We Take Phoenixes to Heaven with Us

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stonesoffire

Poetic Member
Nov 24, 2013
10,665
1,829
113
#21
[h=1]Chol (Bible)[/h]
Chol (Hebrew: ח֗וֹל‎‎), in most passages of the Hebrew Bible, is a word for sand.[SUP][1][/SUP] It is used, for example, in the idiom "like sand" in which something (such as a population) is compared to sand in multitude. However, in one verse of the Bible, Job 29:18, the word chol is used with a disputed meaning.
The Westminster Leningrad Codex reads:
אֹמַר עִם־קִנִּ֣י אֶגְוָ֑ע וְ֝כַח֗וֹל אַרְבֶּ֥ה יָמִֽים׃
— Job 29:18 (WLC)
In one English translation, this reads:
Then I thought, ‘I shall die in my nest,
and I shall multiply my days like the phoenix; -- New Revised Standard Version
In the Greek Septuagint (circa 200 BCE), the translators used the Ancient Greek expression στέλεχος φοίνικος (stélechos phoínikos, "stem/trunk of a palm tree") when they reached the Hebrew chol in Job 29.[SUP][2][/SUP] Similarly, the Latin Vulgate (circa 400 CE), uses palma (Latin for "palm tree").[SUP][3][/SUP]
A number of English translations use the term "phoenix"[SUP][4][/SUP] in this verse, while the King James Version and the Luther Bibleuse "sand" (German "Sand").[SUP][5][/SUP] In Jewish folklore, chol refers to a supernatural bird, often glossed as, or identified with, the Greek phoenix.
Modern scholars have differed in their understanding of Job 29:18. Roelof Van den Broek (1971) believed that "sand" was the most appropriate interpretation in this verse, following the usage in other verses. On his interpretation, "multiply my days like the sand" would be a metaphor for a long life.[SUP][6][/SUP] On the other hand, Mitchell Dahood (1974) argued in favor of the interpretation "phoenix" on the basis of parallels between Job and Ugaritic texts.[SUP][7][/SUP]
The understanding of chol as a phoenix-like bird has resulted in an amount of discourse on the topic.[SUP][8][/SUP]


 
Nov 1, 2016
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#22
Wow stonesoffire! That was stunning!

A most excellent find.

I'm going to study that out further. :cool:

 

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
Nov 24, 2013
10,665
1,829
113
#24
I think it's the Amplified bible that actually uses Phoenix for the harbor that Paul's ship was heading for in Acts. Will check for sure later..

night to all.
 

J7

Banned
Apr 2, 2017
1,915
13
0
#25
Phoenix comes from Phoenician. That is why there are lots of ports in the Mediterranean with a derivative of this word for a name. e.g. Venice.


The Phoenicians came from Lebanon, and were famous craftsmen in wood, and other things, which is why Solomon used them to build the Temple.

[FONT=&quot]12 [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Psalm 92: 12-15
The righteous flourish like the palm tree,[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] and grow like a cedar in Lebanon.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]13 They are planted in the house of the Lord;[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] they flourish in the courts of our God.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]14 In old age they still produce fruit;[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] they are always green and full of sap,[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]15 showing that the Lord is upright;[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] he is my rock, and there is no unrighteousness in him.[/FONT]
 

tanakh

Senior Member
Dec 1, 2015
4,635
1,040
113
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#27
I remember reading something about a Phoenix from one of the church fathers but I cant remember which one. It was something to do with a christian having new life like a Phoenix rising from the ashes. back in those far off days people believed that creatures like those really existed.
 

Blain

The Word Weaver
Aug 28, 2012
19,212
2,547
113
#28
I remember reading something about a Phoenix from one of the church fathers but I cant remember which one. It was something to do with a christian having new life like a Phoenix rising from the ashes. back in those far off days people believed that creatures like those really existed.
Yes the phoenix is often used as reference to the believer because we literally rise from our own ashes of sin and darkness and are reborn anew but it doesn't just end there we go through an ongoing process of dying to ourselves and being reborn in Christ and also the ashes can be seen as when we are broken and weak and feel as if we cannot go on when suddenly when are given life and rise up from the ashes. The phoenix is the symbolism of the believers life in Christ constantly being reborn and remade in his image and represents the life that we were given we were dead
 

J7

Banned
Apr 2, 2017
1,915
13
0
#29
In the Odyssey, Phoinix means:

Phoenicians
Date Palms
Red Faced

but never the mythical bird.
 
B

BeyondET

Guest
#30
[video=youtube;AjWShOUdZGo]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AjWShOUdZGo[/video]
 
Dec 19, 2009
27,513
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#31
I can't help but wonder what the deeper meaning of that is.

Of all the things we can bring into Heaven, why the Phoenix?
Are you aware of the meaning of the phoenix, a bird that, in Greek mythology, rises from the dead? The idea here, I imagine, is that we will have a new beginning in the resurrection. I'm not aware of any references to the phoenix in the Bible, though.