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Thread: Falling away from the Faith (it's possible)

  1. #21
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    Default Re: Falling away from the Faith (it's possible)

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris1975 View Post

    Hebrews 3

    12 Beware, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief in departing from the living God; 13 but exhort one another daily, while it is called “Today,” lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. 14 For we have become partakers of Christ if we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end, 15


    They had not been 'partakers of Christ', so they were evidently not Christians. He was talking to his Jewish brethren,

    while it is said: “Today, if you will hear His voice, Do not harden your hearts as in the rebellion.”[c]
    They were not to harden their hearts against becoming Christians,

    Now what is plain to see is this:
    -he is addressing the brethren. Christians
    .

    See above. He SAYS they are not partakers of Christ. How then can they be Christians?

    -departing from the living God (means that they were once with Him)
    They were Jews who had departed from the living God. Living God is a Jewish phrase.

    -departing is as a result of unbelief
    They did not have faith.

    -sin is the door which leads to unbelief (deceitfulness of sin)
    Rather unbelief leads to sin. They departed because they DID NOT believe.

    You are clutching at straws.

    -we are ONLY partakers with Christ is we hold the BEGINNING of our confidence steadfast to the end. <this should be straightforward to understand. Unless you don't want to see it that way.>

    Not partakers of Christ, therefore never Christians. IT SAYS SO.

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    Default Re: Falling away from the Faith (it's possible)

    Quote Originally Posted by valiant View Post
    They had not been 'partakers of Christ', so they were evidently not Christians. He was talking to his Jewish brethren,



    They were not to harden their hearts against becoming Christians,

    .

    See above. He SAYS they are not partakers of Christ. How then can they be Christians?



    They were Jews who had departed from the living God. Living God is a Jewish phrase.



    They did not have faith.



    Rather unbelief leads to sin. They departed because they DID NOT believe.

    You are clutching at straws.



    Not partakers of Christ, therefore never Christians. IT SAYS SO.
    The term "we" is used when referring to the brethren, of who the writer is also part of the brethren. So you are 100% wrong. "We" have become partakers if "we" hold fast the confidence to the end. See, the writer includes himself.

    So have a relook. Then you will understand.
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    Default Re: Falling away from the Faith (it's possible)

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris1975 View Post
    May the Spirit of God open your eyes to the below, so that if you are in error, you may repent and get onboard with the will of God and preach truth on this matter. Its not about pridefully defending your position. It's about the truth.

    Colossians 1v21-23


    21
    And you, who once were alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now He has reconciled <become believers> 22 in the body of His flesh through death, to present you holy, and blameless, and above reproach in His sight— 23 if indeed you continue in the faith, grounded and steadfast, and are not moved away from the hope of the gospel which you heard, which was preached to every creature under heaven, of which I, Paul, became a minister.

    Now what is plain to see is this:
    -These were believers above
    -They were to be presented holy, blameless and above reproach (no scope for unrepentant sin in a believers life)
    -this is possible (IF THEY CONTINUED IN THE FAITH) - grounded, steadfast, not moved.

    Other evidences:

    Luke 22 v31-32

    31 And the Lord said,[c] “Simon, Simon! Indeed, Satan has asked for you, that he may sift you as wheat. 32 But I have prayed for you, that your faith should not fail; and when you have returned to Me, strengthen your brethren.”


    Now what is plain to see is this:
    -If it were not possible for faith to fail, as the strong delusionalists claim, then it would not be necessary for Jesus to have had to pray to the Father this prayer above.

    1 Timothy 2 v18-20

    18 This charge I commit to you, son Timothy, according to the prophecies previously made concerning you, that by them you may wage the good warfare, 19 having faith and a good conscience, which some having rejected, concerning the faith have suffered shipwreck, 20 of whom are Hymenaeus and Alexander, whom I delivered to Satan that they may learn not to blaspheme.


    2 Timothy 2 v16-19
    16 But shun profane and idle babblings, for they will increase to more ungodliness. 17 And their message will spread like cancer. Hymenaeus and Philetus are of this sort, 18 who have strayed concerning the truth, saying that the resurrection is already past; and they overthrow the faith of some. 19 Nevertheless the solid foundation of God stands, having this seal: “The Lord knows those who are His,” and, “Let everyone who names the name of Christ[c] depart from iniquity.”

