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Thread: The Rapture

  1. #1001
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    Default Re: The Rapture

    In v. 5 the locusts of the Abyss are given power to torture mankind for five months. This is the time period in which God had historically destroyed heaven and earth, first during the flood in Genesis 7:24 and later during the Babylonian siege of Israel according to the Septuagint version of Ezekiel 4. Once again God destroys the land in five months, this time using the Roman army.


    The initial purpose of the fifth trumpet of A.D. 68-70 was to prepare the Roman legions for war. In v. 5 these soldiers are given power to torture the people of Jerusalem for five months, a power they will soon exercise at the blowing of the seventh trumpet. After the sounding of this trumpet, Titus’ vast army, described here, tortured the inhabitants of Jerusalem. For five months, from the middle of Nisan to the middle of Elul, Titus’ army induced famine and plague in the closed quarters of the city before finally breaking through the last fortifications and putting thousands of people out of their misery. This five month interval from the middle of Nisan to the middle of Elul in which Titus and his army besieged Jerusalem is also the same five month time frame in which locusts typically appear in Israel. This fact is one more piece of evidence pointing to the Roman army as the locusts of Revelation 9.

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    Default Re: The Rapture

    Quote Originally Posted by PlainWord View Post
    VCO,

    What am I going to do with you. Do you realize that you just spiritualized the locusts into demons? I agree the "locusts" were bad and were influenced by Satan as evil spirits often infect evil men, but they were really the invading Roman troops of 70 AD. The symbolism for locusts being swarming gentile armies is found in several OT passages including Joel 1-2, Judges 6:5, 7:12; Jeremiah 51:14, 27; and Nahum 3:15.
    . .
    .

    There you go again, with your Twilight Zone Theology. EVERYTHING FROM Rev. 4:1 to the last verse of Chapter 22, is STILL ALL FUTURE EVENTS, and a GREAT DEAL OF IT IS LITERAL EVENTS.


    This star, probably representing Satan cast out of heaven at the beginning of the Great Tribulation (Rev. 12:9), was given the key to the shaft of the Abyss ("bottomless pit," kjv). The "Abyss" (abyssos) is the home of demons (cf. Luke 8:31; Rev. 9:11; 11:7; 17:8; 20:1, 3; in Rom. 10:7 it is translated "deep"). Satan will be confined for a thousand years in the Abyss during the reign of Christ on earth (Rev. 20:1-3).


    Here the star (Satan) used his key to allow demons in the Abyss to come out and afflict the earth. Visually this event was represented as a great smoke, darkening the sky and the sun. Out of the smoke came creatures called locusts with the deadly sting of scorpions. While they were harmless to natural vegetation and trees, they stung people who did not have the seal of God on their foreheads.

    . . .


    9:7-11. The description of the locusts compared to horses prepared for battle is awesome: human faces... crowns of gold... women's hair... lions' teeth, ironlike breastplates, and wings that sounded like horse-drawn chariots rushing into battle.

    Obviously John was describing what he saw but did not interpret each characteristic. The picture is one of Satan's awesome supernatural power and the demon world especially in relation to unbelievers.


    Unlike the previous judgments which apparently were short in time this judgment extended for five months (v. 10; cf. v. 5). This is important as it refutes clearly the notion that all these judgments will occur in a brief span of time immediately before the second coming of Christ.

    The demons had a ruler over them whose Hebrew name is Abaddon and whose Greek name is Apollyon. Both words mean "destroyer." Though Satan is sometimes portrayed as an angel of light (2 Cor. 11:14), here Satan and his demons are seen for what they really are, destroyers of people. This judgment confirms what was already intimated in preceding judgments, that the Great Tribulation, as Christ described it, will be a time of "great distress, unequaled from the beginning of the world until now—and never to be equaled again" (Matt. 24:21).


    The Bible Knowledge Commentary: An Exposition of the Scriptures by Dallas Seminary Faculty.

    9:1 a star fallen from heaven. Unlike the other stars that will have fallen (6:13; 8:8), this one will be an angelic being (cf. v. 2)—probably Satan himself (v. 4; 12:7; see notes on Isa. 14:12-14; Ezek. 28:12-15; Luke 10:18). bottomless pit. Lit. “pit of the abyss.” Mentioned seven times in Revelation, it always refers to the prison where some of the demonic hordes are incarcerated, the place of severest torment and isolation (vv. 1, 2, 11; 11:7; 17:8; 20:1, 3; see notes on 2 Pet. 2:4; Jude 6, 7).

