Is Hell the Fifth Horseman of the Apocalypse?
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Hi Stones of Fire.
In the two verses you posted, how does Hades follow?
Is Hades on a Fifth Horse?
Or...
Is Hades an 'event' that takes place and isn't actually a 'being' of some sort?
In other words, the text might read something like...
"His name that sat on him was Death, and he brought a big can of "Hell" along with him to whoop people with"
or should it read...
"His name that sat on him was Death, and right behind him, following along, there was another horse and Hell sat upon it"
In the two verses you posted, how does Hades follow?
Is Hades on a Fifth Horse?
Or...
Is Hades an 'event' that takes place and isn't actually a 'being' of some sort?
In other words, the text might read something like...
"His name that sat on him was Death, and he brought a big can of "Hell" along with him to whoop people with"
or should it read...
"His name that sat on him was Death, and right behind him, following along, there was another horse and Hell sat upon it"
Oh, BTW...
I just want to mention that I believe the 'Four Spirits' in Zechariah are NOT the horses, but rather the Chariots themselves.
Why?
Because the Spirits are in the Wheels...
Ezekiel 1:20
"Whithersoever the spirit was to go, they went, thither was their spirit to go; and the wheels were lifted up over against them: for the spirit of the living creature was in the wheels"
I just want to mention that I believe the 'Four Spirits' in Zechariah are NOT the horses, but rather the Chariots themselves.
Why?
Because the Spirits are in the Wheels...
Ezekiel 1:20
"Whithersoever the spirit was to go, they went, thither was their spirit to go; and the wheels were lifted up over against them: for the spirit of the living creature was in the wheels"
The thing about horses in the Bible is that they are pictures of Jerusalem (Judah more broadly). However, that does not mean Jerusalem the city on a map, but it means the people associated with God, the congregations of the church age. When Jesus rides a horse it is the Bible's parable picture of Jesus using his people to go forth, whilst he is the master who has the reins and goes forth using them. We see that, of course, in Revelation. However, a nice verse showing the identity of the horse is in Zechariah: "for the LORD of hosts hath visited his flock the house of Judah, and hath made them as his goodly horse in the battle". Judah, being the broader location of Jerusalem is a picture of all those associated with God.
The four horsemen are pictures of the spiritual progression of the congregations, the people associated with God, over time during the church age:
The first horse is Jesus who has the reins of his people as he goes forth victoriously using them to spread the gospel. The gospel goes forth conquering spiritually speaking, and people are saved as they recieve it.
The second horse shows that the gospel brings division and there is a spiritual battle between those in the congregations who are saved and those who are not. Think not that Jesus came to bring peace, but division.
The third horse is a picture of the mourning that occurs since the congregations have need of repentence. The true believers (wheat and barley) are said to be measured and the holy spirit (oil) has not been withdrawn from the congregations yet.
The fourth horse is a way of saying that the congregations have become spiritually dead. Because of their sin, and unrepentant state, the Holy Spirit is withdrawn from that arena and the true believers have been rejected there, and have come out of her. That is why we find the true believers immediately thereafter under the altar (the place of Christ's sacrifice) asking how long until God avenges those who have destroyed the congregations in the spiritual sense. The condition of the congregations is described as "a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him". This is saying that Satan (death) holds spiritual sway in the congregations at that time, and the people who were dead in the spiritual sense (unsaved) follow Satan's lead in the congregations.
The four horsemen are pictures of the spiritual progression of the congregations, the people associated with God, over time during the church age:
The first horse is Jesus who has the reins of his people as he goes forth victoriously using them to spread the gospel. The gospel goes forth conquering spiritually speaking, and people are saved as they recieve it.
The second horse shows that the gospel brings division and there is a spiritual battle between those in the congregations who are saved and those who are not. Think not that Jesus came to bring peace, but division.
The third horse is a picture of the mourning that occurs since the congregations have need of repentence. The true believers (wheat and barley) are said to be measured and the holy spirit (oil) has not been withdrawn from the congregations yet.
