It does not contradict anything..Jesus died His body died. While He was dead He went to hell and did stuff. He preached to the saints, took the keys from Satan, and set the saints in hell free and led them out of there. To be born again you have to be born of the flesh AND of the Spirit..Jesus spirit WAS NOT dead.
WHO was the first born again man???
- Thread starter Rockrz
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Hello Danadii 
I see where Jesus said one must be born again of water and of the Spirit (John 3:5), but not where anyone says we must be born again of flesh. The flesh counts for nothing...
I see where Jesus said one must be born again of water and of the Spirit (John 3:5), but not where anyone says we must be born again of flesh. The flesh counts for nothing... 
That's not what God's Word says...
According to God's definition of spiritual death (what He said would happen in the garden if they ate of that tree), spiritual death is to be separated from God which is what Jesus did FOR US so we could get saved an not have to be separated from God.
We know God had forsaken Jesus based on what Jesus said in Matthew 27:46..."My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?"
You don't reckon Jesus lied about this, do ya???
According to God's definition of spiritual death (what He said would happen in the garden if they ate of that tree), spiritual death is to be separated from God which is what Jesus did FOR US so we could get saved an not have to be separated from God.
We know God had forsaken Jesus based on what Jesus said in Matthew 27:46..."My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?"
You don't reckon Jesus lied about this, do ya???
There's a reason why Jesus renamed Simon Peter...he's the first to recognize that Jesus is Son of God...the one who is called the "firstling" in the OT...the sanctified first to come through a spiritual birth or spiritual womb.
~Exo 13:13 And everyH3605 firstlingH6363 of an assH2543 thou shalt redeemH6299 with a lamb;H7716 and ifH518 thou wilt notH3808 redeemH6299 it, then thou shalt break his neck:H6202 and allH3605 the firstbornH1060 of manH120 among thy childrenH1121 shalt thou redeem.H6299
~
H6363
[FONT=Arial (Arabic)][FONT=Arial (Arabic)][FONT=Arial (Arabic)]פִּטְרָה פֶּטֶר
[/FONT]peṭer piṭrâh
peh'-ter, pit-raw'
From H6362; a fissure, that is, (concretely) firstling (as opening the matrix): - firstling, openeth, such as open.
Total KJV occurrences: 12
Strongs #6363: AHLB#: 2604 (e1)
{ see also: AHLB#: 2604 (N) }
2604) ( PThR)ac: Burst co: ? ab: ?: A breaking or bursting open or out. [from: - breaking]
V) ( P-ThR) - Burst: [freq. 8] (vf: Paal, Hiphil) |kjv: open, slip, free, out| {str: 6358, 6362}
Nm) ( P-ThR) - Bursting: [freq. 11] |kjv: open, firstling| {str: 6363}
bm) ( P-ThYR) - Bursting: [freq. 1] |kjv: free| {str: 6359}
ef1) ( PYTh-RH) - Bursting: [freq. 1] |kjv: open| {str: 6363}
[/FONT][/FONT]
~Exo 13:13 And everyH3605 firstlingH6363 of an assH2543 thou shalt redeemH6299 with a lamb;H7716 and ifH518 thou wilt notH3808 redeemH6299 it, then thou shalt break his neck:H6202 and allH3605 the firstbornH1060 of manH120 among thy childrenH1121 shalt thou redeem.H6299
~
H6363
[FONT=Arial (Arabic)][FONT=Arial (Arabic)][FONT=Arial (Arabic)]פִּטְרָה פֶּטֶר
[/FONT]peṭer piṭrâh
peh'-ter, pit-raw'
From H6362; a fissure, that is, (concretely) firstling (as opening the matrix): - firstling, openeth, such as open.
Total KJV occurrences: 12
Strongs #6363: AHLB#: 2604 (e1)
{ see also: AHLB#: 2604 (N) }
2604) ( PThR)ac: Burst co: ? ab: ?: A breaking or bursting open or out. [from: - breaking]
V) ( P-ThR) - Burst: [freq. 8] (vf: Paal, Hiphil) |kjv: open, slip, free, out| {str: 6358, 6362}
Nm) ( P-ThR) - Bursting: [freq. 11] |kjv: open, firstling| {str: 6363}
bm) ( P-ThYR) - Bursting: [freq. 1] |kjv: free| {str: 6359}
ef1) ( PYTh-RH) - Bursting: [freq. 1] |kjv: open| {str: 6363}
[/FONT][/FONT]
interesting post ,
would like to know what you all think of Gospel of John 20:22 ?
