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Thread: Pharisees and arrogance

  1. #21
    Senior Member dcontroversal's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pharisees and arrogance

    Quote Originally Posted by Grace777x70 View Post
    I will not speak for others but I have been called many times by the author of the OP - demonic, satanic, delusional, a lover of sinning, a hater of those that walk in righteousness. Anyone who has been on here for the last year and a half will testify to this.

    Now, I just ignore this and don't directly interact with this type of behavior anymore but I bring this up so that the truth can come out so that people can be helped. I don't hold it against him because it is obvious - he can't help it. We all need the Lord's grace to walk out of the things that have us in it's hold.

    We all can get caught up in malice and bitterness and none of us are exempt from this possibility.

    I too like preacher4truth pray that the Lord open Peter's eyes to see the righteousness that only comes to us by grace through faith in Christ. The fruit of this righteousness will then come and be legitimate fruit from the life of God in us.

    Until then, we can post what we believe is the truth about the gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ and if people get offended because they identify with what this gospel exposes - then that is a good thing.

    The Lord will be faithful to all of us to give us what we individually need to walk in the freedom that Jesus bought for us with His blood and life.
    I agree with this post and am witness to this as well...........

  2. #22
    Senior Member PeterJens's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pharisees and arrogance

    Quote Originally Posted by preacher4truth View Post
    your self-righteousness
    p4t - you are saying I am a troll, I am falsely accusing people, I am working for the enemy.

    This is a heavy list to bring to me and put at my door.

    Please tell me what I have got it wrong or lied?
    I have not said any one person has held these opinions though I have experienced these
    words spoken.

    If you cannot put a opposite proposition, and shown me I am wrong, then you have to
    accept I am right.

    Now this must be hard for you, because something in these words challenges you to your
    core, else you would not be responding as you are.

    Now your shield is your faith. Your armour is your righteousness. Your helmet is your salvation.
    Have I cut through this all and you are mortally wounded. Only God can do this, my friend,
    so seek His face and repent and He will forgive you.
    I share "Jesus Christ and him crucified" 1 cor 2:2
    "He gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ." 1 cor 15:57

    The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you

  3. #23
    Senior Member PeterJens's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pharisees and arrogance

    Quote Originally Posted by Grace777x70 View Post
    I will not speak for others but I personally have been called many times by the author of the OP - demonic, satanic, delusional, a lover of sinning, a hater of those that walk in righteousness.
    I have not called you demonic or satanic, a lover of sinning.

    Some of the group certainly have.
    Delusional and someone who hates those who want to walk righteously I have said.

    I do not call people satanic or demonic because I do not know of such things and
    never want to get into this insane spiritualisation of beliefs and convictions.

    But I know this does not mean anything to you in reality, knowing the animosity you
    hold me in, lol. At least I never called you a gracey greaser lol.

    The funny thing is I have not raised the issue of name calling or of all out personal
    warfare but it appears you are showing your true colours here, thankyou.

    God bless you.

    ps you chose to come here and put you personal attacks and not address the
    points I am making which means you are doing exactly what Christ predicted.
    I share "Jesus Christ and him crucified" 1 cor 2:2
    "He gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ." 1 cor 15:57

    The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you

  4. #24
    Senior Member PeterJens's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pharisees and arrogance

    Quote Originally Posted by dcontroversal View Post
    I agree with this post and am witness to this as well...........
    dc - you do make me laugh.

    I have always be surprised by you full out attacks, but at least you are
    happy in your approach. Wonder what will happen to you when God
    turns the tables in your life.
    I share "Jesus Christ and him crucified" 1 cor 2:2
    "He gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ." 1 cor 15:57

    The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you

  5. #25
    Senior Member PeterJens's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pharisees and arrogance

    Quote Originally Posted by dcontroversal View Post
    If your going to quote me....give the whole quote or be found deceptive......! Satan was deceptive!
    dc - you show your insanity. You are putting a label on something, a name and saying
    this is the root evil. You then are associating the points with the label.

