The Rapture

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Apr 23, 2017
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sekkluud boi lets put this matthew 24 70ad thing to rest u see...........

matthew 24:30-31
[FONT=&quot]30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

when did this happen?????????? never thats when........ so lets put this to rest....... matthew 24:30-31 is not about 70ad thats for sure......... because that didnt happen. and if it did, it was the lamest return in history......... [/FONT]
 

Locutus

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Feb 10, 2017
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There's more:

Rev 1:4 John to the seven churches which are in Asia: Grace be unto you, and peace, from him which is, and which was, and which is to come; and from the seven Spirits which are before his throne;

Rev 1:6 And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

1st century application of being "seated" with him in the heavens.
 

Locutus

Senior Member
Feb 10, 2017
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sekkluud boi lets put this matthew 24 70ad thing to rest u see...........

matthew 24:30-31
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

when did this happen?????????? never thats when........ so lets put this to rest....... matthew 24:30-31 is not about 70ad thats for sure......... because that didnt happen. and if it did, it was the lamest return in history.........
Of course it is - "coming with clouds" is biblespeak for the Romans armies coming in judgement in the war of 66-70 AD, when God judged nations in the old testament he was said to be "riding the clouds" etc.
 
Apr 23, 2017
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Of course it is - "coming with clouds" is biblespeak for the Romans armies coming in judgement in the war of 66-70 AD, when God judged nations in the old testament he was said to be "riding the clouds" etc.
the roman army is Jesus???????? sound slippery......... if Jesus is/was the roman army then today's boxers make more flashy entrances and the "coming with clouds" was the weakest cloud coming of all time.............
 

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
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I heard on the radio about a company requiring their employees to have a chip imbedded between the forefinger and thumb
To get off subject here for a moment, you are correct in your mention of the company in Wisconsin offering their employees RFID chip implants under the skin of the hand. God bless you for recognizing its significance. If you would like here is the information that I have regarding this technology that will eventually become the mark of the beast:

Swedish office staff offered implants to access facilities - BBC News

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?...C5293894ECC971F10B69C5293894ECC971F&FORM=VIRE

Company to install microchips in employees

Regarding doing a study on Revelation and end-time events, I have thought about it many times and will pray about it and consider it. If we to do this, I would have to basically put everyone on ignore that are preterists and amillennialist, because of the obvious. And then we could just focus on the study and those who really want to know how everything fits together and where we are currently in the relation to the end.

The Lord bless you for your desire to know his word regarding his book of Revelation and end-time events.

"Blessed is the one who reads aloud the words of this prophecy, and blessed are those who hear it and take to heart what is written in it, because the time is near."
 

Locutus

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Feb 10, 2017
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the roman army is Jesus???????? sound slippery......... if Jesus is/was the roman army then today's boxers make more flashy entrances and the "coming with clouds" was the weakest cloud coming of all time.............
The language is not literal Muzungu, he's using figurative language in the same manner the old prophets did.


Mat 26:64 Jesus saith unto him, Thou hast said: nevertheless I say unto you, Hereafter shall ye see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.

Mat 26:65 KJV Then the high priest rent his clothes, saying, He hath spoken blasphemy; what further need have we of witnesses? behold, now ye have heard his blasphemy.

Jesus is telling the high priest and the Sanhedrin that they will "see him coming" (maybe not all made it alive to 66-70 AD) - do you think they are still living today?

Do they get a second chance at life 1970 years later and counting to see him again - think about it...:p

It's sipple...when you don't literalize where literal is not intended.
 

Desertsrose

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2016
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Thanks, Ahwatukee,

I'll click on the links and read them later. I'm about to leave to run errands. :)And thanks for considering doing the study. Maybe you could ask in a separate thread if there are others who'd be interested who would join in the study.
 

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
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sekkluud boi lets put this matthew 24 70ad thing to rest u see...........

matthew 24:30-31
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

when did this happen?????????? never thats when........ so lets put this to rest....... matthew 24:30-31 is not about 70ad thats for sure......... because that didnt happen. and if it did, it was the lamest return in history.........
Amen Muzung256! Matt.2430-31 is synonymous with Rev.19:11-21, so when did the following ever happen?

