Study on Apostasy.

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Roughsoul1991

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Sep 17, 2016
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#41
Originally Posted by Grace777x70


So, in other words . Salvation ( as in being one with the Lord for eternity ) must be earned by what we do. That's a major violation of the gospel of the grace of God in Christ and it is called works-righteousness.

I see 2 aspects of "salvation' -

1) sealed with the Holy Spirit when we believe on Christ with our hearts - sealed until the day of redemption. Eph 1:13 and Eph. 4:30.

2) being saved from the things in this life that can occur - like not living or experiencing peace even though we have the peace of Christ. If we don't believe it or are taught wrong - then we will not experience the saving of our soul ( which means life ).

Does this mean we go to hell because we are not experiencing this life which is really ours in Christ? This is where the works of the flesh can wreck our lives while on this earth and there are many warnings about this.



I just cannot read scripture like you do highlighted in red. For when i see soul i do not take that as mortal life i see it as eternal life[

/QUOTE]

The Greek word for soul is used many times referring to life on this earth.

Here it is used speaking of Jesus's life. The Greek word "psuche" is used but translated as "life".

Matthew 2:20 (NASB)
[SUP]20 [/SUP] "Get up, take the Child and His mother, and go into the land of Israel; for those who sought the Child's life are dead."

Here Jesus Himself is using the Greek word for "soul" and meaning things pertaining to this life on earth.

Matthew 6:25 (NASB)
[SUP]25 [/SUP]
"For this reason I say to you, do not be worried about your life, as to what you will eat or what you will drink; nor for your body, as to what you will put on. Is not life more than food, and the body more than clothing?

Here is another one pertaining to life here on this earth. There are many more so I'll stop here.

Mark 3:4 (NASB)
[SUP]4 [/SUP] And He *said to them, "Is it lawful to do good or to do harm on the Sabbath, to save a life or to kill?" But they kept silent.
And so do you now read every word that says life or soul in context when it fits or out of context when it doesnt.

And im sorry i cannot swallow the Calvinist view that faith is also a work, since thats the only thing God commands us to have.

Once you do that then your basically saying we are just bodies of flesh going through life while some are chosen to be given faith and others are not.

Thats pre election of God choosing some.

Does evil still exist? If so, so does your free will.

Can the Devil still have influence on a believer? Yes of course and in that again proves we are still under free will to choose.
 

Roughsoul1991

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Sep 17, 2016
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#42
1Ti 2:3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;
1Ti 2:4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

Joh 1:9 That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.

Act 10:34 Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:
Act 10:35 But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.

2Pe 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

Rev 22:17 And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.

1Ti 4:10 For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

Mat 22:14 For many are called, but few are chosen.

1Co 10:12 Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall.

It is obvious that God wants all people to be saved,for Jesus lights every person born in to this world,and the Spirit and bride,say,anybody can have that salvation.

It cannot be denied that God wants all people to be saved,and we have to harmonize scriptures.

Rom 4:16 Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,
Rom 4:17 (As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations,) before him whom he believed, even God, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not as though they were.

God calls things that have not happened yet,as though they already happened,for everything God planned out will surely come to pass.

Rev 13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

Considered it happened from the foundation of the world,although it was a future event.

Luk 11:50 That the blood of all the prophets, which was shed from the foundation of the world, may be required of this generation.

Considered it happened from the foundation of the world,future event.

Heb 4:3 For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.

All the works finished from the foundation of the world,although future events.

God had the plan to give mankind salvation from the foundation of the world,so all who choose that salvation it is the same as if they have salvation from the foundation of the world.

God wants all to be saved,so we have a choice in the matter of salvation,and it cannot be denied,so the only thing that makes sense is that all who choose that salvation it is the same as if they have that salvation from the foundation of the world,not God chooses who will saved,and not saved,without their input.

The thing is some people want to take away the choice and responsibility,for comfort to them.
Exactly thats how i see things pertaining to past tense. Even if its future we are still to believe it now because God tells us it will happen so i automatically believe it trusting in Gods word
 
Nov 22, 2015
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#43
Originally Posted by Grace777x70


So, in other words . Salvation ( as in being one with the Lord for eternity ) must be earned by what we do. That's a major violation of the gospel of the grace of God in Christ and it is called works-righteousness.

