Calvinists,Im Asking...

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kaylagrl

Guest
#1
So sister Lynn came to me with a long private email. I think she and I could have some long winded discussions.lol So what Im wanting in this thread,and Im begging you all to respect,is clear answers to my questions.I have no dog in this fight. Im a straight forward person,so here goes...I do not believe in Calvinism,Im not about to change my mind but I do wish to know more about it. I dont want to be insulted,or screamed at and I wont do the same. Im asking only level headed people to come together in this discussion. I dont want to hear from either side things like "you lie,you hate the Scriptures,you're too stupid to get it" Im asking being as open as I can be considering I have my own belief. Please,PLEASE respect this,EVERYONE!

Now sister Lynn Im sure you've tried to tell me things and I honestly either have not heard or understood what you were saying. So I am going to ask questions. Im asking what you believe and Im not trying to offend. Im going to ask stupid questions,Im sure I'll have wrong assumptions but IM ASKING for answers. I thought I had understood Calvinism but perhaps not. Im Pentecostal but Im not a long hair,jean skirt,you must speak in tongues to be saved Pentecostal.So deep breath,here we go. Im going to ask questions,Im not going to change my mind but I want to know the truth about what Calvinists believe because Im missing something here. Those who dont believe in Calvinism please dont jump in and tell me what they believe.Let them answer,please.

First question. Do Calvinists and Reformed believe the same thing? Ive heard of Reformed but not sure how or if they tie in with Calvinists. Remember,only respond if you can be civil. If you do not I will ignore you and not answer you in this thread,I urge others to do the same.
 

ForthAngel

Senior Member
Aug 31, 2012
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#2
Reformed is a better term. Calvinist started out as a derogatory term and really puts too much emphasis on the man. They are the same thing though.
 

Marano

Senior Member
Dec 7, 2011
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#3
Usually people will say calvinists are people who hold to the 5 tulip points, and reformed hold to covenantal theology too along with other things.

Personally I don't have a problem with calvinists calling themselves reformed, I do think it's better term, I wish reformed theology was just called biblical theology but unfortunately that's not so.

I'm not your usual calvinist as I don't believe in a lot of things other calvinistic believers do, like for example in eschatology, I don't hold an ammileanist position, but that's not required for one to be called reformed.

Some have issues with baptism as well, where presbyterias believe in paedo baptism, as I'm a baptist myself, I believe in credo baptism.

There's also those who believe gifts have ceased these days, I don't believe that myself, I believe spiritual gifts are still for today but maybe not the way it's seen in some charismatic churches.

And also I'm a creationists, I align with a young earth view, where I believe most reformed folks hold to an old earth view, some with the gap day theory.

Anyway there are disagreements even among reformed folks, what I did was just to show where I differ from them and what they believe mostly.
 

Marano

Senior Member
Dec 7, 2011
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#4
Reformed is a better term. Calvinist started out as a derogatory term and really puts too much emphasis on the man. They are the same thing though.
I like the term reformed too, if we can't just call it biblical, we should all call it reformed faith.
 

trofimus

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2015
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#5
IMHO, not all reformed are Calvinists. Its like higher group and Calvinists are a subgroup.

The reformation was much wider than just the "Calvin or Luther?" (ever heard of the Czech reformation? :)

But it always depends on the use of the term, whether historically or theologically or how it is used in a common language or in some specific (American) culture etc.
 

ForthAngel

Senior Member
Aug 31, 2012
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#6
IMHO, not all reformed are Calvinists. Its like higher group and Calvinists are a subgroup.

