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Thread: The Rapture

  1. #41
    Senior Member Ahwatukee's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Rapture

    And please don't tell me 1 Thessalonians verse 16. This is the 7th Trump given at the return of Christ.


    Good morning buddyt,

    Once again, the 7th trumpet of the trumpet judgments has nothing to do with the last trumpet mentioned in 1 Cor.15:52. The only thing that those two verse have in common is the word "trumpet." But the word trumpet is not unique to a specific event.

    There are many different type of trumpets which are used for different purposes. one was to prepare the people of Israel to move out, one was to stop and set up camp, another was to assemble the armies of Israel. During the exodus, one trumpet was to warn the people that God was arriving on the mountain as a warning so that anyone on or near the mountain could depart else they would be killed. Another trumpet was sounded to let Israel know that God was leaving the mountain and that it would be safe to be on or around the mountain. These are just a few off the top of my head, and I am sure that there others.

    So regarding the last trumpet, it is one of gathering the church to meet the Lord in the air. The error that has been made is the assumption by some that 7th trumpet is synonymous with the last trumpet mentioned at the gathering of the church. The on-going problem is that, if the 7th trumpet was the last trumpet, then it would mean that the church would have gone through the seals and trumpet judgments, which are God's wrath and which the church is not appointed to suffer.

    The bottom line is, the last trumpet has nothing to do with the 7th trumpet of the trumpet judgments. In further support of this, there is nothing in or around the context of the 7th trumpet that mentions anything about the church being gathered nor does it even mention the church. It is a judgment of wrath and there is no blessing associated with it.
    But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control ...

    I am the vine; you are the branches. If you remain in me and I in you, you will bear much fruit ...

    This is to my Father’s glory, that you bear much fruit ....

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    Default Re: The Rapture

    Quote Originally Posted by Ahwatukee View Post
    Here's a couple of scripture proofs regarding the imminent return of the Lord for the church:

    "But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father"

    "Therefore keep watch, because you do not know on what day your Lord will come. But understand this: If the owner of the house had known at what time of night the thief was coming, he would have kept watch and would not have let his house be broken into. So you also must be ready, because the Son of Man will come at an hour when you do not expect him."

    Since the home owner doesn't know what time a thief would break in, he would have to always be watching.

    "But suppose that servant is wicked and says to himself, ‘My master is staying away a long time,’ and he then begins to beat his fellow servants and to eat and drink with drunkards. The master of that servant will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour he is not aware of. He will cut him to pieces and assign him a place with the hypocrites, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth."

    Imminency
    and then begins the everlasting kingdom.

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    Default Re: The Rapture

    Quote Originally Posted by Ahwatukee View Post


    Hello again,

    As I provided in the last post, from the time that Jesus quoted Dan.9:27 until the temple was destroyed, none of the events of the last seven years has been fulfilled. As I stated, after the Messiah was cut off/crucified, God put that last seven years on hold for a future fulfillment in relation to the end of the age. At the end of the 69 sevens the messiah was cut off and God began to build his church. Once the church has been completed, then the Lord will descend from heaven to the atmosphere and the dead in Christ will rise and the living will be changed and caught up. Following that, the ruler, that antichirst, will establish that last seven year covenant with Israel in fulfillment of the last seven. During that time God will will be fulfilling the decree upon Israel and Jerusalem found in Dan.9:24 and will also deal with a Christ rejecting world via the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments, with the Lord returning shortly after the 7th bowl judgment.
    Did it not occur to you that the "covenant" established in the last week of Daniel is the covenant established by Jesus Christ? And that the cessation of sacrifices of that week were also because Jesus Christ offered himself as the one and only sacrifice for all time? And that said covenant was "confirmed" by the pouring of the blood of Jesus Christ, and was then declared unto the Jews and the Gentiles by the apostles? You seem to ignore events that happened in that timeframe in relation to the last week of Daniel.