    9:3 locusts. Grasshopper-like insects that descend in swarms so thick they can obscure the sun and strip bare all vegetation. In the 1950s, a locust swarm devoured every growing thing for several hundred thousand square miles in the Middle East. These are not normal locusts, however, but specially prepared ones that are merely the outward form of demons, who, like locusts, will bring swarming desolation (see notes on Joel 2:2, 4). Like appears nine times in John’s description; he finds it difficult to describe what he sees in a way the reader can understand. scorpions. An arachnid that inhabits warm, dry regions and has an erect tail tipped with a venomous stinger. A scorpion’s victim often rolls on the ground in agony, foams at the mouth, and grinds his teeth in pain. The demons, in locust form, are able to inflict the physical—and perhaps, spiritual—pain like the scorpion (v. 5).

    9:4 men who do not have the seal of God. Everyone on earth, except the two groups mentioned in chapter 7—the 144,000 Jewish evangelists and their converts (see note on 7:4).
    9:5 five months. The normal life cycle of locusts is five months, usually from May to September.
    9:6 seek death and will not find it. The tormented will find no relief. Even their unimaginable attempts to end their misery in suicide will be unsuccessful.
    9:7 faces of men. Probably a reference to these demonic creatures as rational, intelligent beings.
    9:8 women’s hair. Jeremiah 51:27 refers to locusts having bristles like hair. lions’ teeth. They are fierce, powerful, and deadly (cf. Jer. 51:27).
    9:9 breastplates of iron. Breastplates were designed to protect the vital organs and sustain the life of the warrior. These creatures are invulnerable.
    9:10 five months. See note on verse 5.
    9:11 Abaddon... Apollyon. Although locusts normally have no king (Prov. 30:27), these demonic creatures do. His name in both Hebrew and Greek means “destroyer.” There is a hierarchy of power among the demons, just as among the holy angels. Apparently, “the angel of the bottomless pit” is one of Satan’s most trusted leaders or, possibly, Satan himself.

    The MacArthur Bible Commentary.
    . . .
    The Abyss is the pit. It is the abode of the demons and the place where Satan will be bound for a 1000 years in the millennium. It is a place where demons have been sent before the lake of fire. Remember in Luke 8:31: “And they begged Jesus repeatedly not to order them to go to the Abyss.” Demons begged Jesus not to send them to the pit but instead to the herd of pigs. It is the unseen underworld, a place where they are bound waiting on the time before they are cast into the lake of fire. The demons that have been inhabiting the Abyss are especially vile, perverted and wicked. So wicked that God in His mercy has had them locked up to prevent their damage to His chosen creation – mankind. While we know that there are strong demons loose on earth at this time and we see evidence of the destruction they have been a part of, can you imagine the world when the utterly wicked ones are loosed? The sky will be darkened with unimaginable evil.

    Vs 3 And out of the smoke locusts came down upon the earth and were given power like that of scorpions of the earth.


    These demons are referred to as locusts. They are not actual locusts insects but rather are called locusts because they swarm and destroy everything in sight. The Middle East has been experiencing a locust invasion since May of this year. The infestation will likely last through September given that the life cycle is about 5 months. Agriculturalists are working feverishly to preserve crops and destroy the locusts. But these locusts will be a different breed, for they are demons.
    . . .
    Locusts & Demons Revelation 9:1-21 | ***********In His Presence DAILY

    . . .
    John continues his vision in 9:3: “Then out of the smoke came locusts10 upon the earth,11 and power12 was given them, as the scorpions of the earth have power.” It is quite certain that these are demons that assume some of the characteristics of locusts.13 These locusts ascend from the Abyss, which is elsewhere in the Bible the abode of the demons.14


    Also 9:11 informs us that they have “the angel of the bottomless pit” as their king. These locust-like demons have power “as” scorpions. Please notice that these demons are not called scorpions, nor are we told that they look like scorpions, just that they have the power (9:3) and torment (9:5) of a scorpion.


    In 9:4, these demons “were told not to hurt the grass of the earth,15 nor any green thing, nor any tree, but only the men who do not have the seal of God on their foreheads.” Locusts are greatly feared because they can strip a country of every green thing, leaving man and beast alike to die from starvation. These insects move in giant columns, stripping away everything that is green. The plague of locusts that God sent against Pharaoh of Egypt brought Pharaoh to his knees…temporarily. But in this case, there is a total prohibition against the destruction of any plant life, which is the natural food of locusts. Instead, these locusts are “given” power to harm those who didn’t have the seal of God on their foreheads—those who were not a part of the 144,000 (cf. Rev 7:2). It is reasonable to assume that all those who have become believers during the tribulation will also be protected.