The fourth horse is a way of saying that the congregations have become spiritually dead. Because of their sin, and unrepentant state, the Holy Spirit is withdrawn from that arena and the true believers have been rejected there, and have come out of her. That is why we find the true believers immediately thereafter under the altar (the place of Christ's sacrifice) asking how long until God avenges those who have destroyed the congregations in the spiritual sense. The condition of the congregations is described as "a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him". This is saying that Satan (death) holds spiritual sway in the congregations at that time, and the people who were dead in the spiritual sense (unsaved) follow Satan's lead in the congregations.
Revelation 6:8
"And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth"
So how did Hell follow?
A) Hell was on another horse following the other four
B) Hell sat on the same horse as Death
C) Hell wasn't on a horse
D) Other?
This is something I've always wondered about.
What are your thoughts?
"And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth"
So how did Hell follow?
A) Hell was on another horse following the other four
B) Hell sat on the same horse as Death
C) Hell wasn't on a horse
D) Other?
This is something I've always wondered about.
What are your thoughts?
"The (bottomless) pit" exists is for those who left their first estate (i.e. the fallen angels and demons; all spirit beings), but the man from Adam is not spirit. The man from Adam is flesh. That man is living soul.
To see where I'm coming from here are a few questions:
1. Where is Adam right now? God cursed him to return from whence he came. He didn't come from heaven or any spiritual place, so where did he go?
2. Scripture says the body returns to the dust of the earth and the spirit returns to God who gave it (Eccl 12:7). How can a man exist as a spirit in a spirit realm apart from God? The spirit returns to God who gave it, and God isn't in Hell.
3. As we know, everlasting life comes from faith in Christ. If a man doesn't have faith in Christ how are they "ever-lasting" anywhere else (such as a Hades/hell)? To say anyone can exist forever - anywhere else - apart from Christ contradicts the fact that only those who have faith in him receive "everlasting" life. So no man outside of faith in Christ is born of the spirit (but remains flesh); without Christ they can't have an immortal spirit to exist forever anywhere.
4. What is the original problem established in the first book of all of scripture? What's the problem that Paul explains in Romans and Corinthians? God didn't tell Adam if he ate of the forbidden tree he would surely be sent to hell. God said death is a surety.
5. What is the very last enemy said to be defeated in the last book of scripture?
---
Death is the problem my friend, and the grave is the issue and everlasting life is the solution. This is why the grave gets tossed in the burning lake (i.e. incinerator) when it's all said and done.
The story Christ told in Luke was a parable, no different than what he was accustomed to doing to teach a truth.
To see where I'm coming from here are a few questions:
1. Where is Adam right now? God cursed him to return from whence he came. He didn't come from heaven or any spiritual place, so where did he go?
2. Scripture says the body returns to the dust of the earth and the spirit returns to God who gave it (Eccl 12:7). How can a man exist as a spirit in a spirit realm apart from God? The spirit returns to God who gave it, and God isn't in Hell.
3. As we know, everlasting life comes from faith in Christ. If a man doesn't have faith in Christ how are they "ever-lasting" anywhere else (such as a Hades/hell)? To say anyone can exist forever - anywhere else - apart from Christ contradicts the fact that only those who have faith in him receive "everlasting" life. So no man outside of faith in Christ is born of the spirit (but remains flesh); without Christ they can't have an immortal spirit to exist forever anywhere.
4. What is the original problem established in the first book of all of scripture? What's the problem that Paul explains in Romans and Corinthians? God didn't tell Adam if he ate of the forbidden tree he would surely be sent to hell. God said death is a surety.
5. What is the very last enemy said to be defeated in the last book of scripture?
---
Death is the problem my friend, and the grave is the issue and everlasting life is the solution. This is why the grave gets tossed in the burning lake (i.e. incinerator) when it's all said and done.
The story Christ told in Luke was a parable, no different than what he was accustomed to doing to teach a truth.