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    Default Re: The Rapture

    Quote Originally Posted by Ahwatukee View Post
    Hello VCO,

    Regardless of the word used, the word "Build" is in the future tense, meaning that the group that Jesus was speaking about that he was going to build had not previously existed. For you wouldn't build something that already existed.
    Jesus is talking about the new 'congregation' that He will build paralleling the old. He was including both Jews and Gentiles. Now that Messiah had come all would be new.

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    Default Re: The Rapture

    Quote Originally Posted by 2nicee View Post
    I just started to study the rapture and the tribulation few days ago. I came across what every Christian is debating about. I alone believe in the mid tribulation rapture. I just want to get your view on this if you are pre-trib, mid-trib or post-trib rapture believer. THANKS AND GOD BLESS
    Mid trib is when the focus turns to the Jew,and the " times of the gentiles is fulfilled.

    Mid trib doesn't fit because it says the ac kills all refusing the mark.that also eliminates post trib.

    Once,as vco said,the proper prism is in place,interpretation has a chance.

    That prism is FROM HEAVEN,TO MAN. Almost without exception you will see those with views,trying to mentally decipher a book,whose setting and message is not from this world.

    Note what is posted 99% of the time. They are fixated on the tribulation.

    Heaven is centered on the eternal,but also on the bride /groom union and anticipation.

    Note "...even so come Lord Jesus..."
    But right there it also says "...the SPIRIT AND THE BRIDE SAY COME..."

    I agree with that,I line up with that...FIRST. I start FROM there. I start from the end of the book,THEN proceed.

    Mid and post get eliminated by the word. What man thinks ,is ,and always will be,hit and miss. But usually lacks the harmony of the bible.

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    Default Re: The Rapture

    Quote Originally Posted by Ahwatukee View Post


    Good morning buddyt,

    Once again, the 7th trumpet of the trumpet judgments has nothing to do with the last trumpet mentioned in 1 Cor.15:52. The only thing that those two verse have in common is the word "trumpet." But the word trumpet is not unique to a specific event.

    There are many different type of trumpets which are used for different purposes. one was to prepare the people of Israel to move out, one was to stop and set up camp, another was to assemble the armies of Israel. During the exodus, one trumpet was to warn the people that God was arriving on the mountain as a warning so that anyone on or near the mountain could depart else they would be killed. Another trumpet was sounded to let Israel know that God was leaving the mountain and that it would be safe to be on or around the mountain. These are just a few off the top of my head, and I am sure that there others.

    So regarding the last trumpet, it is one of gathering the church to meet the Lord in the air. The error that has been made is the assumption by some that 7th trumpet is synonymous with the last trumpet mentioned at the gathering of the church. The on-going problem is that, if the 7th trumpet was the last trumpet, then it would mean that the church would have gone through the seals and trumpet judgments, which are God's wrath and which the church is not appointed to suffer.

    The bottom line is, the last trumpet has nothing to do with the 7th trumpet of the trumpet judgments. In further support of this, there is nothing in or around the context of the 7th trumpet that mentions anything about the church being gathered nor does it even mention the church. It is a judgment of wrath and there is no blessing associated with it.
    The last trumpet before destruction at the end of the world is the seventh.

    It’s how the word seven is used in parables throughout the scriptures. Remember without parables the word of God speaks not, as Rehab was delivered from judgment on the last day and was with those who took that city, the same will apply in the last day, seventh trumpet as to us who enter the new Jerusalem prepared as the bride of Christ. there is no need to make that word (seven) used as a parable to no effect.


    And it came to pass on the seventh day, that they rose early about the dawning of the day, and compassed the city after the same manner seven times: only on that day they compassed the city seven times.And it came to pass at the seventh time, when the priests blew with the trumpets, Joshua said unto the people, Shout; for the LORD hath given you the city.And the city shall be accursed, even it, and all that are therein, to the LORD: only Rahab the harlot shall live, she and all that are with her in the house, because she hid the messengers that we sent.And ye, in any wise keep yourselves from the accursed thing, lest ye make yourselves accursed, when ye take of the accursed thing, and make the camp of Israel a curse, and trouble it.But all the silver, and gold, and vessels of brass and iron, are consecrated unto the LORD: they shall come into the treasury of the LORD.So the people shouted when the priests blew with the trumpets: and it came to pass, when the people heard the sound of the trumpet, and the people shouted with a great shout, that the wall fell down flat, so that the people went up into the city, every man straight before him, and they took the city.
    Jos 6:15

    Six times in the book of John alone he uses the words "last day" and "judgment day" to indicate the end of the world as we know it.

