Son's of God Genesis 6:1-8

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CS1

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May 23, 2012
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what scripture refers to mankind as sons of the Most High?

Gen 6 sons of God and the context of the whole chapter
remember the fall of man was was relative new with in the historical narrative. man was far from God but not as far God saw the sons of God doing wickedly who were the sons of God in gen 6? verses 1 to 7 say it was man no where is angels , messengers, angelic host mentioned anywhere in the context of gen 6 no where. and because words in Hebrew have a systemic range of meaning
example :

in the Hebrew sons of God

God could mean :



  1. [*=left]rulers, judges

    [*=left]divine ones

    [*=left]angels

    [*=left]gods

    however the word used has to fix the context . Angel does not. God is the Context of Elohim in gen 6

    sons :
    son, male child


    1. [*=left]grandson

      [*=left]children (pl. - male and female)

      [*=left]youth, young men (pl.)

      [*=left]young (of animals)

      [*=left]sons (as characterisation, i.e. sons of injustice [for un- righteous men] or sons of God [for angels]

      [*=left]people (of a nation) (pl.)

      no where is angel in the word
 
J

jaybird88

Guest
Gen 6 sons of God and the context of the whole chapter
remember the fall of man was was relative new with in the historical narrative. man was far from God but not as far God saw the sons of God doing wickedly who were the sons of God in gen 6? verses 1 to 7 say it was man no where is angels , messengers, angelic host mentioned anywhere in the context of gen 6 no where. and because words in Hebrew have a systemic range of meaning
example :

in the Hebrew sons of God

God could mean :



  1. [*=left]rulers, judges
    [*=left]divine ones
    [*=left]angels
    [*=left]gods

    however the word used has to fix the context . Angel does not. God is the Context of Elohim in gen 6

    sons :
    son, male child

    1. [*=left]grandson
      [*=left]children (pl. - male and female)
      [*=left]youth, young men (pl.)
      [*=left]young (of animals)
      [*=left]sons (as characterisation, i.e. sons of injustice [for un- righteous men] or sons of God [for angels]
      [*=left]people (of a nation) (pl.)

      no where is angel in the word
ok so where is the scripture that uses the "son of Most High" term and directly links it to mankind like the Job passages that directly link the term to angels/heavenly beings and there is no dispute between man and angels in the job passages.
 

CS1

Well-known member
May 23, 2012
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ok so where is the scripture that uses the "son of Most High" term and directly links it to mankind like the Job passages that directly link the term to angels/heavenly beings and there is no dispute between man and angels in the job passages.
I do not see any in the old testament term "son of the Most High " Mark 5:7 son of the most High" = Jesus.

Job 1:16 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them.

the Hebrew translate as BEN =
[FONT=arial, helvetica, sans serif]sons (as characterisation, i.e. sons of injustice [for un- righteous men] or sons of God [/FONT][for angels]

[FONT=arial, helvetica, sans serif] the context of Job 1:16 would be angels because who is God speaking to? the devil and his spiritual beings . to use the translation of man as in gen 6 would not fix with the context.[/FONT]
 
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valiant

Senior Member
Mar 22, 2015
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You need to get things right if you're going to make a stand....Elohim are not supernatural beings Elohim is A supernatural being...
Elohim is used of gods and spirits. It is the plural of Eloah.

Elohim is one of the names of God. Elohim (Our God Is All-Powerful) Elohim covers Father Son and Holy Spirit All three at once.
Elohim when used of God is a plural of majesty. It is then with a singular verb. But more generally it means gods, spirits, angels and is used with a plural verb.

We must agree to get things right!!
well get it right LOL
 

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
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Gen 6 sons of God and the context of the whole chapter
remember the fall of man was was relative new with in the historical narrative. man was far from God but not as far God saw the sons of God doing wickedly who were the sons of God in gen 6? verses 1 to 7 say it was man no where is angels , messengers, angelic host mentioned anywhere in the context of gen 6 no where. and because words in Hebrew have a systemic range of meaning
example :

in the Hebrew sons of God

God could mean :

  1. [*=left]rulers, judges

    [*=left]divine ones

    [*=left]angels

    [*=left]gods

    however the word used has to fix the context . Angel does not. God is the Context of Elohim in gen 6

    sons :
    son, male child


    1. [*=left]grandson

      [*=left]children (pl. - male and female)

      [*=left]youth, young men (pl.)