Revelation 6:8
"And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth"
So how did Hell follow?
A) Hell was on another horse following the other four
B) Hell sat on the same horse as Death
C) Hell wasn't on a horse
D) Other?
This is something I've always wondered about.
What are your thoughts?
"And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth"
So how did Hell follow?
A) Hell was on another horse following the other four
B) Hell sat on the same horse as Death
C) Hell wasn't on a horse
D) Other?
This is something I've always wondered about.
What are your thoughts?
First Death and Hell are names
Second, Death is always accompanied by Hell
Third, the 4 horses represent those kings or leaders of every nation.
Fourth, these horses were described with mainly colors (white, red, black, pale)
Fifth, the colors represent the nature of the one sitting on him and are the ones who control the horses (kings/leaders of every nation)
So…
A) Hell was on another horse following the other four = No. There is no fifth horse mention in the Apocalypse or in the passage.
B) Hell sat on the same horse as Death = Possible since he was with Death
C) Hell wasn't on a horse = this is impossible; otherwise he cannot follow Death at the same time.
What if hell is a state of things, what if heaven is a state of things?
Coherence, incoherence, peace, chaos.
After all people say some things naturally like "I went through hell" (state) "I felt like I was in heaven" (state)
I think it was Dante who painted hell to be what people latched on to. People love a colourful negative.
Those who think that hell or heaven are physical places we go to, I find rarely have much of an imagination and let others, or the generalised view be their imagination.
The main description of hell in the bible is 'fire'. I should think this, in any persons imagination is a great hell. Imagine being burnt at the stake? Hey maybe the devil lives on the sun, that's a big lake of fire right?
These things are open to our own perceptions.
God after all has a long purple beard.
Coherence, incoherence, peace, chaos.
After all people say some things naturally like "I went through hell" (state) "I felt like I was in heaven" (state)
I think it was Dante who painted hell to be what people latched on to. People love a colourful negative.
Those who think that hell or heaven are physical places we go to, I find rarely have much of an imagination and let others, or the generalised view be their imagination.
The main description of hell in the bible is 'fire'. I should think this, in any persons imagination is a great hell. Imagine being burnt at the stake? Hey maybe the devil lives on the sun, that's a big lake of fire right?
These things are open to our own perceptions.
God after all has a long purple beard.
Good morning mj007,
Do not be deceived, heaven, Sheol/Hades, the Abyss and the Lake of Fire, are literal places. Regardless of what Dante or any other author may write, the word of God is clear regarding the existence of these places.
"Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell."
ll
Do not be deceived, heaven, Sheol/Hades, the Abyss and the Lake of Fire, are literal places. Regardless of what Dante or any other author may write, the word of God is clear regarding the existence of these places.
"Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell."
ll
Yes, states are real places of being. When I have been through hell in my life, literally the world conspired against me.
I'm fully aware of how the bible tends to define things in black and white, but if asked about the transition between light and dark there are no answers from anyone. I'm a questioner and there is nothing wrong with that.
And if no-on really has an answer, then it is really speculative rather than factual.
So what are your thoughts on what hell is, what is there, how it exists, where it might exist? I'm interested in what your imagination says about it.
The Bible does not say anything about time and space, so what happens if you read it without the perception of time? At the end, forever, never, even saved, can have different meanings.
I'm fully aware of how the bible tends to define things in black and white, but if asked about the transition between light and dark there are no answers from anyone. I'm a questioner and there is nothing wrong with that.
And if no-on really has an answer, then it is really speculative rather than factual.
So what are your thoughts on what hell is, what is there, how it exists, where it might exist? I'm interested in what your imagination says about it.
The Bible does not say anything about time and space, so what happens if you read it without the perception of time? At the end, forever, never, even saved, can have different meanings.
I so want to start a thread on this, but unfortunately my views are very controversial, though I believe they are Biblical.
It's kind of like the Church telling us an 'Easter Bunny' or 'Santa' story, only to find out we aren't being told the whole truth.