    John 11:24 Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.

    John 12:48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

    1Co 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

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    Default Re: The Rapture

    I am post-trib pre-wrath rapture, however at this time I do not see the 7th trumpet as being the last trumpet that Paul said would signal Christ return. I see the church going out at the 6th seal as verified by them being in Heaven in Rev 7 and that is before any of the trumpet blasts. I see the trumpet blasts as part of the wrath of God, so I see the church gone before any of the trumpet blasts. My thoughts are not set in stone, any new evidence will be examined.
    Last edited by samuel23; April 24th, 2017 at 09:43 AM.

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    Default Re: The Rapture

    i don't know if im pre-post-mid trib rapture!!!! here is what i believe you tell me what its called God is coming to save us all from the planet and then He will destroy it and create ALL ANEW. praise God!!!!
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    Default Re: The Rapture

    Quote Originally Posted by 2nicee View Post
    I just started to study the rapture and the tribulation few days ago. I came across what every Christian is debating about. I alone believe in the mid tribulation rapture. I just want to get your view on this if you are pre-trib, mid-trib or post-trib rapture believer. THANKS AND GOD BLESS
    I believe the rapture will happen on the day of the second coming of the LORD Jesus Christ.. Which is called the Day of the LORD..

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    Default Re: The Rapture

    Quote Originally Posted by garee View Post
    The last trumpet before destruction at the end of the world is the seventh.

    It’s how the word seven is used in parables throughout the scriptures. Remember without parables the word of God speaks not, as Rehab was delivered from judgment on the last day and was with those who took that city, the same will apply in the last day, seventh trumpet as to us who enter the new Jerusalem prepared as the bride of Christ. there is no need to make that word (seven) used as a parable to no effect.


    And it came to pass on the seventh day, that they rose early about the dawning of the day, and compassed the city after the same manner seven times: only on that day they compassed the city seven times.And it came to pass at the seventh time, when the priests blew with the trumpets, Joshua said unto the people, Shout; for the LORD hath given you the city.And the city shall be accursed, even it, and all that are therein, to the LORD: only Rahab the harlot shall live, she and all that are with her in the house, because she hid the messengers that we sent.And ye, in any wise keep yourselves from the accursed thing, lest ye make yourselves accursed, when ye take of the accursed thing, and make the camp of Israel a curse, and trouble it.But all the silver, and gold, and vessels of brass and iron, are consecrated unto the LORD: they shall come into the treasury of the LORD.So the people shouted when the priests blew with the trumpets: and it came to pass, when the people heard the sound of the trumpet, and the people shouted with a great shout, that the wall fell down flat, so that the people went up into the city, every man straight before him, and they took the city.
    Jos 6:15

    Six times in the book of John alone he uses the words "last day" and "judgment day" to indicate the end of the world as we know it.

    John 11:24 Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.

    John 12:48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

    1Co 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
    The last trumpet is not the seventh trumpet of Revelation, even though you are close. The last trumpet, after the seven trumpet blasts that will occur at the Festival of Trumpets (1st of the month to the 9th of the seventh month) is the one that happens at the Day of Atonement (10th day of the seventh month), and that is the day that the elect will be changed and gathered by angels, all around the world, to be taken to meet the Lord in the air.

    Then shalt thou send abroad the loud trumpet on the tenth day of the seventh month; in the day of atonement shall ye send abroad the trumpet throughout all your land. (Leviticus 25:9 [ASV])

    The seventh trumpet is merely the trumpet upon which Jesus Christ will finally take dominion of the earth, which is the greatest woe of all, because it will then begin another chain of events to bring further terrifying judgments upon the earth (seven bowls of wrath, and then the lava lake judgment upon anyone who survived the previous plagues).