"[FONT=Helvetica Neue, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost:"[/FONT]
[FONT=Helvetica Neue, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]is it possible the first ones to be born again was " Them" ? [/FONT][FONT="][/FONT]
would like to know what you all think of Gospel of John 20:22 ?
"[FONT=Helvetica Neue, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost:"[/FONT]
[FONT=Helvetica Neue, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]is it possible the first ones to be born again was " Them" ? [/FONT][FONT="][/FONT]
I mean, how in the world do people conflate "firstborn" with "born again?" and come up with this nonsense?
"Oh, that word "firstborn" has the word "born" in it, so I'll just add "again" to it because the verse is talking about Jesus - so, voila! "firstborn" now means "born again!!! Jesus was born again! See?"
Just wow. No wonder even apostate Rome lamented people getting the Scriptures in their own hands.
lolzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
"Oh, that word "firstborn" has the word "born" in it, so I'll just add "again" to it because the verse is talking about Jesus - so, voila! "firstborn" now means "born again!!! Jesus was born again! See?"
Just wow. No wonder even apostate Rome lamented people getting the Scriptures in their own hands.
lolzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
No, nobody could possibly have been born again from death to life until after Jesus was raised from the dead.
I already posted scripture showing that.
Those folks had the Holy Spirit upon them for ministry like some in the Old Testament did... but nobody could possibly have been born again from death to life until after Jesus was raised from the dead.
I already posted scripture showing that.
Under the OT the people that were anointed of God had the Holy Spirit resting upon them, but not inside them like we think of now.
One has to be born again before the Holy Spirit can be on the inside... and it's actually the Holy Spirit that causes on to be born again from death to live when He is invited in. It's the operation of the Holy Ghost!
And, since ALL things are possible with God (except for lying), Jesus was separated from God (spiritual death) for us, because of OUR sin.
The wages of sin is death (separation from God) which was what God told Adam would happen if he ate of that tree. So, we see in Matthew 27:46 that God did literally forsake or turn away from Jesus... either that, or Jesus lied which I know is not the case although some claim He could not have died spiritually meaning that consider Jesus to have lied about it.
Those that have been taught religion rather than what God's Word actually says seem to hate this and they start manifesting devils and stuff, slobbering at the mouth and claiming heresy as they reject God's Word on the subject... simply because satan is influencing them to act out his own hatred for the defeat Jesus handed Him that allows sinful people to be able to call upon the Name of Jesus and become born again from death to life, thus escaping satan's dominion.
Colossians 1:18
And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.
If Jesus only died physically, then why wasn’t Lazarus (John 11:38-44) identified as being the first born from physical death? What about the Widow's son that Elijah raised from the dead? (1 Kings 17:17-24). Clearly Jesus was not the first person to die physically and be raised from the dead, so Colossians 1:18 couldn’t just be referring to physical death.
Colossians 1:18 could not be referring to just physical death because other people had died before Jesus did and were brought back to life... Elisha resurrected the son of the Shunammite woman (2 Kings 4:35), Jesus resurrects the widow's son at Nain (Luke 7:13-15), Jesus raises Jairus' daughter from the dead (Matthew 9:25), Jesus raises Lazarus from the dead (John 11:43-44).
If Jesus only died physically then either Colossians 1:18 is a lie... or all these other scriptures references are lies... which is it? Does God's Word contradict itself, or does it not? Or... do other scriptures references point to Jesus suffering something more than just physical death???
Isaiah 53:8
By oppression and judgment He was taken away; and as for His generation, who considered
that He was cut off out of the land of the living, stricken for the transgression of My people
“Cut off out of the land of the living” is being separated from Life (God) and is not being in Abraham's bosom which was the temporary location of Paradise which was necessary for the OT saints to be held there until the new birth became available. We know all OT saints went to Abraham's bosom when they died and not into the presence of God because in John 1:18 Jesus said no man had seen God.
Denying what scripture says on this subject makes people not understand how far Jesus went to purchase salvation for us.
I already posted scripture showing that.
Those folks had the Holy Spirit upon them for ministry like some in the Old Testament did... but nobody could possibly have been born again from death to life until after Jesus was raised from the dead.
I already posted scripture showing that.
Under the OT the people that were anointed of God had the Holy Spirit resting upon them, but not inside them like we think of now.
One has to be born again before the Holy Spirit can be on the inside... and it's actually the Holy Spirit that causes on to be born again from death to live when He is invited in. It's the operation of the Holy Ghost!
And, since ALL things are possible with God (except for lying), Jesus was separated from God (spiritual death) for us, because of OUR sin.
