Eternal and Forever are Mistranslations

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Apr 23, 2017
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#21
I can agree that in normal use of the word it can be seen this way.

But what about the expression "αἰῶνας τῶν αἰώνων", i.e. ages of the ages, or translated like "for ever and ever". It is quite obviously meant to express "without end".

For example in Rev 20:10
If there will be "no end" to the kingdom of Jesus Christ, and that those who will receive aeonial life will "never die", then "aeons of aeons" can certainly be implied to mean an endless continuum of aeons and aeons. But because of this implication, you cannot force "eternal" and "forever" unto this verse, because that is not exactly what was conveyed and written in these passages. There is no word for "eternal" and "forever" in the Greek and in the Hebrew.
 

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
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#22
That isn't so, because although aeonial itself does not mean non-ending, certain things described as aeonial are also described as "non-ending" separately, such as aeonial life, "becase whoever receives aeonial life will never die", especially since death will cease to exist in the aeon of the new heaven and new earth, and also the kingdom of Jesus Christ, for it is aeonial, and is also said that it will "never be destroyed" and will "never end". As such, just because these particular are non-ending, does not mean that everything described as aeonial is also non-ending, it simply isn't true. Tell me, are hills eternal, or aeonial?

The blessings of your father excel the blessings of my ancestors and the bounty of the eternal hills. May they rest on the head of Joseph, on the crown of the prince of his brothers. (Genesis 49:26 [HCSB])

The blessings of your father excel the blessings of my ancestors and the bounty of the aeonial* hills. May they rest on the head of Joseph, on the crown of the prince of his brothers. (Genesis 49:26 [MODIFIED-HCSB])*

I have a study on all this here Aeonial is Not Eternal, Aeons, and the Mistranslation of Forever and Ever | Wisdom of God .
Christig, If you will look at the scripture I provided, it blows your whole theory away. The "Aion" is used to describe God's existence and therefore cannot have a temporary meaning. Nor would believers have on-going life according to your claim. Your completely wrong on this, as I have studied the word "Aion" and "Aionios" and they can mean an age, a cycle of time or the eternal state, as with with God who lives "for Aion and Aion."

I've done the studies and there are plenty of scriptures that demonstrate all of the meanings above. You still think that God only lives for an age or cycle of time. Just that scripture along proves that what you are saying is incorrect.

The context is what will determine the meaning of whether it is an age or unending.
 
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Spokenpassage

Guest
#23
Romans 16:26 uses eternal for God, so I am guessing God is not actually "eternal" by the OP argument, but that he has been for a period of ages. Disturbing.
 

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
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#24
If there will be "no end" to the kingdom of Jesus Christ, and that those who will receive aeonial life will "never die", then "aeons of aeons" can certainly be implied to mean an endless continuum of aeons and aeons. But because of this implication, you cannot force "eternal" and "forever" unto this verse, because that is not exactly what was conveyed and written in these passages. There is no word for "eternal" and "forever" in the Greek and in the Hebrew.
So, your either saying that the saved in Christ have not obtained unending life or that they are going to cease to exist at some point. Which is it? How do you interpret the following scripture:

"Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”
 

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
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#25
Romans 16:26 uses eternal for God, so I am guessing God is not actually "eternal" by the OP argument, but that he has been for a period of ages. Disturbing.
Well said! That is exactly my point. Since the word "aion" is used, according to the OP, then God either exists only for an age or cycle of time or the word means that He has no beginning or ending. And we know the correct answer.
 
Apr 23, 2017
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#26
Christig, If you will look at the scripture I provided, it blows your whole theory away. The "Aion" is used to describe God's existence and therefore cannot have a temporary meaning. Nor would believers have on-going life according to your claim. Your completely wrong on this, as I have studied the word "Aion" and "Aionios" and they can mean an age, a cycle of time or the eternal state, as with with God who lives "for Aion and Aion."

I've done the studies and there are plenty of scriptures that demonstrate all of the meanings above. You still think that God only lives for an age or cycle of time. Just that scripture along proves that what you are saying is incorrect.

The context is what will determine the meaning of whether it is an age or unending.
Just because something is described as living for aeons does not mean that it will eventually cease to exist. Are you aware that even though Satan currently has aeonial life, at some point he will cease to exist when he is destroyed? Having aeonial life simply means living for aeons, but then you have to study other scriptures to try to understand until when. As such, here are the "until whens" of certain things described as aeonial,

Aeonial fire = UNTIL the new heaven and new earth.
Aeonial hills = UNTIL they are lower, since very mountain will be brought low, and every valley raised up, or until this heaven and earth ceases to exist.
Aeonial life = There is no UNTIL, because other scriptures declare that whoever receives aeonial life will NEVER die.
Aeonial kingdom of Jesus Christ = There is no UNTIL, because other scriptures declare that it will never end and never be destroyed.
Aeonial God = There is no UNTIL to his life, because God NEVER dies, for just as he existed before creation, he will always continue to exist, even if he decided to destroy everything he created.
 
