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Thread: Why im not a calvinist (but want to be)

  1. #61
    Senior Member notmyown's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why im not a calvinist (but want to be)

    Quote Originally Posted by Locutus View Post
    "Whatever τεταγμενοι may mean, which is the word we translate ordained, it is neither προτεταγμενοι nor προορισμενοι which the apostle uses, but simply τεταγμενοι, "

    Just looking a the Scott-Liddell on the above words that Adam Clarke mentions:


    προτεταγμενοι

    I.to place or post in front, πρ. σφῶν αὐτῶν Ἀστύμαχον put him at their head, as speaker, Thuc.:—Mid., προετάξατο τῆς φάλαγγοςτοὺς ἱππέας he posted his horse in front of it, Xen.:— Pass. to stand before one, so as to protect, Aesch.; τὸ προταχθέν, οἱπροτεταγμένοι the front ranks, van, Xen.

    II.generally, to appoint or determine beforehand, χρόνον Soph.






    hey, thanks! though i lean toward Thayer's explanation, i'm okay with "believed".

    there's only One Way anyone can believe.
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  2. #62


    DJ2
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    Default Re: Why im not a calvinist (but want to be)

    Quote Originally Posted by preacher4truth View Post
    All the saved are chosen or they wouldn't be saved. But you don't know Scripture, right, which is why in ignorance you hold disdain for God's decrees and His electing grace?
    I do not want to here from the saved (chosen) I want to hear from those who understand Calvin's reasoning but realize they are not chosen. Why is this so hard to understand. It is a simple request, is it not? Also, you and depleted are rather harsh, does this question offend you.

  3. #63
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    Default Re: Why im not a calvinist (but want to be)

    Quote Originally Posted by Locutus View Post
    Act 13:48 When the Gentiles heard this, they were glad and honored the word of the Lord; and all who were appointed for eternal life believed.

    I'm no Greek expert, but when we consider that there was some doubt about the Gentiles being included in the promises to Israel is it not possible that it could be translated in such as manner:
    Doubt by Luke? He was a Gentile himself and went around with Paul. He had no doubt that the Gentiles were included in the promises.

    Act 13:48 When the Gentiles heard this, they were glad and honored the word of the Lord; and all who believed were appointed for eternal life.

    Makes much more sense.
    LOL we can all change the Scriptures to suit our doctrine. But few as blatantly as that.
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    Senior Member maxwel's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why im not a calvinist (but want to be)

    Why I'm not a Calvinist.


    I'm not a Calvinist because:

    late at night when I have trouble sleeping...

    I'd have less people to argue with.
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    Default Re: Why im not a calvinist (but want to be)

    Quote Originally Posted by Issachar92 View Post
    Great post, and i must say this is a great verse, hard to get around that.
    But isnt God repenting of his judgment on nineveh kind of pointless if He was the one who granted nineveh that repentance to begin with?
    God's truth is presented by men. On that basis the whole Bible is pointless. But God's purpose is to show on the one hand that He elects, and on the other He reacts to those elected.

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    DJ2
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    Default Re: Why im not a calvinist (but want to be)

    Quote Originally Posted by valiant View Post
    read the second part.
    My question stands. Does this mean there is hope for the non-chosen?

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    Default Re: Why im not a calvinist (but want to be)

    Quote Originally Posted by DJ2 View Post
    My question stands. Does this mean there is hope for the non-chosen?
    Let me help you. The elect are those whom God saves. therefore those who are non-elect are not saved. Got it?

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    Default Re: Why im not a calvinist (but want to be)

    Quote Originally Posted by Issachar92 View Post
    Great post, and i must say this is a great verse, hard to get around that.
    But isnt God repenting of his judgment on nineveh kind of pointless if He was the one who granted nineveh that repentance to begin with?
    He saved those people of Nineveh. He destroyed the city later when it was overrun by people he would not save. God has no regrets in saving people. No regrets in not saving people either. (He wraths over the ones he won't save.) He chose whom he would save, and out of that group, he saved every single one.
    Lynn

    Still woman, but no lady.