    I have an entire study on this, the order of events, here The Second Coming, the Trumpet Blasts, the Bowls of Wrath, and Inheriting the Earth | Wisdom of God .

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    Default Re: The Rapture

    Quote Originally Posted by Adstar View Post
    I believe the rapture will happen on the day of the second coming of the LORD Jesus Christ.. Which is called the Day of the LORD..
    But you see there is an issue with this, the rapture speaks of us going to him to meet him in the clouds or to ascend to the heavens or to be gathered by his angels from the four winds of the earth the day of Lord is when he comes down to earth with fire in his eyes wage war with satan in an epic battle and pouring his wrath on all who worship the beast.

    There is a difference between us going to him and him coming to us
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    Default Re: The Rapture

    Quote Originally Posted by Blain View Post
    But you see there is an issue with this, the rapture speaks of us going to him to meet him in the clouds or to ascend to the heavens or to be gathered by his angels from the four winds of the earth the day of Lord is when he comes down to earth with fire in his eyes wage war with satan in an epic battle and pouring his wrath on all who worship the beast.

    There is a difference between us going to him and him coming to us
    The scriptures do talk about us going to meet Him in the clouds.. But it does not say we will go to Heaven after we meet Him in the clouds.. He comes and we are caught up to meet Him on the day of His return..

    We will be coming right back down with Him to rule the earth with Him for 1000 Years..

    Revelation 20: KJV
    4 "And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. {5} But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. {6} Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years."


    Jesus actually hinted at this in the following parrable::

    Luke 19: KJV
    15 "And it came to pass, that when He was returned, having received the kingdom, then he commanded these servants to be called unto him, to whom he had given the money, that he might know how much every man had gained by trading. {16} Then came the first, saying, Lord, thy pound hath gained ten pounds. {17} And he said unto him, Well, thou good servant: because thou hast been faithful in a very little, have thou authority over ten cities. {18} And the second came, saying, Lord, thy pound hath gained five pounds. {19} And he said likewise to him, Be thou also over five cities."

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    Default Re: The Rapture

    Quote Originally Posted by Adstar View Post
    The scriptures do talk about us going to meet Him in the clouds.. But it does not say we will go to Heaven after we meet Him in the clouds.. He comes and we are caught up to meet Him on the day of His return..

    We will be coming right back down with Him to rule the earth with Him for 1000 Years..

    Revelation 20: KJV
    4 "And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. {5} But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. {6} Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years."


    Jesus actually hinted at this in the following parrable::

    Luke 19: KJV
    15 "And it came to pass, that when He was returned, having received the kingdom, then he commanded these servants to be called unto him, to whom he had given the money, that he might know how much every man had gained by trading. {16} Then came the first, saying, Lord, thy pound hath gained ten pounds. {17} And he said unto him, Well, thou good servant: because thou hast been faithful in a very little, have thou authority over ten cities. {18} And the second came, saying, Lord, thy pound hath gained five pounds. {19} And he said likewise to him, Be thou also over five cities."
    The bible is not always so direct, meeting in the clouds is a symbolism and a reference of the heavens. As for coming right back to rule for a 1000 years that I am not so sure about, I mean if in fact you are correct and the day of the lord is the same as the rapture it might make sense but that would be a post trib rapture which out of all the rapture views seems the most unlikely. Not to say you are wrong I am simply looking at this from a spectator point of view. It is true that i lean more towards a pre wrath rapture not only because of all I have already spoken on that matter in this thread but there is also something I am pondering about.

    You see even from my first year of being saved i have had this deep desire to serve God and others in the tribulation and to shine his love and light in a time of blood and darkness when his heart and hope will be needed the most, I have no idea where this deep desire came from it just suddenly one day sprouted inside me before i even knew what the rapture was. For a long while I have told God if i could have it my way I would love to be able to go and be with him for a time and to receive the treasures i have exhaustively sought after- that being his heart and having a love with him for him and for all others that is deeper and more beautiful more amazing and more power powerful than what anyone has ever had with him, I wanted to push the boundaries and test the limits I wanted to see exactly how deep and how amazing a kind of love bond and connection with him can truly be.

