The Rapture

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Nov 23, 2013
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The HISTORICAL RECORDS PROVE that DANIEL was REFERRING to weeks of Years and that a week in those prophecies was a Seven Year Period. SO ACCURATE THAT JESUS RODE RODE THAT DONKEY INTO JERUSALEM EXACTLY ON TIME. In fact I believe it was EXACT to the very HOUR Artaxerxes wrote the DECREE to go rebuild Jerusalem and the Temple.



Whoever designed the above Chart, clearly did not want to get involved in the argument we now have ongoing for 347 pages plus. Therefore he left the Rapture completely out of Chart. I chose to post this chart because he is showing how you arrive at the correct number of years to get to the Crucifixion of Christ. What Many English speaking people do is use to the Julian or Gregorian Calendar, and thus they will argue that Christ was not Crucified in 33 AD. When you use the Jewish Calendar it is 5 days shorter, and then you HAVE TO REMEMBER that ever few years they throw in a LEAP MONTH to even it out; you then come up with Christ being Crucified on April 6, 33 AD. Forget to add in those LEAP MONTHS and you come up with a completely different year for the Crucifixion. Above he even NOTED that he added 24 days to the Gregorian Count, which I am unsure where he got that, but may be due to the fact he is counting to the crucifixion, when I have always been taught that count ends at the day Christ rode into Jerusalem on the Donkey. He also left the 3.5 year mark out the 70th Week, but we all know that was part of the Prophecy in Dan. 9:27.
Prove from the bible only that Daniel's 70 weeks are weeks of years.
 
Nov 23, 2013
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Eventually, probably. It's in God's hands. He made it, He can destroy it, if mankind doesn't beat Him to it.
Is something as major as the end of the sinful world not even mentioned in the bible?
 
May 11, 2014
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I cannot speak for the rest, but I think every new angle and idea regarding eschatology is refreshing to read. There are many, and with the way things were fulfilled in the past, the odds are all of ours are wrong.
The disciples were completely oblivious as to what was going on, and they were witnessing it first hand.
 
Nov 23, 2013
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I cannot speak for the rest, but I think every new angle and idea regarding eschatology is refreshing to read. There are many, and with the way things were fulfilled in the past, the odds are all of ours are wrong.
The disciples were completely oblivious as to what was going on, and they were witnessing it first hand.
I think if we let the bible say what it says and not change it or bend it to our own ideas, we can understand a lot of prophecy.
 

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
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Is something as major as the end of the sinful world not even mentioned in the bible?
Hello KJV1611,

The end of the world i.e. the decimation of the majority of the earths population and the dismantling of all human government via the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments, is exactly what the majority of the book of Revelation is about, "the things that must soon take place." (Rev.1:1)
 

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
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To AHW, VCO and MUZ,

Would you agree much of the Bible is devoted to the major events of Israel throughout her history? Much time is spent detailing her sins and punishments throughout the centuries. Every major prophet spent a vast amount of time discussing her Babylonian captivity. Don't you find it odd that (according to you) that few, if any, time was spend on discussing her end in 70 AD? Why skip that event? If you do see 70 AD discussed, which passages do you feel discuss it?
Greetins PlainWord,

Well first of all, the prophets spoke only what they were given by God to speak. Therefore, it would depend on whether or not God gave them that information to be revealed.

Jesus revealed the destruction of the temple, which took place in 70 AD, when He told his disciples that not one stone would not be left upon another, everyone of them would be toppled. The rest of the Olivet discourse was directed at the 2nd part of the disciples question i.e. the signs that would signal his return and the end of the age.

What is important and critical, is to not misapply one event to a completely separate event in order to force fulfillment.
 

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
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One thing you can't deny nor dispute - When Jesus made his triumphal entry on palm Sunday going forth conquering and to conquer,
The error that you made in your post, is that you took Jesus triumphal entry and misapplied that event as referring to him as being the rider on the white horse at the opening of the 1st seal, who "goes out to conquer and is bent on conquest."

You also misapplied Jesus as confirming the covenant, when no covenant was made, which is in reference to Dan.9:27. You also have a big problem with interpreting Jesus as the one who establishes the covenant with Israel for that seven year period in that, the "He" of Dan.9:27 is also the one who sets up the abomination in the holy place within the temple. The bdelugma translated "abomination" is defined as a reeking stench that goes up before God and denotes imagery, idols. Therefore, by making Jesus the one who established the seven year covenant, you also make him the one who sets up the abomination, which would be blasphemy against the Father and himself.
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
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Prove from the bible only that Daniel's 70 weeks are weeks of years.

PLEASE READ THE WHOLE CONTEXT, LAYING ASIDE YOUR PRESUPPOSITIONS, INSTEAD OF PRESUMING WHAT YOU WERE TAUGHT WAS ACCURATE.


