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Thread: Pharisees and arrogance

  1. #41
    Senior Member preacher4truth's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pharisees and arrogance

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterJens View Post
    Before the cross we gained forgiveness of sins through the temple, but
    now it is through the cross.
    I'm not surprised at the error of the above. Salvation and forgiveness of sins was always via grace and the cross.
    People are offended that God is God.

  2. #42
    Senior Member PeterJens's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pharisees and arrogance

    Quote Originally Posted by Billyd View Post
    It is only through Christ that we can live up to the standards of the Sermon on the Mount. The goal of every Christian should be to live up to these standards. The fact is that when we fail, Christ is always there to pick us up.
    Amen. Some years ago this got me thinking. Why does Jesus link himself to the bronze snake
    lifted up in the desert? Because when the people looked at it they were healed.

    So to picture Christ in our minds, to know Him dying on the cross heals us of the sin we commit,
    like the snake bite got healed in the Israelites.

    Having Christs love in our hearts, empowers us to walk and obey the sermon on the mount.
    Knowing God loves us, changes us inside, brings comfort. The bitterness and revenge desires
    pass away.
    I share "Jesus Christ and him crucified" 1 cor 2:2
    "He gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ." 1 cor 15:57

    The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you

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    Default Re: Pharisees and arrogance

    M. Seeing the faults in others and condemning them (denying they could be saved by the blood of Christ and attacking them) while pretending to be a victim.

    ****

    Don't pretend to be innocent, when by your own words you would crucify others instead of love and forgive and bless.

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    Default Re: Pharisees and arrogance

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterJens View Post
    How lost is a believer?
    a) ignores Jesus's words and intent
    not a believer. Do you stand as an accuser of someone in this forum?

    b) boasts in their sin
    c) condemns people who walk righteously
    straw man, no one believes this and I am tired of you accusing people of doing so.

    d) believes God will give them their worldly dreams
    okay we do have that in the prosperity false gospel, but not that many post in support of that doctrine...

    e) ignores their heart and emotions
    some of our emotions need to be nailed to the cross: envy, anger, bitterness, etc.

    God gives us New clean hearts

    f) is arrogant and lying to those who oppose them
    yeah..,you know you might not want to throw stones in a glass house...

    g) does not know the cross and sorrow at its foot
    not a believer

    h) redefines all the meanings of core Christian words
    well have you ever learned another language? Sometimes the meaning takes a while to explain.

    I) is fine abusing others and trying to break them
    wolf tactics

    j) believes no one can fall from grace but the enemy never knew Him
    accusation wrapped in false doctrine....

    k) nothing emotional touches them, or they can relate to
    so a robot, not human?

    l) everything stays the same, or gets worse
    sounds like a curse of not knowing God


    Now these people do not know the darkness within or the anger that rises
    in them all the time. That might be a clue to their blindness, yet they say
    they know Christ, yet obviously they do not. And the source of their
    arrogance is spiritual gifts. God help them, I weep at their lostness...
    so you have judged them as deceived folks who don't know Christ and you wonder why "they" don't like you much?


    I never expected this, but if the Pharisees could be the works of the enemy
    then so could these people. Remember the enemy sowed seed among us.


    Want to call out "these people" for us? These folks that the enemy has sown among "us"?

    Jesus described the pharisees like this
    You brood of vipers, how can you who are evil say anything good? For the mouth speaks what the heart is full of.

    You snakes! You brood of vipers! How will you escape being condemned to hell?

    These are very strong words. They believed they were Gods chosen, the elect,
    untouchable.

    Their failings were
    1. greed
    2. self indulgence
    3. condemning works of God as works of satan
    4. ignoring justice - making sure evil is not done against anybody
    5. ignoring faithfulness - staying true to ones commitments
    6. ignoring mercy mercy - giving and helping others
    7. killing the people who bring the word of God
    8. full of hypocracy
    9. full of wickedness
    10. appearing to care but totally dead inside their hearts

    People who are like this can never teach or be an example to others.
    You see there you are wrong. Saul was changed by an encounter with Jesus. Men say its imposssible, but with God anything is possible.


    The call is to repent, to clean the heart, to face who one really is and
    to bring it to the cross in humbleness and sorrow. He will heal, He will
    make new, He will bring about salvation of the soul.

    We could all be in this state, you only know if you look inside yourself
    and ask, do you love Jesus, do you love the people of God?
    So have you recognized in the past when you might have been a Pharisee?


    Only you know the answer to this question, but there is always hope in
    the cross in you will go their, and let Jesus into your heart.
    Jesus can be in the heart, but we must ask will we follow the leadings of the Holy Spirit or cling to our spiritual strongholds that out of pride, fear or stubbornness we reject the wisdom of God and seek out own solutions and our own wills instead of God's?
    dcontroversal likes this.