==========================================================

I saw heaven standing open and there before me was a white horse, whose rider is called Faithful and True. With justice he judges and wages war. His eyes are like blazing fire, and on his head are many crowns. He has a name written on him that no one knows but he himself. He is dressed in a robe dipped in blood, and his name is the Word of God. The armies of heaven were following him, riding on white horses and dressed in fine linen, white and clean. Coming out of his mouth is a sharp sword with which to strike down the nations. “He will rule them with an iron scepter." He treads the winepress of the fury of the wrath of God Almighty. On his robe and on his thigh he has this name written:

king of kings and lord of lords.

And I saw an angel standing in the sun, who cried in a loud voice to all the birds flying in midair, “Come, gather together for the great supper of God, so that you may eat the flesh of kings, generals, and the mighty, of horses and their riders, and the flesh of all people, free and slave, great and small.”

Then I saw the beast and the kings of the earth and their armies gathered together to wage war against the rider on the horse and his army. But the beast was captured, and with it the false prophet who had performed the signs on its behalf. With these signs he had deluded those who had received the mark of the beast and worshiped its image. The two of them were thrown alive into the fiery lake of burning sulfur. The rest were killed with the sword coming out of the mouth of the rider on the horse, and all the birds gorged themselves on their flesh.

======================================================

I'm pretty sure that many would have recorded the above events. Not only that, but it would mean that we would have gone through the millennial period (the literal thousand years) and we would now be in the eternal state in our immortal and glorified bodies.

According to the belief of some here, everything has all be accomplished and the church and the world is just floating along with out any direction or purpose.
 
Apr 23, 2017
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The language is not literal Muzungu, he's using figurative language in the same manner the old prophets did.
why????????? what mind games is this where people cant mean what they say?????? u know i like the literal interpretation method a lot because atleast u dont gotta sit there wondering what mind games u are played with this time, if coming on the clouds doesnt mean coming on the clouds but roman armies why not just say it in a more plain sense?? how frustrating........
if i was a disciple thinking that its figurative i would constantly ask "but Jesus what do u raelly mean?"

i mean i see ur point the time area does fit and it does say in matt26 the high priest will see Jesus coming but come on bro isnt that just pretty deceptive to say u are coming on the clouds and all this supernatural stuff, but then its just a worldly army invasion????? i would feel scammed if that happened to me in the 1st century.........
 

Locutus

Senior Member
Feb 10, 2017
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why????????? what mind games is this where people cant mean what they say?????? u know i like the literal interpretation method a lot because atleast u dont gotta sit there wondering what mind games u are played with this time, if coming on the clouds doesnt mean coming on the clouds but roman armies why not just say it in a more plain sense?? how frustrating........
if i was a disciple thinking that its figurative i would constantly ask "but Jesus what do u raelly mean?"
Because the people of Israel were steeped in the language of the bible, to them it was daily life a living reality, and the scriptures are very poetically written. Figures and metaphors and exaggerated speech is how it's written. It's not a technical manual.

Example:

(Isa 30:26 KJV) Moreover the light of the moon shall be as the light of the sun, and the light of the sun shall be sevenfold, as the light of seven days, in the day that the LORD bindeth up the breach of his people, and healeth the stroke of their wound.

You would need Hiroshima strength sunblock to withstand that....:p
 
Apr 23, 2017
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Because the people of Israel were steeped in the language of the bible, to them it was daily life a living reality, and the scriptures are very poetically written. Figures and metaphors and exaggerated speech is how it's written. It's not a technical manual.

Example:

(Isa 30:26 KJV) Moreover the light of the moon shall be as the light of the sun, and the light of the sun shall be sevenfold, as the light of seven days, in the day that the LORD bindeth up the breach of his people, and healeth the stroke of their wound.

You would need Hiroshima strength sunblock to withstand that....:p
AAAAAAAAAAAAA.............
 
Mar 28, 2016
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Israel is being told to flee from tribulation in Matt.24:21, as can be deduced from the following:
The amil position works the best when looking how the parables are used to signfy the spiritual menings. Like for instance what does the word thousand years signify .Or what does a literal cahnge signify?