      [*=left]young (of animals)

      [*=left]sons (as characterisation, i.e. sons of injustice [for un- righteous men] or sons of God [for angels]

      [*=left]people (of a nation) (pl.)

      no where is angel in the word


Good day CSI,

See post #419. Regardless of your examples above, there is a grammatical distinction being made between mankind and the sons of God. The scripture infers that the sons of God are not mankind.

Genesis 6:1
"
When human beings began to increase in number on the earth and daughters were born to them, the sons of God saw that the daughters of humans were beautiful, and they married any of them they chose"

Genesis 6:4
"
The Nephilim were on the earth in those days—and also afterward—when the sons of God went to the daughters of humans and had children by them. They were the heroes of old, men of renown."

If "the sons of God" were also humans, the scripture would not be stated as it is, as it would be grammatically improper. It shows a distinction between the two. Below is Enoch's description of Genesis 6:1

"It happened after the sons of men had multiplied in those days, that daughters were born to them, elegant and beautiful And when the angels, the sons of heaven, beheld them, they became enamored of them, saying to each other: Come, let us select for ourselves wives from the progeny of men, and let us beget children.

As I said before, Jude quotes from the prophesies of Enoch and therefore validates his prophecies as being authentic. If fact when I read the prophecies of Enoch, rendered as Ethiopic Enoch, it reads like the word of God. The Spirit confirms the validity of these writing. In addition, Enoch used to be apart of the scriptures up to the 3rd century and gives much detail to the extent of corruption that these angels, the watchers of heaven as they were called, how they had corrupted the earth, because taking wives from the progeny of men was not all that these angels had committed. For they taught mankind how to make swords, knives, shields, breastplates, the use of paints and dyes, the beautifying of the eyebrows, sorcery, the dividing of roots, signs, astronomy, the motion of the moon, etc., etc.

Moreover, the giants that resulted from the angels, the offspring of the watchers, were not just 20ft giants as some have suggested, but were 300 cubits tall according to the Enoch. And because they were out of scale to mankind, they devoured all which the labor men produced; until it became impossible to feed them.

It was because of what the angels, the sons of heaven had done and their corruption of mankind, that was the major cause of the flood. Noah and the flood is even mentioned in the prophecies of Enoch, being referred to as "the son of Lamech."

Regarding these sons of God, the angels, I believe that 2 Peter 2:4 and Jude 6 are both referring to those angels who took wives from the progeny of mankind. And because they took wives and corrupted mankind with their teachings, they were those angels that were cast down to Tartartus into chains of darkness until the great white throne judgment.
 
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stonesoffire

Poetic Member
Nov 24, 2013
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I do not see any in the old testament term "son of the Most High " Mark 5:7 son of the most High" = Jesus.

Job 1:16 Now there was a day when the sonsofGod came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them.

the Hebrew translate as BEN =
sons (as characterisation, i.e. sons of injustice [for un- righteous men] or sons of God [for angels]

the context of Job 1:16 would be angels because who is God speaking to? the devil and his spiritual beings . to use the translation of man as in gen 6 would not fix with the context.
Hi CS1

Some say that Job was of the first creation. I tend to agree and see the sons of God as human beings but "light" beings.

No proof though. Lots of mysteries...
 

CS1

Well-known member
May 23, 2012
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Good day CSI,

See post #419. Regardless of your examples above, there is a grammatical distinction being made between mankind and the sons of God. The scripture infers that the sons of God are not mankind.

Genesis 6:1
"
When human beings began to increase in number on the earth and daughters were born to them, the sons of God saw that the daughters of humans were beautiful, and they married any of them they chose"

Genesis 6:4
"
The Nephilim were on the earth in those days—and also afterward—when the sons of God went to the daughters of humans and had children by them. They were the heroes of old, men of renown."

If "the sons of God" were also humans, the scripture would not be stated as it is, as it would be grammatically improper. It shows a distinction between the two. Below is Enoch's description of Genesis 6:1

"It happened after the sons of men had multiplied in those days, that daughters were born to them, elegant and beautiful And when the angels, the sons of heaven, beheld them, they became enamored of them, saying to each other: Come, let us select for ourselves wives from the progeny of men, and let us beget children.