    So there are limitations placed upon these locusts. They are limited as to what men they can afflict (9:4) and how they can afflict those men. Verse 5 states that these demons “were not permitted to kill anyone, but to torment for five months; and their torment was like the torment of a scorpion when it stings a man.” Again, we see God’s sovereignty, here prohibiting death and limiting the torment to five months. It is a sobering thought to realize that many of the demons of hell are not free to hurt us in this present age. Satan is managing to do a good job of destruction today, without his entire army to back him up.16


    In 9:6, John records an awful sentence: “And in those days17 men will seek death and will not find it;18 they will long to die, and death flees from them.” Because of the influence of these scorpion-like locust demons, the earth’s inhabitants will have reached their emotional, physical, and spiritual limit. Men and women alike will try to die, but will not be able to. Like Job, they will “long for death…. And dig for it more than for hidden treasures” (Job 3:21). But it will elude them. They will cripple and injure themselves but somehow will be unable to finish the job.


    Think of the worst pain you’ve ever experienced. The worst pain I think I’ve ever experienced was a case of food poisoning. I was so sick that I was afraid I was going to die and then I was disappointed when I didn’t. This period of tribulation is far more severe than having food poisoning for five months. It will be like the movie, Ground Hog Day, where actor Bill Murray experiences the same day over and over.


    What an awful time period. Can you imagine wanting to die and not being able to? The Lord refuses to give these rebels any satisfaction. Is God a sadistic God? No, but He is a just God that gives men and women who reject Him what they want: separation from Him.


    This is a five-month foretaste of eternal hell. During this part of the tribulation, Satan and his host are given a short time to treat men as they will in hell. Please hear me: Hell is a place that no sane person would ever want to go. Don’t risk spending eternity in hell. Trust in Christ today.
    . . .
    https://bible.org/seriespage/18-all-...velation-91-21

    t t t
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    Default Re: The Rapture

    Quote Originally Posted by valiant View Post
    ALL saints are Tribulation saints

    You CANNOT even imagine the horrors of the GREAT TRIBULATION that certainly WILL COME.

    t t t
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    Default Re: The Rapture

    The horrors of Rosie O'Donnell are enough to scare anyone!
    VCO and dcontroversal like this.

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    Default Re: The Rapture

    Quote Originally Posted by VCO View Post
    You CANNOT even imagine the horrors of the GREAT TRIBULATION that certainly WILL COME.
    THe time of the first century refomtion has come we are in the tribulation, the trouble of Jacob . The great tribulation will be on the last day, rapture time for the new creation (Chrstians). Never to rise to new spirit life to those who have not the Spirit of Christ .

    The amil postion explains it best.... no need for Christ coming in the flesh as if we did know him who is not a man as us by sight . The thousand years in that parable found in Revelation 20 represents a unknown amount of time. Many times it is used to represent a unknown. Remember without parables Christ the word of God spoke not. Without parables we could never find the spiritual meaning hid form those who have no faith
    Last edited by garee; June 11th, 2017 at 11:17 PM.

  6. #1006


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    Default Re: The Rapture

    Quote Originally Posted by Muzungu256 View Post
    VCO lets put it this way if they can get the temple bizniz rollin again i will believe that all of matt24 is future.............

    NO it is MAT. 25 that is all FUTURE.

    Only Mat. 24:15-22 and Mat 24:27-51 is yet future.


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hI66J8_T4g

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tB8W0cLM9uA

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vCsEMjpZZoo

    t t t
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    Default Re: The Rapture

    Quote Originally Posted by PlainWord View Post
    My illustration means everything!! The Presence of Christ indeed returned to punish Jerusalem in 70 AD just as the text says. The Mosaic Age ended meaning the END of the JEWISH NATION, and the end of the LAW. It was an unbelievable event of huge importance to not only the Jews but the whole world because it ushered in the Church Age or Messianic Age or as you like to call it without knowing it, the "Millennium."

    Christ is reigning over heaven and earth RIGHT NOW. What started with 12 Jews in Israel in 30 AD has spread throughout the planet and become the largest religion on earth with 1/3 of all people proclaiming their belief in Christ.