The veil is rent Christ has come once as a promised demonstration just as he promised. God is not a man as us. God is Spirit.

Not all Israel is Israel .it must be in respect to an inward born again Jew whom God named Christian to represent the one bride which as a new creation is neither male nor female Jew or Gentile. We walk by faith not looking the flesh of any man. Christ said his flesh profits for nothing


"So when you see standing in the holy place ‘the abomination that causes desolation,’ spoken of through the prophet Daniel—let the reader understand—then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains."
Yes Judea representing the true believers are to flee to all of the kingdoms(mountains) as denominations of the world .Baptizing men in the name of the Father Son and Holy Spirit .

The abomination that did cause desolation was performed in the judgment seat of Christ. He appeared in our place taking on the judgment of our sin. We will not come into condemnation Christ has already stood in our place

Joh 19:13 When Pilate therefore heard that saying, he brought Jesus forth, and sat down in the judgment seat in a place that is called the Pavement, but in the Hebrew, Gabbatha.


Therefore, along with the mention of the abomination being set up in the holy place within the temple, the warning for those who are in Judea to flee and the reference to the Sabbath, makes this all about Israel
.

The veil is rent.

Not all Israel is Israel .

Which ones… of the flesh as in natural unconverted man or those of the spiritual seed (one) Christ?
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
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Seeing how Christ in ONE WEEK confirmed the Abrahamic covenant, caused the sacrifices to cease by the sacrifice his own body and made Jerusalem desolate for the multitude of their abomniations, why would you think Daniel 9:27 is "The Antichrist" signing a 7 year peace treaty with Israel? Isn't that kind of like blaspheming Christ's work on the cross?
READ DANIEL chapter 9 about the Seventy Weeks, and you will see they are weeks of Years.


Daniel 9:24-27 (NASB)
[SUP]24 [/SUP] "Seventy weeks have been decreed for your people {blood Israelites, not the Church} and your holy city, to finish the transgression, to make an end of sin, to make atonement for iniquity, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most holy place. {SEE, this Prophecy GOES INTO a time period where there is EVERLASTING RIGHTEOUSNESS. NOT 70 consecutive weeks of years. THE GAP, is the Church-age between the end of the 69th week and the beginning of the 70th week of years.}
[SUP]25 [/SUP] "So you are to know and discern that from the issuing of a decree to restore and rebuild Jerusalem until Messiah the Prince there will be seven weeks and sixty-two weeks; it will be built again, with plaza and moat, even in times of distress.
[SUP]26 [/SUP] "Then after the sixty-two weeks the Messiah will be cut off {NOTE that is AFTER THE 7 WEEKS, AND AFTER THE 62 WEEKS ENDS, AND BEFORE THE 70TH WEEK OF YEARS BEGINS IN VERSE 27. THAT IS THE AGE OF MESSIAH BEING CUT OFF AND THE AGE THAT EVENT SPAWNS, WHICH IS THE CHURCH AGE.} and have nothing, and the people of the prince who is to come will destroy the city and the sanctuary.
{THAT IS THE ROMAN EMPEROR TITUS, WHO DESTROYED JERUSALEM AND THE TEMPLE IN 70 AD.} And its end will come with a flood; even to the end there will be war; desolations are determined. {SEE IT? The 70th week of DANIEL happens at the time of the END. It has been there all along in PLAIN SITE.}
[SUP]27 [/SUP] "And he* will make a firm covenant with the many for one week {
*The last person mentioned is the person leading the ROMAN EMPIRE in 70 AD; SO this prophecy is after the time of the END begins, but no mention of a DIFFERENT Empire being involved in the following prophecies. Therefore it is a revival of the Roman Empire, with a Different Emperor at the time of the END.}, but in the middle of the week he will put a stop to sacrifice and grain offering; and on the wing of abominations will come one who makes desolate, even until a complete destruction, one that is decreed, is poured out on the one who makes desolate."