As I said before, Jude quotes from the prophesies of Enoch and therefore validates his prophecies as being authentic. If fact when I read the prophecies of Enoch, rendered as Ethiopic Enoch, it reads like the word of God. The Spirit confirms the validity of these writing. In addition, Enoch used to be apart of the scriptures up to the 3rd century and gives much detail to the extent of corruption that these angels, the watchers of heaven as they were called, how they had corrupted the earth. Because taking wives from the progeny of men was not all that these angels had committed. For they taught mankind how to make swords, knives, shields, breastplates, the use of paints and dyes, the beautifying of the eyebrows, sorcery, the dividing of roots, signs, astronomy, the motion of the moon, etc., etc.

Moreover, the giants that resulted from the angels, the offspring of the watchers, were not just 20ft giants as some have suggested, but were 300 cubits tall according to the Enoch. And because they were out of scale to mankind, they devoured all which the labor men produced; until it became impossible to feed them.

It was because of what the angels, the sons of heaven had done and their corruption of mankind, that was the major cause of the flood. Noah and the flood is even mentioned in the prophecies of Enoch, being referred to as "the son of Lamech."

Regarding these sons of God, the angels, I believe that 2 Peter 2:4 and Jude 6 are both referring to those angels who took wives from the progeny of mankind. And because they took wives and corrupted mankind with their teachings, they were those angels that were cast down to Tartartus into chains of darkness until the great white throne judgment.

No sir ,
the word " Nephilim " is speaking of a great race of people aka Mankind . The context of the whole chapter of Gen 6 is not spiritual beings but man wickedness.
your context is not what gen 6 is saying .

2 pet 2:4 has nothing to do with gen 6. 2 pet chapter two is speaking about the sin of man who God will deal with just as he did with angels who sinned and are in a pit and held. That is what it says . big stretch.

Jude verse 6 says nothing about
Nephilim .

there is not contextual meaning for [FONT=&quot] Nephilim and even if there was the word [/FONT][FONT=&quot] Nephilim in gen 6 = [/FONT]bully or tyrant:—giant. in context to a people of war or mighty men . that is it.
 

CS1

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May 23, 2012
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Hi CS1

Some say that Job was of the first creation. I tend to agree and see the sons of God as human beings but "light" beings.

No proof though. Lots of mysteries...
you point is a good one but as you said there is no proof only assumptions and presuppositions. a good lesson to learn is where the Bible is silent on the topic we cannot read into the text what is not there.
 

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
Nov 24, 2013
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you point is a good one but as you said there is no proof only assumptions and presuppositions. a good lesson to learn is where the Bible is silent on the topic we cannot read into the text what is not there.
If it's true...I would say there is proof in the scriptures. So far they haven't left me down. I didn't say "yet"...should have. :eek:
 

CS1

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May 23, 2012
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If it's true...I would say there is proof in the scriptures. So far they haven't left me down. I didn't say "yet"...should have. :eek:
all I can say is everything in relation to the word "[FONT=arial, helvetica, sans serif] [/FONT][FONT=arial, helvetica, sans serif] Nephilim" comes from gen 6:4 and it is from there that other Scriptures like Job, 2pet and Jude are used to prove it.

Only one problem with that
they are not parallel verses to each other. the context cannot be changed to make it fix. Gen 6 context is sinful man, if one wants to use the New Testament to support

The "sons of God" well in every case where " sons of God:" are used in the New Testament
is in context to man. as a Normative which is more consistent with sons of God in Gen 6
[/FONT]
 
J

jaybird88

Guest
I do not see any in the old testament term "son of the Most High " Mark 5:7 son of the most High" = Jesus.

son of the Most High would be my way of saying the same thing
sons of God
. my way of trying to respect the name.

also i dont think sons of the Most High are always angels i think they are heavenly beings. of the Most High - of heaven, of man - of this world. pretty sure this is how they understood it in the days of Jesus and the 12 and IMO i think they were right.

Job 1:16 Now there was a day when the sonsofGod came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them.

the Hebrew translate as BEN =
sons (as characterisation, i.e. sons of injustice [for un- righteous men] or sons of God [for angels]

the context of Job 1:16 would be angels because who is God speaking to? the devil and his spiritual beings . to use the translation of man as in gen 6 would not fix with the context.
the Job passages are beings of the heavens, do you know of a passage that uses this term referring to men? the only ones i know are in the NT and are referring to believers and becoming a new creation, equal to angels that do not die.
 