    You then are saying when I show what you are doing, it is so deceptive. crazy, literally
    I share "Jesus Christ and him crucified" 1 cor 2:2
    "He gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ." 1 cor 15:57

    The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you

  6. #26
    Senior Member PeterJens's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pharisees and arrogance

    As a simple point, why did g7 and dc come here?

    To slag me off and bring a list of accusations against me? Yes.

    But who are they defending? And why are they defending anyone?

    Of the list I have mentioned is there anything worthy of defence or
    is it all true?

    If it is all true, then the sentence has been passed, the accused found guilty
    and they are hereby rejected.

    And boy would this make them mad, to bring light to the sin, slander, failure that
    is passed off as the work of God.
    I share "Jesus Christ and him crucified" 1 cor 2:2
    "He gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ." 1 cor 15:57

    The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you

  7. #27
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    Default Re: Pharisees and arrogance

    This thread, along with some other threads must have been made by folks from Bickerville.
    Ariel82, PeterJens and Grace777x70 like this.
    My restless, roaming spirit would not allow me to remain at home very long.

    -
    Buffalo Bill

  8. #28
    Senior Member PeterJens's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pharisees and arrogance

    Let me be frank with you dear reader.

    Read the op.

    Show me I am wrong. I have read it and still there is nothing I can fault.
    So why is anyone disagreeing?

    If you cannot disagree but it hurts you, humble yourself before the King and seek
    His ways.

    Now I know there are different spiritual experiences here, but this is not childs games
    or something minor. This is life and death, heaven and hell, the enemy and the Holy Spirit.

    Now those most vehemently opposed have turned up, but with no answer.
    So it is in your court to put your confidence in Christ and the cross and walking in righteousness
    or faith and grace, with some vague ideas about what forgiveness is.
    I share "Jesus Christ and him crucified" 1 cor 2:2
    "He gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ." 1 cor 15:57

    The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you

  9. #29
    Senior Member dcontroversal's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pharisees and arrogance

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterJens View Post
    dc - you do make me laugh.

    I have always be surprised by you full out attacks, but at least you are
    happy in your approach. Wonder what will happen to you when God
    turns the tables in your life.
    Did I address you with this post....nope....and for those who know you and see the things you post....it becomes all too obvious!

  10. #30
    Senior Member dcontroversal's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pharisees and arrogance

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterJens View Post
    dc - you show your insanity. You are putting a label on something, a name and saying
    this is the root evil. You then are associating the points with the label.

    You then are saying when I show what you are doing, it is so deceptive. crazy, literally

    Here, try again and read it this time.....it points to the evil they had in them that was coming out in the list a-f amongst other such activities....

    Originally Posted by dcontroversal Tragic hey.....the root evil found in Pharisees...

    a. Thanking God they were not like the sinners around them.......
    b. Pushing self righteousness......
    c. Pushing a works based salvation......
    d. Self serving public prayers.....
    e. Appearing to be righteous outwardly....
    f. Having a little truth blended in with their error so as to appear righteous

    YEP.....he has all the above! Some of his cohorts do as well........this thread should be....A Pharisee Accuses Others of Being A Pharisee.............

  11. #31
    Senior Member dcontroversal's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pharisees and arrogance

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterJens View Post
    As a simple point, why did g7 and dc come here?

    To slag me off and bring a list of accusations against me? Yes.

    But who are they defending? And why are they defending anyone?

    Of the list I have mentioned is there anything worthy of defence or
    is it all true?

    If it is all true, then the sentence has been passed, the accused found guilty
    and they are hereby rejected.

    And boy would this make them mad, to bring light to the sin, slander, failure that
    is passed off as the work of God.
    All of this is moot....I came in to see what you had written....you and your pals are sure quick to judge motive...a sin within itself!