The wages of sin is death (separation from God) which was what God told Adam would happen if he ate of that tree. So, we see in Matthew 27:46 that God did literally forsake or turn away from Jesus... either that, or Jesus lied which I know is not the case although some claim He could not have died spiritually meaning that consider Jesus to have lied about it.
Those that have been taught religion rather than what God's Word actually says seem to hate this and they start manifesting devils and stuff, slobbering at the mouth and claiming heresy as they reject God's Word on the subject... simply because satan is influencing them to act out his own hatred for the defeat Jesus handed Him that allows sinful people to be able to call upon the Name of Jesus and become born again from death to life, thus escaping satan's dominion.
Colossians 1:18
And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.
If Jesus only died physically, then why wasn’t Lazarus (John 11:38-44) identified as being the first born from physical death? What about the Widow's son that Elijah raised from the dead? (1 Kings 17:17-24). Clearly Jesus was not the first person to die physically and be raised from the dead, so Colossians 1:18 couldn’t just be referring to physical death.
Colossians 1:18 could not be referring to just physical death because other people had died before Jesus did and were brought back to life... Elisha resurrected the son of the Shunammite woman (2 Kings 4:35), Jesus resurrects the widow's son at Nain (Luke 7:13-15), Jesus raises Jairus' daughter from the dead (Matthew 9:25), Jesus raises Lazarus from the dead (John 11:43-44).
If Jesus only died physically then either Colossians 1:18 is a lie... or all these other scriptures references are lies... which is it? Does God's Word contradict itself, or does it not? Or... do other scriptures references point to Jesus suffering something more than just physical death???
Isaiah 53:8
By oppression and judgment He was taken away; and as for His generation, who considered
that He was cut off out of the land of the living, stricken for the transgression of My people
“Cut off out of the land of the living” is being separated from Life (God) and is not being in Abraham's bosom which was the temporary location of Paradise which was necessary for the OT saints to be held there until the new birth became available. We know all OT saints went to Abraham's bosom when they died and not into the presence of God because in John 1:18 Jesus said no man had seen God.
Denying what scripture says on this subject makes people not understand how far Jesus went to purchase salvation for us.
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That was after Jesus rose from the dead Rockrz
~Joh 20:20 After saying this, he showed them his hands and his side, and when they saw the Lord the disciples were overjoyed.
Joh 20:21 Jesus told them again, "Peace be with you. Just as the Father has sent me, so I am sending you."
Joh 20:22 When he had said this, he breathed on them and told them, "Receive the Holy Spirit.
Joh 20:23 If you forgive people's sins, they are forgiven. If you retain people's sins, they are retained."
Jesus and Thomas
Joh 20:24 Thomas, one of the Twelve (called the Twin), wasn't with them when Jesus came.
Joh 20:25 So the other disciples kept telling him, "We have seen the Lord!" But he told them, "Unless I see the nail marks in his hands, put my finger into them, and put my hand into his side, I will never believe!"
Joh 20:26 A week later his disciples were again inside, and Thomas was with them. Even though the doors were shut, Jesus came, stood among them, and said, "Peace be with you."
Joh 20:27 Then he told Thomas, "Put your finger here, and look at my hands. Take your hand, and put it into my side. Stop doubting, but believe."
Joh 20:28 Thomas answered him, "My Lord and my God!"
~Joh 20:20 After saying this, he showed them his hands and his side, and when they saw the Lord the disciples were overjoyed.
Joh 20:21 Jesus told them again, "Peace be with you. Just as the Father has sent me, so I am sending you."
Joh 20:22 When he had said this, he breathed on them and told them, "Receive the Holy Spirit.
Joh 20:23 If you forgive people's sins, they are forgiven. If you retain people's sins, they are retained."
Jesus and Thomas
Joh 20:24 Thomas, one of the Twelve (called the Twin), wasn't with them when Jesus came.
Joh 20:25 So the other disciples kept telling him, "We have seen the Lord!" But he told them, "Unless I see the nail marks in his hands, put my finger into them, and put my hand into his side, I will never believe!"
Joh 20:26 A week later his disciples were again inside, and Thomas was with them. Even though the doors were shut, Jesus came, stood among them, and said, "Peace be with you."
Joh 20:27 Then he told Thomas, "Put your finger here, and look at my hands. Take your hand, and put it into my side. Stop doubting, but believe."
Joh 20:28 Thomas answered him, "My Lord and my God!"
Well, certainly the new birth was available after Jesus became the first born again from the dead... it's why He did what He did so we could have opportunity to be born again from death unto life along with Jesus since we were raised with Him:
Romans 6:3-7
Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
For he that is dead is freed from sin.
Romans 6:3-7
Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
For he that is dead is freed from sin.