CS1

Well-known member
May 23, 2012
12,354
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I do not see any in the old testament term "son of the Most High " Mark 5:7 son of the most High" = Jesus.

son of the Most High would be my way of saying the same thing . my way of trying to respect the name.

also i dont think sons of the Most High are always angels i think they are heavenly beings. of the Most High - of heaven, of man - of this world. pretty sure this is how they understood it in the days of Jesus and the 12 and IMO i think they were right.



the Job passages are beings of the heavens, do you know of a passage that uses this term referring to men? the only ones i know are in the NT and are referring to believers and becoming a new creation, equal to angels that do not die.



​I do not see where it says we are equal with angels please provide the scripture . the new creation is in context to free from the sinful nature and now made alive in Christ.
 
J

jaybird88

Guest
[/U][/COLOR]

​I do not see where it says we are equal with angels please provide the scripture . the new creation is in context to free from the sinful nature and now made alive in Christ.
Luke 20 34-36

[SUP]34 [/SUP]And Jesus said to them, “The sons of this age marry and are given in marriage, [SUP]35 [/SUP]but those who are considered worthy to attain to that age and to the resurrection from the dead neither marry nor are given in marriage, [SUP]36 [/SUP]for they cannot die anymore, because they are equal to angels and are sons of God, being sons of the resurrection.
 

CS1

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May 23, 2012
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Luke 20 34-36

[SUP]34 [/SUP]And Jesus said to them, “The sons of this age marry and are given in marriage, [SUP]35 [/SUP]but those who are considered worthy to attain to that age and to the resurrection from the dead neither marry nor are given in marriage, [SUP]36 [/SUP]for they cannot die anymore, because they are equal to angels and are sons of God, being sons of the resurrection.
you have to read back further to get the context of 34-36 it make no sense with only two verses.

start in Luke 20:27 and read to verse 38
the context is marriage and who will the wife be in heaven
Jesus said
:35 But they which shall be accounted worthy to obtain that world, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry, nor are given in marriage:

36 :
Neither can they die any more: for they are equal unto the angels; and are the children of God, being the children of the resurrection.

this is speaking of those who have died
so it can't be used in ref to The Nelphim why? were the people who slept with angels in gen 6 dead ? no so they are not in context
 
May 13, 2017
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Elohim is used of gods and spirits. It is the plural of Eloah.



Elohim when used of God is a plural of majesty. It is then with a singular verb. But more generally it means gods, spirits, angels and is used with a plural verb.



well get it right LOL
Well I don't know what your sources are but there is NO usage in the Hebrew where elohim applied to any but the Father Son and Holy Spirit...Making it a plural word. The word is not used in any Semitic language other than Hebrew...And only applies to the Godhead. I'm afraid your sources are the ones I've been finding to see if there is a support for your argument..Sources that study spirit phenomena..Ghosts and other nasties.
Then you write what I wrote and call me wrong.
Elohim is one of the names of God. Elohim (Our God Is All-Powerful) Elohim covers Father Son and Holy Spirit All three at once. Elohim when used of God is a plural of majesty. It is then with a singular verb. But more generally it means gods, spirits, angels and is used with a plural verb.
When I say it, I'm wrong. When you say it, you're right. Sounds like Democrat thinking to me.

You really NEED to consider your sources..because they are dead wrong
 

Johnny_B

Senior Member
Mar 18, 2017
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It's nice to see someone understands the contextual meaning of the Genesis 6 story. I also noticed that some are ones that promote the fallen angels theory, that they avoided doing contextual exegete on the Scriptures in question, jumped back in when they seen new meat. Which show me that they know it can not be done and they were avoiding it, because they know the out come and they would rather hold their beliefs over what the Bible is saying.

The other thing I learned is that even though Missler is off in his interpretation of these Scriptures, he did say something that is true. (If you can't understand the meaning of these Scriptures you will have a had time understanding the meaning the rest of the Scriptures, he included prophecy as well, why, I don't know because saying Scriptures coves it). It is so simple to follow the context to understand what is happening, but the natural mind wants to make the Bible say what it is not saying. Some do it to have a sense that they have found all this special information, that is forbidden, so I know the true meaning that other men are trying to hide, but i found it
and I'll teach it to you and if you don't understand, it's because you will not open your mind to this special understanding of the Bible.
 