I see 2 aspects of "salvation' -

1) sealed with the Holy Spirit when we believe on Christ with our hearts - sealed until the day of redemption. Eph 1:13 and Eph. 4:30.

2) being saved from the things in this life that can occur - like not living or experiencing peace even though we have the peace of Christ. If we don't believe it or are taught wrong - then we will not experience the saving of our soul ( which means life ).

Does this mean we go to hell because we are not experiencing this life which is really ours in Christ? This is where the works of the flesh can wreck our lives while on this earth and there are many warnings about this.





And so do you now read every word that says life or soul in context when it fits or out of context when it doesnt.

And im sorry i cannot swallow the Calvinist view that faith is also a work, since thats the only thing God commands us to have.

Once you do that then your basically saying we are just bodies of flesh going through life while some are chosen to be given faith and others are not.

Thats pre election of God choosing some.

Does evil still exist? If so, so does your free will.

Can the Devil still have influence on a believer? Yes of course and in that again proves we are still under free will to choose.
Words have different meanings depending on the context. Every language has that truth in it. I have showed you where the Greek word for "soul" does mean have to do with "this life while on earth" in some contexts.

I don't have a clue what you are talking about when you said - "bodies of flesh going through life while some are chosen to be given faith and others are not". Where in the world did you ever get that from?

I don't believe that nonsense for a minute. God loves the world and Christ died for the whole world.

On the contrary - I have written this maybe over 50x times on here. - For it is God who is at work in you both to will ( to give us the desire ) and to do ( gives the capability) of His good pleasure. Phil. 2:13

We don't save ourselves. Christ is called the Savior. Jesus is not a liar. He said the Holy Spirit will be in you forever. John 14:16 - Was He lying to us? Is Jesus really a lair? Maybe He's a car-salesman that only says things to get you "in"...then He comes out with the fine print.

No, of course not - Jesus speaks the truth and He meant what he said. we are "believers" for a reason.
 
Jan 27, 2013
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#44
So i am curious to see everyones interpretations of scriptures speaking of apostasy or scripture leading to apostasy. This one idea if warned to believers is the core debate of free will.

Ephesians 2:8 Holman Christian Standard Bible (HCSB)

8 For you are saved by grace through faith, and this is not from yourselves; it is God’s gift—

The argument is people saying we are saved past tense but this same churched has some very serious warning in revelation.

Revelation 2:4-7Holman Christian Standard Bible (HCSB)

4 But I have this against you: You have abandoned the love you had at first. 5 Remember then how far you have fallen; repent, and do the works you did at first. Otherwise, I will come to you[a] and remove your lampstand from its place—unless you repent. 6 Yet you do have this: You hate the practices of the Nicolaitans, which I also hate.

7 “Anyone who has an ear should listen to what the Spirit says to the churches. I will give the victor the right to eat from the tree of life, which is in God’s paradise.

Either Paul contridicts himself in many different places or when he means persevere thats what he means.


1 Corinthians 9:25-27Holman Christian Standard Bible (HCSB)

25 Now everyone who competes exercises self-control in everything. However, they do it to receive a crown that will fade away, but we a crown that will never fade away. 26 Therefore I do not run like one who runs aimlessly or box like one beating the air. 27 Instead, I discipline my body and bring it under strict control, so that after preaching to others, I myself will not be disqualified.

I just cant help but wonder why all the training and worry about being disqualified if the crown is already won before the race.

I see faith as something we must remain in to receive the crown.

I see the warnings related to apostasy is toward believers. It would be redundant to warn believers from apostate teachers if they couldn't of been influenced because of eternal security.

you have a pray life, if your a believer, that would involve asking the god ,you believe in.

the fact you quote from a book of the bible that is not read as wrote. only prove the point.

it would make it impossible to discern anything from your post that a quote from the bible is used.
 
