-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
)
Let us open up the context of chapters 11 and 12 .
The context is Paul's defense of his apostleship. If one is able to boast according to the standard of the flesh, then he has more reason to boast that anyone else and he begins to compile a list of reasons to prove why this is true, 11:16-28. Beginning in verse 22, he says, "Are they Hebrews? So am I. Are they Israelites? So am I. Are they descendants of Abraham? So am I." These are all genealogical factors that he has in common with all other Jews. Then in verse 23, he begins to set forth a list of comparisons in which he is proven to excel above them all. "Are they servants of Christ? ( I speak as if insane) I MORE SO; in far more labors, in far more imprisonments, beaten times without number, often in danger of death.
24. Five times I received from the Jews thirty-nine lashes.
25. Three times I was beaten with rods, once I was stoned, three times I was shipwrecked, a night and a day I have spent in the deep.
26. I have been on frequent journeys, in dangers from rivers, dangers from robbers, dangers from my countrymen, dangers from the Gentiles, dangers in the city, dangers in the wilderness, dangers on the sea, dangers among false brethren;
27. I have been in labor and hardship, through many sleepless nights, in hunger and thirst, often without food, in cold and exposure.
28. Apart from such external things, there is the daily pressure on me of concern for all the churches. From 11:29 through 12:8 he stresses the fact that these are all things that Paul regards as weaknesses of the flesh. These are things that are hard to endure and that he had the right to boast in the fact that he has suffered in the flesh more than all of them. In 12:6 he says that he does not wish to boast in these things, "... but I refrain from this, so that no one will credit me with more than he sees in me or hears from me."
In verse 7, he gives the paramount reason for his capacity for boasting which was "the surpassing greatness of the revelations." To keep him from boasting in this he was given a "thorn in the flesh" to keep him from exalting himself in this. The "thorn" represents something that is external to the flesh but that is intrusive to the flesh. In spite of his petition from God to remove it, God days "My grace is sufficient for you." It is not through Paul's own power that he is able to endure these suffering that have been imposed upon his flesh (not to mention the psychological stress that accompanies these types of experiences), it was the grace of God that enabled him to endure them and to continue to preach in spite of them. The connecting statement that links all of this to gather is in verse 10 when he says, "THEREFORE." What ever he says next is rooted in everything he has said up to this point and he connects it to the thorn that was given him. "Therefore I am well content with weaknesses, insults, distresses, persecutions, and difficulties for Christ's sake. Why? Because "when I am weak THEN I am strong." The thorn made him weak. The grace made him strong. NOW, he is able to rejoice in his sufferings - in his thorn.
So, because of the "the surpassing greatness of the revelations," Paul was allowed to suffer all of these hardships - thorn in the flesh - in order to keep him from exalting himself. One is not so likely to be self-exalting when he is having the hide stripped from his back with a scourge or having to go hungry or floating around in the sea or having his bones broken from being beaten with rods or lying in a pit left for dead after having been stoned. God allowed these things so that Paul would learn humility in spite of the exalted status that God had granted him. Remember what God told Ananias in Acts 9:16 "I will show him how much he must suffer for My name's sake."
I know this is a very brief exegesis of this text and I certainly do not claim it to be infallible. It is possible that I have missed it but, it seems to me that Paul has been very clear in explaining the nature of the thorn that he had been given. If any one has a better exegesis of this text than this, I am certainly open to correction.
His problem with his eyesight has been a favored speculation even among many commentators. We do know from Gal. 6:11 that Paul seems to have had some type of deficiency with his eyes but the nature of what the thorn was seems very clearly defined in the context of 2Cor. 12. Paul uses three different descriptive terms all of which refer to the same thing. He calls it a 'thorn in the flesh', a 'messenger from Satan', and 'my weaknesses'. These weaknesses are not of a singular nature. They are described as insults, distresses, persecutions, and difficulties all of which are in the plural. I do not doubt that his seeming deficiency with his eyes would certainly fall within this menagerie of weaknesses. The 'thorn in the flesh' is simply a descriptive term which he employed to describe a host of things he was called to endure for the cause of Christ. Their purpose was to keep him humble in the midst of his exalted position. It is hard to be proud and self-exalting when some one is beating the hide off of your back with a scourge or breaking you bones with rods or stoning you. These type of experiences are by their very nature humbling.