Apr 23, 2017
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#27
Well said! That is exactly my point. Since the word "aion" is used, according to the OP, then God either exists only for an age or cycle of time or the word means that He has no beginning or ending. And we know the correct answer.
Obviously God is "eternal", but that is not the word the scriptures use, it is "aeonial", meaning he lives in the aeons of the aeons, hence aeonial God.
 
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Spokenpassage

Guest
#28
Well said! That is exactly my point. Since the word "aion" is used, according to the OP, then God either exists only for an age or cycle of time or the word means that He has no beginning or ending. And we know the correct answer.
Satan is attempting to infiltrate the original tongue in order to distort, forcing the church to become even more biblically literate in defending the apostolic doctrines handed down to us. I get tired of it, I am sure the early church fathers fighting the beasts of their day got tired of it...
 
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Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
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#29
Obviously God is "eternal", but that is not the word the scriptures use, it is "aeonial", meaning he lives in the aeons of the aeons, hence aeonial God.
What you are saying is not true. The word "aion" is used to describe God's existence in the scripture that I provided. The same word is used to describe the state of existence for those who believe in Jesus, i.e. that they will have unending life.

What are you trying to prove exactly? The word can mean a period of time which has an end or it can mean not having an ending. What is the problem?
 

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
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#30
at some point he will cease to exist when he is destroyed?
Satan and his angels and all who reject Christ, will remain conscious and aware in the lake of fire forever. There will be no end to that. Scripture never infers an end to eternal punishment in the context.

"Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”

Regarding the verse above, since the same word "aion" is being used, it would have to have the same meaning for both the righteous and unrighteous. If the righteous have unending life, then the unrighteous will have unending punishment. They have to mean the same thing.
 
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Marcelo

Senior Member
Feb 4, 2016
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#32
An aeon is more than a lifetime, it is around or more than a thousand years. The millennial kingdom of Jesus Christ is one aeon, so a thousand years.
Then, let's see if you like this definition:

[h=3]Strong's Greek: 165. αἰών (aión)[/h]
Definition: an age, a cycle (of time), especially of the present age as contrasted with the future age, and of one of a series of ages stretching to infinity.
 
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Spokenpassage

Guest
#33
What does that mean....In Christ there is neither JEW nor GENTILE, but rather a NEW Creation in Christ JESUS...the two have become ONE......
It is a fancy title to distinguish themselves
 

maxwel

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2013
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#36
Who is Christian Gaviria?
He looks like a muslim.
Christian Gaviria is apparently the OP,
who has a website devoted to Christian doctrine,
much of which seems to be heterodox.

I haven't looked closely enough to have an opinion on every little thing he says,
but the bulk of his doctrinal beliefs seem to be...
unique.
 
Feb 7, 2015
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#37
Christian Gaviria is apparently the OP,
who has a website devoted to Christian doctrine,
much of which seems to be heterodox.

I haven't looked closely enough to have an opinion on every little thing he says,
but the bulk of his doctrinal beliefs seem to be...
unique.
LOL Sounds like the way they complained about Jesus.
 
Apr 23, 2017
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#38
What does that mean....In Christ there is neither JEW nor GENTILE, but rather a NEW Creation in Christ JESUS...the two have become ONE......
It means I understand the Law has not been abolished, and that every command that is not shadow command, such as circumcision, festivals, sabbaths, new moons, must still be obeyed.
 

maxwel

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2013
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#39
LOL Sounds like the way they complained about Jesus.

I don't think it's logically tenable,
that every time one person disagrees with another person on doctrine,
you can pick out one party of the disagreement,
and just imply he's a pharisee.... just for disagreeing.


You were disagreeing with me just now... so... by virtue of thinking you're right....
I guess that makes you a pharisee?


This doesn't hold up to logic.

And it's silly.

And it's tiring.



And in your analogies, the people you agree with are always represented by Jesus,
and the people you disagree with are always represented by the evil pharisees.

Really, this is just silly and tiring.
 
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Laish

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2016
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#40
It means I understand the Law has not been abolished, and that every command that is not shadow command, such as circumcision, festivals, sabbaths, new moons, must still be obeyed.
Ok then. What is the significance of the coming Jesus Christ? We had all that before Jesus came .
Bill