The Rapture

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VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
11,969
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Plainword - AND - abcdef


I figured out why you two interpret these scriptures so VASTLY different than the rest of us.


You FAILED to read, or totally ignored, or refused to learn Paul's instructions on how to interpret GOD's Word.


1 Corinthians 4:6 (NKJV)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] Now these things, brethren, I have figuratively transferred to myself and Apollos for your sakes,
that you may learn in us not to think beyond what is written, that none of you
may be puffed up on behalf of one against the other.
 

RickyZ

Senior Member
Sep 20, 2012
9,635
787
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There will be no more "great tribulation" rising to the level of the 70 AD event. The passage is clear about that. The next time an enemy (Gog) surrounds the holy city, God will divinely intervene and wipe it out. I would call that a similar, but not a duel, prophesy.
Time will tell, my friend. In the end what we think really doesn't matter, does it?

Or does it ;)
 
Apr 15, 2017
2,867
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There will be no more "great tribulation" rising to the level of the 70 AD event. The passage is clear about that. The next time an enemy (Gog) surrounds the holy city, God will divinely intervene and wipe it out. I would call that a similar, but not a duel, prophesy.
Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
Rev 20:7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
Rev 20:8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
Rev 20:9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

This is the only place where God rains fire down on them,and devours them,and the millennial reign is over,and notice that they are on earth,and not a spiritual millennial reign.

In the rest of the Bible it is an attack on Israel before the millennial reign,which is a physical reign on earth.

First attack by the Roman Empire,because they rejected Jesus.

Second attack on Israel by the beast,and the world,because they accepted Jesus,for God turned them to the truth,which He will do in the future.

Eze 38:16 And thou shalt come up against my people of Israel, as a cloud to cover the land; it shall be in the latter days, and I will bring thee against my land, that the heathen may know me, when I shall be sanctified in thee, O Gog, before their eyes.
Eze 38:17 Thus saith the Lord GOD; Art thou he of whom I have spoken in old time by my servants the prophets of Israel, which prophesied in those days many years that I would bring thee against them?
Eze 38:18 And it shall come to pass at the same time when Gog shall come against the land of Israel, saith the Lord GOD, that my fury shall come up in my face.
Eze 38:19 For in my jealousy and in the fire of my wrath have I spoken, Surely in that day there shall be a great shaking in the land of Israel;
Eze 38:20 So that the fishes of the sea, and the fowls of the heaven, and the beasts of the field, and all creeping things that creep upon the earth, and all the men that are upon the face of the earth, shall shake at my presence, and the mountains shall be thrown down, and the steep places shall fall, and every wall shall fall to the ground.
Eze 38:21 And I will call for a sword against him throughout all my mountains, saith the Lord GOD: every man's sword shall be against his brother.
Eze 38:22 And I will plead against him with pestilence and with blood; and I will rain upon him, and upon his bands, and upon the many people that are with him, an overflowing rain, and great hailstones, fire, and brimstone.
Eze 38:23 Thus will I magnify myself, and sanctify myself; and I will be known in the eyes of many nations, and they shall know that I am the LORD.

Some people try to place this in the past,but in the book of Revelation,God devours Gog,and Magog,and there is none of them left,and then the saints are no longer on earth,and will go to the New Jerusalem.

But this attack God leaves some of them,and Jesus and the saints rule over them,and the kingdom on earth restored to Israel.

Eze 39:1 Therefore, thou son of man, prophesy against Gog, and say, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I am against thee, O Gog, the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal:
Eze 39:2 And I will turn thee back, and leave but the sixth part of thee, and will cause thee to come up from the north parts, and will bring thee upon the mountains of Israel:
Eze 39:3 And I will smite thy bow out of thy left hand, and will cause thine arrows to fall out of thy right hand.
Eze 39:4 Thou shalt fall upon the mountains of Israel, thou, and all thy bands, and the people that is with thee: I will give thee unto the ravenous birds of every sort, and to the beasts of the field to be devoured.
Eze 39:5 Thou shalt fall upon the open field: for I have spoken it, saith the Lord GOD.
Eze 39:6 And I will send a fire on Magog, and among them that dwell carelessly in the isles: and they shall know that I am the LORD.
Eze 39:7 So will I make my holy name known in the midst of my people Israel; and I will not let them pollute my holy name any more: and the heathen shall know that I am the LORD, the Holy One in Israel.

God leaves some of the heathen that fought against Israel,and does not get rid of them all,but leaves a sixth of them.

Zec 14:9 And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD, and his name one.

Jesus and the saints rule over them on earth,and nobody will recognize anybody,but Jesus.

Zec 14:16 And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.
Zec 14:17 And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain.
Zec 14:18 And if the family of Egypt go not up, and come not, that have no rain; there shall be the plague, wherewith the LORD will smite the heathen that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.

The heathen have to go up year after year to Jerusalem to worship the LORD,and keep the feast of tabernacles.

Act 1:6 When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?
Act 1:7 And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.
Act 1:8 But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.
Act 1:9 And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.
Act 1:10 And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel;
Act 1:11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.