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    Default Re: Pharisees and arrogance

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterJens View Post
    Well my friend, the sermon on the mount is about knowing God, and what you
    do in discipleship. It is not about how you come to have faith in Jesus.

    Your question is like asking someone who has an instruction manual about how
    to drive a car, and you ask where does it say how you get into the car?

    Not sure about the rant comment. lol.

    And Jesus preached "Repent, the kingdom of God is near."
    Matt 3:2

    "Produce fruit in keeping with repentance."
    Matt 3:8

    So you come to God through repentance.
    Before the cross we gained forgiveness of sins through the temple, but
    now it is through the cross.
    No it's more like he is asking you how do you get ownership to a car you can't afford to ever buy?
    Billyd likes this.

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    Senior Member Stephen63's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pharisees and arrogance

    It tickles me when someone come on here speaking against PJ, & never touch those way worse than him.

    It's not what they do that's noticeable..... it's what they don't do that is.

    And they think no one sees..... but we're reading the real story between the lines.

  7. #47
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    Default Re: Pharisees and arrogance

    Quote Originally Posted by Ariel82 View Post
    not a believer. Do you stand as an accuser of someone in this forum?

    straw man, no one believes this and I am tired of you accusing people of doing so.

    okay we do have that in the prosperity false gospel, but not that many post in support of that doctrine...

    some of our emotions need to be nailed to the cross: envy, anger, bitterness, etc.

    God gives us New clean hearts

    yeah..,you know you might not want to throw stones in a glass house...

    not a believer

    well have you ever learned another language? Sometimes the meaning takes a while to explain.

    wolf tactics

    accusation wrapped in false doctrine....

    so a robot, not human?

    sounds like a curse of not knowing God

    so you have judged them as deceived folks who don't know Christ and you wonder why "they" don't like you much?



    Want to call out "these people" for us? These folks that the enemy has sown among "us"?



    You see there you are wrong. Saul was changed by an encounter with Jesus. Men say its imposssible, but with God anything is possible.


    So have you recognized in the past when you might have been a Pharisee?



    Jesus can be in the heart, but we must ask will we follow the leadings of the Holy Spirit or cling to our spiritual strongholds that out of pride, fear or stubbornness we reject the wisdom of God and seek out own solutions and our own wills instead of God's?
    Basically you agree with me, thank you.
    Now if a false teacher repents and comes to faith, then amen.
    But most false teachers I know revise their theology and carry right on as if nothing
    has changed.

    One small point, if I say "I sin everyday, here is an example" and repeats something they
    could is they wanted to deal with, that is boasting.

    It is not saying, to my shame I do x but I am working on it. That is confession of sin
    and repentance. Some issues take time and have many influences.

    Now if someone says they desire to walk righteously and say for periods they do,
    a whole group will mock them, pour scorn on them, ridicule them.
    And you say this is a false accusation. You are blind to the obvious.

    Was I ever a pharisee? Well I have never been legalistic, rather the opposite.

    And on the heart, there are many stone cold hard people who will not even look
    at who they really are.

    On the emotional not being touched by something, I tried the normal stirring issues
    not even a flicker. But you obviously are quite a hard nut yourself lol
    I share "Jesus Christ and him crucified" 1 cor 2:2
    "He gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ." 1 cor 15:57

    The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you

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    Default Re: Pharisees and arrogance

    And this post shows that it isn't about Jesus and his teachings...
    Now these individuals will say I am anti-Christ, I am insulting, slandering, evil, yet
    all I am doing is preaching Gods word. In their mind, the evil is saying by obeying
    Christ you are trying to justify yourself. So the log they wish to remove from their
    fellow believers eye is trying to justify yourself before God.
    No it makes the thread about Peter and his inability to forgive, yet still make accusations of others.

    You reveal in your words that your motives was not to call people to examine our hearts because you have examined yours, but because you are hurt and demand everyone acknowledge your hurt and avenge you.

    If people are saying that you are antiChrist, then they are wrong.

    However, you are doing more than preaching God's word.

    Your words have barbs and hidden accusations and insults in them. You don't see it because you justify your sin, you think what you say of others is true when some of it is blantantly lies and slander.

    I was okay with your OP.

    Your second post, rings false and is just asking for trouble.

  9. #49
    Senior Member PeterJens's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pharisees and arrogance

    Quote Originally Posted by Ariel82 View Post
    No it's more like he is asking you how do you get ownership to a car you can't afford to ever buy?
    He answered the question anyway lol.
    I share "Jesus Christ and him crucified" 1 cor 2:2
    "He gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ." 1 cor 15:57

    The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you

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    Default Re: Pharisees and arrogance

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterJens View Post
    Basically you agree with me, thank you.
    Now if a false teacher repents and comes to faith, then amen.
    But most false teachers I know revise their theology and carry right on as if nothing
    has changed.

