things - we need to have our minds renewed to the truth of Christ living in us now.

It's the flesh that "speaks" to us as all the "works" in Gal 5 are from the flesh. We are not "in the flesh" as Paul says in Romans 8:9 - but we are "in the Spirit" - our inner man in Christ.

We need as Christians to learn to live from this new heart that was "created" in us because of Christ's finished work for us.

I firmly believe we are confusing the "desires of the flesh which still has the law of sin in it" ( Romans 7:23 ) and wrongly calling it our heart.

We have been circumcised with the circumcision of the heart - called the circumcision of Christ and the body of flesh. Col 2:11. This is also called "being sealed by the Holy Spirit" Eph 1:13

The Holy Spirit "cut away" ( as in physical circumcision ) the body of the flesh from the inner man who is in Christ - the new creation - created in righteousness and holiness. Eph 4:23

Here are the reasons why I believe we Christians have a new heart now in Christ and not a corrupted heart. We need to learn how to live from this new heart which is where Christ is in us as one spirit by the Holy Spirit.

The believers new heart in Christ is created in righteousness and holiness: First it was prophesied in the Old Testament.

Ezekiel 36:26 (NASB)
[SUP]26 [/SUP] "Moreover, I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; and I will remove the heart of stone ( old man ) from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. ( new man in Christ )


Romans 2:29 (NASB)
[SUP]29 [/SUP] But he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that which is of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the letter; and his praise is not from men, but from God.

By grace we have been given a new heart that is obedient.

Romans 6:17 (NASB)
[SUP]17 [/SUP] But thanks be to God that though you were slaves of sin, you became obedient from the heart to that form of teaching to which you were committed,

God cleaned house and moved in. God will not dwell in unrighteousness. God through the Holy Spirit is in our inner man now.

Ephesians 3:16-17 (NASB)
[SUP]16 [/SUP] that He would grant you, according to the riches of His glory, to be strengthened with power through His Spirit in the inner man,

[SUP]17 [/SUP] so that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith; and that you, being rooted and grounded in love,

God sealed us and gave us the Holy Spirit in our new hearts.

2 Corinthians 1:22 (NASB)
[SUP]22 [/SUP] who also sealed us and gave us the Spirit in our hearts as a pledge.

We have the Spirit of God's Son in our hearts now.

Galatians 4:6 (NASB)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] Because you are sons, God has sent forththe Spirit of His Son into our hearts, crying, "Abba! Father!"

God has cleansed our hearts by faith.

Acts 15:8-9 (NASB)
[SUP]8 [/SUP] "And God, who knows the heart, testified to them giving them the Holy Spirit, just as He also did to us;

[SUP]9 [/SUP] and He made no distinction between us and them, cleansing their hearts by faith.

We love from our hearts now as it is pure.

1 Timothy 1:5 (NASB)
[SUP]5 [/SUP] But the goal of our instruction is love from a pure heart and a good conscience and a sincere faith.

2 Timothy 2:22 (NASB)
[SUP]22 [/SUP] Now flee from youthful lusts and pursue righteousness, faith, love and peace, with those who call on the Lord from a pure heart. (this is a believer in Christ..hang around them )

1 Peter 3:4 (NASB)
[SUP]4 [/SUP] but let it be the hidden person of the heart, with the imperishable quality of a gentle and quiet spirit, which is precious in the sight of God.

There are more but this should work to show that the believer has a new heart in Christ.

We still have the flesh to deal with in our bodies and we are admonished to not to yield to that...but all that is a different subject.

 

[PeterJens]

All born-again Christians are pure in heart.

This is a very odd statement and not proven in peoples experience.

People are very much contaminated and impure in their hearts unless they repent
and purify their hearts, their thoughts, their focus, and how they dwell on sin.

Now I wish everyone was pure as you claim, but one reason why there is so much
angst is because people find this is not true or automatic.

 

[PeterJens]

What we inherit from Adam is our lack of communion with God.

That is enough to doom us to sin, and to bring us emnity between man and God.
Without Christs love in our hearts we are doomed.

It is why the issue of the heart is a salvation issue while many think they enter heaven
because of faith or belief in Jesus, and not as a result they open up their hearts in full
submission and obedience to the King, ready to be forgiven, purified and made whole.

So much false teaching brings concepts but does not apply the truth to the heart and
so is worthless.

If you have not love in your heart you cannot obey either of the two greatest commandments
and so are lost.

But in Christ there is always hope, to repent and humble yourself before the cross and the King
and believe on Him for the forgiveness of your sins.

 

[PeterJens]

The Lord saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every intention of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.
Gen 6:5

The tongue of the righteous is choice silver; the heart of the wicked is of little worth.
Prov 10:20

The heart of the righteous ponders how to answer, but the mouth of the wicked pours out evil things.
Prov 15:28

Blessed are the pure in heart, for they shall see God.
Matt 5:8

For out of the heart come evil thoughts, murder, adultery, sexual immorality, theft, false witness, slander. 20 These are what defile a person.
Matt 15:19-20

You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.
Matt 22:37

The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately sick
Jeremiah 17:9

So where is your corruption.
If the heart can be cleansed and bring forth good things for a righteous man
it cannot be corrupted in and of itself.

So I see no corruption, I see an inevitable rebellion against God because of
how it has been made to exist in communion with God, without which it
destroys itself and dies.

We inherit from Adam an aloneness, and separation from God that will destroy
us inside.

The more we justify ourselves and our sinful acts and intentions the more it will
decay and destroy us.

One of the first lessons we learn is to pretend something to get attention,
lying, to manipulate. Once we go down this road it is difficult to stop.

Now if Jesus could not save our hearts and straighten us out, what is the point
of the witness of the church, or walking in the light, or over overcoming sin, and
being a good example if we have overcome nothing.
So the heart must be capable of being purified and set true to God and righteousness.

We could not love God with a corrupt heart, because that would be dishonouring Him.
The cross purifies us from all unrighteousness, including our hearts.

If we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus his Son cleanses us from all sin.
1 John 1:7

 

[Grace777x70]

Without being pure in heart - no one will see God. Christ alone makes us pure - we don't make ourselves pure. We are a new creation.

God has cleansed our hearts by faith.

Acts 15:8-9 (NASB)
[SUP]8 [/SUP] "And God, who knows the heart, testified to them giving them the Holy Spirit, just as He also did to us;

[SUP]9 [/SUP] and He made no distinction between us and them, cleansing their hearts by faith.

Godliness is different then having a pure heart because Christ has made us righteous by His finished work on the cross and resurrection - that we too died with Him on the cross and have been raised with Him to newness of life joined as one spirit with Him forever.

Godliness is the manifestation of the life of Christ in and through us. This is seen in our outward behavior.

Transformation/godliness is really the emerging new man that is in Christ being manifested in our bodies while we are here on this earth.

This transformation of what already is in us in Christ in our new creation ( It is not called a "new evolution" ) can be seen by man as our minds get renewed to the truth of Christ's work for us. Rom. 12:2

We are simply "being" who we already are when we "put on Christ".

The new man in Christ is like the invisible man - when he put clothes on, people could then see him. We put on Christ and people see the new man in Christ manifested and God gets glorified.

This all happens by grace through faith in what Christ has done and we participate in it with Him for it is God who is at work in us both to will and to do of His good pleasure. He will be faithful to us. Phil. 2:13