    Now what is plain to see is this:
    -its possible to stray concerning the truth
    -its possible to once have known the truth but to have strayed therefrom
    -faith can be overthrown.
    -these people are no longer saved. Because you can only receive salvation through faith.
    -sin is still a factor " Let everyone who names the name of Christ depart from iniquity". Contrary to what the strong delusionalists say.

    Jude
    3 Beloved, while I was very diligent to write to you concerning our common salvation, I found it necessary to write to you exhorting you to contend earnestly for the faith which was once for all delivered to the saints.

    Now what is plain to see is this:
    -contending for the faith - its a prize. It is to be protected, defended, fought for.
    -by not contending for this, it can be lost.

    2 Timothy 4v7-8

    7 I have fought a good fight, I have finished my course, I have kept the faith:

    8 Henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at that day: and not to me only, but unto all them also that love his appearing.

    Now what is plain to see is this:
    -Paul, writer of most of the New Testament, fought the good fight. Finished the course. And KEPT the faith.
    -why would it be necessary for him to write about "kept the faith" if it wasn't possible to have lost faith.

    1 John 5v4
    4 For whatever is born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world—our[a] faith.

    Now what is plain to see is this:
    -Our faith is what overcomes the world. We are supposed to OVERCOME THE WORLD.
    -What is the world? (definition:1 John 2v16 16 For all that is in the world—the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life—is not of the Father but is of the world).

    Revelation 2v10b
    10(b) Be faithful until death, and I will give you the crown of life.

    Now what is plain to see is this:
    -Faith is not a once off, momentary decision, applicable for all time.
    -Faith, once received, once believed, is to be maintained.
    -the corollary is this - if you are NOT faithful until death, or lose your faith, you shall not receive the crown of life.


    The word is very clear - its to him who overcomes:
    Revelation 2v7b To him who overcomes I will give to eat from the tree of life
    Revelation 2v11b He who overcomes shall not be hurt by the second death.
    Revelation 2v17b To him who overcomes I will give some of the hidden manna to eat.
    Revelation 2v26 26 And he who overcomes, and keeps My works until the end, to him I will give power over the nations—
    Revelation 3v5 He who overcomes shall be clothed in white garments, and I will not blot out his name from the Book of Life
    Revelation 3v12He who overcomes, I will make him a pillar in the temple of My God, and he shall go out no more.
    Revelation 3v21 To him who overcomes I will grant to sit with Me on My throne


    Now to those who lose the faith. Who once had the faith yet turned their backs on Christ, we have the subject matter of the 'other' thread. Which is clearly visible for all to see below:

    Hebrews 6v4-6

    4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, 5 and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, 6 if they fall away,[b] to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame.


    Now what is plain to see is this:
    -Let there no no illusions that these were believers, and were once in the faith.
    -once they "fall away" (and we can see that this is a very real risk warned about by the NT writers, as well as Jesus) to be renewed again unto repentance.
    they that keepeth the faith until the end shall be saved..................god bless yas...
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    Default Re: Falling away from the Faith (it's possible)

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris1975 View Post

    Hebrews 3

    12 Beware, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief in departing from the living God; 13 but exhort one another daily, while it is called “Today,” lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. 14 For we have become partakers of Christ if we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end, 15 while it is said:

    “Today, if you will hear His voice,
    Do not harden your hearts as in the rebellion.”[c]



    Now what is plain to see is this:
    -he is addressing the brethren. Christians.
    -departing from the living God (means that they were once with Him)
    -departing is as a result of unbelief
    -sin is the door which leads to unbelief (deceitfulness of sin)
    -we are ONLY partakers with Christ is we hold the BEGINNING of our confidence steadfast to the end. <this should be straightforward to understand. Unless you don't want to see it that way.>

    The pattern here in Hebrews 3 follows exactly the pattern in the OP posting.

    Now lets continue with Hebrews 3 to understand more depth, and run an analogy with the church:

    Hebrews 3
    16 For who, having heard, rebelled? Indeed, was it not all who came out of Egypt, led by Moses? 17 Now with whom was He angry forty years? Was it not with those who sinned, whose corpses fell in the wilderness? 18 And to whom did He swear that they would not enter His rest, but to those who did not obey? 19 So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief.