Eze 39:21 And I will set my glory among the heathen, and all the heathen shall see my judgment that I have executed, and my hand that I have laid upon them.
Eze 39:22 So the house of Israel shall know that I am the LORD their God from that day and forward.
Eze 39:23 And the heathen shall know that the house of Israel went into captivity for their iniquity: because they trespassed against me, therefore hid I my face from them, and gave them into the hand of their enemies: so fell they all by the sword.
Eze 39:24 According to their uncleanness and according to their transgressions have I done unto them, and hid my face from them.
Eze 39:25 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Now will I bring again the captivity of Jacob, and have mercy upon the whole house of Israel, and will be jealous for my holy name;
Eze 39:26 After that they have borne their shame, and all their trespasses whereby they have trespassed against me, when they dwelt safely in their land, and none made them afraid.
Eze 39:27 When I have brought them again from the people, and gathered them out of their enemies' lands, and am sanctified in them in the sight of many nations;
Eze 39:28 Then shall they know that I am the LORD their God, which caused them to be led into captivity among the heathen: but I have gathered them unto their own land, and have left none of them any more there.
Eze 39:29 Neither will I hide my face any more from them: for I have poured out my spirit upon the house of Israel, saith the Lord GOD.

Jer 46:27 But fear not thou, O my servant Jacob, and be not dismayed, O Israel: for, behold, I will save thee from afar off, and thy seed from the land of their captivity; and Jacob shall return, and be in rest and at ease, and none shall make him afraid.
Jer 46:28 Fear thou not, O Jacob my servant, saith the LORD: for I am with thee; for I will make a full end of all the nations whither I have driven thee: but I will not make a full end of thee, but correct thee in measure; yet will I not leave thee wholly unpunished.

Kingdom restored to Israel,no more ruling Gentile government.

Mat 24:1 And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple.
Mat 24:2 And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.

That is all that is mentioned about the overthrow of Jerusalem,and Jesus said that because the disciples said,look at these lovely buildings,and Jesus said,they are coming down.

The rest is future,not the first century.

Also Jesus is telling about spiritual deception,but it is a physical overthrow of Jerusalem,because God allowed it,because Israel rejected Christ,so why is Jesus telling them about spiritual deception when it is not concerning that.

Mat 24:6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.
Mat 24:7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.

Dan 12:8 And I heard, but I understood not: then said I, O my Lord, what shall be the end of these things?
Dan 12:9 And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end.
Dan 12:4 But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.

What Jesus told the disciples about things that happen on different parts of the world cannot be known unless they can view the world,which can only be when there is advanced travel,and advanced technology,like today.

If there was no technology today,what all could you know,whatever you can see with the naked eye all around you,that is about the extent of it,maybe a hear say from 10 miles away,but you would not know of famines,and pestilences,and earthquakes,and nation against nation,and kingdom against kingdom,that happen all around the world,but we can today.

Mat 24:9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.

Hated of all nations,can be done today,which is in the future,back then,not a chance.

Mat 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

Gospel preached unto all the world for a witness unto all nations,can be done today,back then,not a chance.

First attack on Jerusalem by the Roman Empire,because they rejected Christ,so it was their punishment.

Second attack on Jerusalem by the beast,and the world,because they accepted Christ,for God turned them to the truth that Jesus is their Messiah by 2 witnesses,future event.

Dan 7:7 After this I saw in the night visions, and behold a fourth beast, dreadful and terrible, and strong exceedingly; and it had great iron teeth: it devoured and brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with the feet of it: and it was diverse from all the beasts that were before it; and it had ten horns.
Dan 7:8 I considered the horns, and, behold, there came up among them another little horn, before whom there were three of the first horns plucked up by the roots: and, behold, in this horn were eyes like the eyes of man, and a mouth speaking great things.

4th beast,the Roman Empire,does not lose their dominion until God puts them down.Ten horns,the world split in to ten sections with a leader in each section.The little horn,man of sin,beast,comes from the Roman Empire.

Dan 7:23 Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall be diverse from all kingdoms, and shall devour the whole earth, and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces.
Dan 7:24 And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise: and another shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings.
Dan 7:25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.

The 4th kingdom when the world is split in to ten sections,will devour the whole earth,shall tread it down,and break it in pieces.

The whole earth.

Rev 13:5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.
Rev 13:6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.
Rev 13:7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

The beast has power over all nations,kindreds,and tongues.

The whole earth.

Never could happen in the first century,and ask any historian if it could happen,and they will say,get up out of my face with your silly question,for I do not have time for this silliness.

Rev 13:7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

Dan 7:25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.

Dan 8:23 And in the latter time of their kingdom, when the transgressors are come to the full, a king of fierce countenance, and understanding dark sentences, shall stand up.
Dan 8:24 And his power shall be mighty, but not by his own power: and he shall destroy wonderfully, and shall prosper, and practise, and shall destroy the mighty and the holy people.

Dan 12:7 And I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a time, times, and an half; and when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people, all these things shall be finished.

It is a future attack,worldwide against the saints,that will be the greatest persecution ever.

Rev 11:3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.
Rev 11:4 These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.
Rev 11:5 And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed.
Rev 11:6 These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will.
Rev 11:7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.

Rev 11:11 And after three days and an half the Spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.
Rev 11:12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.
Rev 11:13 And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.

In the future,God will turn Israel to the truth that Jesus is their Messiah.

Rev 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Zec 14:1 Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.
Zec 14:2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.
Zec 14:3 Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.
Zec 14:4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.
Zec 14:5 And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the LORD my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.

Zec 14:12 And this shall be the plague wherewith the LORD will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.