NOTE the Decree of Artaxerxes's is a DOCUMENTED HISTORICAL EVENT, and the amount of time it took them rebuild Jerusalem including the TEMPLE was 49 years (7 WEEKS OF YEARS), and that was 434 years before Christ rode into Jerusalem on a Donkey {as Messiah the Prince}. THAT is the END of the 62 weeks and Christ is crucified AFTER THAT, BUT BEFORE THE 70th Week, which happens at the time of the END, it says so. THAT INFORMATION HAS BEEN THERE ALL THE TIME, IN PLAIN SITE. MANY MISS IT BECAUSE THEY ARE ONLY LOOKING TO PROVE THEIR PRESUPPOSITIONS, AND NOT REALLY TRYING TO SERIOUSLY PAY ATTENTION TO WHAT HE IS ACTUALLY SAYING.

Look how verse 24 is worded in Young's Literal Translation.

Daniel 9:24 (YLT)
[SUP]24 [/SUP] `Seventy weeks are determined for thy people, and for thy holy city, to shut up the transgression, and to seal up sins, and to cover iniquity, and to bring in righteousness age-during, and to seal up vision and prophet, and to anoint the holy of holies.

If the TEMPLE in the Millennium is where CHRIST HIMSELF will sit when People come to worship HIM, THE HOLY OF HOLIES, IT WILL BE ANOINTED BECAUSE THE ANOINTED ONE WILL BE PRESENT, SEATED ON THE MERCY SEAT, AND REIGNING AS KING. He is IN THE ORDER OF MELCHIZEDEK, in that HE will be a Non-Levitte High Priest and KING of Judah AND THE WORLD, ALL at the same TIME.


Zechariah 14:16-17 (HCSB)
[SUP]16 [/SUP] Then all the survivors from the nations that came against Jerusalem will go up year after year to worship the King, the LORD of Hosts, and to celebrate the Festival of Booths.
[SUP]17 [/SUP] Should any of the families of the earth not go up to Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of Hosts, rain will not fall on them.


Here is Dr. John MacArthur's comments on those verses, if you would like to read them.

9:24-26 Seventy weeks... from... until. These are weeks of years, whereas weeks of days are described in a different way (10:2, 3). The time spans from Artaxerxes’s decree to rebuild Jerusalem, c. 445 b.c. (Neh. 2:1-8), to the Messiah’s kingdom. This panorama includes: (1) seven weeks or forty-nine years, possibly closing Nehemiah’s career in the rebuilding of the “street and wall,” as well as the end of the ministry of Malachi and the close of the OT; (2) sixty-two weeks or 434 more years for a total of 483 years to the First Advent of Messiah. This was fulfilled at the triumphal entry on 9 Nisan, a.d. 30 (see notes on Matt. 21:1-9). The Messiah will be “cut off,” (a common reference to death); and (3) the final seven years or seventieth week of the time of Antichrist (cf. v. 27). Roman people, from whom the Antichrist will come, will “destroy the city” of Jerusalem and its temple in a.d. 70.
Key Word
Confess: 9:4—lit. “to throw” or “to cast off.” This Hebrew verb conveys the act of “casting off” sin and acknowledging rebellion against God’s commandments (Neh. 1:6, 9:2; Ps. 32:3; Prov. 28:13). Confession also conveys thanksgiving for God’s greatness (1 Kin. 8:33, 35). Confession of sin is thanksgiving because it recognizes the grace and goodness of God’s forgiveness (2 Chr. 30:22).

