Study on Apostasy.

[Stephen63]

But i will continue my study and proof of truth. I started this thread not to debate someones set in stone belief and all other beliefs are anti gospel. In which if i wanted i could use the same way of thinking about others beliefs. But it just comes down to we are one body with i diversity of interpretations.

While I usually agree with you on a lot, I won't agree on this one.

The reason is there are not minor differences when some believe doctrines of demons.

 

[Rockrz]

I once knew a man who attended an Assemblies of God church and he was always terrified that he was going to lose his salvation

When I was a baby Christian... satan tried that on me too.

This simply proves what Jesus taught in Mark 4:13-20 is true... of course satan is going to try and get people to quit believing God's promises and start believing that they have lost their salvation.

If they turn away from the Lord and quit walking with Him... then they will not go to Heaven because they have been deceived in to turning away from the Lord and forsaking their own salvation.

That's slow... don't do that...

 

[stonesoffire]

a·pos·ta·sy
[əˈpästəsē]




NOUN

apostasies (plural noun)

• the abandonment or renunciation of a religious or political belief.
  
  
  The word itself is not in scripture.
  
  
  

 

[Rockrz]

The word itself is not in scripture

But the act certainly is...

1 Timothy 4:1,2
Now the Spirit speaks expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron

("depart from the faith" is not referring to sinners in the world who never came to faith in the first place)


2 Timothy 4:3,4
For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine (teaching); but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.


2 Peter 2:1-3
But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying (contradicting) the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.
And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of.
And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingereth not, and their damnation slumbereth not.


Jude 1:4
For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness (no self control, living after the flesh), and denying (contradicting, opposing Jesus’ teachings) the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ. (referring to false teachers and false brethren - see Matthew 13:24-30)

(Deny = Strong's G0720… to contradict, disavow, reject, abnegate, deny, refuse - and Strong's G4483… the idea of pouring forth, to utter, speak of or say, command)


Jude 1:17-21
Remember the words which were spoken before of the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ;
How that they told you there should be mockers in the last time, who should walk after their own ungodly lusts.
These are those who separate themselves, sensual, having not the Spirit.
But you, beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Ghost,
Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life.

("those who separate themselves" is not referring to sinners in the world who were never joined unto the Lord in the first place)


2 Thessalonians 2:1-3
Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
That you be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition.


Matthew 24:3-13
What shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?
And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ (saying I am anointed); and shall deceive many.
And you shall hear of wars and rumors of wars: see that you be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.
For nation shall rise against nation (ethnic group vs ethnic group), and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in many different places.
All these are the beginning of sorrows.
Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.
And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.
And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.
And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold. (See 1 John 5:3 AND 2 John 1:6)
But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

 

[MattforJesus]

1Ti 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
1Ti 4:2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;
1Ti 4:3 Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.
1Ti 4:4 For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving:
1Ti 4:5 For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer.

2Ti 4:2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.
2Ti 4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
2Ti 4:4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.

This is not the general hypocrisy that goes on today,and has been going on for some time.

But this happens at the latter times,the last days of the last days,and is the new age religion,with an interpretation of the Bible that is based on the occult,nature worship,and witchcraft,and is about spiritual evolution through nature.

In the future there will be a unified religious system,whose standard format is of the new age movement,and all religions are valid for spiritual evolution,whatever path a person wants to take,for it is all about nature,and people are responsible for their own spiritual evolution,with an interpretation of the Bible,Islam,and Judaism,that fits the format.

It will be the time the world will not accept the truth of the Bible,but want to hear it according to their own lusts,which is personal power through nature to exalt people,and will heap teachers to themselves that will teach what they want to hear,for there will be many teachers saying different things,for there are many paths to lead to spiritual enlightenment.

Many people that did have faith in the Bible,went after the new age movement,because their faith was not strong enough,and many more claiming the Bible will give over to them,and one day the world will not want to listen to the Bible according to the truth,but will want to hear it according to the unified religious system.

 

[stonesoffire]

Somewhere in my Oxford study bible is this teaching about coming under the light for a time....then fully coming through the light or the door, to a new nature.

Could all these warnings of "apostasy" be because of some who hear but are not the good ground prepared?

But, when the good ground is tilled, watered, and seeded, then new life appears?

I know that as a child I heard the gospel and heard invitations practically every sunday. I believed...claimed being a Christian, but it wasn't until this one day...when Holy Spirit presents a choice to me...that I was born from above.

I tend to believe that the new nature is just like. The nature of God. Then He works mightily in His power on the inside of us...not the outer.

 

[stonesoffire]

I just read your post again rock...and I have to fully agree with Matt.

It is future events in all of them isn't it?

 

[Roughsoul1991]

a·pos·ta·sy
[əˈpästəsē]




NOUN

apostasies (plural noun)

• the abandonment or renunciation of a religious or political belief.
  