Imagine this on a epic grand scale to where 99% of Christians are still 'in the dark' so to speak.
It's that bad.
It's kind of like the Church telling us an 'Easter Bunny' or 'Santa' story, only to find out we aren't being told the whole truth.
Imagine this on a epic grand scale to where 99% of Christians are still 'in the dark' so to speak.
It's that bad.
Conclusion PT. 1
This Wikipedia page is designed to shed light on a Biblical Prophecy, referring to our present time and our future. To help the community understand these things, it is essential to identify the personage in which the prophecy references, so this is what we will be expressing here. Befeore we get to the core purpose and element, we will do a short recap of events leading up to the current state and matter at hand. We will do this by introducing a short documentary film referred to as "ISIS in Bible Prophecy: Six Trumpets Have Been Blown! Revelation 8 & 9"
. This documentary expresses historical events that have already occured, that match Biblical Prophecies. Once you have watched this and are caught up on the "Pre-lude" for this encyclopedia page we will begin.
To begin with, we will go over some basic definitions and acknowledgements for our atheistic viewers: to express the authenticity of the contents relayed. The first and foremost is the concept and understanding of "Religion". "Religion" means to "Link back to" https://quizlet.com/96116627/religion-quiz-flash-cards/ and here is a second http://www.academia.edu/4447360/Many_say_the_etymology_of_religion_lies_with_the_Latin_word_religare The word "Religion" is derived from the latin root "Religare" which transliterally means "link back", "tie", "bind". The concept of Religion in modern times is a modern reinactment of something that has historically occured; it has little to nothing to do with God; it can be anything. Over time however, many people and cultures and societies have misconstrued the concept of "Religion" with the concept of "Theology", so much so, that modern definitions of "Religion" introduce extra-curricular concepts indicating elements of religion, such as "Faith", "Belief", "Worship", "a pursuit or interest to which someone ascribes supreme importance", etc.. https://www.google.com/search?rlz=1...67j0i131i67j0i131i20i264j0i20i264.och3u_UuxOE Perhaps it is also a matter of the difference between translations and transliterations. Transliterations are direct transliteral ideas from a word or words from another language, and translations are ideas from a word from another language that have extra-applicaple notions and ideas applied by the ideas and thoughts, and indirect notions of that element from the ascribers. In otherwords it includes extra-curricular notions applied by man, that never had any real direct link to the original. Theology, however, is referred transliterally as "the Science of God" ("Theo" meaning "God" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theo and "ology" meaning science, as "ism" or "osophy" refers to an Art or an artistic notion of some sort https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/-ism as it is directly referencing an affiliation to a practice, "practice" meaning an occurrance of a subject rather than the development or advancement of that element. I have restricted a link to the definition of "ology" and "osophy" due to the fact that modern day Dictionaries have not been updated to express the distinct difference between science and art ("ology" and "osophy") thus giving misconstrued information, indicating that a study, which is an Art, can be classified under the definition of "ology", and a science being classified under the definition of "osophy" in a reverse fashion, meaning that "osophy" will tell you that the definition is that of a science in some cases, as the definition of "ology" will, in some cases, tell you it is an art which is inaccurate because "ology" is science and "osophy" is art.). "Theology" is the compilation of the works of God, that is a process that will never end, which is taken out of events from Mythological manuscripts from various cultures around the world that increases as "time" goes on and new recordings are made, therefore making Theology, technically a branch of Mythology. Mythology is often believed to be stories or ideas that are not real, however, this is inaccurate. Mythology contains elements containing the Pre-Christian world of God, and the other beings that surround his world, as compared to Theology, which exclusively focuses on God alone. Something becomes history when it can be proven as a fact, facts become proof when a hypothesized theory is put forth without being debunked by another thesis. A thesis is a set a facts supporting a theory, and a theory is an idea. A hypothesized theory, is a theory with a thesis, A.K.A. a hypothesis (hypotheses plural). Every day, elements of mythology become circumstantially varified by archaeology, paleontology, and relating or intertwining historical facts, and other sciences and