God will gather all Gentile nations together to go against Jerusalem.The beast persecutes the saints worldwide,and when he scatters their power,the resurrection will take place.The beast attacks Jersualem,the Jews,and God will come back with all the saints,and fight the world,and defeat them,and save Israel.

The first attack on Jerusalem,God allowed the Roman Empire to overthrow Jerusalem,because they rejected Christ,so it was their punishment.God did not go against them,for it was Israel's punishment.

The second attack is the beast,and the whole world,all nations,because they accepted Christ,and the beast will persecute all who hold the testimony of Jesus.God goes against them,and defeats them,and the kingdom restored to Israel.

The first attack on Jerusalem,because they rejected Jesus.

The second attack on Jerusalem,because they accepted Jesus.

2 different attacks,2 different outcomes.

Mat 24:1 And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple.
Mat 24:2 And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.

That is it for Jesus mentioning the overthrow of Jerusalem,and He said that because the disciples said,look at these lovely buildings,and Jesus said,they are coming down.

The rest is not in the first century,but when the saints can view the world,that can only happen in these times,and great spiritual deception,which would only happen at this time,especially with the new age movement,which the man of sin will be from the new age movement,and will set up the abomination of desolation in the future,by stepping in to their temple,claiming to be God,and their messiah,which the man of sin establishes peace in the Middle East,and the Jews rebuild their temple,and go back to animal sacrifices,with no hassle from the Palestinians,or anyone of the Arab decent.
 

PlainWord

Senior Member
Jun 11, 2013
7,080
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You don't even come close to understanding that I do interpret all Scripture, especially Prophecy, in light of what all other Scripture pertaining to the same subject literally says. You interpret by taking a short cut through the Twilight Zone.
Here I was trying to be nice and you come back with this? The harlot is a false religion being supported by the beast. Do you not understand this?

If you are correct the dominant religion of the G-7 would have to be Christianity although not for Japan where Shinto is the dominant religion and less than 2.5% of Japan is Christian. You have to find a beast that fits ALL OF THE CLUES, not just the ones you like. This is why your views on eschatology are so whacked precisely because you do not allow the Bible to interpret itself. Christianity is not a false religion regardless of the problems with it today. It's not like we are worshiping Ba'al, Buddha, Allah or something.

You found 7 countries that are economic powerhouses for what, 50 years in all of history? Yes, they are loosely connected but there certainly are rifts and they don't support a single false religion and they haven't all come from a singular beast. Japan could never be said to be a product of Rome while the other 6 possibly could. Close, but no cigar.

Further you cite Dan 7 as a companion passage. The chapter starts like this:

[SUP]2 [/SUP]Daniel spoke, saying, “I saw in my vision by night, and behold, the four winds of heaven were stirring up the Great Sea. [SUP]3 [/SUP]And four great beasts came up from the sea, each different from the other.

The "sea" here was the Mediterranean. Of the seven nations of the G-7 only France and Italy boarder the Med. So there are tons of problems with your theory.
 

PlainWord

Senior Member
Jun 11, 2013
7,080
151
63
Time will tell, my friend. In the end what we think really doesn't matter, does it?

Or does it ;)

What we think about eschatology will not matter one little bit in the overall scheme of things.
 

PlainWord

Senior Member
Jun 11, 2013
7,080
151
63
Plainword - AND - abcdef


I figured out why you two interpret these scriptures so VASTLY different than the rest of us.


You FAILED to read, or totally ignored, or refused to learn Paul's instructions on how to interpret GOD's Word.


1 Corinthians 4:6 (NKJV)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] Now these things, brethren, I have figuratively transferred to myself and Apollos for your sakes,
that you may learn in us not to think beyond what is written, that none of you
may be puffed up on behalf of one against the other.
And this is exactly what you are doing, thinking beyond what Paul had written. When Paul was writing to the Thessalonians he was writing to and about them, not to some distant generation in the USA which didn't even exist for another 1500 years. You are the one thinking beyond what Paul wrote and we are the ones taking it literally.

[SUP]17 [/SUP]Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air.

Paul was telling them that some of them would still be alive for the above event.

“Assuredly, I say to you, there are some standing here who shall not taste death till they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom.”

Jesus says the same thing. Some standing right in front of Him would still be alive when He comes in His kingdom. There is no other way of looking at this passage without completely destroying the literal meaning.

[SUP]64 [/SUP]Jesus said to him, “It is as you said. Nevertheless, I say to you, hereafter you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Power, and coming on the clouds of heaven.”

Because the "parousia" return of Christ happened in 70 AD, the above Sanhedrin actually saw the Son of Man come with His angelic army ("clouds of heaven").

[SUP]34 [/SUP]Assuredly, I say to you, this generation will by no means pass away till all these things take place.

Christ said "all these things" that means everything He said prior to this would happen, including His parousia return whereby He came back in wrath and judgment of Jerusalem.

[SUP]7 [/SUP]But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees coming to his baptism, he said to them, “Brood of vipers! Who warned you to flee from the wrath to come?

John the Baptist foretold the wicked religious leaders of the 70 AD wrath event right here agreeing with what Jesus said to the Sanhedrin as I pointed out.

[SUP]43 [/SUP]For days will come upon you when your enemies will build an embankment around you, surround you and close you in on every side,
[SUP]44 [/SUP]and level you, and your children within you, to the ground; and they will not leave in you one stone upon another, because you did not know the time of your visitation.”

