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Thread: TRIBULATION LIE

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    Default TRIBULATION LIE

    If folks would ever get the picture of how dangerous a false pre-trib rapture would be, then maybe they would take the time to really see what the bible is saying about the return of Christ to gather the church. The biggest lie spread by the false pre-trib rapture folks is that the tribulation is the wrath of God and that during the tribulation period, after the church is gone(according to them) vast numbers of people will be saved. They have to claim vast numbers of folks are saved during the tribulation in order to maintain the false pre-trib rapture because Rev tells us of vast numbers of Christians who came through the great tribulation. Of course it would be easier to just believe the church has to go through the tribulation as Jesus taught, but they will have none of that. Anyway, here is the pre-trib scenario, just before the Antichrist and the tribulation appear and begin, the church will be raptured, all the Christians will be GONE. Now the Antichrist begins his reign and demands that EVERYONE take the mark of the Beast, since there are no Christians left(according to pre-trib), and ONLY Christians will refuse to take the mark, therefore everyone in the world takes the mark. Also, after one takes the mark they cannot be saved. So we have a real problem here for an honest person, how do you get vast numbers of saved persons out of a world that contains only people that have the mark of the Beast??? You don't of course because the tribulation saints in Rev 7 were saints before the tribulation and did not get gathered until AFTER the tribulation.

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    Default Re: TRIBULATION LIE

    Are you serious man? lol not again

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    Default Re: TRIBULATION LIE

    Quote Originally Posted by PrynceNY View Post
    Are you serious man? lol not again
    He can't help himself, it is all he has to hold on to his faith.
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    Default Re: TRIBULATION LIE

    Is that the best you can come up with?? For crying out loud...PROVE ME WRONG!!! You are suppose to be the experts on the pre-trib and why it is true. Take my story apart...waiting.

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    Default Re: TRIBULATION LIE

    The only answer of a pre-tribber in most cases is an arrogant attitude because they do not even know the bible enough to really present their side, O I forgot...THEY HAVE NO SIDE.

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    Default Re: TRIBULATION LIE

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    Default Re: TRIBULATION LIE

    Quote Originally Posted by PrynceNY View Post
    Are you serious man? lol not again
    What do you mean "are you serious"? Fully one fourth of the Bible is prophecy. That means at least five of the 20 threads on the first page of the Bible discussion forum should be on a "Bible prophecy" topic. And 5 threads on all the next pages. You better get busy, Prynce. You have your work cut out for you! Come on, guy - get off the dime and start up those prophecy threads.

    Oh and...in order to be consistent, you should go over to that thread about the Mark of the Beast and chide them also!
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    Default Re: TRIBULATION LIE

    Quote Originally Posted by samuel23 View Post
    The only answer of a pre-tribber in most cases is an arrogant attitude because they do not even know the bible enough to really present their side, O I forgot...THEY HAVE NO SIDE.
    Yes i should be like you huh, create thread after after thread on the same topic and when people dont agree with me create more threads.
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    Default Re: TRIBULATION LIE

    ah yes another pre-trib trashing thread.
    samuel this is becoming a meme.
    I dont understand how you can equate salvation with eschatology? one doesnt even need to KNOW of the time of jacob's trouble (or great tribulation) to be saved, so what on earth is this.
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    LanceA
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    Default Re: TRIBULATION LIE

    Quote Originally Posted by samuel23 View Post
    Is that the best you can come up with?? For crying out loud...PROVE ME WRONG!!! You are suppose to be the experts on the pre-trib and why it is true. Take my story apart...waiting.
    You've been given proof on other threads from multiple people. I don't have to take your story apart because that is all it is, A STORY.
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    Default Re: TRIBULATION LIE

    Quote Originally Posted by samuel23 View Post
    Is that the best you can come up with?? For crying out loud...PROVE ME WRONG!!! You are suppose to be the experts on the pre-trib and why it is true. Take my story apart...waiting.
    You have such a fascination with the tribulation. How about just focus on Christ and what ever happens happens.
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    Default Re: TRIBULATION LIE

    Quote Originally Posted by samuel23 View Post
    If folks would ever get the picture of how dangerous a false pre-trib rapture would be, then maybe they would take the time to really see what the bible is saying about the return of Christ to gather the church. The biggest lie spread by the false pre-trib rapture folks is that the tribulation is the wrath of God and that during the tribulation period, after the church is gone(according to them) vast numbers of people will be saved. They have to claim vast numbers of folks are saved during the tribulation in order to maintain the false pre-trib rapture because Rev tells us of vast numbers of Christians who came through the great tribulation. Of course it would be easier to just believe the church has to go through the tribulation as Jesus taught, but they will have none of that. Anyway, here is the pre-trib scenario, just before the Antichrist and the tribulation appear and begin, the church will be raptured, all the Christians will be GONE. Now the Antichrist begins his reign and demands that EVERYONE take the mark of the Beast, since there are no Christians left(according to pre-trib), and ONLY Christians will refuse to take the mark, therefore everyone in the world takes the mark. Also, after one takes the mark they cannot be saved. So we have a real problem here for an honest person, how do you get vast numbers of saved persons out of a world that contains only people that have the mark of the Beast??? You don't of course because the tribulation saints in Rev 7 were saints before the tribulation and did not get gathered until AFTER the tribulation.
    Samuel, the bottom line is that, you just don't have any understanding when it comes to end-time events. In your exegesis, you leave out pertinent information in regards to your conclusions. You pick and chose what you want in order to support your belief.