Daniel 9:23-27 (NASB)
[SUP]23 [/SUP] "At the beginning of your supplications the command was issued, and I have come to tell you, for you are highly esteemed; so give heed to the message and gain understanding of the vision.
[SUP]24 [/SUP] "Seventy weeks have been decreed for your people and your holy city, to finish the transgression, to make an end of sin, to make atonement for iniquity, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up vision and prophecy and to anoint the most holy place.
[SUP]25 [/SUP] "So you are to know and discern that from the issuing of a decree to restore and rebuild Jerusalem until Messiah the Prince there will be seven weeks and sixty-two weeks; it will be built again, with plaza and moat, even in times of distress.
[SUP]26 [/SUP] "Then after the sixty-two weeks the Messiah will be cut off and have nothing, and the people of the prince who is to come will destroy the city and the sanctuary. And its end will come with a flood; even to the end there will be war; desolations are determined.
[SUP]27 [/SUP] "And he will make a firm covenant with the many for one week, but in the middle of the week he will put a stop to sacrifice and grain offering; and on the wing of abominations will come one who makes desolate, even until a complete destruction, one that is decreed, is poured out on the one who makes desolate."



The Prophecy said from the DECREE to Rebuilt Jerusalem to MESSIAH THE PRINCE, there would be 69 WEEKS, and that is 483 years if it is JEWISH CALENDAR YEARS. MESSIAH CAME AS A PRINCE WHEN HE RODE THE DONKEY INTO JERUSALEM. WHEN HE COMES AS KING of Kings, HE WILL RIDE A WHITE HORSE OF A CONQUEROR.


[video=youtube;rdyJO-_aAv8]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rdyJO-_aAv8[/video]



A DECREE was made by the Babalonian King Cyrus the Great and in it he gave the DECREE to Rebuild the TEMPLE OF SOLOMON in 536 BC. That decree did not count because the wording of the Prophecy specifies the rebuilding of JERUSALEM. In 445 BC Artaxerxes gave the COMMAND or DECREE to rebuild Jerusalem including the walls. And who was the Historian that recorded this DECREE, and personally had letters from the Artaxerxes to prove it? I dare say few Christains know this because they spend so little time in the old Testament; but it was Nehemiah, who's job title in Babylon was the King's Cupbearer.


Nehemiah 2:1-18 (NASB)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] And it came about in the month Nisan, in the twentieth year of King Artaxerxes, that wine was before him, and I took up the wine and gave it to the king. Now I had not been sad in his presence.
[SUP]2 [/SUP] So the king said to me, "Why is your face sad though you are not sick? This is nothing but sadness of heart." Then I was very much afraid.
[SUP]3 [/SUP] I said to the king, "Let the king live forever. Why should my face not be sad when the city, the place of my fathers' tombs, lies desolate and its gates have been consumed by fire?"
[SUP]4 [/SUP] Then the king said to me, "What would you request?" So I prayed to the God of heaven.
[SUP]5 [/SUP] I said to the king, "If it please the king, and if your servant has found favor before you, send me to Judah, to the city of my fathers' tombs, that I may rebuild it."
[SUP]6 [/SUP] Then the king said to me, the queen sitting beside him, "How long will your journey be, and when will you return?" So it pleased the king to send me, and I gave him a definite time.
[SUP]7 [/SUP] And I said to the king, "If it please the king, let letters be given me for the governors of the provinces beyond the River, that they may allow me to pass through until I come to Judah,
[SUP]8 [/SUP] and a letter to Asaph the keeper of the king's forest, that he may give me timber to make beams for the gates of the fortress which is by the temple, for the wall of the city and for the house to which I will go." And the king granted them to me because the good hand of my God was on me.
[SUP]9 [/SUP] Then I came to the governors of the provinces beyond the River and gave them the king's letters. Now the king had sent with me officers of the army and horsemen.
[SUP]10 [/SUP] When Sanballat the Horonite and Tobiah the Ammonite official heard about it, it was very displeasing to them that someone had come to seek the welfare of the sons of Israel.
[SUP]11 [/SUP] So I came to Jerusalem and was there three days.
[SUP]12 [/SUP] And I arose in the night, I and a few men with me. I did not tell anyone what my God was putting into my mind to do for Jerusalem and there was no animal with me except the animal on which I was riding.
[SUP]13 [/SUP] So I went out at night by the Valley Gate in the direction of the Dragon's Well and on to the Refuse Gate, inspecting the walls of Jerusalem which were broken down and its gates which were consumed by fire.
[SUP]14 [/SUP] Then I passed on to the Fountain Gate and the King's Pool, but there was no place for my mount to pass.
[SUP]15 [/SUP] So I went up at night by the ravine and inspected the wall. Then I entered the Valley Gate again and returned.
[SUP]16 [/SUP] The officials did not know where I had gone or what I had done; nor had I as yet told the Jews, the priests, the nobles, the officials or the rest who did the work.
[SUP]17 [/SUP] Then I said to them, "You see the bad situation we are in, that Jerusalem is desolate and its gates burned by fire. Come, let us rebuild the wall of Jerusalem so that we will no longer be a reproach."
[SUP]18 [/SUP] I told them how the hand of my God had been favorable to me and also about the king's words which he had spoken to me. Then they said, "Let us arise and build." So they put their hands to the good work.

