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Thread: Falling away from the Faith (it's possible)

  1. #41
    Senior Member Stephen63's Avatar
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    Default Re: Falling away from the Faith (it's possible)

    Quote Originally Posted by mailmandan View Post
    Those who are truly born of God have received a new nature, a divine nature, and they have new and different appetites and desires. They have been transformed from pigs and dogs into sheep. The change is more than just cosmetic, as in 2 Peter 2:20. *These cleaned up on the outside dogs and pigs were never sheep.

    Compare 2 Peter 1:4 - "partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption - Strongs #5356 that is in the world through lust with 2 Peter 2:20 - with they escaped the pollutions - Strongs #3356 (different Greek word) of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, yet they are again entangled therein, and overcome. *Notice that 2 Peter 2:20 did not mention them being "partakers of the divine nature.

    Corruption (Strong's #5356) (to shrivel or wither, spoil , ruin , deprave, corrupt , defile, to destroy by means of corrupting, to spoil as does milk). Corruption - describes decomposition or rotting of an organism and the accompanying stench. The utter depravity of the fallen flesh and the resultant moral decomposition of the world opposed to God is driven by it sinful lusts or evil desires. Internal corruption.

    Pollutions/Defilements (Strongs #3393) ("pollutions", "filthy things", "contaminations", "world's filth") describes the state of being tainted or stained by evil and refers to impurity, impure, tainted, defilement, foulness or pollution. Pollutions/Defilement refers to what is on the outside (2 Peter 2:20). But genuine believers have escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust (2 Peter 1:4).

    Corruption is deeper than pollutions/defilements on the outside: it is decay on the inside.

    Having the knowledge of Jesus Christ does not save a person if there is no heart submission to that knowledge. The latter end is worse than the beginning for these men because rejecting this knowledge will make them more accountable at the judgment.
    John 14:15“If you love Me, you will keep My commandments. 16“I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may be with you forever; 17that is the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it does not see Him or know Him, but you know Him because He abides with you and will be in you.MacLaren's Expositions


    THE COMFORTER GIVEN

    John 14:16 - John 14:17
    .

    The ‘and’ at the beginning of these words shows us that they are continuous with and the consequence of what precedes. ‘If ye love Me, ye will keep My commandments, and I will pray . . . and He will send.’ Such is the series; but we must also remember that, as we have seen in previous sermons, the obedience spoken of in the clause before my text is itself treated as a consequence of some preceding steps. The ladder that is fixed upon earth and has its summit in heaven has for its rungs, first and lowest, ‘believe’; second, ‘love’; third, ‘obey.’ And thus the context carries us from the very basis of the Christian life up into its highest reward, even the larger gift to an obedient spirit of that Great Spirit, who is the Comforter and the Teacher.

    Matthew Poole's Commentary

    abide with you for ever: I shall be with you but for a while, but he shall abide with you to eternity (as some observe this word is constantly used by this evangelist). So that the promise of the Spirit is not to be restrained only to the apostles and their successors in the ministry, or to be understood only of those extraordinary gifts bestowed on the apostles and first ministers of the gospel; but to be extended further, both with reference to persons and influences: and without doubt the influences of the Spirit, both as to gifts and graces, both upon ministers and more private Christians, are much more plentiful since the sending of the Holy Ghost, after Christ’s ascension, in the days of Pentecost, than ever they were before: not as to particular persons; a David, a Solomon, or some particular persons, might have greater measures than any or the most have since had; but as to the generality of ministers and Christians. Doubtless, since the pouring out of the Spirit in the days of Pentecost, there have been greater measures of the gifts and graces of the Holy Spirit given out, and will be to the end of the world, than ever was in any age before Christ’s ascension; which is no more than what was prophesied, Isaiah 44:3 Joel 2:28, applied to the days of Pentecost, Acts 2:17, but not to be limited to that time or age, either for gifts or gracious habits: for as the extraordinary gifts and powers held in some degree after the apostles’ age, (if we may give any credit to ecclesiastical history), so both in those ages, and ever since, as to the generality both of ministers and Christians, (that is, such as are mentioned John 14:15, that love Christ, and keep his commandments), there have been fuller measures of gifts, of more constant, standing use for the church, such as those of knowledge and utterance, &c., and also of inward graces, than ever before was.