  
  The word itself is not in scripture.
  
  
  

Is the word trinity in the bible? Guess that makes it false too.

Or maybe its how we define the possible end result of falling away.

 

[Roughsoul1991]

I just read your post again rock...and I have to fully agree with Matt.

It is future events in all of them isn't it?

A lot of these scriptures was talking about the age of churches in which we now live in, excluding the great apostasy that will happen in the end of times.

You can see this start in acts and then you see the churches in revelation also deal with this.

 

[Grace777x70]

The reality is people can be going to church every time the doors are open, praying 5 hours a day, read their bibles 3 hours every day, witness to every thing that moves, be pastoring a church for 30 years, read the scriptures in Greek and Hebrew, live good moral lives and still be "fallen away" from the faith.

The "fallen away" which is the Greek word [FONT="Gentium" !important]aphistēmi [/FONT]really means to "with draw from, depart from, abstain from

People "fall away from the faith" when they rely on what they do or don't do for life and righteousness instead of relying on what Christ has already done.

 

[followjesus]

So i am curious to see everyones interpretations of scriptures speaking of apostasy or scripture leading to apostasy. This one idea if warned to believers is the core debate of free will.

Ephesians 2:8 Holman Christian Standard Bible (HCSB)

8 For you are saved by grace through faith, and this is not from yourselves; it is God’s gift—

The argument is people saying we are saved past tense but this same churched has some very serious warning in revelation.

Revelation 2:4-7Holman Christian Standard Bible (HCSB)

4 But I have this against you: You have abandoned the love you had at first. 5 Remember then how far you have fallen; repent, and do the works you did at first. Otherwise, I will come to you[a] and remove your lampstand from its place—unless you repent. 6 Yet you do have this: You hate the practices of the Nicolaitans, which I also hate.

7 “Anyone who has an ear should listen to what the Spirit says to the churches. I will give the victor the right to eat from the tree of life, which is in God’s paradise.

Either Paul contridicts himself in many different places or when he means persevere thats what he means.


1 Corinthians 9:25-27Holman Christian Standard Bible (HCSB)

25 Now everyone who competes exercises self-control in everything. However, they do it to receive a crown that will fade away, but we a crown that will never fade away. 26 Therefore I do not run like one who runs aimlessly or box like one beating the air. 27 Instead, I discipline my body and bring it under strict control, so that after preaching to others, I myself will not be disqualified.

I just cant help but wonder why all the training and worry about being disqualified if the crown is already won before the race.

I see faith as something we must remain in to receive the crown.

I see the warnings related to apostasy is toward believers. It would be redundant to warn believers from apostate teachers if they couldn't of been influenced because of eternal security.

when theology is based on a few verses, negating the context such as

For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9Not of works, lest any man should boast. <<< if you just accept this it leads to a view of effortless nothing for you to do , period the end.

The terrible flaw is that the very next verse says

"For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them." << so no one boasting because all are saved by grace like noah was ( gen.6:8) yet Just because noah found "favor" the following verses show God giving noah detailed instructions of what noah is to do, and noah faithfully does what God said to do, and is saved. Had grace meant god gave favor to noah and god magically produced an ark and placed noah and all his family and animals into it then it would be different, Noah was warned and instructed because God had favor on him. He was saved by Grace, through His faith in what God had said so of course He did those things God said because He believed God was telling the truth, Just s is for us.

hebrews 11:7 "By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith."

so we can understand that the righteousness of faith is to have faith to do what God has said to do. Grace and faith working together is salvation, had noah heard that God gave Him favor and ended there He would have drown woth the world. Noah moved because He believed Gods warning of the coming flood, just like were taught to do in the nt. if we believe God His warnings are true and who wouldnt move and do what thier God says?


just a thought regarding apostacy, it existed in the ot as well and comes when people disregard what God has said or change it to what it isnt and enough people follow. apostacy is when God turns from man after a season of rebellion, the prophets then are speaking from themselves as in the many times God says that in the ot. God is good and gracious, but He is also consistant in His many warnings from old to new from genesis to revelation those warnings are the same importance as the blessings He offers. as it has always been when we just accept the good words and deny the warnings it leads to a state of apostacy and it spreads like sin does to others

 

[mailmandan]

Just because noah found "favor" the following verses show God giving noah detailed instructions of what noah is to do, and noah faithfully does what God said to do, and is saved. Had grace meant god gave favor to noah and god magically produced an ark and placed noah and all his family and animals into it then it would be different, Noah was warned and instructed because God had favor on him. He was saved by Grace, through His faith in what God had said so of course He did those things God said because He believed God was telling the truth, Just s is for us.

hebrews 11:7 "By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith."