    Honestly I had not thought about my wish of the rapture and the tribulation for about a year or so when one night i had a dream in when i was on earth with my family and a King suddenly appeared and asked me if I wanted to live with him in his kingdom as royalty, he was giving me a choice for some reason. I could stay or go with him and even though I loved my family I said I would go. in an instant we suddenly were way way up in the sky in a realm or dimension that no person could ever hope to reach and in this realm I recall that in his kingdom I was rich and was royalty I even had a sense of what it felt like to be royalty it was a feeling I don't know how to put into words.

    However I looked down on the earth it had become very poor and since I was rich I wanted to share my vast riches with everyone on earth. I didn't understand the meaning of this dream for a long time but what I think it means is it's confirmation of my request to God. The king was Jesus his kingdom was heaven the riches I had were not gold and silver but the treasure I have long sought after in vast quantities the earth being poor is being spiritually poor a time when his love and his heart is needed the most and me wanting to share my treasures I believe is god sending me down to fulfill my request.

    Of course this is in no way evidence of my view being correct but i felt it was important to post this
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    Default Re: The Rapture

    Quote Originally Posted by 2nicee View Post
    I just started to study the rapture and the tribulation few days ago. I came across what every Christian is debating about. I alone believe in the mid tribulation rapture. I just want to get your view on this if you are pre-trib, mid-trib or post-trib rapture believer. THANKS AND GOD BLESS
    Quote Originally Posted by Adstar View Post
    The scriptures do talk about us going to meet Him in the clouds.. But it does not say we will go to Heaven after we meet Him in the clouds.. He comes and we are caught up to meet Him on the day of His return..

    We will be coming right back down with Him to rule the earth with Him for 1000 Years..

    Revelation 20: KJV
    4 "And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. {5} But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. {6} Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years."


    Jesus actually hinted at this in the following parrable::

    Luke 19: KJV
    15 "And it came to pass, that when He was returned, having received the kingdom, then he commanded these servants to be called unto him, to whom he had given the money, that he might know how much every man had gained by trading. {16} Then came the first, saying, Lord, thy pound hath gained ten pounds. {17} And he said unto him, Well, thou good servant: because thou hast been faithful in a very little, have thou authority over ten cities. {18} And the second came, saying, Lord, thy pound hath gained five pounds. {19} And he said likewise to him, Be thou also over five cities."
    Yes,we are raptured pretrib,then after several years in heaven,as Jesus foretold at the last supper,and is depicted in mat 25,we return with him post trib.

    The rapture in rev 14 eliminates even a remote possibility of a post trib rapture.

    There is no such thing as a u turn on the clouds. Jesus examples of lot and Noah have no similarities to a post judgement u turn.

    Where is such an example in the word?
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    Default Re: The Rapture

    Quote Originally Posted by Ahwatukee View Post
    Hello VCO,

    Regardless of the word used, the word "Build" is in the future tense, meaning that the group that Jesus was speaking about that he was going to build had not previously existed. For you wouldn't build something that already existed.
    Would they Not use future tense to describe something that is YET to be finished some time in the Distant Future?

    DOES NOT GOD KEEP HIS PROMISES?


    Isaiah 62:5 (YLT)
    5 For a young man doth marry a virgin, Thy Builders do marry thee,
    With the joy of a bridegroom over a bride, Rejoice over thee doth thy God.


    Jeremiah 2:1-3 (NIV)
    1 The word of the LORD came to me:
    2 "Go and proclaim in the hearing of Jerusalem: "'I remember the devotion of your youth, how as a bride you loved me and followed me through the desert, through a land not sown.
    3 Israel was holy to the LORD, the firstfruits of his harvest; all who devoured her were held guilty, and disaster overtook them,'" declares the LORD.