  12. #32
    Senior Member PeterJens's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pharisees and arrogance

    Quote Originally Posted by dcontroversal View Post
    All of this is moot....I came in to see what you had written....you and your pals are sure quick to judge motive...a sin within itself!
    Your contribution is to list a description of what you think
    specifies a pharisee.

    Unfortunately as I pointed out this classes all christians as
    pharisees, but obviously this is not a problem to you.

    It must be what you actually mean, God help you.
    I share "Jesus Christ and him crucified" 1 cor 2:2
    "He gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ." 1 cor 15:57

    The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you

  13. #33
    Senior Member dcontroversal's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pharisees and arrogance

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterJens View Post
    Your contribution is to list a description of what you think
    specifies a pharisee.

    Unfortunately as I pointed out this classes all christians as
    pharisees, but obviously this is not a problem to you.

    It must be what you actually mean, God help you.
    No...Unfortunately, you do not understand English very well....the Pharisees had specific sins that they portrayed and I labeled most of them which you reject....I never applied this to any Christian denomination as that was your embellishment....regardless....ALL who exhibit these traits are doing and saying things that are comparable to what the Pharisees were doing.....so.......you know....numerous people have seen these traits in you by the things you say, post and your very attitude and approach to the word.....like the ole saying....if the boot fits!

  14. #34
    Senior Member PeterJens's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pharisees and arrogance

    How lost is a believer?
    a) ignores Jesus's words and intent - not interested in Christ as Lord and Saviour
    b) boasts in their sin - is in open rebellion against Christ
    c) condemns people who walk righteously - takes on satans walk
    d) believes God will give them their worldly dreams - desires the worlds ways
    e) ignores their heart and emotions - rejects that sin comes from the heart
    f) is arrogant and lying to those who oppose them - has no limits or respect
    g) does not know the cross and sorrow at its foot - does not understand repentance
    h) redefines all the meanings of core Christian words - wants a new faith
    I) is fine abusing others and trying to break them - dedicated at attacking believers
    j) believes no one can fall from grace but the enemy never knew Him - arrogance of salvation
    k) nothing emotional touches them, or they can relate to - a hard heart without any insight
    l) everything stays the same, or gets worse - a testimony to a fallen state

    Now the above is a simple description of what some have demonstrated in their lives or worse.
    If this is what Christ intended through the cross He would never have come.

    I think the rot is so deep some feel to expose the truth will just mean the church is empty,
    but they are just unbelievers who do not know Christ or who He is.

    Faith is about having life and love in your heart and following Christ in a righteous loving
    walk.

    Those who do not believe this either have never come to Christ or have never been
    discipled.

    It is little wonder the church is not in revival if this is the state of the members of
    churches and this is the most enthusiastic bunch that can be dredged up.

    Bow before the King in repentance and grief that so few know what it means to follow
    Him. In the past God has taken away the candle stick from such as these.
    I share "Jesus Christ and him crucified" 1 cor 2:2
    "He gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ." 1 cor 15:57

    The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you

  15. #35
    Senior Member Billyd's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pharisees and arrogance

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterJens View Post
    What lead me to create the list in the op was realising over the months of discussion
    what, point by point came out.

    If you had created this list in front of me, and asked me could such a person know
    Christ, I would have said, no, not a chance.

    Unless Christ speaks to you heart you have nothing.

    Now these individuals will say I am anti-Christ, I am insulting, slandering, evil, yet
    all I am doing is preaching Gods word. In their mind, the evil is saying by obeying
    Christ you are trying to justify yourself. So the log they wish to remove from their
    fellow believers eye is trying to justify yourself before God.

    They do not see this walk is the fulfillment of the cross and resurrection, so are condemning
    the very work of God on this earth.