    And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good, for those who are called according to his purpose. Rom. 8:28

  9. #69
    Senior Member 1ofthem's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why im not a calvinist (but want to be)

    Quote Originally Posted by DJ2 View Post
    You are one of the most judgmental persons I have met. Why are you coming out just at me. Trofimus said he not only believes they exist but has ministered to them. I don't see why you would come after me four times in this short thread and not Torfimus. I have been told that these people exist and logically it seems they must. Also, why can a un-chosen person not be able to see the logic of John Calvin, he was a clear and reasonable writer. Anyone, chosen or not should with a open mind see this. Unless you believe that accepting Calvinist theology is the litmus test for election. If this is the case, say it. If not stop mocking those who would like to hear the other side.
    Don't feel bad. Apparently, that is the only way some folks here know how to have a discussion.

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    Default Re: Why im not a calvinist (but want to be)

    Quote Originally Posted by Issachar92 View Post
    Good point the be ye perfect, that surely is impossible, unless we are willing to drop the level of perfection pretty low
    As for the atonement thing, the atonement was made for everyoen but only becomes effective once people humble themselves and repent. As was in the old testament, they made a sacrifice and people had to humble themselves.
    Might want to take a refresher course in what happened to the people who were to give that sacrifice and then humble themselves. Many didn't. God slaughtered them. Even then the atonement was of the ones God chose.
    Lynn

    Still woman, but no lady.

    And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good, for those who are called according to his purpose. Rom. 8:28

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    Default Re: Why im not a calvinist (but want to be)

    Quote Originally Posted by DJ2 View Post
    You are one of the most judgmental persons I have met. Why are you coming out just at me. Trofimus said he not only believes they exist but has ministered to them. I don't see why you would come after me four times in this short thread and not Torfimus. I have been told that these people exist and logically it seems they must. Also, why can a un-chosen person not be able to see the logic of John Calvin, he was a clear and reasonable writer. Anyone, chosen or not should with a open mind see this. Unless you believe that accepting Calvinist theology is the litmus test for election. If this is the case, say it. If not stop mocking those who would like to hear the other side.
    Trofimus is giving what Issa asked for. Help about understanding Calvinism. You alone are doing the opposite -- making it all about what you want, not about what Issa wants. You don't want "the other side." I know this because you want "the other side" specifically from someone who does not exist.

    I've got no problems you asking for that, (even though we both know you'll never get it.) I have problems with you hijacking someone else's thread. Start your own! You're taking the french fries off Issa's plate and pretending you deserve them more than he does and you own them. I'm telling you to get your own plate of fries, not to not ask. Yes, I'm judging you. You're RUDE!

    If this was really a case of you taking his fries? By now I'd be stabbing your hand in the table to stop you from stealing his fries. There HIS fries. This is HIS thread!

    And now? Now I have to stab my own hand into the table for dealing with this in such a way that I too am contributing to hijacking his thread.

    My apologies, Issa.

    AND, does anyone have a big band-aid or two?
    Lynn

    Still woman, but no lady.

    And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good, for those who are called according to his purpose. Rom. 8:28

  12. #72


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    Default Re: Why im not a calvinist (but want to be)

    Quote Originally Posted by valiant View Post
    Let me help you. The elect are those whom God saves. therefore those who are non-elect are not saved. Got it?
    I totally understand that the elect are saved, case closed. My question is about those who God did not pick out first. In other words, will God have any mercy on the day of judgment for those who were not tapped or are the un-chosen judged already and denied mercy.

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    Senior Member Depleted's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why im not a calvinist (but want to be)

    Quote Originally Posted by maxwel View Post
    Why I'm not a Calvinist.


    I'm not a Calvinist because:

    late at night when I have trouble sleeping...

    I'd have less people to argue with.
    In that case...

    Why I am a Calvinist.

    Because late at night (or early in the morning), when I can't sleep, I'd rather argue with people than shoot the freaking robin birdsonging out the blasted window reminding me that I could NOT sleep all night.
    Lynn

    Still woman, but no lady.