    Malachi 2:16 (NKJV)
    16 "For the LORD God of Israel says That He hates divorce, For it covers one's garment with violence," Says the LORD of hosts. "Therefore take heed to your spirit, That you do not deal treacherously."


    Ephesians 5:23-24 (HCSB)
    23 for the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church. He is the Savior of the body.
    24 Now as the church submits to Christ, so wives are to ⌊submit⌋ to their husbands in everything.


    I DO NOT SEE A DIVORCE THERE, FOLLOWED BY A RE-CHOOSING OF ANOTHER BRIDE.

    I SEE A CONTINUATION OF THE BUILDING OF HIS ASSEMBLY, HIS CHOSEN BRIDE, TRUE BELIEVERS OF ALL TIME.

    Hence this is the correct translation:


    Ephesians 5:23-24 (YLT)
    23 because the husband is head of the wife, as also the Christ is head of the assembly, and he is saviour of the body,
    24 but even as the assembly is subject to Christ, so also are the wives to their own husbands in everything.


    O.T. Saints believed GOD, that HE would send a Messiah to deliver them from their sins.

    N.T. Saints believe GOD, that He did send the Messiah, Jesus Christ, to deliver us from our sins.


    THAT IS THE SAME FAITH, True Believers with the FAITH of ABRAHAM.

    The Two Folds that will become one FLOCK at the Calling Out of the Bride of Christ.
    Last edited by VCO; April 24th, 2017 at 12:16 PM.

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    Default Re: The Rapture

    This just in.
    The rapture is a week from tomorrow.
    Get ready to meet your maker.
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    FOLLOW JESUS!

  17. #57
    popeye
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    Default Re: The Rapture

    Quote Originally Posted by Blain View Post
    The bible is not always so direct, meeting in the clouds is a symbolism and a reference of the heavens. As for coming right back to rule for a 1000 years that I am not so sure about, I mean if in fact you are correct and the day of the lord is the same as the rapture it might make sense but that would be a post trib rapture which out of all the rapture views seems the most unlikely. Not to say you are wrong I am simply looking at this from a spectator point of view. It is true that i lean more towards a pre wrath rapture not only because of all I have already spoken on that matter in this thread but there is also something I am pondering about.

    You see even from my first year of being saved i have had this deep desire to serve God and others in the tribulation and to shine his love and light in a time of blood and darkness when his heart and hope will be needed the most, I have no idea where this deep desire came from it just suddenly one day sprouted inside me before i even knew what the rapture was. For a long while I have told God if i could have it my way I would love to be able to go and be with him for a time and to receive the treasures i have exhaustively sought after- that being his heart and having a love with him for him and for all others that is deeper and more beautiful more amazing and more power powerful than what anyone has ever had with him, I wanted to push the boundaries and test the limits I wanted to see exactly how deep and how amazing a kind of love bond and connection with him can truly be.

    Honestly I had not thought about my wish of the rapture and the tribulation for about a year or so when one night i had a dream in when i was on earth with my family and a King suddenly appeared and asked me if I wanted to live with him in his kingdom as royalty, he was giving me a choice for some reason. I could stay or go with him and even though I loved my family I said I would go. in an instant we suddenly were way way up in the sky in a realm or dimension that no person could ever hope to reach and in this realm I recall that in his kingdom I was rich and was royalty I even had a sense of what it felt like to be royalty it was a feeling I don't know how to put into words.

    However I looked down on the earth it had become very poor and since I was rich I wanted to share my vast riches with everyone on earth. I didn't understand the meaning of this dream for a long time but what I think it means is it's confirmation of my request to God. The king was Jesus his kingdom was heaven the riches I had were not gold and silver but the treasure I have long sought after in vast quantities the earth being poor is being spiritually poor a time when his love and his heart is needed the most and me wanting to share my treasures I believe is god sending me down to fulfill my request.

    Of course this is in no way evidence of my view being correct but i felt it was important to post this
    ...not to mention the fact that the rapture in rev 14 of ripe fruit (probably messianic Jews), makes a post trib rapture impossible.