    Now what is plain to see is this:
    -just as he delivered a people out of physical Egypt (the nation of Israel), so too he delivers a people of of spiritual Egypt (His church)
    - what led to their destruction? Sin, Disobedience
    - to whom did God swear would not enter His rest (eternal life) - those who did not obey.
    - whom are they who do not obey? Those with unbelief. For unbelief leads to disobedience.
    - so the pattern we have here is that God delivers a people (Israel / Church), yet later destroys those who no longer believe (Israel/ and the Apostates within the church).
    - just remember who this is written to. Its written to the brethren (verse 12) as a warning.
    - God is consistent throughout the bible.
    The Lord delivered His people (the Israelites) out of Egypt, but later destroyed those who did not believe (Jude 1:5). God had revealed Himself to these Israelites and chosen them as His people, but does that mean they were ALL saved? NO. The writer of Hebrews is addressing brethren here in verse 12, but does this mean that EVERYONE in this very large group of Hebrews must be a genuine believer? NO. As we read in verse 14, For we have become [past tense Gk. verb, gegonamen, meaning we have become already] partakers of Christ, if we hold fast the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end." Notice that this is essentially a repeat of verse 6, where we read: but Christ was faithful as a Son over His house - whose house we are, if we hold fast our confidence and the boast of our hope firm until the end. The only ones in the end who will be identified as those who have become partakers of Christ, will have been those who hold fast the beginning of their confidence steadfast to the end." These faltering Hebrews who depart from God begin with loud confidence and profession of loyalty. But later? The wording of the above verse in Hebrews is not - "and you will become partakers of Christ (future indicative) if you (future indicative) hold fast." It is rather - "you have been, and now are, partakers of Christ, if in the future you hold fast to Christ." Holding fast to Christ is a manifestation of genuine belief and having become partakers of Christ and departing from God is a manifestation of unbelief and failure to have become partakers of Christ.

    *Hebrews 3:8-10 says, Do not harden your hearts as in the rebellion, In the day of trial in the wilderness, Where your fathers tested Me, tried Me, And saw My works forty years. Therefore I was angry with that generation, And said, 'They always go astray in their heart, And they have not known My ways.' Not descriptive of believers. There is no loss of salvation here. Only a failure to receive it. Verses 18-19 - And to whom did He swear that they would not enter His rest, but to those who did not obey? So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief. Disobedience was a manifestation of their unbelief. That explains the hardened heart. It took them in the opposite direction of God. Considered the truth for a time, then hardened heart and departing from God became their final answer.

    Lets continue into Hebrews 4

    Hebrews 4
    4 Therefore, since a promise remains of entering His rest, let us fear lest any of you seem to have come short of it. 2 For indeed the gospel was preached to us as well as to them; but the word which they heard did not profit them,[a] not being mixed with faith in those who heard it. 3 For we who have believed do enter that rest, as He has said:

    “So I swore in My wrath,
    ‘They shall not enter My rest,’”[b]

    Now what is plain to see is this:
    - there is a promise to enter His rest (eternal life)
    - we as brethren should fear (its says so!)
    - to come short of it (to either not attain it, or to lose your faith <see Hebrews 3v12 - "departing">.
    - To once again fall into unbelief - see Hebrews 3 leading up to this point, and in particular Hebrew 3v14 - the beginning of our confidence has to be held steadfast until the end)
    - for only those who have faith (to the end) will enter that rest. Only then is your salvation made complete.

    Now lets confirm this again in verse 11:

    11 Let us therefore be diligent to enter that rest, lest anyone fall according to the same example of disobedience.

    Now what is plain to see is this:
    - diligence. heeding the warnings
    - fall (and this means not entering the rest - means loss of salvation)
    - why? disobedience.
    - The writer of Hebrews is using the term "same example" to show the church the pattern of Israel. And by implication the impact on the church will suffer the same fate should they walk in the same patterns as Israel of old.
    - the pattern repeats itself. The bible confirms scripture with scripture. Amen.
    In Hebrews 4:2-3, we read: For indeed the gospel was preached to us as well as to them; but the word which they heard did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in those who heard it. For we who have BELIEVED do enter that rest, as He has said: "So I swore in My wrath, 'They shall not enter My rest," although the works were finished from the foundation of the world. Notice that verses 2-3 makes a distinction between "us" who have BELIEVED and do enter that rest and "them" who heard the word but did not mix faith with what they heard and will not enter that rest because of UNBELIEF. In regards to verse 11, see my comments on *Hebrews 3:8-10.
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    I'm not a bad guy. I'm just misunderstood.