9:24. This highly complex and amazingly accurate prophecy answers Daniel’s prayer, not with reference to near history, but by referencing the far future of Israel at the end of the age. God promises two sets of three accomplishments each. First, those related to sin are: (1) finish the transgression, i.e., restrain sin and Israel’s in particular during its long trend of apostasy, as in verse 11; (2) make an end of sins, i.e., to judge sin with finality (cf. Heb. 9:26); and (3) make reconciliation for iniquity, signifies to furnish the actual basis of covering sin by full atonement, the blood of the crucified Messiah who is “cut off” (v. 26), which affects the first two realities (cf. the fountain, Zech. 13:1).
Second, those accomplishments related to righteousness are: (1) bring in... righteousness, the eternal righteousness of Daniel’s people in their great change from centuries of apostasy; (2) seal up vision, i.e., no more revelation is needed and God will bring these anticipations to completion by their fulfillment in Israel’s blessing as a nation; and (3) anoint the Most Holy, consecrate the Holy Place in a future temple that will be the center of worship in the millennial kingdom (cf. Ezek. 40-48). Clearly, this must be understood as sweeping to the end of Gentile power and the time of Antichrist right before Christ’s return. Summing up, the first three are fulfilled in principle at Christ’s First Coming, in full at His return. The last three complete the plan at His Second Advent.
9:27 Then. This is surely the end of the age, the Second Advent judgment, because the bringing in of righteousness did not occur seven years after the death of the Messiah, nor did the destruction of Jerusalem fit the seven-year period (occurring thirty-seven years later). This is the future seven-year period which ends with sin’s final judgment and Christ’s reign of righteousness; i.e., the return of Christ and the establishment of His rule. These seven years constitute the seventieth week of Daniel. he shall confirm. He is the last-mentioned prince (v. 26), leader of the Roman sphere (cf. chs. 2; 7), the Antichrist who comes in the latter days. The time is in the future Tribulation period of “one week,” i.e., the final seven years of verse 24. He confirms (lit., causes to prevail) a seven-year covenant, his own pact with Israel, that will actually turn out to be for a shorter time. The leader in this covenant is the “little horn” of 7:7, 8, 20, 21, 24-26, and the evil leader found in NT prophecy (Mark 13:14; 2 Thess. 2:3-10; Rev. 13:1-10). That he is in the future, even after Christ’s First Advent, is shown by: (1) Matthew 24:15; (2) the time references that match (7:25; Rev. 11:2, 3; 12:14; 13:5); and (3) the end extending to the Second Advent, matching the duration elsewhere mentioned in Daniel (2:35, 45; 7:15ff.; 12:1-3) and Revelation 11:2; 12:14; 13:5. middle of the week. This is the halfway point of the seventieth week of years, i.e., seven years leading to Christ’s Second Coming. The Antichrist will break his covenant with Israel (v. 27a), which has resumed its ancient sacrificial system. Three and one-half years of Tribulation remain, agreeing with the time in other Scriptures (7:25; Rev. 11:2, 3; 12:14; 13:5, called “Great Tribulation,” cf. Matt. 24:21) as a period when God’s wrath intensifies. abominations... one who makes desolate. The Antichrist will cause abomination against Jewish religion. This violation will desolate or ruin what Jews regard as sacred, namely their holy temple and the honoring of God’s presence there (cf. 1 Kin. 9:3; 2 Thess. 2:4). Jesus refers directly to this text in His Olivet discourse (Matt. 24:15). See note on 11:31. the consummation. God permits this tribulation during the Antichrist’s persecutions and then ultimately triumphs by judging the sin and sinners in Israel (12:7) and in the world (cf. Jer. 25:31). This includes the Antichrist (11:45; Rev. 19:20), and all who deserve judgment (9:24; Matt. 13:41-43).

The MacArthur Bible Commentary.
 
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VCO

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Oct 14, 2013
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I sincerely hope I get to watch you and your ilk stand before the Lord and explain YOUR VIEW of Daniel 9:27 to him.
Okey, I will ask HIM for such an appointment with the two of us, so that when you finally get there, we can have that three way conference, if such a thing in permitted.
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
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I sincerely hope I get to watch you and your ilk stand before the Lord and explain YOUR VIEW of Daniel 9:27 to him.
Just so you know, I get those teachings from the Best Bible Teachers in the Land.