The above is undeniably regarding the 66-70 AD event (GT). Why did Jesus say this was to happen? Because they did not know the time was correct for Messiah to appear. All of these verses and all of Paul's verses on this subject matter point to the 70 AD event. It was an event of enormous implications for the Jewish people and indeed, the world. It's a shame you cannot see this. You keep looking for all of these things to be fulfilled in the future. Because you don't know history you can't see that these things already happened.
 
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PlainWord

Senior Member
Jun 11, 2013
7,080
151
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VCO,

Do you understand the concept of "parousia?" If not, here it is. I looked up the meaning on-line, so the text in blue is not my writing:

Parousia (/pəˈruːziə/; Greek: παρουσία) is an ancient Greek word meaning presence, arrival, or official visit. From the Ptolemaic period to the second century of the common era "parousia' was used in the East as a technical expression to denote the arrival or visit of a king or emperor, and celebrated the glory of the sovereign publicly.

Parousia is used 24 times in the New Testament. Of these, six uses refer to the coming of individuals: Stephanas, Fortunatus, and Achaicus (1Co.16:17), Titus (2Co.7:6 & 7) the physical "presence" of Paul himself (2Co.10:10, Php.1:26, 2:12), and a 7th use to the "coming of the lawless one" (2Thess.2:9). The other seventeen uses refer to the Second Coming of Christ, except the one case in which it refers to the coming of the "Day of God" (2 Pet 3:12, see also The Day of the Lord).

In reference to the "parousia of Christ," the word parousia is found in the following verses: Matthew 24:3, 27, 37, 39; 1 Corinthians 15:23; 1 Thessalonians 2:19; 3:13; 4:15; 5:23; 2 Thessalonians 2:1, 8, 9; James 5:7, 8; 2 Peter 1:16; 3:4, 12; 1 John 2:28.

So, the question on the table is, "Was there a parousia return of Christ in 70 AD, or not?" There is strong evidence in the historical record that indeed there was.



 
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popeye

Guest
Time will tell, my friend. In the end what we think really doesn't matter, does it?

Or does it ;)
Pretrib position flows with the written word.

It is appalling what other positions must do to the word of God to make their deal fit.

Our end time view effects so much of our beliefs in Gods relationship with man,and his bride leading to the re establishment of
David's throne.

If I am unaware that a time frame is allotted to gentiles concerning salvation,I will also be caught off-guard when that dynamic is completed. And when shown it,and it differs from my mind,I am at the ole change the word junction.
 
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popeye

Guest
Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
Rev 20:7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
Rev 20:8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
Rev 20:9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

This is the only place where God rains fire down on them,and devours them,and the millennial reign is over,and notice that they are on earth,and not a spiritual millennial reign.

In the rest of the Bible it is an attack on Israel before the millennial reign,which is a physical reign on earth.

First attack by the Roman Empire,because they rejected Jesus.

Second attack on Israel by the beast,and the world,because they accepted Jesus,for God turned them to the truth,which He will do in the future.

Eze 38:16 And thou shalt come up against my people of Israel, as a cloud to cover the land; it shall be in the latter days, and I will bring thee against my land, that the heathen may know me, when I shall be sanctified in thee, O Gog, before their eyes.
Eze 38:17 Thus saith the Lord GOD; Art thou he of whom I have spoken in old time by my servants the prophets of Israel, which prophesied in those days many years that I would bring thee against them?
Eze 38:18 And it shall come to pass at the same time when Gog shall come against the land of Israel, saith the Lord GOD, that my fury shall come up in my face.
Eze 38:19 For in my jealousy and in the fire of my wrath have I spoken, Surely in that day there shall be a great shaking in the land of Israel;
Eze 38:20 So that the fishes of the sea, and the fowls of the heaven, and the beasts of the field, and all creeping things that creep upon the earth, and all the men that are upon the face of the earth, shall shake at my presence, and the mountains shall be thrown down, and the steep places shall fall, and every wall shall fall to the ground.
Eze 38:21 And I will call for a sword against him throughout all my mountains, saith the Lord GOD: every man's sword shall be against his brother.
Eze 38:22 And I will plead against him with pestilence and with blood; and I will rain upon him, and upon his bands, and upon the many people that are with him, an overflowing rain, and great hailstones, fire, and brimstone.
Eze 38:23 Thus will I magnify myself, and sanctify myself; and I will be known in the eyes of many nations, and they shall know that I am the LORD.

Some people try to place this in the past,but in the book of Revelation,God devours Gog,and Magog,and there is none of them left,and then the saints are no longer on earth,and will go to the New Jerusalem.

But this attack God leaves some of them,and Jesus and the saints rule over them,and the kingdom on earth restored to Israel.

Eze 39:1 Therefore, thou son of man, prophesy against Gog, and say, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I am against thee, O Gog, the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal:
Eze 39:2 And I will turn thee back, and leave but the sixth part of thee, and will cause thee to come up from the north parts, and will bring thee upon the mountains of Israel:
Eze 39:3 And I will smite thy bow out of thy left hand, and will cause thine arrows to fall out of thy right hand.
Eze 39:4 Thou shalt fall upon the mountains of Israel, thou, and all thy bands, and the people that is with thee: I will give thee unto the ravenous birds of every sort, and to the beasts of the field to be devoured.
Eze 39:5 Thou shalt fall upon the open field: for I have spoken it, saith the Lord GOD.
Eze 39:6 And I will send a fire on Magog, and among them that dwell carelessly in the isles: and they shall know that I am the LORD.
Eze 39:7 So will I make my holy name known in the midst of my people Israel; and I will not let them pollute my holy name any more: and the heathen shall know that I am the LORD, the Holy One in Israel.