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    Default Re: Falling away from the Faith (it's possible)

    Moses never entered into the promise land because of his unbelief in what God said and he struck the rock twice and yet Moses is with the Lord now and he showed up with Elijah at the transfiguration of Jesus on the mount.

    People that have the erroneous belief we lose our salvation always see the scriptures as people being kicked out of Christ and going to hell even though Jesus said the Holy Spirit will be with us and in us forever. John 14:16 The unbelief in Christ's work on the cross and resurrection is staggering to me.
    mailmandan, Magenta and Rosemaryx like this.
    The new man in Christ - the new creation that is created in righteousness and

    holiness hears the heart voice of the Spirit and not an old head noise of the letter

    of the word. The Pharisees knew "bible knowledge" but they did not

    know God's heart and so they erred in really understanding what the

    scriptures were saying.


    The Lord wants us to look through His eyes and to live from His heart towards

    people, towards Him and towards ourselves as well.

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    Default Re: Falling away from the Faith (it's possible)

    False prophets and teachers, and the impact on believers...as per the below:

    2 Peter 2


    18
    For when they speak great swelling words of emptiness, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, through lewdness, the ones who have actually escaped[d] from those who live in error. <how do you escape? can an unbeliever or unregenerate man escape? No. Only a believer can escape> 19 While they promise them liberty, they themselves are slaves of corruption; for by whom a person is overcome, by him also he is brought into bondage. 20 For if, after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the latter end is worse for them than the beginning. <Apostasy. Through the belief in another doctrine. A falling away of their faith. Usually through an open door of sin. See verse 18> 21 For it would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness <which by the way, from clear evidence above, was sufficient for them to have escaped the world. Once again, not available to an unbeliever. Could only have been a believer>, than having known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered to them <they turn. it's a choice they make>. 22 But it has happened to them according to the true proverb: “A dog returns to his own vomit,”[e] and, “a sow, having washed, to her wallowing in the mire.”
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    Default Re: Falling away from the Faith (it's possible)

    Quote Originally Posted by Grace777x70 View Post
    Moses never entered into the promise land because of his unbelief in what God said and he struck the rock twice and yet Moses is with the Lord now and he showed up with Elijah at the transfiguration of Jesus on the mount.

    People that have the erroneous belief we lose our salvation always see the scriptures as people being kicked out of Christ and going to hell even though Jesus said the Holy Spirit will be with us and in us forever. John 14:16 The unbelief in Christ's work on the cross and resurrection is staggering to me.
    Do you think that Moses had a godly sorrow and a change of heart (repentance) over this matter?
    If so, then he is restored. It's not complicated.

    If Moses then rebelled against God's judgements, do you think it would have gone as well for him?

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    Default Re: Falling away from the Faith (it's possible)

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris1975 View Post
    Do you think that Moses had a godly sorrow and a change of heart (repentance) over this matter?
    If so, then he is restored. It's not complicated.

    If Moses then rebelled against God's judgements, do you think it would have gone as well for him?

    What it shows is that those didn't entered into the promise land ( including Moses ) because of unbelief which what your theory was all about in Hebrews 4 and you equate that to going to hell.

    The people of Israel too had sorrow and repented but God still didn't allow them to enter into the promise land.

    I really encourage you to start believing in Christ Himself and what He has already done in His work on the cross and resurrection. In Him was life and the life is the light of men.

    BTW - the promised land is Christ Himself having the fullness of His life manifesting in and through us that believe.