    One small point, if I say "I sin everyday, here is an example" and repeats something they
    could is they wanted to deal with, that is boasting.

    It is not saying, to my shame I do x but I am working on it. That is confession of sin
    and repentance. Some issues take time and have many influences.

    Now if someone says they desire to walk righteously and say for periods they do,
    a whole group will mock them, pour scorn on them, ridicule them.
    And you say this is a false accusation. You are blind to the obvious.

    Was I ever a pharisee? Well I have never been legalistic, rather the opposite.

    And on the heart, there are many stone cold hard people who will not even look
    at who they really are.

    On the emotional not being touched by something, I tried the normal stirring issues
    not even a flicker. But you obviously are quite a hard nut yourself lol
    People don't scorn or mock you because you say you want to walk righteously, but because you don't ever really state the gospel message clearly when asked.

    Not that I think they should scorn or mock you or that they even are, but yes a few members like to scorn and mock, I had my fair share of being mocked and called names.

    I forgive them and try and answer the question behind the barbs and not react to their taunts but respond as God has done when I ask Him the same type questions.

    So what do you mean by the hard nut comment?

    (SQUIRRREEELL!!!, for Lynn and my girls )

  11. #51
    Senior Member PeterJens's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pharisees and arrogance

    Quote Originally Posted by Ariel82 View Post
    You reveal in your words that your motives was not to call people to examine our hearts because you have examined yours, but because you are hurt and demand everyone acknowledge your hurt and avenge you.
    Ariel - you could interpret things this way if you want.
    What made me create the list was because when I went through the points, I went, what.
    It I had these points in a list I would have not conversed with people like this.

    I am not hurt, and I do not need revenge. A sinner lost in sin is to be loved and shown
    mercy and not revenge. For some reason you always appear to want to turn things around
    as something I am using to justify myself. Is this your justification for your contributions
    and being a blessing.

    I specifically did not name people but a list of traits. It is up to people to respond and
    identity the reality in their lives. It is obviously enough to trigger the usual suspects for
    whatever reason, lol.

    And you are accusing me of not forgiving. What am I not forgiving? People blind and lost
    in sin? I will love them all day long.
    I share "Jesus Christ and him crucified" 1 cor 2:2
    "He gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ." 1 cor 15:57

    The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you

  12. #52
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    Default Re: Pharisees and arrogance

    Quote Originally Posted by Ariel82 View Post
    because you don't ever really state the gospel message clearly when asked
    Ariel are you joking. I have the gospel message time and again, to the same people.
    This is such a lame response, not worthy of you.

    Walking with Christ is the gospel. Communion changes us. We have the foundation
    of the cross and our sins forgiven through repentance and faith.

    All this makes me wonder, are you always so pedantic and pointy. Am I not allowed
    grace and love, and to just express my love of Christ and His ways, without having to
    pass an exam? I know believers who find it hard to explain how they believe in 30 minutes,
    and I still love them. Maybe you need to learn some of this grace as well, my sister.
    Stunnedbygrace and JIMBO43 like this.
    I share "Jesus Christ and him crucified" 1 cor 2:2
    "He gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ." 1 cor 15:57

    The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you

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    Default Re: Pharisees and arrogance

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterJens View Post
    Ariel are you joking. I have the gospel message time and again, to the same people.
    This is such a lame response, not worthy of you.

    Walking with Christ is the gospel. Communion changes us. We have the foundation
    of the cross and our sins forgiven through repentance and faith.

    All this makes me wonder, are you always so pedantic and pointy. Am I not allowed
    grace and love, and to just express my love of Christ and His ways, without having to
    pass an exam? I know believers who find it hard to explain how they believe in 30 minutes,
    and I still love them. Maybe you need to learn some of this grace as well, my sister.
    Lol maybe you need to come down from your Good works lol....
    may the lord inspire you to post something that has come through communion..

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    Default Re: Pharisees and arrogance

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterJens View Post
    He answered the question anyway lol.
    Cuz he is a nice guy.

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    Default Re: Pharisees and arrogance

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterJens View Post
    Ariel are you joking. I have the gospel message time and again, to the same people.
    This is such a lame response, not worthy of you.

    Walking with Christ is the gospel. Communion changes us. We have the foundation
    of the cross and our sins forgiven through repentance and faith.