    As I've been saying over and over, Christ returned in 70 AD. He judged and punished Israel. This took us through Mat 24:34. Everything prior to this verse was accomplished in the first century and I can document each event. Then we come to verse 35:

    35 Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will by no means pass away.

    The very next words out of our Savior's mouth is this:

    36 “But of that day and hour no one knows...

    What day? The day the heaven and earth will pass away!!
    It is then (our future) when all the wicked of the planet are judged and the new heavens and earth appear and we enter the eternal state. It will be like the "days of Noah" or Lot. The earth will be full of wickedness, like it is now. But, it will get much worse before the end finally comes.
    It is so sad that you are disillusioned with the above....You just keep cursing yourself. SO SAD
    1 Cor 15:1-4

    Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain. For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

    .

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    Default Re: The Rapture

    Quote Originally Posted by PlainWord View Post
    Do you mean LXX? L=50, X=10 totaling 70. You are really showing your ignorance my friend.

    "The Septuagint (from the Latin septuaginta, meaning "seventy," and frequently referred to by the roman numerals LXX) is the Greek translation of the Old Testament. The name derives from the tradition that it was made by seventy (or seventy-two) Jewish scholars at Alexandria, Egypt during the reign of Ptolemy Philadelphus (285-247 B.C.).

    I cited Matthew from the KJV. The Septuagint LXX didn't translate the NT as it wasn't even written back then!!



    crossed my fingers up.... far from Ignorance.
    1 Cor 15:1-4

    Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain. For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

    .

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    Default Re: The Rapture

    Quote Originally Posted by PlainWord View Post
    He's coming back!! I don't know how better to illustrate it.

    Attachment 170648
    care to give us the Book and version where these verses came from......

    The problem being is that you discount that God made three covenants with Israel in the OT...... Two of which were unconditional... They are still in force...... and that one with Abram,,, will curse everyone of the preterist and replacement theology people.

    I have given you a synopsis of Matthew, Mark and Luke, yet you thumb your nose at them and keep right on trucking. It also has become apparent that You and other preterist even when faced with the truth, and the truth will come, you will still deny it.

    It is so SAD!
    1 Cor 15:1-4

    Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain. For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

    .

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    Default Re: The Rapture

    Hello Garee,

    The thousand years in that parable found in Revelation 20 represents a unknown amount of time.


    First, Rev.20 is not a parable, but the events listed therein will literally take place. And second, your claim that the thousand years as being an unknown amount of time is complete conjecture. It is amazing to me that you say that it is an "unknown amount of time" when it tells you six times that the length of time is a thousand years.

    Many times it is used to represent a unknown.


    Just because one scripture has a symbolic meaning of something, does not mean that the same meaning is to be applied everywhere that you encounter it in scripture. The context should always be considered first in determining the meaning. Regarding the "thousand years" of Rev.20, it is stated that Satan is cast into the Abyss and is restricted there for a thousand years, that Christ's rule on this earth will be for a thousand years. And after the great tribulation saints are resurrected, they will reign with Christ during that thousand years. And finally, Satan will be released at the end of the end of the thousand years. Therefore to call the thousand years an unknown number would be to just ignore the scripture.

    If God wanted to make known to us that he was referring to a literal thousand years, how could He do that when you and others just blatantly change the plain meaning. After all, you can't say that it doesn't say a thousand years.

    Remember without parables Christ the word of God spoke not. Without parables we could never find the spiritual meaning hid form those who have no faith


    This is another scripture that I am tired of seeing people distort the heck out of it. So, here is the actual scripture:

    ================================================== =======

    "
    The disciples came to him and asked, “Why do you speak to the people in parables?”He replied, Because the knowledge of the secrets of the kingdom of heaven has been given to you, but not to them.

    In them is fulfilled the prophecy of Isaiah:“ ‘You will be ever hearing but never understanding;
    you will be ever seeing but never perceiving. For this people’s heart has become calloused;
    they hardly hear with their ears, and they have closed their eyes. Otherwise they might see with their eyes, hear with their ears, hear with their ears, understand with their hearts and turn, and I would heal them.'

    But blessed are your eyes because they see, and your ears because they hear."

    ================================================== ===========

    The "them" who Jesus speaks parables to are that generation of Israel. Notice that the Lord said to the disciples "But blessed are your eyes because they see, and your ears because they hear. That the disciples eyes see and their ears hear, would also represent the entire church, meaning that the Lord spoke parables to that generation of Israel and the church was not included, because our eyes are opened and our ears hear what God is saying.