    God still supernaturally took care of the Israelites in their unbelief all the time in the wilderness. Miracles and having God provide for us is different then experiencing the fullness of Christ in and through us in this life.
    Last edited by Grace777x70; May 11th, 2017 at 06:34 PM.
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    The new man in Christ - the new creation that is created in righteousness and

    holiness hears the heart voice of the Spirit and not an old head noise of the letter

    of the word. The Pharisees knew "bible knowledge" but they did not

    know God's heart and so they erred in really understanding what the

    scriptures were saying.


    The Lord wants us to look through His eyes and to live from His heart towards

    people, towards Him and towards ourselves as well.

  9. #29
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    Default Re: Falling away from the Faith (it's possible)

    Quote Originally Posted by Blain View Post
    The osas people might have some 2 cents to put in
    They can spend that 2 cents elsewhere lol
    Sometimes we must not be afraid to ask why and question everything we Know!

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    Default Re: Falling away from the Faith (it's possible)

    Quote Originally Posted by trofimus View Post
    Yes, it is possible.

    OSAS does not contradict that, IMHO. None of the posted verses says that who is saved can loose his salvation.
    No one can lose salvation but only deny it by walking from it willingly
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    Sometimes we must not be afraid to ask why and question everything we Know!

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    Default Re: Falling away from the Faith (it's possible)

    Quote Originally Posted by Grace777x70 View Post
    All of these scriptures have been addressed many times in the past and "in context" and in the reality of the finished work of Christ.

    I will address the first one as it is a common one used by those that believe Christ forsakes us and we lose salvation as in being joined as one spirit with the Lord. Jesus Himself said that the Holy Spirit will be in us forever. John 14:16.

    The question to ask is : Is Jesus a liar? I say - NO. I'm a believer in what Christ has done.

    Our hope is certain in Christ because being in the faith is determined as fulfilled.

    There are a lot of times in the original Greek the "if" is actually a statement of it is determined as fulfilled.....

    It is called "a condition of the first class"..... Colossians 1:23 is a prime example:

    Colossians 1:23 (NASB)
    23 if indeed you continue in the faith firmly established and steadfast, and not moved away from the hope of the gospel that you have heard, which was proclaimed in all creation under heaven, and of which I, Paul, was made a minister.


    If so be that ye continue in the faith (ei ge epimenete tēi pistei).


    Condition of the first class (determined as fulfilled),

    Word Pictures in the New Testament. A. T. Robertson Greek Scholar


    Sort of like this....you are going to the bank..( and you have gone to the bank ) and I say to you.... "If" you are going to the bank ( determined as already fulfilled )...give me $100 bucks you owe me

    I'll take a check too...
    Yes your right in context they still uphold the very real possibility that apostasy exists.
    Sometimes we must not be afraid to ask why and question everything we Know!

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    Default Re: Falling away from the Faith (it's possible)

    Quote Originally Posted by eternally-gratefull View Post
    No, Telling people it is possible is dangerous.

    It takes the focus off God, and puts the focus of salvation on self. It makes you responsible for doing whatever has to be done to keep from losing your salvation.

    This has a few dangerous problems...

    1. A person will realize he can not live up to Gods standard (no one can) and he will give up, why bother? Then leave the church and return to his sin, or his religion.

    2. A person will have to water down Gods standard, to get to the point they are walking above Gods standard. so they will not be judged (be deceived of their own sin and sinfulness)

    3. The person will try to hide his sin, and be forced to try to cover it up, And not confess it to people so he can find healing, because he is afraid he will be judged.

    4. In the long run, They end up being judgemental holier than though people. who judge others to make themselves feel better, Unable to hide their sin anymore, and walk away, Or self righteous people who have gained a following, and thinks he is doing Gods will.

    Only in full grace and unconditional salvation can you see true sinners come together of all ages and walks, and become united and a family, because it is not about performance, it is about God, and the focus of growing together in Christ and fulfilling the great commission.





    Telling them its impossible gives the devil a foothold to promote sin, laziness, slip on reliance in God, and gives room to abuse Gods scriptures by making them look as guide lines instead of commands.
    Sometimes we must not be afraid to ask why and question everything we Know!

    http://www.onenewsnow.com/
    http://christianchat.com/testimonies...nto-storm.html Led into the Storm
    http://christianchat.com/testimonies...testimony.html
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    Default Re: Falling away from the Faith (it's possible)

    All warnings are redundant, all scripture on keeping faith redundant, scripture on falling away redundant, apostasy redundant, abide in Christ redundant, remsin in the vine redundant.