    Obviously you don't understand what the wrath of God entails, nor the time frame in which it takes place.

    You don't understand the difference between the gathering of the church, that it is a completely different event from when the Lord returns to the earth to end the age.

    You don't understand that when a person comes to Christ they have been reconciled to God, i.e. brought back into a right relationship with him. And that the believer has been credited with righteousness.

    The tribulation that Jesus said believers would experience has been taking place from the on-set of the church up to this very day. There is no other tribulation other than that. After the church has been gathered, then God will begin to pour his wrath out upon a "Christ rejecting world" via the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments, which believers are not appointed to suffer, nor will we be exposed to it.

    So we have a real problem here for an honest person, how do you get vast numbers of saved persons out of a world that contains only people that have the mark of the Beast??? You don't of course because the tribulation saints in Rev 7 were saints before the tribulation and did not get gathered until AFTER the tribulation
    The great tribulation saints, will be those who come to Christ after the church has been gathered. The majority of them will be killed because of their testimony for Christ and the word of God and who will not worship the beast, his image nor received his mark. Those great tribulation saints who make it through alive until Christ returns to the earth to end the age, are those who are seen being gathered by the angels in Matt.24:31. These, along with Israel, are those who will repopulate the earth during the millennial period. Those saints who will have died during the great tribulation are those who will be resurrected at Rev.20:4-6.

    In addition to all of this, you will not find the word "Ekklesia/Church" anywhere during the narrative of God's wrath.

    Furthermore, you have never explained how the church is shown to already in heaven, receiving her fine linen and then following Christ out of heaven when he returns to the earth to end the age.

    Sorry, but you just don't have enough understanding of end-time events to come to a right conclusion.
    Last edited by Ahwatukee; April 21st, 2017 at 11:48 AM.
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    Default Re: TRIBULATION LIE

    Quote Originally Posted by samuel23 View Post
    The only answer of a pre-tribber in most cases is an arrogant attitude because they do not even know the bible enough to really present their side, O I forgot...THEY HAVE NO SIDE.
    You know when the arrogant call others arrogant that only makes their case that much less credible, you do realize that in most of your posts you accuse right? if you just mainly point your finger at people how do you expect them to listen to you? If want to teach people the truth then learn how to be a teacher first if you want to make people see then learn how to open their eyes the right way.

    A teacher does not point their finger and call the students blind and ignorant a teacher guides their students in a way that encourages them to listen them and to learn from the wisdom of their words. the way you go about it teaches no one and will never reach anyone's heart
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    Default Re: TRIBULATION LIE

    Quote Originally Posted by samuel23 View Post
    Is that the best you can come up with?? For crying out loud...PROVE ME WRONG!!! You are suppose to be the experts on the pre-trib and why it is true. Take my story apart...waiting.

    Samuel, this is a logical fallacy called "burden of proof reversal". Nobody bears the responsibility of proving you wrong. Rather, you have made the assertion that pre-trib is incorrect; it is up to you to prove your view correct. All you have done in these many threads is assert repeatedly that it is wrong. How about owning your assertion and proving it with Scripture rather than banging the cymbal over and over.

    Quote Originally Posted by MattTooFor View Post
    What do you mean "are you serious"? Fully one fourth of the Bible is prophecy. That means at least five of the 20 threads on the first page of the Bible discussion forum should be on a "Bible prophecy" topic. And 5 threads on all the next pages. You better get busy, Prynce. You have your work cut out for you! Come on, guy - get off the dime and start up those prophecy threads.

    Oh and...in order to be consistent, you should go over to that thread about the Mark of the Beast and chide them also!
    Your post contains more illogic: there is no particular reason why the Bible Discussion forum content should match your selected division of Scripture. Should one in each 66 threads be on each book? Should 59% be on the OT? Should one-sixteenth be on the Gospels? Or, perhaps one in ten should be on tithing, if you want to get (ridiculously) legalistic about it.

    There is also no particular reason why people should be consistent according to your definition. Just because I address a fallacy in one thread, I am not therefore obligated to address a similar fallacy in another thread. People discuss what interests them... period!
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    Default Re: TRIBULATION LIE

    Quote Originally Posted by Dino246 View Post
    Samuel, this is a logical fallacy called "burden of proof reversal". Nobody bears the responsibility of proving you wrong.
    Why not? That's what discussion boards are for, aren't they? I certainly feel I can prove PreTrib doctrine wrong. It's not a "logical fallacy" to ask someone to prove something wrong. Give it a shot, Dino. Show some scripture which contradicts a post-"great tribulation" rapture.

    As an aside, I'm not sure I have 100% agreement with Sam. I'd have to look more closely.