arts, thus reclassifying mythologycal documents and placing them as History. This is done regularly, so much so, that even the existance of God has been circumstantially verified, without logical dispute, thus proving His existance. Based on thee facts and ideas, we can assume (stereotypically) that "Mythology" that hasn't been verified as History yet, is indeed True, until proven untrue, similar to the United States Judicial System, in which criminally charged persons are innocent until proven guilty. Because this is circumstantially verified, most academics classify "Mythology" as "Pre-History", as it outlines events surrounding God's world that lead up to the creation of Man, which is where "History" begins. "Religion" is a modern reinactment of something that has Historically occured. When practiced, it is "sociological", when applied it is "political", yet when it is simply studied, it is "Historical". It is Historical because the manuscripts express events that have been confirmed by evidence, which acadwmically classifies it has "Historical". Indeed, "Religion" is a branch of "History" deemed so by the academic community. However, the ideas and thoughts ascribed to Religious manuscripts applied by man outside of the revelation of prophecy from a higher power, where not reinforced by a thesis, cannot be counted as History, but only as Wisdom. Wisdom is the state of being Wise, "Wise" means to "Know", and one has the ability to know something in many different ways. Acaemics, Life experiance, and Prophecy or other similar devine experiances, such as mediumship for example. Simply put, Wisdom is the state of knowing something to be true without having compiled physical factual evidence, based on a persons intellect and common sense. Scientists know things all the time, yet they cannot ascribe them without viewing something objectively and convincing a populace, and the only way to do that is with evidence. And this is what we are here today to learn - Evidence, hence the purpose of explaining the definitions of these words, as many misunderstandings, including many wars in history, arise out of lack of knowing the definition of a word, and a word is a noise or noises applied to a thought or feeling to express a notion to another being. In otherwords, an atheist that may view this page, couldn't possibly logically deny the elements and notions contained within, because it is circumstantially factual, and not notionas and/or elements of "myth". The Bible is a compilation of books that outline historically confirmed events, that have been reinforced by Historical documents, archaeology, biology, paleontology (not to mention cross references to Mythological and Theological ducuments from various cultures around the world who had no way to communicate to one another).
This Wikipedia page is designed to shed light on a Biblical Prophecy, referring to our present time and our future. To help the community understand these things, it is essential to identify the personage in which the prophecy references, so this is what we will be expressing here. Befeore we get to the core purpose and element, we will do a short recap of events leading up to the current state and matter at hand. We will do this by introducing a short documentary film referred to as "ISIS in Bible Prophecy: Six Trumpets Have Been Blown! Revelation 8 & 9"
To begin with, we will go over some basic definitions and acknowledgements for our atheistic viewers: to express the authenticity of the contents relayed. The first and foremost is the concept and understanding of "Religion". "Religion" means to "Link back to" https://quizlet.com/96116627/religion-quiz-flash-cards/ and here is a second http://www.academia.edu/4447360/Many_say_the_etymology_of_religion_lies_with_the_Latin_word_religare The word "Religion" is derived from the latin root "Religare" which transliterally means "link back", "tie", "bind". The concept of Religion in modern times is a modern reinactment of something that has historically occured; it has little to nothing to do with God; it can be anything. Over time however, many people and cultures and societies have misconstrued the concept of "Religion" with the concept of "Theology", so much so, that modern definitions of "Religion" introduce extra-curricular concepts indicating elements of religion, such as "Faith", "Belief", "Worship", "a pursuit or interest to which someone ascribes supreme importance", etc.. https://www.google.com/search?rlz=1...67j0i131i67j0i131i20i264j0i20i264.och3u_UuxOE Perhaps it is also a matter of the difference between translations and transliterations. Transliterations are direct transliteral ideas from a word or words from another language, and translations are ideas from a word from another language that have extra-applicaple notions and ideas applied by the ideas and thoughts, and indirect notions of that element from the ascribers. In otherwords it includes extra-curricular notions applied by man, that never had any real direct link to the