    Jesus said this about such brotherly picking the log out of another,

    How can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye.
    Matt 7:4-5

    Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness, for they will be filled.
    Blessed are the pure in heart, for they will see God.
    Matt 5:6,8


    With a pure heart, with a desire to walk in righteousness, love, to wish the best
    on others and know the victory Christs brings to our hearts, then you can correct
    and uplift people.

    So many with sin in their hearts, unconfessed darkness distorting their words and
    approach wish to correct and guide others, yet literally they are just teaching error.

    And along with this error is condemnation, and condemnation to hell, based on their
    own false theology.

    And to be honest Christs words are also true

    Do not give dogs what is sacred; do not throw your pearls to pigs. If you do, they may trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you to pieces.
    Matt 7:6


    Do not expect anything nice from them or acceptance, only a continual stream
    of abuse, disdain, condescension, hatred, animosity and loathing.

    But look at what the are condemning? Righteous living.
    Who condemns the righteous? Satan.

    Jesus condemned sin, failure to be righteous, hypocracy, lack of love in the heart,
    not obeying God or following in His ways and rejecting His messengers.

    These men and women are blind to this reality, believing they are Gods chosen to
    oppress and root out the self righteous and those who condemn sin as sin.

    Quote of a hyper legalist :-
    "I don't know How a person can look at the rules. And see how often he fails to live up to those rules. and see them as a delight, it boggles my mind to see yourself as a winner when the rules keep exposing how sinful you are. it is beyond me, "

    The prison of self condemnation is anything about the self is sin.

    Quote of a hyper legalist :-
    "A man who confesses all his good deeds, How righteous he is, and how better he is then all the sinners, Is deluded, for he is the filthy dark sinner.. "

    This is a delusional statement. A sinner is a sinner because he sins, and it is his
    sins that needs dealing with. And a righteous person just loves, he does not take
    pride in what he is, because this is Christs work in His heart.

    What winds a sinner up most of all, is how dare anyone claim they can walk righteously,
    that is just a lie and impossible, a superior condemning know it all. So speaks all sinners
    of the world. But Jesus just says, know love and repent and accept my love in your heart.
    Peter, just one simple question. Please do not answer it with a rant about how wrong everyone else is, or how anyone else should answer it. The Sermon on the Mount is the words of Christ. In it he tells us what the Christian Life should be and how we should live it. It is one of the most read, and is most misunderstood passages in the entire Bible. Throughout the entire sermon one thing become evident. Man cannot become a Christian through his own effort.

    According to this sermon, how does man become a Christian?
    2 Peter 1:3 His divine power has granted to us all things that pertain to life and godliness, through the knowledge of him who called us to his own glory and excellence, 4 by which he has granted to us his precious and very great promises, so that through them we may become partakers of the divine nature, having escaped from the corruption that is in the world because of sinful desire. ESV

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    Default Re: Pharisees and arrogance

    The Pharisees were arrogant. And they fell, as the bible says pride goeth before a fall.
    Jesus' unique, authoritative claims and teachings, all which whose truth was confirmed by the prophets and the miracles of Jesus, were unable to pierce through the Pharisees lust for power and prestige, out of envy they delivered Him up.

    Though Jesus raised Lazarus from the dead, the Pharisees only sought all the more to kill Jesus. He had said as much, if they don't believe Moses and the prophets, neither will they believe one who was raised from the dead. And may I point out, neither will they believe one who raised the dead and who Himself was raised from the dead!

    Pharisees were arrogant. But not all. Paul the apostle was a Pharisee. He loved God. Of all the Pharisees, Paul was the one chosen by God. Why?

    Paul can be described as a sincere individual who operated in ignorance. Sincere? God chose Paul, the resurrected Lord appeared to Paul, and Paul believed. Ignorant? Ignorant concerning Jesus. Paul sincerely believed Jesus was a blasphemer.

    Cannot we not all ask...Where am I in all this?
    Am I as a Pharisee who sees, knows the truth, but refuses to acknowledge my error in any belief and accept the truth?
    Am I as Paul before He obeyed the gospel? Zealous toward God, but ignorant?