    Your post contains more illogic: there is no particular reason why the Bible Discussion forum content should match your selected division of Scripture.
    Right. You're kind of applying a 'hyper-literal' interpretation to my somewhat tongue-in-cheek comments. But yes...there is a HUGE emphasis on prophecy in the Bible. It is a balance that is quite absent at this time on this Bible forum.

    Should one in each 66 threads be on each book? Should 59% be on the OT? Should one-sixteenth be on the Gospels? Or, perhaps one in ten should be on tithing
    There you go! You're more or less on the right track...your silly hyper-literal application notwithstanding.

    I am not therefore obligated to address a similar fallacy in another thread.
    Yes, you are. You are completely obligated. I want to force people to discuss the topics I stipulate. You nailed it, buddy.

    Anyway...I'm just addressing the strange reality...that when someone proposes a discussion about the error of PreTrib...people act as though that is a moral wrong.
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    Default Re: TRIBULATION LIE

    I really like how pre-tribbers are experts on scripture and anyone who disagrees is stupid and knows nothing.....! Or should I use the word understanding.........yeah....whatever....!
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    Default Re: TRIBULATION LIE

    Quote Originally Posted by dcontroversal View Post
    I really like how pre-tribbers are experts on scripture and anyone who disagrees is stupid and knows nothing.....! Or should I use the word understanding.........yeah....whatever....!
    well one thing is clear, 'the great tribulation' has already mainly taken place. It commenced around 70ad and has gone on ever since. It was tribulation on the Jews. God's wrath came on the world around the same time (Rom 1.18),
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    Default Re: TRIBULATION LIE

    Quote Originally Posted by samuel23 View Post
    If folks would ever get the picture of how dangerous a false pre-trib rapture would be, then maybe they would take the time to really see what the bible is saying about the return of Christ to gather the church. The biggest lie spread by the false pre-trib rapture folks is that the tribulation is the wrath of God and that during the tribulation period, after the church is gone(according to them) vast numbers of people will be saved. They have to claim vast numbers of folks are saved during the tribulation in order to maintain the false pre-trib rapture because Rev tells us of vast numbers of Christians who came through the great tribulation. Of course it would be easier to just believe the church has to go through the tribulation as Jesus taught, but they will have none of that. Anyway, here is the pre-trib scenario, just before the Antichrist and the tribulation appear and begin, the church will be raptured, all the Christians will be GONE. Now the Antichrist begins his reign and demands that EVERYONE take the mark of the Beast, since there are no Christians left(according to pre-trib), and ONLY Christians will refuse to take the mark, therefore everyone in the world takes the mark. Also, after one takes the mark they cannot be saved. So we have a real problem here for an honest person, how do you get vast numbers of saved persons out of a world that contains only people that have the mark of the Beast??? You don't of course because the tribulation saints in Rev 7 were saints before the tribulation and did not get gathered until AFTER the tribulation.
    Hello samuel23
    first off brother I am not a pre-triber . I have no real stake in your thread . What I do have a stake in is the desire for a civil debate among my fellow brothers and sisters in Christ. The way you present your opinion causes strife Brother. Try a approach from a positive side . State your beliefs and why you feel your correct. The way you are doing it can only cause problems for everyone.
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    Default Re: TRIBULATION LIE

    Quote Originally Posted by valiant View Post
    well one thing is clear, 'the great tribulation' has already mainly taken place. It commenced around 70ad and has gone on ever since. It was tribulation on the Jews. God's wrath came on the world around the same time (Rom 1.18),
    Without a doubt the Lord's churches/people have been enduring tribulation (thilipsis) since Abel was killed by Cain.....the point remains that there is a period of time labeled the GREAT TRIBULATION that has NEVER been seen and will never be seen again after it takes place. If Jesus does not step in when he does (primarily to defend his nation and people) there will be NO flesh left alive...Daniel 12 puts this time frame at the end of the age........the only thing that the Lord's churches are not appointed to is the fiery (ORGE) wrath of God which is announced at the 7th trump, in heaven, before the throne as being here and having arrived in the form of the bowls/viols!

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    Default Re: TRIBULATION LIE

    Quote Originally Posted by MattTooFor View Post
    Why not? That's what discussion boards are for, aren't they? I certainly feel I can prove PreTrib doctrine wrong. It's not a "logical fallacy" to ask someone to prove something wrong. Give it a shot, Dino. Show some scripture which contradicts a post-"great tribulation" rapture.
    Actually, I have no horse in this particular race. I do object to samuel23 continuing to make assertions that pre-trib is wrong, without proving that the opposing view is right. All he has done so far is throw out imprecations, ridicule others and repeat himself. I haven't yet seen a logical, sound, scripture-based argument from him.

    It's not wrong to ask someone to prove something, but it is a logical fallacy to ask "you" to disprove "my" assertion. Otherwise, anyone could make any kind of ridiculous statement, and simply demand that others disprove it. Rather, those who make assertions carry the onus to prove (or at least support) their assertions. It makes discussing rather easy, because instead of proving someone wrong, one only need point out shortcomings in their reasoning or support materials.
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