Jan 27, 2013
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#45
ie seven churches are in modern day turkey, in rev etc
 

Roughsoul1991

Senior Member
Sep 17, 2016
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#46
Words have different meanings depending on the context. Every language has that truth in it. I have showed you where the Greek word for "soul" does mean have to do with "this life while on earth" in some contexts.

I don't have a clue what you are talking about when you said - "bodies of flesh going through life while some are chosen to be given faith and others are not". Where in the world did you ever get that from?

I don't believe that nonsense for a minute. God loves the world and Christ died for the whole world.

On the contrary - I have written this maybe over 50x times on here. - For it is God who is at work in you both to will ( to give us the desire ) and to do ( gives the capability) of His good pleasure. Phil. 2:13

We don't save ourselves. Christ is called the Savior. Jesus is not a liar. He said the Holy Spirit will be in you forever. John 14:16 - Was He lying to us? Is Jesus really a lair? Maybe He's a car-salesman that only says things to get you "in"...then He comes out with the fine print.

No, of course not - Jesus speaks the truth and He meant what he said. we are "believers" for a reason.
Of course we cant save ourselves but God calls us to put our trust in that and thats the trust that must remain
 

Roughsoul1991

Senior Member
Sep 17, 2016
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#47
you have a pray life, if your a believer, that would involve asking the god ,you believe in.

the fact you quote from a book of the bible that is not read as wrote. only prove the point.

it would make it impossible to discern anything from your post that a quote from the bible is used.
I have prayed and asked God and what he has told and shown me many agree with but then the other half does not, claiming God has also shown them also. So you see how annoying this is.
 
Nov 22, 2015
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#48
Of course we cant save ourselves but God calls us to put our trust in that and thats the trust that must remain

An understanding of the new creation in Christ which has been created in righteousness and holiness will help you with this as well as knowing the difference between belief in the heart and confusion that can come in our minds.
 

Roughsoul1991

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Sep 17, 2016
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#49

An understanding of the new creation in Christ which has been created in righteousness and holiness will help you with this as well as knowing the difference between belief in the heart and confusion that can come in our minds.
I do not feel as if i am misunderstanding. I feel God wants a relationship with us and how long will a relationship last if we no longer choose to grow in our relationship with Christ. If we no longer have faith in the only one who gives us grace.
 

Roughsoul1991

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Sep 17, 2016
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#50
[h=1]2 Corinthians 11:3-4Holman Christian Standard Bible (HCSB)[/h][FONT=&quot]3 But I fear that, as the serpent deceived Eve by his cunning, your minds may be seduced from a complete and pure[a] devotion to Christ. 4 For if a person comes and preaches another Jesus, whom we did not preach, or you receive a different spirit, which you had not received, or a different gospel, which you had not accepted, you put up with it splendidly!


Complete and pure devotion to Christ and Paul is worried about these as some will say, true believers because they started to put up with teachings perverting the gospel and so much so splendidly doing it.

This warning would be pointless if it wasn't to believers nd if Paul didn't care enough to try and save these believers who he loved.
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Dec 2, 2016
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#51
It sure gets tiring reading where folks twist the scriptures in order to make the bible appear to agree with their own ideas. I was a very strong believer of OSAS for years until I was really challenged on it. Boy, I was mad, I thought, I am going to get my bible and prove that guy wrong. Then the Lord spoke to me, go ahead and study but do not try to prove the man wrong, just find what they scriptures actually say. After reading the scriptures in an honest manner I found that a real Christian can turn from God and become lost. It is not something I like to think about, and I do not believe that God will let one who is really saved go away easily...however it IS possible. We have a free choice. The bible tells us that Cain was a sinner and of the evil one, however it did not have to go that way, God came to Cain and told him how to overcome evil and be accepted, Cain just decided to go the other way. OSAS misses the obvious, God does not take away out free will after salvation.
 