    How shall we know? Examine self, the heart.
    Study the scriptures - Moses and the Prophets - they give the prophecies of the Messiah.
    Open eyes, ears, mind. And read the record of Jesus' life. Compare what the gospels affirm of Him to the messianic prophecies of the OT prophets.
    And test the resurrection record in the gospels. Look at the claim: Jesus' tomb was empty on the third day.
    Ask: Was Jesus really dead after His crucifixion?!
    Ask: Who would dare to attempt to steal His body from a Roman sealed and guarded tomb?
    Ask: How many witnesses were there of the (supposed) risen Jesus? One, two, three? More than 400?

    Take the case to court! Put it on trial.

    Then comes the real test.
    Will you believe? Or is your heart Pharisaical? Or humble as Paul's?
    Last edited by TraySir; 4 Weeks Ago at 12:04 PM.
    PeterJens likes this.

  17. #37
    Senior Member PeterJens's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pharisees and arrogance

    Quote Originally Posted by Billyd View Post
    Peter, just one simple question. Please do not answer it with a rant about how wrong everyone else is, or how anyone else should answer it. The Sermon on the Mount is the words of Christ. In it he tells us what the Christian Life should be and how we should live it. It is one of the most read, and is most misunderstood passages in the entire Bible. Throughout the entire sermon one thing become evident. Man cannot become a Christian through his own effort.

    According to this sermon, how does man become a Christian?
    Well my friend, the sermon on the mount is about knowing God, and what you
    do in discipleship. It is not about how you come to have faith in Jesus.

    Your question is like asking someone who has an instruction manual about how
    to drive a car, and you ask where does it say how you get into the car?

    Not sure about the rant comment. lol.

    And Jesus preached "Repent, the kingdom of God is near."
    Matt 3:2

    "Produce fruit in keeping with repentance."
    Matt 3:8

    So you come to God through repentance.
    Before the cross we gained forgiveness of sins through the temple, but
    now it is through the cross.
    I share "Jesus Christ and him crucified" 1 cor 2:2
    "He gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ." 1 cor 15:57

    The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you

  18. #38
    Senior Member psalm6819's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pharisees and arrogance

    Your op sounds like an autobiography, Peter.
    dcontroversal likes this.

  19. #39
    Senior Member Billyd's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pharisees and arrogance

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterJens View Post
    Well my friend, the sermon on the mount is about knowing God, and what you
    do in discipleship. It is not about how you come to have faith in Jesus.

    Your question is like asking someone who has an instruction manual about how
    to drive a car, and you ask where does it say how you get into the car?

    Not sure about the rant comment. lol.

    And Jesus preached "Repent, the kingdom of God is near."
    Matt 3:2

    "Produce fruit in keeping with repentance."
    Matt 3:8

    So you come to God through repentance.
    Before the cross we gained forgiveness of sins through the temple, but
    now it is through the cross.
    It is only through Christ that we can live up to the standards of the Sermon on the Mount. The goal of every Christian should be to live up to these standards. The fact is that when we fail, Christ is always there to pick us up.
    PeterJens likes this.
    2 Peter 1:3 His divine power has granted to us all things that pertain to life and godliness, through the knowledge of him who called us to his own glory and excellence, 4 by which he has granted to us his precious and very great promises, so that through them we may become partakers of the divine nature, having escaped from the corruption that is in the world because of sinful desire. ESV

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    Senior Member preacher4truth's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pharisees and arrogance

    Quote Originally Posted by PrynceNY View Post
    It's not slandering if it is speaking the truth. Even God labeled those who say "there is no God" as fools
    Correct, slander is not stating the truth about the person.
    People are offended that God is God.

    Oh, my brethren! bold-hearted men are always called mean-spirited by cowards. - Charles Spurgeon

    I threw out the writings of Moses because he killed that Egyptian guy.

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