    Pretrib is the only one left standing after careful exegesis.
    Last edited by popeye; April 24th, 2017 at 12:18 PM.
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  18. #58
    popeye
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    Default Re: The Rapture

    Quote Originally Posted by VCO View Post
    Would they Not use future tense to describe something that is YET to be finished some time in the Distant Future?

    DOES NOT GOD KEEP HIS PROMISES?


    Isaiah 62:5 (YLT)
    5 For a young man doth marry a virgin, Thy Builders do marry thee,
    With the joy of a bridegroom over a bride, Rejoice over thee doth thy God.


    Jeremiah 2:1-3 (NIV)
    1 The word of the LORD came to me:
    2 "Go and proclaim in the hearing of Jerusalem: "'I remember the devotion of your youth, how as a bride you loved me and followed me through the desert, through a land not sown.
    3 Israel was holy to the LORD, the firstfruits of his harvest; all who devoured her were held guilty, and disaster overtook them,'" declares the LORD.


    Malachi 2:16 (NKJV)
    16 "For the LORD God of Israel says That He hates divorce, For it covers one's garment with violence," Says the LORD of hosts. "Therefore take heed to your spirit, That you do not deal treacherously."


    Ephesians 5:23-24 (HCSB)
    23 for the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church. He is the Savior of the body.
    24 Now as the church submits to Christ, so wives are to ⌊submit⌋ to their husbands in everything.


    I DO NOT SEE A DIVORCE THERE, FOLLOWED BY A RE-CHOOSING OF ANOTHER BRIDE.

    I SEE A CONTINUATION OF THE BUILDING OF HIS ASSEMBLY, HIS CHOSEN BRIDE, TRUE BELIEVERS OF ALL TIME.

    Hence this is the correct translation:


    Ephesians 5:23-24 (YLT)
    23 because the husband is head of the wife, as also the Christ is head of the assembly, and he is saviour of the body,
    24 but even as the assembly is subject to Christ, so also are the wives to their own husbands in everything.


    O.T. Saints believed GOD, that HE would send a Messiah to deliver them from their sins.

    N.T. Saints believe GOD, that He did send the Messiah, Jesus Christ, to deliver us from our sins.


    THAT IS THE SAME FAITH, True Believers with the FAITH of ABRAHAM.

    The Two Folds that will become one FLOCK at the Calling Out of the Bride of Christ.
    The book of Ruth vividly tells the story of the gentile bride.

  19. #59


    VCO
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    Default Re: The Rapture

    Quote Originally Posted by samuel23 View Post
    I am post-trib pre-wrath rapture, however at this time I do not see the 7th trumpet as being the last trumpet that Paul said would signal Christ return. I see the church going out at the 6th seal as verified by them being in Heaven in Rev 7 and that is before any of the trumpet blasts. I see the trumpet blasts as part of the wrath of God, so I see the church gone before any of the trumpet blasts. My thoughts are not set in stone, any new evidence will be examined.
    Sam, there is another possibility for the phrase "last trump". At the time of Christ, the Roman Army used THREE TRUMPET BLASTS, the same way the American Military uses:
    1. FALL IN;
    2. TEN HUT;
    3. Forward March (the last trump).


    1 Thessalonians 4:16-18 (KJV)
    16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
    17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
    18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

    1 Corinthians 15:51-55 (ASV)
    51 Behold, I tell you a mystery: We all shall not sleep, but we shall all be changed,
    52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
    53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
    54 But when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall come to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
    55 O death, where is thy victory? O death, where is thy sting?


    Personally I, do not think it has a thing to do with the Trumpet Judgments.
    Last edited by VCO; April 24th, 2017 at 01:20 PM.

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    Default Re: The Rapture

    Quote Originally Posted by AllenW View Post
    This just in.
    The rapture is a week from tomorrow.
    Get ready to meet your maker.
    Okay, then a week from tomorrow, will be a safe day to put up my sign, GONE FISHING.

    t t t
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