Roughsoul1991

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#52
[h=1]Hebrews 6:4-6Holman Christian Standard Bible (HCSB)[/h][FONT=&quot]4 For it is impossible to renew to repentance those who were once enlightened, who tasted the heavenly gift, became companions with the Holy Spirit, 5 tasted God’s good word and the powers of the coming age, 6 and who have fallen away, because,[a] to their own harm, they are recrucifying the Son of God and holding Him up to contempt.

Another scripture to believers who was enlightened, tasted the heavenly gift of grace, became partakers of the Holy Spirit, tasted Gods words and the powers of the Spirit( promise of things to come), and still has warnings to be cautious of falling away.[/FONT]
 

Roughsoul1991

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Sep 17, 2016
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#53
It sure gets tiring reading where folks twist the scriptures in order to make the bible appear to agree with their own ideas. I was a very strong believer of OSAS for years until I was really challenged on it. Boy, I was mad, I thought, I am going to get my bible and prove that guy wrong. Then the Lord spoke to me, go ahead and study but do not try to prove the man wrong, just find what they scriptures actually say. After reading the scriptures in an honest manner I found that a real Christian can turn from God and become lost. It is not something I like to think about, and I do not believe that God will let one who is really saved go away easily...however it IS possible. We have a free choice. The bible tells us that Cain was a sinner and of the evil one, however it did not have to go that way, God came to Cain and told him how to overcome evil and be accepted, Cain just decided to go the other way. OSAS misses the obvious, God does not take away out free will after salvation.
Amen as I agree we have the Spirit helping us and fighting within us to help us grow or bring us back. As to the whole reason the Spirit lives in us forever to always help us and always try to bring us back. But I have said time and again God sent us a helper, not an enforcer. We still have to choose to listen to God or grieve/quench the Holy Spirit by ignoring God. This is the Christian walk and active surrender which Faith being the very core of this surrender. This is not a work, its a bondservantude to God as we choose to surrender our lives to him.
 

Roughsoul1991

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Sep 17, 2016
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#54
[h=1]Romans 11:19-22Holman Christian Standard Bible (HCSB)[/h][FONT=&quot]19 Then you will say, “Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in.” 20 True enough; they were broken off by unbelief, but you stand by faith. Do not be arrogant, but be afraid. 21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, He will not spare you either. 22 Therefore, consider God’s kindness and severity: severity toward those who have fallen but God’s kindness toward you—if you remain in His kindness. Otherwise you too will be cut off.


Paul speaking to the gentile Christians speaking on not being arrogant into the belief that gentiles have some kind of upper hand because of the Jewish people's unbelief. But instead Paul reminds them to be afraid or be respectful because God is still a Holy God and if you dont remain in His kindness then you will too be cut off.

if thou continue in his goodness — That is, walk worthy of this privilege, into which thou art brought by God’s goodness: or, if thou be careful to maintain thine interest in God’s favour by continuing to depend upon, and comply with the design of his free grace, and endeavouring to please him continually: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off — From communion with God and his people. -Benson commentary [/FONT]
 

Roughsoul1991

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Sep 17, 2016
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#55

[h=1]Revelation 3:10-12English Standard Version (ESV)[/h][h=1][/h][h=1][/h][h=1][/h][FONT=&quot]10 Because you have kept my word about patient endurance, I will keep you from the hour of trial that is coming on the whole world, to try those who dwell on the earth. 11 I am coming soon. Hold fast what you have, so that no one may seize your crown. 12 The one who conquers, I will make him a pillar in the temple of my God. Never shall he go out of it, and I will write on him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, the new Jerusalem, which comes down from my God out of heaven, and my own new name.
[/FONT]


Revelation 3:11-12
. Behold, I come quickly — To put an end to those trials which for the present are so painful; hold that fast which thou hast — With resolute fidelity; that no man take thy crown — That no person or thing may prevent thy receiving that crown of everlasting glory which will be the gracious reward of thy continued fidelity. Him that overcometh — All opposing power by faith and patience; will I make a pillar in the temple of my God. -Benson commentary


Fidelity-
faithfulness to a person, cause, or belief, demonstrated by continuing loyalty and support.

