Are Christians under any Law?
- Thread starter GOP
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
S
No, we are not under the condemnation of the law, but are under the grace of salvation found in Jesus Christ (Romans 7).
But...
If you are referring to the commandments of the law, if they are still binding, then yes, we are still bound to all of the commandments of God that hang on the two greatest.
But...
If you are referring to the commandments of the law, if they are still binding, then yes, we are still bound to all of the commandments of God that hang on the two greatest.
W
1 Cor 13
If I speak in the tongues of men or of angels, but do not have love,
I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal.
If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge,
and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but do not have love,
I am nothing.
If I give all I possess to the poor and give over my body to hardship that I may boast,but do not have love,
I gain nothing.
If I speak in the tongues of men or of angels, but do not have love,
I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal.
If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge,
and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but do not have love,
I am nothing.
If I give all I possess to the poor and give over my body to hardship that I may boast,but do not have love,
I gain nothing.
Paul who knew the law better then anyone had this to say about the purpose of the law.
The purpose of the law was :
1) To reveal our sinful state - Rom 3:20
2) To inflame sin - Rom 7:8
3) To minister death in us - Rom 7:10-11
4) To lead us to Christ - Gal 3:24
The law is good, holy and spiritual but we are in the flesh. Jesus fulfilled all the law! When we read the law we should be seeing Jesus in it. Jesus did not save us so that we could go back to the law.
The law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus is how we live now, and the law of liberty in Christ Jesus and the law of love, the law of faith ( the Law is NOT of faith - the just shall live by faith ). The law of Christ - Himself is how we live now.
But the purpose of the law was not for righteousness or salvation at all, it was to manifest sin in our lives, so that the purpose of grace which is in Jesus is to manifest salvation. Grace does not set aside the law, but completely satisfied it.
Christians are dead to the Law, been released from the Law and are NOT under the Law. It can't get any plainer than that. Romans 7:4-6; Rom. 6:14
People are free to do whatever they want in relation to the Law - it does not make one righteous nor is it for salvation.
If someone wants to observe a particular day , festivals or eat or not eat some kinds of foods..etc - then they are free to do so. These have no bearing on one's salvation or righteousness as all that is based on the finished work of Christ.
It's where people are saying "You must observe these things or do these things in the Law or you are not obeying God" - that's where the twisting comes in and it is a perversion of the gospel of the grace of Christ.
The purpose of the law was :
1) To reveal our sinful state - Rom 3:20
2) To inflame sin - Rom 7:8
3) To minister death in us - Rom 7:10-11
4) To lead us to Christ - Gal 3:24
The law is good, holy and spiritual but we are in the flesh. Jesus fulfilled all the law! When we read the law we should be seeing Jesus in it. Jesus did not save us so that we could go back to the law.
The law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus is how we live now, and the law of liberty in Christ Jesus and the law of love, the law of faith ( the Law is NOT of faith - the just shall live by faith ). The law of Christ - Himself is how we live now.
But the purpose of the law was not for righteousness or salvation at all, it was to manifest sin in our lives, so that the purpose of grace which is in Jesus is to manifest salvation. Grace does not set aside the law, but completely satisfied it.
Christians are dead to the Law, been released from the Law and are NOT under the Law. It can't get any plainer than that. Romans 7:4-6; Rom. 6:14
People are free to do whatever they want in relation to the Law - it does not make one righteous nor is it for salvation.
If someone wants to observe a particular day , festivals or eat or not eat some kinds of foods..etc - then they are free to do so. These have no bearing on one's salvation or righteousness as all that is based on the finished work of Christ.
It's where people are saying "You must observe these things or do these things in the Law or you are not obeying God" - that's where the twisting comes in and it is a perversion of the gospel of the grace of Christ.
Romans 13:
8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.
9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.
8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.
9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.
People often say to those that speak of the grace of God and that they are not under the law of Moses anymore that they believe they are without "laws" now and they can sin all they want. Which is complete foolishness.
We do have laws in the New Covenant. They are exciting laws that bring life and wholeness to us all - because these are all Christ Himself in us.