Dr. John MacAurther, Jr.
President of the Master's College and Seminary


9:27 This is clearly the end of the age, the Second Advent judgment, because the bringing in of righteousness did not occur 7 years after the death of the Messiah, nor did the destruction of Jerusalem fit the 7 year period (occurring 37 years later). This is the future 7 year period which ends with sin's final judgment and Christ's reign of righteousness; i.e., the return of Christ and the establishment of His rule. These 7 years constitute the 70th week of Daniel. he will make a firm covenant. "He" is the last-mentioned prince (v. 26), leader of the Roman sphere (cf. chaps. 2 and 7), the Antichrist who comes in the latter days. The time is in the future tribulation period of "one week," i.e., the final 7 years of v. 24. He confirms (lit., causes to prevail) a 7 year covenant, his own pact with Israel for what will turn out actually to be for a shorter time. The leader in this covenant is the "little horn" of 7:7, 8, 20, 21, 24-26, and the evil leader of NT prophecy (Mk 13:14; 2Th 2:3-10; Rev 13:1-10). That he is in the future, even after Christ's First Advent, is shown by 1) Mt 24:15; 2) by the time references that match (7:25; Rev 11:2, 3; 12:14; 13:5); and 3) by the end here extending to the Second Advent, matching the duration elsewhere mentioned in Daniel (2:35, 45; 7:15ff.; 12:1-3) and Rev 11:2; 12:14; 13:5. middle of the week. This is the halfway point of the 70th week of years, i.e., 7 years leading to Christ's second coming. The Antichrist will break his covenant with Israel (v. 27a), which has resumed its ancient sacrificial system. Three and a half years of tribulation remain, agreeing with the time in other Scriptures (7:25; Rev 11:2, 3; 12:14; 13:5; called "great tribulation," cf. Mt 24:21) as God's wrath intensifies. abominations... one who makes desolate. The Antichrist will cause abomination against Jewish religion. This violation will desolate or ruin what Jews regard as sacred, namely their holy temple and the honoring of God's presence there (cf. 1Ki 9:3; 2Th 2:4). Jesus refers directly to this text in His Olivet discourse (Mt 24:15). See 11:31 [note]. complete destruction. God permits this tribulation under the Antichrist's persecutions and ultimately triumphs, achieving judgment of the sin and sinners in Israel (12:7) and in the world (cf. Jer 25:31). This includes the Antichrist (11:45; Rev 19:20), and all who deserve judgment (9:24; Mt 13:41-43).
The MacArthur Study Bible.

The DALLAS THEOLOGICAL SEMINARY Professors

9:27a. This verse unveils what will occur in the 70th seven years. This seven-year period will begin after the Rapture of the church (which will consummate God's program in this present Age). The 70th "seven" will continue till the return of Jesus Christ to the earth. Because Jesus said this will be a time of "great distress" (Matt. 24:21), this period is often called the Tribulation.
A significant event that will mark the beginning of this seven-year period is the confirming of a covenant. This covenant will be made with many, that is, with Daniel's people, the nation Israel. "The ruler who will come" (Dan. 9:26) will be this covenant-maker, for that person is the antecedent of the word he in verse 27. As a yet-future ruler he will be the final head of the fourth empire (the little horn of the fourth beast, 7:8).
The covenant he will make will evidently be a peace covenant, in which he will guarantee Israel's safety in the land. This suggests that Israel will be in her land but will be unable to defend herself for she will have lost any support she may have had previously. Therefore she will need and welcome the peacemaking role of this head of the confederation of 10 European (Roman) nations. In offering this covenant, this ruler will pose as a prince of peace, and Israel will accept his authority. But then in the middle of that "seven," after three and one-half years, he will break the covenant. According to 11:45, he will then move from Europe into the land of Israel.
This ruler will end... sacrifice and offering. This expression refers to the entire Levitical system, which suggests that Israel will have restored that system in the first half of the 70th "seven." After this ruler gains worldwide political power, he will assume power in the religious realm as well and will cause the world to worship him (2 Thes. 2:4; Rev. 13:8). To receive such worship, he will terminate all organized religions. Posing as the world's rightful king and god and as Israel's prince of peace, he will then turn against Israel and become her destroyer and defiler.
9:27b. Daniel was told that "the ruler who will come" (v. 26) will place abominations on a wing of the temple. Christ referred to this incident: "You [will] see standing in the holy place the abomination that causes desolation" (Matt. 24:15). John wrote that the false prophet will set up an image to this ruler and that the world will be compelled to worship it (Rev. 13:14-15). But then his end will come (the end that is decreed is poured out on him). With his false prophet he will be cast into the lake of fire when Christ returns to the earth (Rev. 19:20; cf. Dan. 7:11, 26).
This covenant could not have been made or confirmed by Christ at His First Advent, as amillenarians teach, because: (a) His ministry did not last seven years, (b) His death did not stop sacrifices and offerings, (c) He did not set up "the abomination that causes desolation" (Matt. 24:15). Amillenarians suggest that Christ confirmed (in the sense of fulfilling) the Abrahamic Covenant but the Gospels give no indication He did that in His First Advent.
As stated, the Antichrist will break his covenant with Israel at the beginning of the second half of the 70th "seven," that is, it will be broken for three and one-half years. This is called "a time, times, and half a time" (Dan. 7:25; 12:7; Rev. 12:14). The fact that this is the same as the three and one-half years, which in turn are equated with 1,260 days (Rev. 11:3; 12:6) and with 42 months (Rev. 11:2; 13:5), means that in Jewish reckoning each month has 30 days and each year 360 days. This confirms the 360-day Jewish year used in the calculations in the chart, "The 483 Years in the Jewish and Gregorian Calendars" (near Dan. 9:26a). Since the events in the 69 sevens (vv. 24-26) were fulfilled literally, the 70th "seven," yet unfulfilled, must likewise be fulfilled literally.
The Bible Knowledge Commentary: An Exposition of the Scriptures by Dallas Seminary Faculty.