The reformation was much wider than just the "Calvin or Luther?" (ever heard of the Czech reformation? :)

But it always depends on the use of the term, whether historically or theologically or how it is used in a common language or in some specific (American) culture etc.
True, but they tend to be synonymous these days, at least where I am. The reason I don't like Calvinist is because I don't believe everything he ever said or wrote. Whereas with reformed theology, which should rightly be called biblical theology like Marano said, takes the emphasis off of a long past dead man and puts it back on scripture and God.
 

trofimus

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2015
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#7
True, but they tend to be synonymous these days, at least where I am. The reason I don't like Calvinist is because I don't believe everything he ever said or wrote. Whereas with reformed theology, which should rightly be called biblical theology like Marano said, takes the emphasis off of a long past dead man and puts it back on scripture and God.
In some sense, we can say that all Lutherans, Calvinists, Czech Brothers, Moravian Brothers, Plymouth Brothers etc etc etc are "reformed".

But I agree that in American culture, it seems to me that the "reformed" term is used mainly as a different name for Calvinists.
 

Marano

Senior Member
Dec 7, 2011
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#8
Before the foundation of the world, God the Father, Jesus Christ the Son, and the holy spirit designed a plan that would bring glory to the God the Father through creation, He did that so that He would have a people to be called His own and designed it that way and for Him to be glorified in the process.

Jesus' death on the cross and redeeming us wasn't an afterthought to Adam sinning in the garden of Eden, it was God's plan all along that things would happen that way, and He did things as to maximize the glory He receives from His creation, all the evil in the world isn't meaningless, it all has a purpose and you can believe me or not, but even actions intended as evil by men are intended for good by God, as Paul said was the case in Jesus going to calvary, it was the result of actions by 4 groups of people, yet God had designed that to be the means by which Christ would die and redeem us, yet He's still just and punishes evildoers for their actions, even if God intended them for good.

In the reformed faith, salvation is a work of the triune God: God the Father elected us to be saved, Jesus the Son died in our place and received the just compensation for our sins and the holy spirit works in those who God the Father elected and those people then believe in Christ and his work at calvary, no one can believe if the holy spirit doesn't convict them first.
 
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Aug 16, 2016
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#9
Before the foundation of the world, God the Father, Jesus Christ the Son, and the holy spirit designed a plan that would bring glory to the God the Father through creation, He did that so that He would have a people to be called His own and designed it that way and for Him to be glorified in the process. Jesus' death on the cross and redeeming us wasn't an afterthought to Adam sinning in the garden of Eden, it was God's plan all along that things would happen that way, and He did things as to maximize the glory He receives from His creation, all the evil in the world isn't meaningless, it all has a purpose and you can believe me or not, but even actions intended as evil by men are intended for good by God, as Paul said was the case in Jesus going to calvary, it was the result of actions by 4 groups of people, yet God had designed that to be the means by which Christ would die and redeem us. In the reformed faith, salvation is a work of the triune God: God the Father elected us to be saved, Jesus the Son died in our place and received the just compensation for our sins and the holy spirit works in those who God the Father elected and those people then believe in Christ and his work at calvary, no one can believe if the holy spirit doesn't convict them first.
I gotta find this book that says Christ died only for the elect because it seems as of today no such thing exist.
 
K

kaylagrl

Guest
#10
Reformed is a better term. Calvinist started out as a derogatory term and really puts too much emphasis on the man. They are the same thing though.

THANK YOU! One thing answered. All my friends call themselves Calvinists so as I said,I had heard Reformed but did not know they were the same thing. So the Calvinists I know are also Baptist. So would you attend a Reformed or Baptist,or it wouldn't matter. And I do know not all Baptists are Calvinists.
 

trofimus

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2015
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#11
I wonder, how many Calvinists here read the Institution of the Christian Religion by Calvin? :)

If almost nobody, "reformed" will be a better term for them, then :)
 

Marano

Senior Member
Dec 7, 2011
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#12
I gotta find this book that says Christ died only for the elect because it seems as of today no such thing exist.
[h=1]Matthew 1:21New International Version (NIV)[/h][FONT=&quot]21 She will give birth to a son, and you are to give him the name Jesus,[a]because he will save his people from their sins.”

It says Jesus saves His people from their sins? If he saved all people from all their sins this verse wouldn't make sense, Christ's sacrifice at calvary effectively paid in full the price for the sins of His people.