J

jaybird88

Guest
you have to read back further to get the context of 34-36 it make no sense with only two verses.
start in Luke 20:27 and read to verse 38
the context is marriage and who will the wife be in heaven
Jesus said
:35 But they which shall be accounted worthy to obtain that world, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry, nor are given in marriage:

36 :
Neither can they die any more: for they are equal unto the angels; and are the children of God, being the children of the resurrection.
i have a fair understanding of the teaching. i didnt realize you needed the entire passage. sorry about that

i never thought it was referring to the nephilim. i thought we were speaking of sons of the Most High and when they have been referred to as men.

[SUP]36 [/SUP]for they cannot die anymore, because they are equal to angels

when Jesus refers to "they" who is He talking about?

this is speaking of those who have died
so it can't be used in ref to The Nelphim why? were the people who slept with angels in gen 6 dead ? no so they are not in context
dead meaning no longer exist? i dont think it all ends there. i see it more as a death and transformation, transforming to a son of the Most High, just like those sons of the Most High in Gen 6 before they turned, just like Adam before he was expelled from the garden, equal to angels, no death.
 

CS1

Well-known member
May 23, 2012
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It's nice to see someone understands the contextual meaning of the Genesis 6 story. I also noticed that some are ones that promote the fallen angels theory, that they avoided doing contextual exegete on the Scriptures in question, jumped back in when they seen new meat. Which show me that they know it can not be done and they were avoiding it, because they know the out come and they would rather hold their beliefs over what the Bible is saying.

The other thing I learned is that even though Missler is off in his interpretation of these Scriptures, he did say something that is true. (If you can't understand the meaning of these Scriptures you will have a had time understanding the meaning the rest of the Scriptures, he included prophecy as well, why, I don't know because saying Scriptures coves it). It is so simple to follow the context to understand what is happening, but the natural mind wants to make the Bible say what it is not saying. Some do it to have a sense that they have found all this special information, that is forbidden, so I know the true meaning that other men are trying to hide, but i found it
and I'll teach it to you and if you don't understand, it's because you will not open your mind to this special understanding of the Bible.
the Holy Spirit help us and our attitude helps or hurts our learning . this is why so many struggle with REV and the Major Prophets and minor ones too. we never arrive when one thinks they have then then stop growing and learning .

Pride causes that . Humbleness keeps us learning and knowing that there is to much to God that we will never know on this side
 
J

jaybird88

Guest
Well I don't know what your sources are but there is NO usage in the Hebrew where elohim applied to any but the Father Son and Holy Spirit...Making it a plural word. The word is not used in any Semitic language other than Hebrew...And only applies to the Godhead. I'm afraid your sources are the ones I've been finding to see if there is a support for your argument..Sources that study spirit phenomena..Ghosts and other nasties.


You really NEED to consider your sources..because they are dead wrong
i dont think he is wrong on this

Psalm 82:6
I said, “You are gods, sons of the Most High, all of you;

word in question "gods"
430. elohim -
Definition
God, god
NASB Translation
divine (1), divine being (1), exceedingly (1), God (2326), god (45), God's (14), goddess (2), godly (1), gods (204), great (2), judges (3), mighty (2), rulers (1), shrine* (1).

Genesis 17:1
When Abram was ninety-nine years old the LORD appeared to Abram and said to him, “I am God Almighty; walk before me, and be blameless,

Almighty when used with elohim is used only for the Most High.
 

CS1

Well-known member
May 23, 2012
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i have a fair understanding of the teaching. i didnt realize you needed the entire passage. sorry about that

i never thought it was referring to the nephilim. i thought we were speaking of sons of the Most High and when they have been referred to as men.

[SUP]36 [/SUP]for they cannot die anymore, because they are equal to angels

when Jesus refers to "they" who is He talking about?



dead meaning no longer exist? i dont think it all ends there. i see it more as a death and transformation, transforming to a son of the Most High, just like those sons of the Most High in Gen 6 before they turned, just like Adam before he was expelled from the garden, equal to angels, no death.
equal with angels is not the same as angels

first off God was very Clear HE was making man and women after there own Kind .
Gen 1:21

And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good.

24
And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind (species):: and it was so.



Gen 2:18 And the LORD God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet (succour) for him.

GOd made for Adam what was for Adam. And in context to the Creation of God everything was made after it's Kind
meaning
succour.