I'm interested in what translation you have, cause mine doesn't read like that. But diseases are punishments for sin, although these punishments can effect those who didn't even do the sin. Whether to punish, to warn, to show God's miracles of healing, or to test people, God has a purpose for infirmities and diseases. Just like God allows Satan to tempt us, in order to test us.
(Demons were cast to the earth, along with Satan, as punishment. They do not float around as free spirits. They have to be in something physical. Satan was in a snake when he tempered Adam & Eve. Jesus let demons be cast into pigs- cause they had to come out of the human into something else physical. Otherwise they would simply come out and float in the air, but they can't because they are bound to physicality, just like we are while in this world. So they can go in things as tiny as germs, and cause disease. Revelation says a star fell from Heaven, and his name was wormwood. There is no longer demon possession in humans, but they can be in our bodies to cause physical diseases and mental illnesses.)
Well, Paul asked God to take his away, but God put it there purposely. God did say Paul will see how much he has to suffer for His name. When exercising, one could say "Does this weight have to be so heavy?" But without the extra weight, muscle would not build, and you won't get stronger. So even though it's hard now cause you're weak, you will be made stronger by it. Without struggle, there is no reward/benenfit/ positive result.
(Demons were cast to the earth, along with Satan, as punishment. They do not float around as free spirits. They have to be in something physical. Satan was in a snake when he tempered Adam & Eve. Jesus let demons be cast into pigs- cause they had to come out of the human into something else physical. Otherwise they would simply come out and float in the air, but they can't because they are bound to physicality, just like we are while in this world. So they can go in things as tiny as germs, and cause disease. Revelation says a star fell from Heaven, and his name was wormwood. There is no longer demon possession in humans, but they can be in our bodies to cause physical diseases and mental illnesses.)
Well, Paul asked God to take his away, but God put it there purposely. God did say Paul will see how much he has to suffer for His name. When exercising, one could say "Does this weight have to be so heavy?" But without the extra weight, muscle would not build, and you won't get stronger. So even though it's hard now cause you're weak, you will be made stronger by it. Without struggle, there is no reward/benenfit/ positive result.
As oldhermit explains, the "messanger of satan" (from verse 7 in the NIV) was the thorn in his flesh. We each have something about us that will try to drive us away from God. I believe Paul uses the term "messanger of satan" to explain that this thorn in his flesh is of the world and that satan is trying to use against Paul to reject God. Satan does this with each of us in some way but God allows it to keep us grounded in His Word. God will allow certain things to remain in us so that we fully rely upon God in every situation. My "thorn", for example, would be my extensive arthritis both ostio and rheumatoid that God is using in me to keep me humble and relying upon Him for strength. Even in "good times" my arthritis is still there so i still rely upon God to help me thru my days. People ask how i deal with it and my reply is "by the grace of God". The thorn can also be temptations we run into. If we pray, for help from the Holy Spirit, we can avoid the temptations. If we try to tackle the temptations on our own we will most likely fail because we are relying upon our own strength. It is through the strength of "Christ in us" that we can "handle" the many "messangers of satan" that are against us in this world.
Here's something you & I agree on.
Scripture states the great suffering of Paul. Ananias was told Acts 9:16 for I will show him how much he must suffer for My name’s sake.”
No one else comes close to Paul in his sufferings. Paul learned to boast in his weakness that it was then he was strong in Christ.
IMO that "buffeter" was sent to incite the people against Paul thru the Jews everywhere he went.
Scripture states the great suffering of Paul. Ananias was told Acts 9:16 for I will show him how much he must suffer for My name’s sake.”
No one else comes close to Paul in his sufferings. Paul learned to boast in his weakness that it was then he was strong in Christ.
IMO that "buffeter" was sent to incite the people against Paul thru the Jews everywhere he went.