    You and others use this scripture to infer that believers can't know the meaning of scripture, when it was directed at the that generation of Israel.
    Last edited by Ahwatukee; June 12th, 2017 at 04:24 AM.
    But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control ...

    I am the vine; you are the branches. If you remain in me and I in you, you will bear much fruit ...

    This is to my Father’s glory, that you bear much fruit ....

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    Default Re: The Rapture

    There you go again, with your Twilight Zone Theology. EVERYTHING FROM Rev. 4:1 to the last verse of Chapter 22, is STILL ALL FUTURE EVENTS, and a GREAT DEAL OF IT IS LITERAL EVENTS.
    Wrong. You just don't understand the symbolism. Plus most of it employs OT figurative language as I've shown you 100X.

    The Great Tribulation is over and you missed it!! "then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains." Why do you suppose only those who were in Judea were to flee the great tribulation? Hmmm?????

    The destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD and the events which actually unfolded then were first given to Moses as he records them in Deu 28:45-68. The similarities are undeniable and exactly describe what Rome did to Jerusalem and the fate of the people there.



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    Default Re: The Rapture

    Quote Originally Posted by VCO View Post
    You CANNOT even imagine the horrors of the GREAT TRIBULATION that certainly WILL COME.
    LOL. Past tense. Came to Israel 66-70 AD. Deu 28 contains amazing details of the Great Tribulation.

    45 “Moreover all these curses shall come upon you and pursue and overtake you, until you are destroyed, because you did not obey the voice of the Lord your God, to keep His commandments and His statutes which He commanded you. 46 And they shall be upon you for a sign and a wonder, and on your descendants forever.

    47 “Because you did not serve the Lord your God with joy and gladness of heart, for the abundance of everything, 48 therefore you shall serve your enemies, whom the Lord will send against you, in hunger, (FAMINE AND STARVATION IN THE CITY) in thirst, in nakedness, and in need of everything; and He will put a yoke of iron on your neck until He has destroyed you. 49 The Lord will bring a nation (ROME) against you from afar, from the end of the earth, as swift as the eagle (SYMBOL OF ROME) flies, a nation whose language you will not understand, 50 a nation of fierce countenance (4th Beast of Dan 7), which does not respect the elderly nor show favor to the young (THE ROMANS KILLED THE ELDERLY AND YOUNG AND KEPT THE YOUNG MEN FOR WORK). 51 And they shall eat the increase of your livestock and the produce of your land, until you are destroyed; they shall not leave you grain or new wine or oil, or the increase of your cattle or the offspring of your flocks, until they have destroyed you. (THE ROMANS TOOK EVERYTHING FROM THE SURROUNDING COUNTRYSIDE TO SUPPORT THEIR WAR EFFORT)

    52 “They shall besiege you at all your gates until your high and fortified walls (THIS IS WELL KNOWN), in which you trust, come down throughout all your land; and they shall besiege you at all your gates throughout all your land which the Lord your God has given you. 53 You shall eat the fruit of your own body, the flesh of your sons and your daughters (STARVATION WAS SO BAD THAT PARENTS WERE EATING THEIR BABIES) whom the Lord your God has given you, in the siege and desperate straits in which your enemy shall distress you. 54 The sensitive and very refined man among you will be hostile toward his brother, toward the wife of his bosom, and toward the rest of his children whom he leaves behind, 55 so that he will not give any of them the flesh of his children whom he will eat, because he has nothing left in the siege and desperate straits in which your enemy shall distress you at all your gates. 56 The tender and delicate woman among you, who would not venture to set the sole of her foot on the ground because of her delicateness and sensitivity, will refuse to the husband of her bosom, and to her son and her daughter, 57 her placenta which comes out from between her feet and her children whom she bears; for she will eat them secretly for lack of everything in the siege and desperate straits in which your enemy shall distress you at all your gates. (JOSEPHUS RECORDS ALL OF THIS)