So you COUNT from 445 BC for 483 years (69 Weeks) and that brings you to near the end of the Last Year of Christ's ministry here on Earth. I have seen lots of people who claim, Artaxeres's Decree was in 444 BC. Because a Jewish month is only 28 days long every MONTH, they fall behind the Solar Clock and have a LEAP MONTH (a 13 Month Year) to catch up every few years.



Adar – The Lucky Month

In a Jewish leap year, an extra month is added after the month of Shevat and before the month of Adar. It is called Adar Aleph, Adar Rishon, or Adar I. The month of Adar is then referred to as Adar Bet, Adar Sheni, or Adar II.
According to Jewish tradition, Adar is a lucky and happy month.
Leap Year Rules

A leap year occurs 7 times in the 19-year Metonic cycle. With years 3, 6, 8, 11, 14, 17, and 19 of the cycle being leap years, this corresponds to a frequency of every 2 to 3 years.
The Metonic cycle, also known as Enneadecaeteris, is a period that comes very close to being a common multiple of the solar year and the lunar month (synodic month). With a deviation of just a few hours, 19 solar years have very nearly the same length as 235 lunar months, both periods amounting to 6940 days.
This makes it possible for Jewish time reckoning to approximately stay in sync with the solar year simply by adding a certain amount of full months per Metonic cycle. Since 19 years with 12 months accumulate to 228 months, 7 extra months must be added to arrive at a total of 235 months per cycle.
By employing this system, the Jewish calendar deviates from the solar year by 1 day in 216 years.
How accurate are the other calendar systems?

https://www.timeanddate.com/date/jewish-leap-year.html
THUS those who fail to compute this correctly will come up with a different Year for Christ's Crucifixion or a different Year for Artaxeres's Decree.

NO MATTER HOW YOU LOOK AT IT, IT IS NOT TALKING ABOUT WEEKS OF DAYS, BUT RATHER IT OBVIOUSLY IS TALKING ABOUT WEEKS OF YEARS.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
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Prove from the bible only that Daniel's 70 weeks are weeks of years.
Why would anyone doubt this? The Hebrew literally speaks of seventy "sevens", and that translates into 490 years. When you study the context, it would be impossible to apply the meaning of a seven day week to this prophecy.

Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.
25Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.
26And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.
27And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

The commandment to build Jerusalem was given by Cyrus king of Persia. So if we chose to apply a seven day week to this prophecy, Jesus the Messiah would have appeared on earth one year and slightly over 4 months after this decree was passed. Obviously, that's absurd.

Assuming a prophetic year of 360 days and a prophetic month of 30 days

7 weeks x 7 days = 49 days

3 score weeks = 3 x 20 x 7 days = 420 days

2 weeks x 7 days = 14 days

TOTAL = 483 days - 360 days = 1 year and 123 days or 1 year and 4.1 months
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
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Is something as major as the end of the sinful world not even mentioned in the bible?
THERE IS SOMETHING AS MAJOR AS THE SINFUL WORLD COMING TO AN END, and it is Called the book of Revelation and Zechariah Chapter 14.
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
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Why would anyone doubt this? The Hebrew literally speaks of seventy "sevens", and that translates into 490 years. When you study the context, it would be impossible to apply the meaning of a seven day week to this prophecy.

Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.
25Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.
26And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.
27And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

The commandment to build Jerusalem was given by Cyrus king of Persia. So if we chose to apply a seven day week to this prophecy, Jesus the Messiah would have appeared on earth one year and slightly over 4 months after this decree was passed. Obviously, that's absurd.

Assuming a prophetic year of 360 days and a prophetic month of 30 days

7 weeks x 7 days = 49 days

3 score weeks = 3 x 20 x 7 days = 420 days

2 weeks x 7 days = 14 days

TOTAL = 483 days - 360 days = 1 year and 123 days or 1 year and 4.1 months

Believe what you want, but the DECREE was 483 years before MESSIAH rode into Jerusalem on a Donkey.