    All this makes me wonder, are you always so pedantic and pointy. Am I not allowed
    grace and love, and to just express my love of Christ and His ways, without having to
    pass an exam? I know believers who find it hard to explain how they believe in 30 minutes,
    and I still love them. Maybe you need to learn some of this grace as well, my sister.
    Let me clarify...

    When people say the "gospel" most refer to what Jesus did on the cross for us. You tend to focus on how Jesus wants us to live after having accepted him.

    They just want you to clearly state why it's important to accept what He did on the cross.

    Anyway I could be testy and go off the deep end, cuz you called me a "tough nut" but that would be silly.,,sometimes I think folks aren't trying to offend you anymore than you would try and offend me or others.

    I just posted to show you how your words need clarification. If you choose not to clarify and allow miscommunication to continue, it's your choice.

  16. #56
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    Default Re: Pharisees and arrogance

    Quote Originally Posted by Ariel82 View Post
    Cuz he is a nice guy.
    I agree, which is always encouraging.

    Do you think everyone is nice?
    Is that what you trying to tell me?

    Sinners and active deception is not used or tactics to create division?

    You need to read the profiles of psychopaths or sociopaths, to realise this is
    how some are just made. One sign of people have tendencies like this is certain
    responses they just blank out on. And once they have decided on something,
    you are their target number one, come rain or shine. I worked for a guy like
    this. He got fired in the end because he did this to too many people.

    The important thing is never to take it personally, it is something they cannot
    help and often are not aware of what they are doing. God bless you.
    Stunnedbygrace likes this.
    I share "Jesus Christ and him crucified" 1 cor 2:2
    "He gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ." 1 cor 15:57

    The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you

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    Default Re: Pharisees and arrogance

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterJens View Post
    Ariel - you could interpret things this way if you want.
    What made me create the list was because when I went through the points, I went, what.
    It I had these points in a list I would have not conversed with people like this.

    I am not hurt, and I do not need revenge. A sinner lost in sin is to be loved and shown
    mercy and not revenge. For some reason you always appear to want to turn things around
    as something I am using to justify myself. Is this your justification for your contributions
    and being a blessing.

    I specifically did not name people but a list of traits. It is up to people to respond and
    identity the reality in their lives. It is obviously enough to trigger the usual suspects for
    whatever reason, lol.

    And you are accusing me of not forgiving. What am I not forgiving? People blind and lost
    in sin? I will love them all day long.
    Do you see yourself in that list or is it just a list of the sins of others?

  18. #58
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    Default Re: Pharisees and arrogance

    Quote Originally Posted by Ariel82 View Post
    I just posted to show you how your words need clarification. If you choose not to clarify and allow miscommunication to continue, it's your choice.
    Thanks for this. This is a vast array of issues we discuss and you know most of the
    time we go off on tangents.

    And most of the opposition have no interest in the points, just want antagonism.
    So I mainly blank them. I have given up communicating properly because they have
    gone way beyond that.

    I get the feeling you want compromise at any price, even though your buddies
    disagree at a very fundamental level, and the consequences are foundational.
    I remember you saying you felt bad being called a legalist. It has not changed,
    so why do you continue playing at attempt at a middle ground?
    They have zero interest in playing along.
    I share "Jesus Christ and him crucified" 1 cor 2:2
    "He gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ." 1 cor 15:57

    The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you

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    Default Re: Pharisees and arrogance

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterJens View Post
    Ariel - you could interpret things this way if you want.
    What made me create the list was because when I went through the points, I went, what.
    It I had these points in a list I would have not conversed with people like this.

    I am not hurt, and I do not need revenge. A sinner lost in sin is to be loved and shown
    mercy and not revenge. For some reason you always appear to want to turn things around
    as something I am using to justify myself. Is this your justification for your contributions
    and being a blessing.

    I specifically did not name people but a list of traits. It is up to people to respond and
    identity the reality in their lives. It is obviously enough to trigger the usual suspects for
    whatever reason, lol.

    And you are accusing me of not forgiving. What am I not forgiving? People blind and lost
    in sin? I will love them all day long.
    Hmmmm...must be a side-effect of self-righteousness to suffer from I-itis and Lie-itis.
    People are offended that God is God.

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    Default Re: Pharisees and arrogance

    Quote Originally Posted by preacher4truth View Post
    Hmmmm...must be a side-effect of self-righteousness to suffer from I-itis and Lie-itis.
    p4t - If I am describing my behaviour, it is not unusual to describe what I am doing.
    Are you trying to say something profound, because it has passed me by?

    Lol. You will now go through the "I" in this as well. Be my guest, if it keeps the child
    in you occupied, who am I to stop you lol
    Stunnedbygrace likes this.
    I share "Jesus Christ and him crucified" 1 cor 2:2
    "He gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ." 1 cor 15:57

    The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you

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