    58 “If you do not carefully observe all the words of this law that are written in this book, that you may fear this glorious and awesome name, THE LORD YOUR GOD, 59 then the Lord will bring upon you and your descendants extraordinary plagues—great and prolonged plagues—and serious and prolonged sicknesses. 60 Moreover He will bring back on you all the diseases of Egypt, (JUST AS WHAT WE SEE OF THE TRUMPETS) of which you were afraid, and they shall cling to you. 61 Also every sickness and every plague, which is not written in this Book of the Law, will the Lord bring upon you until you are destroyed. 62 You shall be left few in number (ONLY 97,000 WERE LEFT ALIVE OUT OF 1.2 MILLION), whereas you were as the stars of heaven in multitude, because you would not obey the voice of the Lord your God. 63 And it shall be, that just as the Lord rejoiced over you to do you good and multiply you, so the Lord will rejoice over you to destroy you and bring you to nothing; and you shall be plucked from off the land which you go to possess (JERUSALEM AND ISRAEL WERE LEFT DESOLATE).

    64 “Then the Lord will scatter you among all peoples, from one end of the earth to the other (THIS WAS THE CASE FOR 1,900 YEARS), and there you shall serve other gods, which neither you nor your fathers have known—wood and stone. 65 And among those nations you shall find no rest (SPANISH INQUISITION, NAZI GERMANY, ETC), nor shall the sole of your foot have a resting place; but there the Lord will give you a trembling heart, failing eyes, and anguish of soul. 66 Your life shall hang in doubt before you; you shall fear day and night, and have no assurance of life. 67 In the morning you shall say, ‘Oh, that it were evening!’ And at evening you shall say, ‘Oh, that it were morning!’ because of the fear which terrifies your heart, and because of the sight which your eyes see.

    What happened to Israel and Jerusalem from 66-70 AD was the worst tribulation any nation ever endured or ever will again. Sorry you missed it but for you to accept it would require a major rethinking of your rapture thingy and most of the other nonsense you believe.
    Last edited by PlainWord; June 12th, 2017 at 07:24 AM.

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    Default Re: The Rapture

    Quote Originally Posted by Bladerunner View Post
    crossed my fingers up.... far from Ignorance.
    That could explain the mistake on the Roman numerals but doesn't account for you not knowing that the Septuagint LXX didn't translate the NT. I was citing Mat 24 when you made your comments.

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    Default Re: The Rapture

    VCO you just told me dat matthew24:15 is future so you are denying that the abomination of desolation took place in 70ad??????????????? or are you saying its a double triple quadra fulfillment prophecy????????????? also wouldnt the restarting of animal sacrifices be an abomination already without them being stopped by the antichrist?????????? since we are in the new covenant. these questions need good anwers..............
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bladerunner View Post
    care to give us the Book and version where these verses came from......

    The problem being is that you discount that God made three covenants with Israel in the OT...... Two of which were unconditional... They are still in force...... and that one with Abram,,, will curse everyone of the preterist and replacement theology people.

    I have given you a synopsis of Matthew, Mark and Luke, yet you thumb your nose at them and keep right on trucking. It also has become apparent that You and other preterist even when faced with the truth, and the truth will come, you will still deny it.

    It is so SAD!
    You don't recognize Mat 24? They came from the NKJV. I "thumb my nose" (Your words) at your synopsis because it is dead wrong. Sorry if that hurts your feelings. You futurists obviously never studied history or attempted to see if prophesy written in the first century was fulfilled. Because of this, you continue to look for future fulfillment of events that happened in the first century.

    The Great Tribulation was the end of the Jewish nation and the end of the Law. It was the end of the age.

    1 Cor 10: 11 Now all these things happened to them as examples, and they were written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the ages have come.

    Paul knew and wrote that they were living in the last days of an era or age.

    The writer of Hebrews said the same thing twice:

    has in these last days spoken to us by His Son, whom He has appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the worlds.

    He then would have had to suffer often since the foundation of the world; but now, once at the end of the ages, He has appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself.

    The text could not be more clear. Christ appeared at the end of the ages to put away sin. We are in a new age now, the Church Age.

    Peter also knew that they were in the last days when he quotes Joel and applies it to them:

    ‘And it shall come to pass in the last days, says God, That I will pour out of My Spirit on all flesh; Your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, Your young men shall see visions, Your old men shall dream dreams.

    This was the Holy Spirit coming to them at Pentecost.

    It truly is sad that you futurists missed everything. You showed up to the ball park 1,947 years after the game was played.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PlainWord View Post
    You don't recognize Mat 24? They came from the NKJV. I "thumb my nose" (Your words) at your synopsis because it is dead wrong. Sorry if that hurts your feelings. You futurists obviously never studied history or attempted to see if prophesy written in the first century was fulfilled. Because of this, you continue to look for future fulfillment of events that happened in the first century.