Noah had already "found grace" (Genesis 6:8), was "a preacher of righteousness" (2 Peter 2:5), and "walked with God" BEFORE he built the ark. His obedience was a DEMONSTRATION of his faith, not the origin of it. Building the ark demonstrated that his faith was genuine and saved him (physically) from drowning, yet Noah did not remain a lost man until the ark was finished being built.

 

[PeterJens]

The truth is some never come to faith in Christ but do the church thing.

Others take the whole of scripture and reinterpret the words and create another faith.
This is apostacy, but appears to be widespread.

The thing is the congregations do not know it, and many follow the Lord despite the
aberrant teaching of others.

I just praise the Lord that His word is there and love and the Holy Spirit working
in believers hearts has always been just what we need.

 

[Roughsoul1991]

Apostasy - Christians

 

[Roughsoul1991]

Noah is just another great example of true faith. A active faith. God told Noah build a ark im going to flood the world.

In faith he believed Gods words

In obedience he built.

In faith Noah used the measurements

In obedience he took male and female 2 of every
creature.

In faith he left closing the door on the ark to God

Faith to faith to faith = living faith

Continued surrender to the will of God.

 

[followjesus]

Noah had already "found grace" (Genesis 6:8), was "a preacher of righteousness" (2 Peter 2:5), and "walked with God" BEFORE he built the ark. His obedience was a DEMONSTRATION of his faith, not the origin of it. Building the ark demonstrated that his faith was genuine and saved him (physically) from drowning, yet Noah did not remain a lost man until the ark was finished being built.

yeah i couldnt disagree with that, but had he not done His part is my point action is faith faith is only complete when it moves to action. like james teaches faith without works is dead. we too are called "righteoous" beforehand, and have found grace beforehand, the point is that if we then do not do what God has said, its counterfit. we should always be working toward the goal of naturally obeying God. Not arguing whether an action is required of course the actions are required, the fact that they come from faith is true lol and faith comes from the Word. in other words when you follow James 1:22 you are displaying the faith you profess.

if the mindset is " rest dont work as God commands" it works against everything and faith is useless. because Noahs faith saved Him, because Gods grace warned Him. when we come to Christ, we have claim to righteousness, even beyond noah. Noah was found righteous in His time.......so is every true Believer before they ever do a thing, faith has to build the ark Commanded By God tho orthe flood is coming and theres no boat. Noah became the Heir AFTER His actions again

hebrews 11:7 "By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, MOVED with fear, prepared an ark TO THE SAVING of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and BECAME HEIR of the righteousness which is by faith."

Righteousness is something We are taught or " commanded" like noah was commanded, the gift of righteousness can only come from faith in the Word of God as being true infallibly. We have to believe in Jesus, because if we dont we will never take His word seriously enough to do what He has taught. Faith comes from Hearing the word, it saves when the word is done because we actually do believe it will save us...again...Like noah He moved and built because God said to and He believed God.

 

[followjesus]

Noah is just another great example of true faith. A active faith. God told Noah build a ark im going to flood the world.

In faith he believed Gods words

In obedience he built.

In faith Noah used the measurements

In obedience he took male and female 2 of every
creature.

In faith he left closing the door on the ark to God

Faith to faith to faith = living faith

Continued surrender to the will of God.

amen . i think when faith is not defined as simply saying faith, but defined " faithfulness" we have much better of an understanding. through time man has redefined alot of terms in our minds eye. hebrews 11 is wonderful along with james for understanding what faith is paul never defines faith in His writings He just uses the term alot. by learning Gods word it is defined rather than Just being a word paul uses in his epistles. in those days people understood faith much better.

all that said, Obedience is something that comes from very first step of accepting all the word says of it until it is clear that we need to actually do those things, thats the issue with " resting in the finished work" so many are walking by noah explaining how God never said to build the ark" and convincing others to toss thier tools away and get rid of the blueprints....

 

[Roughsoul1991]

amen . i think when faith is not defined as simply saying faith, but defined " faithfulness" we have much better of an understanding. through time man has redefined alot of terms in our minds eye. hebrews 11 is wonderful along with james for understanding what faith is paul never defines faith in His writings He just uses the term alot. by learning Gods word it is defined rather than Just being a word paul uses in his epistles. in those days people understood faith much better.

all that said, Obedience is something that comes from very first step of accepting all the word says of it until it is clear that we need to actually do those things, thats the issue with " resting in the finished work" so many are walking by noah explaining how God never said to build the ark" and convincing others to toss thier tools away and get rid of the blueprints....

Yes it all begins with God i trust you and out of trust and love we DO.

But trust me doing the good works God calls me to do many times isnt the easiest choice. Either out fear, tiredness, bad timing, laziness, etc will try really hard to keep me from these works.

People on here want to try and say by faith we are only supernaturally moved to do good works, but forget we also are supernaturally tempted in the opposite direction tempting us in our flesh. And somewhere in the middle free choice still stands between right and wrong.