Zechariah 9:9 (HCSB)
[SUP]9 [/SUP] Rejoice greatly, Daughter Zion! Shout in triumph, Daughter Jerusalem! Look, your King is coming to you; He is righteous and victorious, humble and riding on a donkey, on a colt, the foal of a donkey.


THAT PROPHECY WAS FULFILLED 483 YEARS AFTER THE DECREE OF ARTAXERES'S COMMANDING THAT JERUSALEM AND THE WALLS BE REBUILT.

See how much you have to INGNORE fulfilled Prophecy and bend Scripture to fit your week of days THEORY.
 
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VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
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DID THE JEWS USE THE TERM "WEEK OF YEARS".


I found this example in the Apocrapha book 2 Esdras, written approximately 90-96 AD.

The book is considered one of the gems of Jewish apocalyptic literature.
So it appears to be a commonly understood term to call a SEVEN YEAR PERIOD A WEEK OF YEARS.


2 Esdras 7:43 (NRSV)
[SUP]43 [/SUP] It will last as though for a week of years.
 
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Nov 23, 2013
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Why would anyone doubt this? The Hebrew literally speaks of seventy "sevens", and that translates into 490 years. When you study the context, it would be impossible to apply the meaning of a seven day week to this prophecy.

Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.
25Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.
26And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.
27And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

The commandment to build Jerusalem was given by Cyrus king of Persia. So if we chose to apply a seven day week to this prophecy, Jesus the Messiah would have appeared on earth one year and slightly over 4 months after this decree was passed. Obviously, that's absurd.

Assuming a prophetic year of 360 days and a prophetic month of 30 days

7 weeks x 7 days = 49 days

3 score weeks = 3 x 20 x 7 days = 420 days

2 weeks x 7 days = 14 days

TOTAL = 483 days - 360 days = 1 year and 123 days or 1 year and 4.1 months
Seventy sevens could be anything, seventy 7 days, seventy 7 sabbaths, seventy 7 new moons. Do you you see my point? Seventy sevens has absolutely no meaning. Seventy weeks however does have meaning, it means seventy weeks.

Also you're making a lot of assumptions.
  1. Seventy weeks doesn't mean seventy weeks, it means 490 years.
  2. The command to restore and to BUILD, not rebuild Jerusalem is speaking of earthly Jerusalem.
  3. The command was given by Cyrus. It could be God issuing the command to BUILD the new Jerusalem.
  4. The command to build was many years before Christ, it could have been given to Christ during his earthly ministry.

I know the ins and outs of that story, I believed it for many years until I started reading the bible and found out differently.
 
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iamsoandso

Senior Member
Oct 6, 2011
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Seventy sevens could be anything, seventy 7 days, seventy 7 sabbaths, seventy 7 new moons. Do you you see my point? Seventy sevens has absolutely no meaning. Seventy weeks however does have meaning, it means seventy weeks.

Also you're making a lot of assumptions.
  1. Seventy weeks doesn't mean seventy weeks, it means 490 years.
  2. The command to restore and to BUILD, not rebuild Jerusalem is speaking of earthly Jerusalem.
  3. The command was given by Cyrus. It could be God issuing the command to BUILD the new Jerusalem.
  4. The command to build was many years before Christ, it could have been given to Christ during his earthly ministry.

I know the ins and outs of that story, I believed it for many years until I started reading the bible and found out differently.
It's unclear around 2,3,4, are you quoting what you think Neamiah6 is assuming or are those your thought's in 2,3,4?
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
11,967
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Seventy sevens could be anything, seventy 7 days, seventy 7 sabbaths, seventy 7 new moons. Do you you see my point? Seventy sevens has absolutely no meaning. Seventy weeks however does have meaning, it means seventy weeks.

Also you're making a lot of assumptions.
  1. Seventy weeks doesn't mean seventy weeks, it means 490 years.
  2. The command to restore and to BUILD, not rebuild Jerusalem is speaking of earthly Jerusalem.
  3. The command was given by Cyrus. It could be God issuing the command to BUILD the new Jerusalem.
  4. The command to build was many years before Christ, it could have been given to Christ during his earthly ministry.

I know the ins and outs of that story, I believed it for many years until I started reading the bible and found out differently.

Acts 9:5 (KJV)
[SUP]5 [/SUP] And he said, Who art thou, Lord? And the Lord said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest: it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks.


 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
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Believe what you want, but the DECREE was 483 years before MESSIAH rode into Jerusalem on a Donkey.
Well you should be addressing this to the person who does NOT believe in weeks of years. All I did was to show the absurdity of weeks of day in Daniel 9.
 
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Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
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Seventy sevens could be anything...
Not at all. Study Bible history, Bible chronology, and secular history and chronology. There's no point quibbling about this matter, since your theory about weeks of days is absurd.