    OSAS just falls right into the nonsense of the other 4 doctrines in tulip.

    Satin of course want people to believe he has no more influence on a believer. Lord help the church
    Sometimes we must not be afraid to ask why and question everything we Know!

    http://www.onenewsnow.com/
    http://christianchat.com/testimonies...nto-storm.html Led into the Storm
    http://christianchat.com/testimonies...testimony.html
    My revelation Story.

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    Default Re: Falling away from the Faith (it's possible)

    Quote Originally Posted by Roughsoul1991 View Post
    All warnings are redundant, all scripture on keeping faith redundant, scripture on falling away redundant, apostasy redundant, abide in Christ redundant, remsin in the vine redundant.

    OSAS just falls right into the nonsense of the other 4 doctrines in tulip.

    Satin of course want people to believe he has no more influence on a believer. Lord help the church
    Satin is slippery. So is Satan


    Embrace the Grace and Rejoice in His Everlasting Mercy and Love

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    Default Re: Falling away from the Faith (it's possible)

    Quote Originally Posted by Magenta View Post
    Satin is slippery. So is Satan
    Spellcheck ugh
    Magenta and Grace777x70 like this.
    Sometimes we must not be afraid to ask why and question everything we Know!

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    http://christianchat.com/testimonies...nto-storm.html Led into the Storm
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    My revelation Story.

  16. #36
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    Default Re: Falling away from the Faith (it's possible)

    Quote Originally Posted by Roughsoul1991 View Post
    Telling them its impossible gives the devil a foothold to promote sin, laziness, slip on reliance in God, and gives room to abuse Gods scriptures by making them look as guide lines instead of commands.
    Yeah, Whatever.

    People abuse Gods commands by watering down his law. And thinking they are righteous, when they are not.

    You did not refute any of my comments, So until you can, I guess I will let them stand..
    Eternally Grateful for the grace God has shown a wretched soul such as myself.

    Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus,

  17. #37
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    Default Re: Falling away from the Faith (it's possible)

    Quote Originally Posted by Roughsoul1991 View Post
    All warnings are redundant, all scripture on keeping faith redundant, scripture on falling away redundant, apostasy redundant, abide in Christ redundant, remsin in the vine redundant.

    OSAS just falls right into the nonsense of the other 4 doctrines in tulip.

    Satin of course want people to believe he has no more influence on a believer. Lord help the church
    Yep OSAS is evil, so lets replace it with shelf righteousness and legalism. (SMH)
    Eternally Grateful for the grace God has shown a wretched soul such as myself.

    Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus,

  18. #38
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    Default Re: Falling away from the Faith (it's possible)

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris1975 View Post
    False prophets and teachers, and the impact on believers...as per the below:

    2 Peter 2


    18
    For when they speak great swelling words of emptiness, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, through lewdness, the ones who have actually escaped[d] from those who live in error. <how do you escape? can an unbeliever or unregenerate man escape? No. Only a believer can escape> 19 While they promise them liberty, they themselves are slaves of corruption; for by whom a person is overcome, by him also he is brought into bondage. 20 For if, after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the latter end is worse for them than the beginning. <Apostasy. Through the belief in another doctrine. A falling away of their faith. Usually through an open door of sin. See verse 18> 21 For it would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness <which by the way, from clear evidence above, was sufficient for them to have escaped the world. Once again, not available to an unbeliever. Could only have been a believer>, than having known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered to them <they turn. it's a choice they make>. 22 But it has happened to them according to the true proverb: “A dog returns to his own vomit,”[e] and, “a sow, having washed, to her wallowing in the mire.”
    Those who are truly born of God have received a new nature, a divine nature, and they have new and different appetites and desires. They have been transformed from pigs and dogs into sheep. The change is more than just cosmetic, as in 2 Peter 2:20. *These cleaned up on the outside dogs and pigs were never sheep.

    Compare 2 Peter 1:4 - "partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption - Strongs #5356 that is in the world through lust with 2 Peter 2:20 - with they escaped the pollutions - Strongs #3356 (different Greek word) of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, yet they are again entangled therein, and overcome. *Notice that 2 Peter 2:20 did not mention them being "partakers of the divine nature.