BELIEVER'S BIBLE COMENTARY
by Dr. William MacDonald (Author), and Dr. Arthur L. Farstad (Editor)

9:27 We now come to the seventieth week. As mentioned previously, there is a time gap between the sixty-ninth and seventieth weeks. This parenthetical period is the Church Age, which extends from Pentecost to the Rapture. It is never mentioned specifically in the OT; it was a secret hidden in God from the foundation of the world but revealed by the apostles and prophets of the NT period. However, the principle of a gap is nicely illustrated by our Lord in the synagogue at Nazareth (Luke 4:18, 19). Jesus quoted Isaiah 61:1, 2a but cut it short at "the acceptable year of the Lord" (His First Advent), and left off the judgment of His Second Advent: "and the day of vengeance of our God" (Isa. 61:2b). In between was to occur the whole Church Age.
Then he (the Roman prince) shall confirm a covenant with many (the unbelieving majority of the nation of Israel) for one week (the seven-year Tribulation Period). It may be a friendship treaty, a non-aggression treaty, or a guarantee of military assistance against any nation attacking Israel.
But in the middle of the week he shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering. The Roman prince will turn hostile toward Israel, forbidding further sacrifices and offerings to Jehovah.
And on the wing of abominations. We learn from Matthew 24:15 that he will set up an abominable idolatrous image in the temple and presumably he will command that it be worshiped. Some think that wing here refers to a wing of the temple.
Shall be one who makes desolate. He will persecute and destroy those who refuse to worship the image.
Even until the consummation, which is determined, is poured out on the desolate. Terrible persecution of the Jews will continue for the last half of the seventieth week, a period known as the Great Tribulation. Then the Roman prince, "the one who makes desolate," will himself be destroyed, as decreed by God, by being cast into the lake of fire (Rev. 19:20).

Believer's Bible Commentary: A Thorough, Yet Easy-to-Read Bible Commentary That Turns Complicated Theology Into Practical Understanding.