There is no greater revelation than to know Him and the Father and to plumb the depths of their love and grace towards us which Paul says in Eph. 2:7 - the Father will be doing for all the ages to come to us.
Ephesians 2:7 (NASB)
[SUP]7 [/SUP]so that in the ages to come He might show the surpassing riches of His grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus.
Jesus fulfilled the law. The law was a mere shadow of the real thing which was Jesus.
Read the law to see Jesus in it and to know that Jesus did that for us and His life in us now leads us in all things. Those who are led by the Spirit of God are the sons of God.
We now live by:
1) The law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus. ( Romans 8:2 )
2) The law of love ( Romans 13:10 James 2:8 )
3) The law of faith ( Romans 3:27 and the law of Moses is NOT of faith - Gal. 3:12 )
4) The law of liberty ( James 1:25 )
5) The law of Christ - which is Christ Himself in us. ( Gal. 6:2 )
We can trust the Holy Spirit in us to lead us in all affairs of life. We don't go back to the law of Moses that were a shadow of the real thing which is Christ in us.. Jesus is more then enough.
Yes...we glory in the laws that we have in the New Covenant because they are all Christ Himself living in and through us. ( Gal.2:20 and Col. 3:3 )
Get this wrong and we create a religion which really nullifies the grace of God from operating in our lives like it was meant to.
Galatians 5:22-23 (NASB)
[SUP]22 [/SUP] But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,
[SUP]23 [/SUP] gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law.
We do have laws in the New Covenant. They are exciting laws that bring life and wholeness to us all - because these are all Christ Himself in us.
There is no greater revelation than to know Him and the Father and to plumb the depths of their love and grace towards us which Paul says in Eph. 2:7 - the Father will be doing for all the ages to come to us.
Ephesians 2:7 (NASB)
[SUP]7 [/SUP]so that in the ages to come He might show the surpassing riches of His grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus.
Jesus fulfilled the law. The law was a mere shadow of the real thing which was Jesus.
Read the law to see Jesus in it and to know that Jesus did that for us and His life in us now leads us in all things. Those who are led by the Spirit of God are the sons of God.
We now live by:
1) The law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus. ( Romans 8:2 )
2) The law of love ( Romans 13:10 James 2:8 )
3) The law of faith ( Romans 3:27 and the law of Moses is NOT of faith - Gal. 3:12 )
4) The law of liberty ( James 1:25 )
5) The law of Christ - which is Christ Himself in us. ( Gal. 6:2 )
We can trust the Holy Spirit in us to lead us in all affairs of life. We don't go back to the law of Moses that were a shadow of the real thing which is Christ in us.. Jesus is more then enough.
Yes...we glory in the laws that we have in the New Covenant because they are all Christ Himself living in and through us. ( Gal.2:20 and Col. 3:3 )
Get this wrong and we create a religion which really nullifies the grace of God from operating in our lives like it was meant to.
Galatians 5:22-23 (NASB)
[SUP]22 [/SUP] But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,
[SUP]23 [/SUP] gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law.
For though I am free from all men, I have made myself a slave to all, so that I may win more. To the Jews I became as a Jew, so that I might win Jews; to those who are under the Law, as under the Law though not being myself under the Law, so that I might win those who are under the Law; to those who are without law, as without law, though not being without the law of God but under the law of Christ, so that I might win those who are without law.
(1 Corinthians 9:19-21)
we see here that "the Law" - an obvious reference to Torah - is definitively separate from what Paul calls "the law of Christ"
"the law of Christ" as Paul uses it it here, contains such freedom to be both "as without law" ((to those who are without law)) or alternatively to live "as under the law" while in truth not being either "lawless" nor being "under the Law" - again, a reference specifically to Torah, i.e. the law of Moses, the covenant that the nation Israel made at Sinai.
a third law is also spoke of here: "the law of God" - and according to how it is used here, it is not "the Law" i.e. Torah, because Paul says he is not under Torah, but affirms that he is not without "the law of God" - because being "under the law of Christ" places him within "the law of God."
this passage here then contains another proof of Christ's deity - equivalency between His law and the law of God indicates equivalency in person - and it makes a clear distinction between being under the Mosaic covenant law and what the Spirit writing through Paul defines as existing "with the law of God"
Hebrew-roots people will rebut that "the Law" being referenced in this passage is tradition added to Torah, not Torah. but that is a very weak argument. Paul certainly knows the Greek word for "tradition" from "law" and is very well acquainted with what is the law and what are the non-binding recommendations of rabbis. there is really no doubt that he is referring to Torah here, not mishnah, not gemara.
