The time of Jacob's troubles

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abcdef

Senior Member
Mar 30, 2016
2,809
111
63
#21
Has the time of Jacob's troubles come yet?

And who really is Jacob?
,
.
The time of Jacob's trouble was from 70 ad until Israel was restored to control of Jerusalem in 1967.

During this time Israel, wild and natural, were persecuted by the 4th beast, iron legs, Rome.
 

NayborBear

Banned Serpent Seed Heresy
#22
It would help you I think, if you read Revelation 12, like "Readers Digest" (really telling my age here...:D)....Like a "very condensed" historical record, that transcends time and space. Or, "A, or the" Earth and Heaven age that was before Adam and Eve. Methinks there was a flood that Peter was describing in 2nd Peter (I think), that was not describing Noah's flood.
 

miknik5

Senior Member
Jun 2, 2016
7,833
588
113
#23
It would help you I think, if you read Revelation 12, like "Readers Digest" (really telling my age here...:D)....Like a "very condensed" historical record, that transcends time and space. Or, "A, or the" Earth and Heaven age that was before Adam and Eve. Methinks there was a flood that Peter was describing in 2nd Peter (I think), that was not describing Noah's flood.
No flood this time
Fire

and who can stand at the brightness of HIS coming?
 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
15,050
2,538
113
#24
Jacobs trouble is the great tribulation. The prophecy was given to Israel who is Jacob. It will be the method in which God brings judgment on wayward Israel so when they see Christ descend from the clouds they will see Him as their Messiah.

I am always concerned when I see so many conflicting ideas about Jacobs trouble and the great tribulation. Wow what a mess.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 

miknik5

Senior Member
Jun 2, 2016
7,833
588
113
#25
Jacobs trouble is the great tribulation. The prophecy was given to Israel who is Jacob. It will be the method in which God brings judgment on wayward Israel so when they see Christ descend from the clouds they will see Him as their Messiah.

I am always concerned when I see so many conflicting ideas about Jacobs trouble and the great tribulation. Wow what a mess.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
Thank you

and Ezekiel 5 hasn't happened yet

correct?
 

NayborBear

Banned Serpent Seed Heresy
#26
No flood this time
Fire

and who can stand at the brightness of HIS coming?
Methinks, tis the brightness of His coming, that is seen as "fire" that burns away, the rudiments OF evil and darkness. Reducing flesh man to mere blobs of quivering protoplasm! Some will stand taller then others, however all SHALL confess Jesus Christ AS Lord! I just described 2 events there!
 

miknik5

Senior Member
Jun 2, 2016
7,833
588
113
#28
Methinks, tis the brightness of His coming, that is seen as "fire" that burns away, the rudiments OF evil and darkness. Reducing flesh man to mere blobs of quivering protoplasm! Some will stand taller then others, however all SHALL confess Jesus Christ AS Lord! I just described 2 events there!
Why will some stand taller than others?
 

miknik5

Senior Member
Jun 2, 2016
7,833
588
113
#29
Lol how many times do you want Jerusalem destroyed ?
Are you for Jerusalem?

so when wil you warn them about Haggai 2
befire or after the temple is rebuilt
 

valiant

Senior Member
Mar 22, 2015
8,025
124
63
#30
Jacobs trouble is the great tribulation.
We agree on that :) Just a little matter of when it happened? Jesus said it was 70 ad onwards.

The prophecy was given to Israel who is Jacob. It will be the method in which God brings judgment on wayward Israel so when they see Christ descend from the clouds they will see Him as their Messiah.
It was given to Israel and fulfilled in 70 ad onwards.

I am always concerned when I see so many conflicting ideas about Jacobs trouble and the great tribulation. Wow what a mess.
The great tribulation and the time of Jacob's trouble were upon Israel from c 70 ad onwards. The mess is from latter day 'thinking'.
 

valiant

Senior Member
Mar 22, 2015
8,025
124
63
#31
Are you for Jerusalem?

so when wil you warn them about Haggai 2
befire or after the temple is rebuilt
The real Jerusalem is now the heavenly Jerusalem (Gal 4; Heb 12; Revelation).

Haggai 2 was addressed to Zerubbabel and Joshua. It has been fulfilled. The desire of all nations has come.

The literal Temple is now in Heaven where the souls are 'under the altar'. The earthly Temple, filled with His glory, is now the people of God.

Its all explained in the NT.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#32
Because HE opened their eyes. This is why they will break out of their yoke of the burden of their guilt and sin

for them THE STRONG MAN has not yet come to take them
out of (the kingdom of) darkness to give them the LIGHT of the knowledge of THE TRUTH so that they may be brought into THE KINGDOM of GOD in THE SON
He opens their eyes by this trouble he will send.. That is the reason for this time period.. God uses tribulation to get our minds back on him all the time..
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#33
I want to understand where 2 Thessalonians 2 happens

I do not agree that it has hapoened
I do not agree it is a restraining angel
and I do not agree that Satan is bound

please help me to understand what others are saying that appear to be contradicting scriptures

what is it you would like to know.

I agree, Satan is not bound now. He is on the lose and wreaking havoc. Just look at the world. Anyone can see Satan still has control because God has not restrained or bound him yet.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#34
I believe 2 Thessalonians 2 and the reason why evil will have full force reign is no different from the reason given in Job 1 (for Job, the "hedge" was removed)

and I believe this temporary struggle when evil runs rampant is the time of Jacob's struggles

if it isn't please remind me of scripture that contradicts my understanding
I am not sure what you are getting at.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#35
,
.
The time of Jacob's trouble was from 70 ad until Israel was restored to control of Jerusalem in 1967.