That no man take thy crown. Here we see crown again just like in

[h=1]1 Corinthians 9:24-27Holman Christian Standard Bible (HCSB)[/h][FONT=&quot]24 Don’t you know that the runners in a stadium all race, but only one receives the prize? Run in such a way to win the prize. 25 Now everyone who competes exercises self-control in everything. However, they do it to receive a crown that will fade away, but we a crown that will never fade away. 26 Therefore I do not run like one who runs aimlessly or box like one beating the air. 27 Instead, I discipline my body and bring it under strict control, so that after preaching to others, I myself will not be disqualified.

A man of knowledge must recognize his need for self-examination and hard discipline- as Paul has in the course of his work- lest at the end, having taught others to run, he finds himself disqualified. (the interpreter's one volume commentary on the bible)

[/FONT]

[h=1]James 1:12Holman Christian Standard Bible (HCSB)[/h][FONT=&quot]12 A man who endures trials[a] is blessed, because when he passes the test he will receive the crown of life that God[b] has promised to those who love Him.


These 3 scriptures have the same greek translation for crown in 18 occurrences.

Faith is holding on to the promise we believe as true that Christ died for our sins and for those who love him will receive the crown of life. Holding on to this faith and no one will snatch the crown, except the very one who doesn't hold on to this faith is willfully denying this crown. We are in training to win this crown by growing in Faith so that when we endure trials and evil we won't be overcome but instead persevere by training in speech, in conduct, in love, in Faith, in purity, and in Spiritual gifts. So that we may preserve ourselves and rescue others who may hear the words of life.

[/FONT]

[h=1]1 Timothy 4:12-16Holman Christian Standard Bible (HCSB)[/h][FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot]. [FONT=&quot][/FONT][FONT=&quot]12 Let no one despise your youth; instead, you should be an example to the believers in speech, in conduct, in love,[b] in faith, in purity. [/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT][FONT=&quot]13 Until I come, give your attention to public reading, exhortation, and teaching. [/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT][FONT=&quot]14 Do not neglect the gift that is in you; it was given to you through prophecy, with the laying on of hands by the council of elders.[/FONT]15 [/FONT]Practice these things; be committed to them, so that your progress may be evident to all. 16 Pay close attention to your life and your teaching; persevere in these things, for by doing this you will save( greek translation preserve/ rescue) both yourself and your hearers.[/FONT]
 

Roughsoul1991

Senior Member
Sep 17, 2016
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#56
James 5:19-20New King James Version (NKJV)

Bring Back the Erring One

19 Brethren, if anyone among you wanders from the truth, and someone turns him back, 20 let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul[a] from death and cover a multitude of sins.

The soul being spoken of here is translated to this translation in greek below

"the (human) soul in so far as it is so constituted that by the right use of the aids offered it by God it can attain its highest end and secure eternal blessedness, the soul regarded as a moral being designed for everlasting life"
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
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#57
Which IMO has absolutely nothing to do with losing his salvation because of not being found fit for doing his ministry. There are rewards for ministry done by the grace of God in us.

That was the premise of your OP from what I gathered when I read it. This is what you are really getting at...right? Paul would lose his salvation because of not disciplining his body in regards to his ministry. Am I reading you correctly?
I was reading through the comments of Greek scholar AT Robertson on 1 Corinthians 9:27. He notes: Paul asks the question. What is the prize before Paul? Is it that reward of which he spoke in verse 1 Corinthians 9:18, his glorying of preaching a free gospel? Some try to argue that Paul was referring to the possibility of his rejection in his personal salvation at the end of the race. The problem that I see with this latter interpretation is I see a difference between a prize and a gift. A prize is something that you work for and earn where a gift is something that you freely accept without merit. Prize (brabeion) - the prize awarded to a victor, the reward (recognition) that follows triumph. That doesn't sound like a free gift (Romans 6:23; Ephesians 2:8). 1 Corinthians 3:14-15 mentions - If the work that anyone has built on the foundation survives, he will receive a reward. If anyone's work is burned up, he will suffer loss, (of reward) though he himself will be saved.