original. Theology, however, is referred transliterally as "the Science of God" ("Theo" meaning "God" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theo and "ology" meaning science, as "ism" or "osophy" refers to an Art or an artistic notion of some sort https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/-ism as it is directly referencing an affiliation to a practice, "practice" meaning an occurrance of a subject rather than the development or advancement of that element. I have restricted a link to the definition of "ology" and "osophy" due to the fact that modern day Dictionaries have not been updated to express the distinct difference between science and art ("ology" and "osophy") thus giving misconstrued information, indicating that a study, which is an Art, can be classified under the definition of "ology", and a science being classified under the definition of "osophy" in a reverse fashion, meaning that "osophy" will tell you that the definition is that of a science in some cases, as the definition of "ology" will, in some cases, tell you it is an art which is inaccurate because "ology" is science and "osophy" is art.). "Theology" is the compilation of the works of God, that is a process that will never end, which is taken out of events from Mythological manuscripts from various cultures around the world that increases as "time" goes on and new recordings are made, therefore making Theology, technically a branch of Mythology. Mythology is often believed to be stories or ideas that are not real, however, this is inaccurate. Mythology contains elements containing the Pre-Christian world of God, and the other beings that surround his world, as compared to Theology, which exclusively focuses on God alone. Something becomes history when it can be proven as a fact, facts become proof when a hypothesized theory is put forth without being debunked by another thesis. A thesis is a set a facts supporting a theory, and a theory is an idea. A hypothesized theory, is a theory with a thesis, A.K.A. a hypothesis (hypotheses plural). Every day, elements of mythology become circumstantially varified by archaeology, paleontology, and relating or intertwining historical facts, and other sciences and arts, thus reclassifying mythologycal documents and placing them as History. This is done regularly, so much so, that even the existance of God has been circumstantially verified, without logical dispute, thus proving His existance. Based on thee facts and ideas, we can assume (stereotypically) that "Mythology" that hasn't been verified as History yet, is indeed True, until proven untrue, similar to the United States Judicial System, in which criminally charged persons are innocent until proven guilty. Because this is circumstantially verified, most academics classify "Mythology" as "Pre-History", as it outlines events surrounding God's world that lead up to the creation of Man, which is where "History" begins. "Religion" is a modern reinactment of something that has Historically occured. When practiced, it is "sociological", when applied it is "political", yet when it is simply studied, it is "Historical". It is Historical because the manuscripts express events that have been confirmed by evidence, which acadwmically classifies it has "Historical". Indeed, "Religion" is a branch of "History" deemed so by the academic community. However, the ideas and thoughts ascribed to Religious manuscripts applied by man outside of the revelation of prophecy from a higher power, where not reinforced by a thesis, cannot be counted as History, but only as Wisdom. Wisdom is the state of being Wise, "Wise" means to "Know", and one has the ability to know something in many different ways. Acaemics, Life experiance, and Prophecy or other similar devine experiances, such as mediumship for example. Simply put, Wisdom is the state of knowing something to be true without having compiled physical factual evidence, based on a persons intellect and common sense. Scientists know things all the time, yet they cannot ascribe them without viewing something objectively and convincing a populace, and the only way to do that is with evidence. And this is what we are here today to learn - Evidence, hence the purpose of explaining the definitions of these words, as many misunderstandings, including many wars in history, arise out of lack of knowing the definition of a word, and a word is a noise or noises applied to a thought or feeling to express a notion to another being. In otherwords, an atheist that may view this page, couldn't possibly logically deny the elements and notions contained within, because it is circumstantially factual, and not notionas and/or elements of "myth". The Bible is a compilation of books that outline historically confirmed events, that have been reinforced by Historical documents, archaeology, biology, paleontology (not to mention cross references to Mythological and Theological ducuments from various cultures around the world who had no way to communicate to one another).