God leaves some of the heathen that fought against Israel,and does not get rid of them all,but leaves a sixth of them.

Zec 14:9 And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD, and his name one.

Jesus and the saints rule over them on earth,and nobody will recognize anybody,but Jesus.

Zec 14:16 And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.
Zec 14:17 And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain.
Zec 14:18 And if the family of Egypt go not up, and come not, that have no rain; there shall be the plague, wherewith the LORD will smite the heathen that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.

The heathen have to go up year after year to Jerusalem to worship the LORD,and keep the feast of tabernacles.

Act 1:6 When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?
Act 1:7 And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.
Act 1:8 But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.
Act 1:9 And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.
Act 1:10 And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel;
Act 1:11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.

Eze 39:21 And I will set my glory among the heathen, and all the heathen shall see my judgment that I have executed, and my hand that I have laid upon them.
Eze 39:22 So the house of Israel shall know that I am the LORD their God from that day and forward.
Eze 39:23 And the heathen shall know that the house of Israel went into captivity for their iniquity: because they trespassed against me, therefore hid I my face from them, and gave them into the hand of their enemies: so fell they all by the sword.
Eze 39:24 According to their uncleanness and according to their transgressions have I done unto them, and hid my face from them.
Eze 39:25 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Now will I bring again the captivity of Jacob, and have mercy upon the whole house of Israel, and will be jealous for my holy name;
Eze 39:26 After that they have borne their shame, and all their trespasses whereby they have trespassed against me, when they dwelt safely in their land, and none made them afraid.
Eze 39:27 When I have brought them again from the people, and gathered them out of their enemies' lands, and am sanctified in them in the sight of many nations;
Eze 39:28 Then shall they know that I am the LORD their God, which caused them to be led into captivity among the heathen: but I have gathered them unto their own land, and have left none of them any more there.
Eze 39:29 Neither will I hide my face any more from them: for I have poured out my spirit upon the house of Israel, saith the Lord GOD.

Jer 46:27 But fear not thou, O my servant Jacob, and be not dismayed, O Israel: for, behold, I will save thee from afar off, and thy seed from the land of their captivity; and Jacob shall return, and be in rest and at ease, and none shall make him afraid.
Jer 46:28 Fear thou not, O Jacob my servant, saith the LORD: for I am with thee; for I will make a full end of all the nations whither I have driven thee: but I will not make a full end of thee, but correct thee in measure; yet will I not leave thee wholly unpunished.

Kingdom restored to Israel,no more ruling Gentile government.

Mat 24:1 And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple.
Mat 24:2 And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.

That is all that is mentioned about the overthrow of Jerusalem,and Jesus said that because the disciples said,look at these lovely buildings,and Jesus said,they are coming down.

The rest is future,not the first century.

Also Jesus is telling about spiritual deception,but it is a physical overthrow of Jerusalem,because God allowed it,because Israel rejected Christ,so why is Jesus telling them about spiritual deception when it is not concerning that.

Mat 24:6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.
Mat 24:7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.

Dan 12:8 And I heard, but I understood not: then said I, O my Lord, what shall be the end of these things?
Dan 12:9 And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end.
Dan 12:4 But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.

What Jesus told the disciples about things that happen on different parts of the world cannot be known unless they can view the world,which can only be when there is advanced travel,and advanced technology,like today.

If there was no technology today,what all could you know,whatever you can see with the naked eye all around you,that is about the extent of it,maybe a hear say from 10 miles away,but you would not know of famines,and pestilences,and earthquakes,and nation against nation,and kingdom against kingdom,that happen all around the world,but we can today.

Mat 24:9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.

Hated of all nations,can be done today,which is in the future,back then,not a chance.

Mat 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

Gospel preached unto all the world for a witness unto all nations,can be done today,back then,not a chance.

First attack on Jerusalem by the Roman Empire,because they rejected Christ,so it was their punishment.

Second attack on Jerusalem by the beast,and the world,because they accepted Christ,for God turned them to the truth that Jesus is their Messiah by 2 witnesses,future event.

Dan 7:7 After this I saw in the night visions, and behold a fourth beast, dreadful and terrible, and strong exceedingly; and it had great iron teeth: it devoured and brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with the feet of it: and it was diverse from all the beasts that were before it; and it had ten horns.
Dan 7:8 I considered the horns, and, behold, there came up among them another little horn, before whom there were three of the first horns plucked up by the roots: and, behold, in this horn were eyes like the eyes of man, and a mouth speaking great things.

4th beast,the Roman Empire,does not lose their dominion until God puts them down.Ten horns,the world split in to ten sections with a leader in each section.The little horn,man of sin,beast,comes from the Roman Empire.

Dan 7:23 Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall be diverse from all kingdoms, and shall devour the whole earth, and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces.
Dan 7:24 And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise: and another shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings.
Dan 7:25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.

The 4th kingdom when the world is split in to ten sections,will devour the whole earth,shall tread it down,and break it in pieces.

The whole earth.