Paul does not seem to indicate any insecurity about his position - "Now there is in store for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous Judge, will award to me on that day--and not only to me, but also to all who have longed for his appearing" (2 Timothy 4:8). Also, in 1 Corinthians 9:24, Paul mentions - Do you not know that those who run in a race all run, but only one receives the prize? Run in such a way that you may obtain it. That doesn't sound like the gift of eternal life either. That sounds like an Olympic race where all run, but only one receives the gold medal. Would this mean that everyone else is disqualified from the race? Silver medal, bronze medal, no medal but finished the race, all disqualified from the race? Comparing that analogy with this passage of Scripture, that sounds like out of all of us believers who are in the race, only one of us is going to heaven. :eek:
 

Roughsoul1991

Senior Member
Sep 17, 2016
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#58
I was reading through the comments of Greek scholar AT Robertson on 1 Corinthians 9:27. He notes: Paul asks the question. What is the prize before Paul? Is it that reward of which he spoke in verse 1 Corinthians 9:18, his glorying of preaching a free gospel? Some try to argue that Paul was referring to the possibility of his rejection in his personal salvation at the end of the race. The problem that I see with this latter interpretation is I see a difference between a prize and a gift. A prize is something that you work for and earn where a gift is something that you freely accept without merit. Prize (brabeion) - the prize awarded to a victor, the reward (recognition) that follows triumph. That doesn't sound like a free gift (Romans 6:23; Ephesians 2:8). 1 Corinthians 3:14-15 mentions - If the work that anyone has built on the foundation survives, he will receive a reward. If anyone's work is burned up, he will suffer loss, (of reward) though he himself will be saved.

Paul does not seem to indicate any insecurity about his position - "Now there is in store for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous Judge, will award to me on that day--and not only to me, but also to all who have longed for his appearing" (2 Timothy 4:8). Also, in 1 Corinthians 9:24, Paul mentions - Do you not know that those who run in a race all run, but only one receives the prize? Run in such a way that you may obtain it. That doesn't sound like the gift of eternal life either. That sounds like an Olympic race where all run, but only one receives the gold medal. Would this mean that everyone else is disqualified from the race? Silver medal, bronze medal, no medal but finished the race, all disqualified from the race? Comparing that analogy with this passage of Scripture, that sounds like out of all of us believers who are in the race, only one of us is going to heaven. :eek:
He is speaking of a crown not a prize. Look up what crown means then come back and try to tell me the same thing.

The crown is the gift that the faithful are crowned apon the day of Christ. Without God their would be no crown so it is a gift to all who remain in faith. As it is said the gift of grace we are saved through faith.

Abide in faith is all God asks of us.

Stop with this irresistible grace, perseverance of the saints which basically falls into the whole tulip doctrine if you admit or not. You say God doesn't elect a chosen few and say free will exists but then if you believe irresistible grace. Thats not free will.

If we as believers still have to struggle with sinful thoughts and attacks from satan then free will exists.

As i said before that is the only way we can say God is good for allowing evil to exist. Is because he honors our free will. It brings God glory to give us a choice to choose right or wrong.

Do you think God would find it more praiseworthy to praise man for choosing to follow or for God to force man to follow?

Their is a reason God allowed the devil to act on Job. If God knew Job would of persevered then it would of been pointless to allow the devil to do so.
 

Roughsoul1991

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Sep 17, 2016
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#59
I was reading through the comments of Greek scholar AT Robertson on 1 Corinthians 9:27. He notes: Paul asks the question. What is the prize before Paul? Is it that reward of which he spoke in verse 1 Corinthians 9:18, his glorying of preaching a free gospel? Some try to argue that Paul was referring to the possibility of his rejection in his personal salvation at the end of the race. The problem that I see with this latter interpretation is I see a difference between a prize and a gift. A prize is something that you work for and earn where a gift is something that you freely accept without merit. Prize (brabeion) - the prize awarded to a victor, the reward (recognition) that follows triumph. That doesn't sound like a free gift (Romans 6:23; Ephesians 2:8). 1 Corinthians 3:14-15 mentions - If the work that anyone has built on the foundation survives, he will receive a reward. If anyone's work is burned up, he will suffer loss, (of reward) though he himself will be saved.