    Corruption (Strong's #5356) (to shrivel or wither, spoil , ruin , deprave, corrupt , defile, to destroy by means of corrupting, to spoil as does milk). Corruption - describes decomposition or rotting of an organism and the accompanying stench. The utter depravity of the fallen flesh and the resultant moral decomposition of the world opposed to God is driven by it sinful lusts or evil desires. Internal corruption.

    Pollutions/Defilements (Strongs #3393) ("pollutions", "filthy things", "contaminations", "world's filth") describes the state of being tainted or stained by evil and refers to impurity, impure, tainted, defilement, foulness or pollution. Pollutions/Defilement refers to what is on the outside (2 Peter 2:20). But genuine believers have escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust (2 Peter 1:4).

    Corruption is deeper than pollutions/defilements on the outside: it is decay on the inside.

    Having the knowledge of Jesus Christ does not save a person if there is no heart submission to that knowledge. The latter end is worse than the beginning for these men because rejecting this knowledge will make them more accountable at the judgment.
    I'm not a bad guy. I'm just misunderstood.

    Galatians 6:14 - But God forbid that I should boast except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world.

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    Default Re: Falling away from the Faith (it's possible)

    Quote Originally Posted by mailmandan View Post
    Those who are truly born of God have received a new nature, a divine nature, and they have new and different appetites and desires. They have been transformed from pigs and dogs into sheep. The change is more than just cosmetic, as in 2 Peter 2:20. *These cleaned up on the outside dogs and pigs were never sheep.

    Compare 2 Peter 1:4 - "partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption - Strongs #5356 that is in the world through lust with 2 Peter 2:20 - with they escaped the pollutions - Strongs #3356 (different Greek word) of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, yet they are again entangled therein, and overcome. *Notice that 2 Peter 2:20 did not mention them being "partakers of the divine nature.

    Corruption (Strong's #5356) (to shrivel or wither, spoil , ruin , deprave, corrupt , defile, to destroy by means of corrupting, to spoil as does milk). Corruption - describes decomposition or rotting of an organism and the accompanying stench. The utter depravity of the fallen flesh and the resultant moral decomposition of the world opposed to God is driven by it sinful lusts or evil desires. Internal corruption.

    Pollutions/Defilements (Strongs #3393) ("pollutions", "filthy things", "contaminations", "world's filth") describes the state of being tainted or stained by evil and refers to impurity, impure, tainted, defilement, foulness or pollution. Pollutions/Defilement refers to what is on the outside (2 Peter 2:20). But genuine believers have escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust (2 Peter 1:4).

    Corruption is deeper than pollutions/defilements on the outside: it is decay on the inside.

    Having the knowledge of Jesus Christ does not save a person if there is no heart submission to that knowledge. The latter end is worse than the beginning for these men because rejecting this knowledge will make them more accountable at the judgment.
    The above scripture is plain to see. It says they escaped. The only way of escape is through faith (and a change happens). You cannot tell me for one moment that an unregenerate person can escape the corruption. For then what would have been the necessity of Christ? The word is VERY clear in this. They escaped. Then once again they were corrupted by false teachings, and led astray through these lusts.

    So you are twisting scripture to force fit your doctrine.

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    Default Re: Falling away from the Faith (it's possible)

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris1975 View Post
    The above scripture is plain to see. It says they escaped. The only way of escape is through faith (and a change happens). You cannot tell me for one moment that an unregenerate person can escape the corruption. For then what would have been the necessity of Christ? The word is VERY clear in this. They escaped. Then once again they were corrupted by false teachings, and led astray through these lusts.

    So you are twisting scripture to force fit your doctrine.
    *2 Peter 2:20 says they have escaped the "pollutions" (Strong's #3393) of the world. *It does not say they have escaped the corruption Strong's #5356 (different Greek word) that is in the world through lust or have become partakers of the divine nature, as it does in 2 Peter 1:4.

    It's you who is twisting scripture to force fit your doctrine. Go back and read post #38 again. I thoroughly refuted your argument.
    I'm not a bad guy. I'm just misunderstood.

    Galatians 6:14 - But God forbid that I should boast except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world.

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