Rev 13:5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.
Rev 13:6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.
Rev 13:7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

The beast has power over all nations,kindreds,and tongues.

The whole earth.

Never could happen in the first century,and ask any historian if it could happen,and they will say,get up out of my face with your silly question,for I do not have time for this silliness.

Rev 13:7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

Dan 7:25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.

Dan 8:23 And in the latter time of their kingdom, when the transgressors are come to the full, a king of fierce countenance, and understanding dark sentences, shall stand up.
Dan 8:24 And his power shall be mighty, but not by his own power: and he shall destroy wonderfully, and shall prosper, and practise, and shall destroy the mighty and the holy people.

Dan 12:7 And I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a time, times, and an half; and when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people, all these things shall be finished.

It is a future attack,worldwide against the saints,that will be the greatest persecution ever.

Rev 11:3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.
Rev 11:4 These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.
Rev 11:5 And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed.
Rev 11:6 These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will.
Rev 11:7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.

Rev 11:11 And after three days and an half the Spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.
Rev 11:12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.
Rev 11:13 And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.

In the future,God will turn Israel to the truth that Jesus is their Messiah.

Rev 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Zec 14:1 Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.
Zec 14:2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.
Zec 14:3 Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.
Zec 14:4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.
Zec 14:5 And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the LORD my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.

Zec 14:12 And this shall be the plague wherewith the LORD will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.

God will gather all Gentile nations together to go against Jerusalem.The beast persecutes the saints worldwide,and when he scatters their power,the resurrection will take place.The beast attacks Jersualem,the Jews,and God will come back with all the saints,and fight the world,and defeat them,and save Israel.

The first attack on Jerusalem,God allowed the Roman Empire to overthrow Jerusalem,because they rejected Christ,so it was their punishment.God did not go against them,for it was Israel's punishment.

The second attack is the beast,and the whole world,all nations,because they accepted Christ,and the beast will persecute all who hold the testimony of Jesus.God goes against them,and defeats them,and the kingdom restored to Israel.

The first attack on Jerusalem,because they rejected Jesus.

The second attack on Jerusalem,because they accepted Jesus.

2 different attacks,2 different outcomes.

Mat 24:1 And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple.
Mat 24:2 And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.

That is it for Jesus mentioning the overthrow of Jerusalem,and He said that because the disciples said,look at these lovely buildings,and Jesus said,they are coming down.

The rest is not in the first century,but when the saints can view the world,that can only happen in these times,and great spiritual deception,which would only happen at this time,especially with the new age movement,which the man of sin will be from the new age movement,and will set up the abomination of desolation in the future,by stepping in to their temple,claiming to be God,and their messiah,which the man of sin establishes peace in the Middle East,and the Jews rebuild their temple,and go back to animal sacrifices,with no hassle from the Palestinians,or anyone of the Arab decent.
Pretty much so. PW will not listen though. He has too big of an investment in his own deal.
 

PlainWord

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Jun 11, 2013
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Pretty much so. PW will not listen though. He has too big of an investment in his own deal.
No, PW has more insight than the average bear. Not brainwashed like so many:D. Can actually read and comprehend.
 

PlainWord

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Jun 11, 2013
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Pretrib position flows with the written word.

It is appalling what other positions must do to the word of God to make their deal fit.

Our end time view effects so much of our beliefs in Gods relationship with man,and his bride leading to the re establishment of
David's throne.

If I am unaware that a time frame is allotted to gentiles concerning salvation,I will also be caught off-guard when that dynamic is completed. And when shown it,and it differs from my mind,I am at the ole change the word junction.
Since the Tribulation (GT of Mt 24) happened from 66-70 AD, then according to you, the rapture happened in early 66. Not so, because the Elect were still there waiting for Christ's parousia return. This is how God dealt with sinful Israel. The wicked of that day were destroyed and the Elect were gathered to Him. This put a final nail in the coffin of the Law and the priesthood atonement system.

Since that huge event of Aug 10, 70 AD, God deals with us all the same.
 

VCO

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Oct 14, 2013
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Here I was trying to be nice and you come back with this? The harlot is a false religion being supported by the beast. Do you not understand this?

If you are correct the dominant religion of the G-7 would have to be Christianity although not for Japan where Shinto is the dominant religion and less than 2.5% of Japan is Christian. You have to find a beast that fits ALL OF THE CLUES, not just the ones you like. This is why your views on eschatology are so whacked precisely because you do not allow the Bible to interpret itself. Christianity is not a false religion regardless of the problems with it today. It's not like we are worshiping Ba'al, Buddha, Allah or something.

You found 7 countries that are economic powerhouses for what, 50 years in all of history? Yes, they are loosely connected but there certainly are rifts and they don't support a single false religion and they haven't all come from a singular beast. Japan could never be said to be a product of Rome while the other 6 possibly could. Close, but no cigar.

Further you cite Dan 7 as a companion passage. The chapter starts like this:

[SUP]2 [/SUP]Daniel spoke, saying, “I saw in my vision by night, and behold, the four winds of heaven were stirring up the Great Sea. [SUP]3 [/SUP]And four great beasts came up from the sea, each different from the other.

The "sea" here was the Mediterranean. Of the seven nations of the G-7 only France and Italy boarder the Med. So there are tons of problems with your theory.

1 John 2:19 (NRSV)
[SUP]19 [/SUP] They went out from us, but they did not belong to us; for if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us. But by going out they made it plain that none of them belongs to us.