Note in this verse His people are not only the jews since we know the gentiles are counted among the elect too and that's the meaning of the whole world, jews and gentiles, because the jews at the time thought salvation was for the jews only.

So if you bring up John 3:16 you need to bring the context of it too.[/FONT]
 

Marano

Senior Member
Dec 7, 2011
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#13

THANK YOU! One thing answered. All my friends call themselves Calvinists so as I said,I had heard Reformed but did not know they were the same thing. So the Calvinists I know are also Baptist. So would you attend a Reformed or Baptist,or it wouldn't matter. And I do know not all Baptists are Calvinists.
There are a lot of baptists who are not reformed, in the past reformed baptists were called particular baptists, I'm baptist myself, yet the church I go to doesn't hold to all 5 points of the TULIP, only to perseverance of the saints.
 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
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#14
Calvinism and the reformation are certainly connected at least by those who write history. The reformation was an event that brought to focus the question of how a man is justified before God. The reformation was in essence a revival of religion. The reformation was personified by Luther when he left the RCC.

The reformation seeks the answer to how does an man obtain the necessary righteousness to be justified before God. Interestingly enough Warfield suggests that Augustine is the father of the RCC and the father of the reformation. The father of the doctrine of justification by grace which ultimately triumphed over the doctrine of the church. The church as the RCC went one way while the reformers went the other way.

James Arminius was an orthodox Dutch Reformed theologian. He was not sympathetic to the RCC.

Time to get back to being just a simple bible believing Christian.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 

ForthAngel

Senior Member
Aug 31, 2012
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#15

THANK YOU! One thing answered. All my friends call themselves Calvinists so as I said,I had heard Reformed but did not know they were the same thing. So the Calvinists I know are also Baptist. So would you attend a Reformed or Baptist,or it wouldn't matter. And I do know not all Baptists are Calvinists.

Well, there are a lot of different baptists and they differ pretty greatly on theology and doctrine. I would consider myself a reformed baptist.
 
Aug 16, 2016
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#16
[h=1]Matthew 1:21New International Version (NIV)[/h][FONT=&quot]21 She will give birth to a son, and you are to give him the name Jesus,[a]because he will save his people from their sins.” It says Jesus saves His people from their sins? If he saved all people from all their sins this verse wouldn't make sense, Christ's sacrifice at calvary effectively paid in full the price for the sins of His people. Note in this verse His people are not only the jews since we know the gentiles are counted among the elect too and that's the meaning of the whole world, jews and gentiles, because the jews at the time thought salvation was for the jews only. So if you bring up John 3:16 you need to bring the context of it too.[/FONT]
The infamous John 316 scripture is pretty straight forward, the only way you can get "elect" out of that is if you choose to misinterpret it. In addition if you choose to read forward it clearly states " For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through Him." The "WORLD" not solely the elect.
 

Marano

Senior Member
Dec 7, 2011
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#17
The infamous John 316 scripture is pretty straight forward, the only way you can get "elect" out of that is if you choose to misinterpret it. In addition if you choose to read forward it clearly states " For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through Him." The "WORLD" not solely the elect.
And if you read forward it says whoever doesn't believe in Jesus is condemned already, Jesus was talking to a jewish teacher, a master of the law, they believed salvation was for the jews only, in that context world means not only jews but also gentiles, that's what Jesus is saying, if world meant everyone who ever lived or will live, everyone would be saved, and we know that's not true, some have perished and some will perish, you don't wanna be a universalist now do you?
 

trofimus

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2015
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#18
Seems more like another thread in a style "calvinists vs arminians" rather than "calvinists, I am asking" :)
 

Marano

Senior Member
Dec 7, 2011
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#20
Seems more like another thread in a style "calvinists vs arminians" rather than "calvinists, I am asking" :)
That's what I was going to say to prynceny, I don't believe it was convenient for him to come posting here, since it was directed to calvinists not arminians and what they think of reformed faith, still we're trying to answer op as best as we can.