    The Great Tribulation was the end of the Jewish nation and the end of the Law. It was the end of the age.

    1 Cor 10: 11 Now all these things happened to them as examples, and they were written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the ages have come.

    Paul knew and wrote that they were living in the last days of an era or age.

    The writer of Hebrews said the same thing twice:

    has in these last days spoken to us by His Son, whom He has appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the worlds.

    He then would have had to suffer often since the foundation of the world; but now, once at the end of the ages, He has appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself.

    The text could not be more clear. Christ appeared at the end of the ages to put away sin. We are in a new age now, the Church Age.

    Peter also knew that they were in the last days when he quotes Joel and applies it to them:

    ‘And it shall come to pass in the last days, says God, That I will pour out of My Spirit on all flesh; Your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, Your young men shall see visions, Your old men shall dream dreams.

    This was the Holy Spirit coming to them at Pentecost.

    It truly is sad that you futurists missed everything. You showed up to the ball park 1,947 years after the game was played.
    in a dispensational mind last days isnt pentecost like peter says its the last 7 years of the time of Jacob's trouble (by jacob they mean the polish people in the state of israel)
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    Quote Originally Posted by Muzungu256 View Post
    VCO lets put it this way if they can get the temple bizniz rollin again i will believe that all of matt24 is future.............
    Yeah, they will never build another temple and resume animal sacrifices. Can you imagine the outrage from the world? Besides, God would never allow it or recognize it. There are some on these pages that actually believe Christ will reign from a man-made Jewish Temple were animal sacrifices were occurring. Can you believe that? Christ became our way of atonement so the mere thought that He would allow the resumption of the old way for atonement is absurd.

    Wanna hear something funny? The western or wailing wall isn't even part of the old temple complex. Instead it is part of the old Roman fort, Antonia. The Jews praying there are actually praying at the site of a fort used by their enemies to conquer them. This is God laughing at the them. Josephus records this:

    To conclude, when he entirely demolished the rest of the city, and overthrew its walls, he left these towers as a monument of his good fortune, which had proved his auxiliaries, and enabled him to take what could not otherwise have been taken by him.

    Only three Roman towers remained in Jerusalem fulfilling Christ's prophesy of "no stone will be left on top of another." The below is a great drawing of where the Temple was in relation to the wailing wall.

    Last edited by PlainWord; June 12th, 2017 at 08:20 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by VCO View Post
    You CANNOT even imagine the horrors of the GREAT TRIBULATION that certainly WILL COME.
    are you afraid of death?

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    Quote Originally Posted by PlainWord View Post
    Yeah, they will never build another temple and resume animal sacrifices. Can you imagine the outrage from the world? Besides, God would never allow it or recognize it. There are some on these pages that actually believe Christ will reign from a man-made Jewish Temple were animal sacrifices were occurring. Can you believe that? Christ became our way of atonement so the mere thought that He would allow the resumption of the old way for atonement is absurd.

    yeah i think it would be an insult to Jesus' blood as well if animal sacrifices were sanctioned still or in the millennial kingdom, why bother dying for our sins then???????????? but what do i know right.............

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    Quote Originally Posted by Muzungu256 View Post
    in a dispensational mind last days isnt pentecost like peter says its the last 7 years of the time of Jacob's trouble (by jacob they mean the polish people in the state of israel)
    Since we established that the "end of the age" and "last days" applied to first century Israel I think we can piece together some of Dan 12.

    4 “But you, Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book until the time of the end; many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall increase.”

    I wonder if the "book" which Daniel sealed was a scroll and the same scroll that Christ opened in Rev 6? It certainly makes sense. Dan 12 records the great tribulation of Israel this way:

    "And there shall be a time of trouble, Such as never was since there was a nation..."

    Jesus echoes these words in Mat 24:

    21 For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be.

    Josephus, who witnessed the siege and conditions inside the city confirms both Daniel and Jesus' account in almost exactly the same language:

    "Accordingly it appears to me, that the misfortunes of all men, from the beginning of the world, if they be compared to these of the Jews, are not so considerable as they were."

    This is pretty compelling stuff that our dispensational futurist friends will be unable to refute, at least with any credibility. In my next post I will attempt to identify the seals and show they belonged to the first century.



    Last edited by PlainWord; June 12th, 2017 at 09:25 AM.

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