[HR][/HR][HR][/HR]
we are not lawless, and not under law.
no law has jurisdiction over a dead man - and that is who we are, in Christ: the dead made alive
We're under grace 
Romans 10:3-4: "For they (Israel) being ignorant of God’s righteousness, and seeking to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted to the righteousness of God. For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes"
Galatians 2:16: "...knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but by faith in Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, that we might be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law; for by the works of the law no flesh shall be justified"
Romans 6:15-18: "What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? Certainly not! Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness? But God be thanked that though you were slaves of sin, yet you obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine to which you were delivered. And having been set free from sin, you became slaves of righteousness"
Galatians 3:1-13: "O foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you that you should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed among you as crucified? This only I want to learn from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? Are you so foolish? Having begun in the Spirit, are you now being made perfect by the flesh? Have you suffered so many things in vain—if indeed it was in vain? Therefore He who supplies the Spirit to you and works miracles among you, does He do it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?— just as Abraham “believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.” Therefore know that only those who are of faith are sons of Abraham. And the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel to Abraham beforehand, saying, “In you all the nations shall be blessed.” So then those who are of faith are blessed with believing Abraham.
For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse; for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who does not continue in all things which are written in the book of the law, to do them.” But that no one is justified by the law in the sight of God is evident, for “the just shall live by faith.” Yet the law is not of faith, but “the man who does them shall live by them.” Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us (for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree”, that the blessing of Abraham might come upon the Gentiles in Christ Jesus, that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith"
Romans 10:3-4: "For they (Israel) being ignorant of God’s righteousness, and seeking to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted to the righteousness of God. For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes"
Galatians 2:16: "...knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but by faith in Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, that we might be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law; for by the works of the law no flesh shall be justified"
Romans 6:15-18: "What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? Certainly not! Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness? But God be thanked that though you were slaves of sin, yet you obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine to which you were delivered. And having been set free from sin, you became slaves of righteousness"
Galatians 3:1-13: "O foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you that you should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed among you as crucified? This only I want to learn from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? Are you so foolish? Having begun in the Spirit, are you now being made perfect by the flesh? Have you suffered so many things in vain—if indeed it was in vain? Therefore He who supplies the Spirit to you and works miracles among you, does He do it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?— just as Abraham “believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.” Therefore know that only those who are of faith are sons of Abraham. And the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel to Abraham beforehand, saying, “In you all the nations shall be blessed.” So then those who are of faith are blessed with believing Abraham.
For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse; for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who does not continue in all things which are written in the book of the law, to do them.” But that no one is justified by the law in the sight of God is evident, for “the just shall live by faith.” Yet the law is not of faith, but “the man who does them shall live by them.” Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us (for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree”, that the blessing of Abraham might come upon the Gentiles in Christ Jesus, that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith"
Romans 8:1-4
1 [FONT=Helvetica Neue, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.[/FONT]
[FONT="]2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.[/FONT]
[FONT="]3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:[/FONT]
[FONT="]4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
What is the law of sin and death referred to in verse 2?
2 Corinthians 3:7-9
[/FONT]
[FONT="]7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:[/FONT]
[FONT="]8 How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?[/FONT]
[FONT="]9 For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.[/FONT]
1 [FONT=Helvetica Neue, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.[/FONT]
[FONT="]2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.[/FONT]
[FONT="]3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:[/FONT]
[FONT="]4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
What is the law of sin and death referred to in verse 2?
2 Corinthians 3:7-9
[/FONT]
[FONT="]7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:[/FONT]
[FONT="]8 How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?[/FONT]
[FONT="]9 For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.[/FONT]