THRU THE BIBLE
J. VERNON MCGEE


The starting point for this period of 490 years is essential to the correct understanding of the prophecy. Since this period is projected into the Times of the Gentiles, it must fit into secular history and originate from some date connected with the Times of the Gentiles. Of course there have been many suggestions for a starting point: the decree of Cyrus (see Ezra 1:1-4); the decree of Darius (see Ezra 6:1-12); the decree of Artaxerxes -- at the seventh year of his reign (Ezra 7:11-26); but I feel that the decree of Artaxerxes in the twentieth year of his reign (Neh. 2:1-8) meets the requirements of verse 25. The commandment to rebuild the city of Jerusalem was issued in the month Nisan 445 B.C. That, then, will be our starting point.
The first seven weeks of forty-nine years bring us to 397 B.C. and to Malachi and the end of the Old Testament. These were "troublous times," as witnessed by both Nehemiah and Malachi.
Sixty-two weeks, or 434 years, bring us to the Messiah. Sir Robert Anderson in his book, The Coming Prince, has worked out the time schedule. From the first of the month Nisan to the tenth of Nisan (April 6) A.D. 32, is 173,880 days. Dividing them according to the Jewish year of 360 days, he arrives at 483 years (69 sevens). On this day Jesus rode into Jerusalem, offering Himself for the first time, publicly and officially, as the Messiah.
After the 69 weeks, or 483 years, there is a time break. Between the sixty-ninth and Seventieth Week two events of utmost importance are to take place:
1. Messiah will be cut off. This was the crucifixion of Christ, the great mystery and truth of the gospel: "From that time forth began Jesus to shew unto his disciples, how that he must go unto Jerusalem, and suffer many things of the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and be raised again the third day" (Matt. 16:21). "That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life" (John 3:15).
2. Destruction of Jerusalem, which took place in A.D. 70, when Titus the Roman was the instrument.
The final "week" (the seventieth), a period of seven years, is projected into the future and does not follow chronologically the other sixty-nine. The time gap between the sixty-ninth and seventieth weeks is the age of grace -- unknown to the prophets (Eph. 3:1-12; 1Pet. 1:10-12). The Seventieth Week is eschatological; it is the final period and is yet unfulfilled.
"The prince" is a Roman; he is the "little horn" of Daniel 7; he is "the beast" of Revelation 13. After the church is removed from the earth, he will make a covenant with Israel. Israel will accept him as her Messiah, but in the midst of the "week" he will break his covenant by placing an image in the temple (Rev. 13). This is the abomination of desolation. What Israel thought to be the Millennium will turn out to be the Great Tribulation (Matt. 24:15-26). Only the coming of Christ can end this frightful period (Matt. 24:27-31).
My friend, you and I are living in the age of grace, and the Seventieth Week of Daniel, the Great Tribulation, as the Lord Jesus called it, is yet to take place.

Thru The Bible with J. Vernon McGee.
 
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PlainWord

Senior Member
Jun 11, 2013
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To AHW, VCO and MUZ,

Would you agree much of the Bible is devoted to the major events of Israel throughout her history? Much time is spent detailing her sins and punishments throughout the centuries. Every major prophet spent a vast amount of time discussing her Babylonian captivity. Don't you find it odd that (according to you) that few, if any, time was spend on discussing her end in 70 AD? Why skip that event? If you do see 70 AD discussed, which passages do you feel discuss it?
 

PlainWord

Senior Member
Jun 11, 2013
7,080
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the roman army is Jesus???????? sound slippery......... if Jesus is/was the roman army then today's boxers make more flashy entrances and the "coming with clouds" was the weakest cloud coming of all time.............

According to Josephus some very strange things (supernatural things) were happening back then. Does the below sound a little familiar? Shortly after this, Israel fell.

...a certain prodigious and incredible phenomenon appeared: I suppose the account of it would seem to be a fable, were it not related by those that saw it, and were not the events that followed it of so considerable a nature as to deserve such signals; for, before sun-setting, chariots and troops of soldiers in their armor were seen running about among the clouds, and surrounding of cities.


There are two dimensions (at least), the physical temporal and the spiritual eternal. In Rev John was taken into the spiritual realm and shown things both in that realm and in our earthly realm. Many on here can only think in our dimension. They cannot comprehend the spiritual side which is really the important side. Over and over I hear from some that history hasn't recorded this or that so it must be future. Forgetting for a moment that when I show history recording things, they still ignore it, instead consider what Paul says in 2 Cor 4:

[SUP]18 [/SUP]while we do not look at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen. For the things which are seen are temporary, but the things which are not seen are eternal.

The really big and important things (like the resurrection) are not seen by mortal men on earth. The spiritual body is eternal therefore it is not seen. I would also suggest people who have gone ahead and are in the spiritual realm can clearly see into our realm, but we cannot see into theirs. Think of it like a two- way mirror. They can see us, but we can't see them.