During this time Israel, wild and natural, were persecuted by the 4th beast, iron legs, Rome.
So Isreal repented and came to God?
 

NayborBear

Banned Serpent Seed Heresy
#36
Why will some stand taller than others?
You do have grey matter betweenst your ears, correct? You can think, correct? Apparently you can read. But, you seem not to digest very well, that which you have read. And, somehow feel some entitlement, to an explanation, that in a court of law, the lawyer for the defense would cry out, "OBJECTION!" Your honor!..."Asked, and Answered!" (always have to be on guard for foolish virgins) :(
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#37
We agree on that :) Just a little matter of when it happened? Jesus said it was 70 ad onwards.



It was given to Israel and fulfilled in 70 ad onwards.



The great tribulation and the time of Jacob's trouble were upon Israel from c 70 ad onwards. The mess is from latter day 'thinking'.

I usually do not respond to this person on these matters, it never ends up good.

But this I think is worth mentioning.

The time of Jacobs trouble was said to be "great, so that none is like it" Jesus said the time of great tribulation was to be so great, that none is like it.

It does not take much study to realize that what happened in or near AD 70 was nothing compared to WW1 or WW2. so by this alone, WW2 would be a far better answer of saying it fulfilled this time, than AD 70, Which does not fit. And no one would think WW2 was the fulfimlment

Which also leaves us to imagine a time of great tribulation far greater than these two world wars will occur in the future.. Which is why we should all be ready, if we go through it or not. We need to get people ready and bring them to God..
 
Mar 28, 2016
15,954
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#38
I would offer the time of Jacobs’s trouble began at the “time of reformation”, witnessed in Hebrews 9.

The Holy Ghost this signifying, that the way into the holiest of all was not yet made manifest, while as the first tabernacle was yet standing:
Which was a figure(parable) for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience;Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them “unti” the time of reformation. Heb 9:8

This is when the shadows used in ceremonial laws to preach the gospel according to the suffering of Christ beforehand had come to that time when things like temple worship were no longer effective in pronounces the gospel Christ has come… the veil is rent.. It was and still remains rent the great tribulation seeing the outward Jew no longer has a fleshly representative as in was during the period of Judges and men walked by faith according to the words of His prophecy before Israel rejected Him as King..It had come to and end.We walk by faith in respect to Him unseen
 
Mar 28, 2016
15,954
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#39
I think as in many cases the gospel is hid in the way God named His Bride the church giving meaning to the names.


Israel is the changed name from Jacob who was used as a type or figure to pass on the spiritual incorruptible seed as God’s word. It is found in the book of the generation of Christ, or the Lamb's book of life beginning with Abraham to typify our Holy Father in heaven as the father of many nations ( God), ending with the Son of man ,Christ in the flesh.

That generation represents all who do come to salvation as new creatures..

The book of “the generation” of Jesus Christ, the son of David, the son of Abraham.Abraham begat Isaac; and Isaac begat Jacob; and Jacob begat Judas and his brethren; Mat 1:1-2

Jacob previously meaning one who wrestles with another to get ahead as a heal holder\supplanter and overcomes another member of the flesh as God’s choice to represent the second Adam, Christ. The second birth is used that way in various parables. Like that of Abel or Isaac…etc

Gen 25:26 And after that came his brother out, and his hand took hold on Esau's heel; and his name was called Jacob: and Isaac was threescore years old when she bare them.

Strongs lexicon....03290 Ya`aqob {yah-ak-obe'}
from 06117;; n pr mAV - Jacob 349; 349

Jacob = "heel holder" or "supplanter" 1) son of Isaac, grandson of Abraham, and father of the 12 patriarchs of the tribes of Israel.

Israel which means “God prevails” I believe helps us to understand deceiving can overcome another, but not between God and man as if we did wrestle against flesh and blood and God was a man as us.

God overcomes in the end of all matters pertaining to the spirit not seen, the faith principle (law of faith) .

Strongs lexicon...03478 Yisra'el {yis-raw-ale'}
from 08280 and 0410;; n pr m
AV - Israel 2489, Israelites 16; 2505
Israel = "God prevails" 1) the second name for Jacob given to him by God after his wrestling with the angel at Peniel 2) the name of the descendants and the nation of the descendants of Jacob 2a) the name of the nation until the death of Solomon and the split 2b) the name used and given to the northern kingdom consisting of the 10 tribes under Jeroboam; the southern kingdom was known as Judah 2c) the name of the nation after the return from exile
 

abcdef

Senior Member
Mar 30, 2016
2,809
111
63
#40
So Isreal repented and came to God?
.
.

The trib ended when Israel, the natural branches, were restored to control of Jerusalem and the times of the gentiles, Lk 21:24 were ended.

I would make a comparison between WW 1, WW 2, and the dest of Jeru. in 70 ad.

Both were genocide by the millions.

From 70 ad until 1967, Israel was attacked by the Roman Beast, when Jeru. was restored to Israel the power of Rome over Israel ended.

As far as Israel as a nation accepting Jesus as the Messiah, I pray that they do, but the number of Israelites who accept Him is undetermined at this time.

Can we disregard the last 1900 years, and the persecution of the Roman beast?
Where millions died?