Matthew 24:23-25 (NRSV)
[SUP]23 [/SUP] Then if anyone says to you, 'Look! Here is the Messiah!' or 'There he is!'—do not believe it.
[SUP]24 [/SUP] For false messiahs and
false prophets will appear and produce great signs and omens, to lead astray, if possible, even the elect.
[SUP]25 [/SUP] Take note, I have told you beforehand.


2 Timothy 3:13-14 (HCSB)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] Evil people and impostors will become worse, deceiving and being deceived.
[SUP]14 [/SUP] But as for you, continue in what you have learned and firmly believed. You know those who taught you,

1 Timothy 4:1 (NASB)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] But the Spirit explicitly says that in later times some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to deceitful spirits and doctrines of demons,

2 Timothy 3:7-8 (HCSB)
[SUP]7 [/SUP] always learning and never able to come to a knowledge of the truth.
[SUP]8 [/SUP] Just as Jannes and Jambres resisted Moses, so these also resist the truth, men who are corrupt in mind, worthless in regard to the faith.



AND, that is exactly where I think your theology is coming from.
 

PlainWord

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Jun 11, 2013
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1 John 2:19 (NRSV)
[SUP]19 [/SUP] They went out from us, but they did not belong to us; for if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us. But by going out they made it plain that none of them belongs to us.

What on earth does this have to do with the Beast of Rev 13? This passage deals with 1st century fake Christians.

Matthew 24:23-25 (NRSV)
[SUP]23 [/SUP] Then if anyone says to you, 'Look! Here is the Messiah!' or 'There he is!'—do not believe it.
[SUP]24 [/SUP] For false messiahs and
false prophets will appear and produce great signs and omens, to lead astray, if possible, even the elect.
[SUP]25 [/SUP] Take note, I have told you beforehand.
These were the false prophets inside Jerusalem during its great tribulation as recorded extensively by Josephus, who was there. This also has nothing to do with the Beast of the Sea.
2 Timothy 3:13-14 (HCSB)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] Evil people and impostors will become worse, deceiving and being deceived.
[SUP]14 [/SUP] But as for you, continue in what you have learned and firmly believed. You know those who taught you,

1 Timothy 4:1 (NASB)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] But the Spirit explicitly says that in later times some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to deceitful spirits and doctrines of demons,

2 Timothy 3:7-8 (HCSB)
[SUP]7 [/SUP] always learning and never able to come to a knowledge of the truth.
[SUP]8 [/SUP] Just as Jannes and Jambres resisted Moses, so these also resist the truth, men who are corrupt in mind, worthless in regard to the faith.
Again, first century people. No wonder you're so confused. You think none of the prophesy in the NT has been fulfilled.
AND, that is exactly where I think your theology is coming from.
May I suggest you read "Demonstratio Evangelica" by Eusebius of Caesarea? He was a third century Christian leader. His writings and theology are very closely aligned with mine. Also, you really need to read "War of the Jews" by Josephus. If you do, your views will quickly change as you will start checking off all the boxes as most of NT prophesy was fulfilled in the 1st century.
 
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hi PlainWord!!!!!!! i think matthew24 definately does talk about the destruction of jerusalem but after founding out that revelation is written after 70ad it must also be talking about the end time return so how do we get around the this generation it says in matthew24???????? also i noticed that luke 21 mark13 and matt24 and revelation6-8 all match somewhat where it speaks of antichrist, wars, famine, death and also the sun being darkened is in all those and then when the sixth seal is opened and sun does go dark you see in rev7 there is innumerable amount of people in heaven and also the 144000 hebrews so what do you guys think????? am i onto something or am i just reading into things too much..... these are very interesting things i used to think revelation was fulfilled all the way to chapter20 but now im not sure since its written after 70ad.
 

PlainWord

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Jun 11, 2013
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hi PlainWord!!!!!!! i think matthew24 definately does talk about the destruction of jerusalem but after founding out that revelation is written after 70ad it must also be talking about the end time return so how do we get around the this generation it says in matthew24???????? also i noticed that luke 21 mark13 and matt24 and revelation6-8 all match somewhat where it speaks of antichrist, wars, famine, death and also the sun being darkened is in all those and then when the sixth seal is opened and sun does go dark you see in rev7 there is innumerable amount of people in heaven and also the 144000 hebrews so what do you guys think????? am i onto something or am i just reading into things too much..... these are very interesting things i used to think revelation was fulfilled all the way to chapter20 but now im not sure since its written after 70ad.
Hi there!! I used to think Revelation was written around 95-96 AD too but now I'm not so sure. I think it very likely that it was written much earlier, prior to 70 AD. You will find a lot of debate about this in the historical record.

Well, you raise a lot of different topics, too many to cover with one response. Let's start with the Olivet Discourse of Mat 24. It is my belief that everything Jesus discussed indeed happen to that generation. This includes His wrath parousia return. There are many passages which support that fact that Jesus' presence did in fact return in 70 AD to execute judgment on the wicked inside Jerusalem.

The below is a link to an excellent expose of what happened in 70 AD and how it fulfilled so much prophesy.

The Coming of Christ in 70 A.D.

There are plenty of other sources on-line that I can send you to.
 