Paul does not seem to indicate any insecurity about his position - "Now there is in store for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous Judge, will award to me on that day--and not only to me, but also to all who have longed for his appearing" (2 Timothy 4:8). Also, in 1 Corinthians 9:24, Paul mentions - Do you not know that those who run in a race all run, but only one receives the prize? Run in such a way that you may obtain it. That doesn't sound like the gift of eternal life either. That sounds like an Olympic race where all run, but only one receives the gold medal. Would this mean that everyone else is disqualified from the race? Silver medal, bronze medal, no medal but finished the race, all disqualified from the race? Comparing that analogy with this passage of Scripture, that sounds like out of all of us believers who are in the race, only one of us is going to heaven. :eek:
We all have a race to run. Its called life and we are competing with self so your analogy doesnt fit the context.

And there you go using 1 Corinthians 3: 14 misinterpreting it and trying to make rewards the same as crown

Rewards and crown have completely different translations in greek
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
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#60
He is speaking of a crown not a prize. Look up what crown means then come back and try to tell me the same thing.

The crown is the gift that the faithful are crowned apon the day of Christ. Without God their would be no crown so it is a gift to all who remain in faith. As it is said the gift of grace we are saved through faith.
There are multiple crowns mentioned in Scripture. An imperishable crown (1 Corinthians 9:25); the crown of righteousness (2 Timothy 4:8), the crown of life (James 1:12), the crown of glory (1 Peter 5:4), the crown of rejoicing (1 Thessalonians 2:9) and upon the head of Jesus are said to be many crowns (Revelation 19:12). Paul mentions "prize" in 1 Corinthians 9:24. Regardless, Paul is talking about being disqualified for the prize, not losing salvation. A prize is not a gift.

We all have a race to run. Its called life and we are competing with self so your analogy doesnt fit the context.
My analogy fits. Paul said - "Do you not know that those who run in a race all run, but only one receives the prize? Run in such a way that you may obtain it." Believers are not running to obtain the gift of eternal life, but to receive the prize.

And there you go using 1 Corinthians 3:14 misinterpreting it and trying to make rewards the same as crown
Paul mentions reward, prize and crown in the context of 1 Corinthians 9. Regardless of how you view them, reward, prize and crown are not simply defined as salvation.

Rewards and crown have completely different translations in greek
So does crown and salvation.

Abide in faith is all God asks of us.
To abide is to remain and is not some extremely, difficult burden that most Christians will fail to do as if God will so easily allow us to slip through His fingers.

Stop with this irresistible grace, perseverance of the saints which basically falls into the whole tulip doctrine if you admit or not.
Stop with the tulip/Calvinistic labels. It's getting old. Whether you call it perseverance of the saints or preservation of the saints, it's a Biblical concept.

You say God doesn't elect a chosen few and say free will exists but then if you believe irresistible grace. Thats not free will.
Believers are new creations in Christ and God preserves His saints forever. You seem to believe the change is irrelevant and God is unable to preserve ALL of His saints. How many who are justified will be glorified? See Romans 8:30.

If we as believers still have to struggle with sinful thoughts and attacks from satan then free will exists.
Yes we will and yes it does, yet no one is able to snatch believers from the hand of the Lord (John 10:27-29).

As i said before that is the only way we can say God is good for allowing evil to exist. Is because he honors our free will. It brings God glory to give us a choice to choose right or wrong.
Genuine believers have chosen eternal life, not death (John 3:18).

Do you think God would find it more praiseworthy to praise man for choosing to follow or for God to force man to follow?
Following God is not forced or legalistic for genuine believers.

Their is a reason God allowed the devil to act on Job. If God knew Job would of persevered then it would of been pointless to allow the devil to do so.
God is omniscient and was not surprised by the perseverance of Job. Do you think that just maybe there was a lesson in it for the rest of us? That is not pointless.