    And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good, for those who are called according to his purpose. Rom. 8:28

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    Senior Member Spokenpassage's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why im not a calvinist (but want to be)

    Quote Originally Posted by Issachar92 View Post
    Great post, and i must say this is a great verse, hard to get around that.
    But isnt God repenting of his judgment on nineveh kind of pointless if He was the one who granted nineveh that repentance to begin with?
    God ordained sending his prophet to warn them as his means, just as he does with us. If we were not warned by the law, how would we know we are in need of Christ? So if we use this line of thinking you brought up, it would seem pointless to reveal our sin by the law and revealing the gospel when he could of had us repented regardless. But God has ordained the law as the means to revealing our corruption and the gospel to save us, just as he used the prophet to warn the people of Ninevah. I hope this helps.

    Edit: had to fix some typos and such.
    Last edited by Spokenpassage; 2 Days Ago at 02:02 PM.
    "My beloved is mine, and I am his." - Song of Songs 2:16

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    Senior Member Issachar92's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why im not a calvinist (but want to be)

    Quote Originally Posted by Spokenpassage View Post
    God ordained sending his prophet to warn them as his means, just as he does with us. If we were not warned by the law, how would we know we are in need of Christ? So if we use this line of thinking you brought up, it would seem pointless to reveal our sin by the law and revealing the gospel when he could of had us repented regardless. But God has ordained the law as the means to revealing our corruption and the gospel to save us, just as he used the prophet to earn the people of Ninevah. I hope this helps.

    If ive understood calvinism correctly, repentance is not something a man can do, its a gift given by God correct?
    now, why does God get mad when people dont repent? if He is the one who can only give them repentance. i feel like the "T" in TULIP completely demolishes everything, nothing has no point.

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    Default Re: Why im not a calvinist (but want to be)

    Quote Originally Posted by DJ2 View Post
    I totally understand that the elect are saved, case closed. My question is about those who God did not pick out first. In other words, will God have any mercy on the day of judgment for those who were not tapped or are the un-chosen judged already and denied mercy.
    ALL men were initially condemned. The elect are they, and they only, whom God chooses to save.

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    Default Re: Why im not a calvinist (but want to be)

    Quote Originally Posted by Issachar92 View Post
    If ive understood calvinism correctly, repentance is not something a man can do, its a gift given by God correct?
    now, why does God get mad when people dont repent? if He is the one who can only give them repentance. i feel like the "T" in TULIP completely demolishes everything, nothing has no point.
    All men are called to repent. But they refuse. God is therefore angry with all. The elect are those to whom God gave the gift of repentance unto life. His anger has been propitiated.

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    Senior Member Spokenpassage's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why im not a calvinist (but want to be)

    Quote Originally Posted by Issachar92 View Post
    If ive understood calvinism correctly, repentance is not something a man can do, its a gift given by God correct?
    now, why does God get mad when people dont repent? if He is the one who can only give them repentance. i feel like the "T" in TULIP completely demolishes everything, nothing has no point.
    Man cannot because he does not want to. His inability to come to repentance is because his nature is twisted to want what is contrary to God. Our Lord in no way is wrong in punishing someone who does not want to repent, and he is not unfair in giving some a gift, because gifts are freely given and not an entitlement.

    Since the gospel remains unknown in some places in the world, how is our Savior being fair in condemning them without a way of escape? He is not obligated to give anyone anything, and they rightfully deserve judgement for their sins.
    "My beloved is mine, and I am his." - Song of Songs 2:16

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    Default Re: Why im not a calvinist (but want to be)

    Quote Originally Posted by valiant View Post
    ALL men were initially condemned. The elect are they, and they only, whom God chooses to save.
    Could you please give me a yes or no answer and then your comments.

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    Default Re: Why im not a calvinist (but want to be)

    Quote Originally Posted by Spokenpassage View Post
    Man cannot because he does not want to. His inability to come to repentance is because his nature is twisted to want what is contrary to God. Our Lord in no way is wrong in punishing someone who does not want to repent, and he is not unfair in giving some a gift, because gifts are freely given and not an entitlement.

    Since the gospel remains unknown in some places in the world, how is our Savior being fair in condemning them without a way of escape? He is not obligated to give anyone anything, and they rightfully deserve judgement for their sins.
    Its true He isnt obigated to give anyone anything, but in His grace HE HAS given us a lot of things! Including a WHOSOEVER WILL come to me. Repent and believe! and the ability to do so. I think this is very clear, i just cant get away from the simplicity of such message, why over complicate things with theological terms i dont get it.

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