RickyZ

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Sep 20, 2012
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The problem is that everyone gets caught up with either a day of infamy in the past, or a day of mystery in the future. The REAL truth is that, like the arrogant farmer, any one of us could be caught up to be with Him tonight. That heart attack, that car crash, that your-ticket-is-punched moment is YOUR rapture. So while we're debating past v future, let's not loose sight of the fact that for many it will happen tonight.

Prophecy reverberates thru time like an echo.
 
Apr 23, 2017
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Hi there!! I used to think Revelation was written around 95-96 AD too but now I'm not so sure. I think it very likely that it was written much earlier, prior to 70 AD. You will find a lot of debate about this in the historical record.

Well, you raise a lot of different topics, too many to cover with one response. Let's start with the Olivet Discourse of Mat 24. It is my belief that everything Jesus discussed indeed happen to that generation. This includes His wrath parousia return. There are many passages which support that fact that Jesus' presence did in fact return in 70 AD to execute judgment on the wicked inside Jerusalem.

The below is a link to an excellent expose of what happened in 70 AD and how it fulfilled so much prophesy.

The Coming of Christ in 70 A.D.

There are plenty of other sources on-line that I can send you to.
is there more than one parousia? what scriptures you think are unfulfilled that say He is coming again (parousia)
 

PlainWord

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Muzungu256,

The below is from first century historian Flavius Josephus who, of course, was actually there to witness the destruction of Jerusalem. This passage discusses the parousia return of Christ with His heavenly armies. Josephus in red:

Thus there was a star resembling a sword, which stood over the city, and a comet, that continued a whole year. Thus also before the Jews' rebellion, and before those commotions which preceded the war, when the people were come in great crowds to the feast of unleavened bread, on the eighth day of the month Xanthicus, [Nisan,] and at the ninth hour of the night, so great a light shone round the altar and the holy house, that it appeared to be bright day time; which lasted for half an hour. This light seemed to be a good sign to the unskillful, but was so interpreted by the sacred scribes, as to portend those events that followed immediately upon it. At the same festival also, a heifer, as she was led by the high priest to be sacrificed, brought forth a lamb in the midst of the temple. Moreover, the eastern gate of the inner [court of the] temple, which was of brass, and vastly heavy, and had been with difficulty shut by twenty men, and rested upon a basis armed with iron, and had bolts fastened very deep into the firm floor, which was there made of one entire stone, was seen to be opened of its own accord about the sixth hour of the night. Now those that kept watch in the temple came hereupon running to the captain of the temple, and told him of it; who then came up thither, and not without great difficulty was able to shut the gate again. This also appeared to the vulgar to be a very happy prodigy, as if God did thereby open them the gate of happiness. But the men of learning understood it, that the security of their holy house was dissolved of its own accord, and that the gate was opened for the advantage of their enemies. So these publicly declared that the signal foreshowed the desolation that was coming upon them. Besides these, a few days after that feast, on the one and twentieth day of the month Artemisius, [Jyar,] a certain prodigious and incredible phenomenon appeared: I suppose the account of it would seem to be a fable, were it not related by those that saw it, and were not the events that followed it of so considerable a nature as to deserve such signals; for, before sun-setting, chariots and troops of soldiers in their armor were seen running about among the clouds, and surrounding of cities. Moreover, at that feast which we call Pentecost, as the priests were going by night into the inner [court of the temple,] as their custom was, to perform their sacred ministrations, they said that, in the first place, they felt a quaking, and heard a great noise, and after that they heard a sound as of a great multitude, saying, "Let us remove hence."

So we have a star shaped like a sword. I believe this was the sign of the Son of Man which came before His actual return.

"Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven.." "Now out of His mouth goes a sharp sword..."

We have a young calf giving birth to a LAMB inside the temple!! How can that happen?

We have horses and chariots in the sky.

[SUP]14 [/SUP]And the armies in heaven, clothed in fine linen, white and clean, followed Him on white horses."

We have loud noises and an earthquake.

"And there were noises, thunderings, lightnings, and an earthquake."

We have a bright light for a half an hour surrounding the temple. I believe this Light was the presence of the Lord.

"When He opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven for about half an hour."

Why was there silence in heaven for a half hour? Because those in heaven left with Christ to execute judgment on Jerusalem. Pretty freaky.
 

PlainWord

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Jun 11, 2013
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is there more than one parousia? what scriptures you think are unfulfilled that say He is coming again (parousia)
Please look at this passage:

[SUP]35 [/SUP]Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will by no means pass away.[SUP]36 [/SUP]“But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, but My Father only. [SUP]37 [/SUP]But as the days of Noah were, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be.

I believe everything before this passage happened from about 50-70 AD and everything after is dealing with His coming when heaven and earth is to pass away. See how He switches from 70 AD events to the end of the heavens and earth? You see, the Great Tribulation of Jerusalem and Judea could not be described as peaceful and "normal" like it will be before the end of the heavens and earth. The world will be in big-time sin, like in the days of Noah - kind of like now!! Only the Father knows when heaven and earth will pass away.

 
Apr 23, 2017
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its true it matches really well..... what was the great multitude why were they leaving under the temple or something??????
also if that was one parousia how many parousia is there left? just one? which bible verse you think is not fulfilled yet thats talking about parousia (second coming i mean literal coming physical visible). i wanna learn this things

EDIT: ah thanks so from heaven and earth shall pass away forward in matthew24 its the second coming thanks!!! btw bro do you believe we are in the millenium now? (amillennialism)