    The verse with means the Spirit will be with the church forever till the end, not the believer no matter what. It's a promise to the whole future church.

    You & G777 have taken it out of context & added your eisegesis to it to make it mean what you want.



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    Default Re: Falling away from the Faith (it's possible)

    Quote Originally Posted by mailmandan View Post
    Those who are truly born of God have received a new nature, a divine nature, and they have new and different appetites and desires. They have been transformed from pigs and dogs into sheep. The change is more than just cosmetic, as in 2 Peter 2:20. *These cleaned up on the outside dogs and pigs were never sheep.

    Compare 2 Peter 1:4 - "partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption - Strongs #5356 that is in the world through lust with 2 Peter 2:20 - with they escaped the pollutions - Strongs #3356 (different Greek word) of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, yet they are again entangled therein, and overcome. *Notice that 2 Peter 2:20 did not mention them being "partakers of the divine nature.

    Corruption (Strong's #5356) (to shrivel or wither, spoil , ruin , deprave, corrupt , defile, to destroy by means of corrupting, to spoil as does milk). Corruption - describes decomposition or rotting of an organism and the accompanying stench. The utter depravity of the fallen flesh and the resultant moral decomposition of the world opposed to God is driven by it sinful lusts or evil desires. Internal corruption.

    Pollutions/Defilements (Strongs #3393) ("pollutions", "filthy things", "contaminations", "world's filth") describes the state of being tainted or stained by evil and refers to impurity, impure, tainted, defilement, foulness or pollution. Pollutions/Defilement refers to what is on the outside (2 Peter 2:20). But genuine believers have escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust (2 Peter 1:4).

    Corruption is deeper than pollutions/defilements on the outside: it is decay on the inside.

    Having the knowledge of Jesus Christ does not save a person if there is no heart submission to that knowledge. The latter end is worse than the beginning for these men because rejecting this knowledge will make them more accountable at the judgment.
    3393. miasma Strong's Concordance

    miasma: a stain, defilement
    Original Word: μίασμα, ατος, τό
    Part of Speech: Noun, Neuter
    Transliteration: miasma
    Phonetic Spelling: (mee'-as-mah)
    Short Definition: pollution, defilement
    Definition: pollution, defilement; a stain.HELPS Word-studies

    Cognate: 3393 míasma(from 3392 /miaínō) pollution (spiritual stain) that results from vice, i.e. spiritually contaminating a person (used only in 2 Pet 2:20). See 3392 (miainō).

    NAS Exhaustive Concordance

    Word Origin
    from miainó
    Definition
    a stain, defilement
    NASB Translation
    defilements (1).Thayer's Greek Lexicon

    STRONGS NT 3393: μίασμα

    μίασμα, μιασματος, τό (μιαίνω), "that which defiles (cf. καύχημα, 2); defilement" (Vulg.coinquinatio): tropically, μιάσματα τοῦ κόσμου, vices the foulness of which contaminates one in his contact with the ungodly mass of mankind, 2 Peter 2:20. (Tragg., Antiphanes, Demosthenes, Polybius, Josephus, Plutarch; the Sept., Leviticus 7:8 (18); Jeremiah 39:34 (); Judith 9:2; 1 Macc. 13:50.)

    Strong's Exhaustive Concordance

    pollution, foul deedFrom miaino ("miasma"); (morally) foulness (properly, the effect) -- pollution.

    see GREEK miaino

    Forms and Transliterations

    μίασμά μιασματα μιάσματα μιασμάτων miasmata miásmataLinks

    Interlinear GreekInterlinear HebrewStrong's NumbersEnglishman's Greek ConcordanceEnglishman's Hebrew ConcordanceParallel Texts




    When something is contaminated, it needs the washing of the Word. How is it that this is possible without first believing on Christ? Or do you thing that a mere mental assertion is sufficient to wash clean the stains of all of your historical sins? Your theology is flawed. A defilement or contamination affects the vessel itself. This milk is sour. This water is poisoned.

    Therefore the only way for this person alluded to above to have been cleaned in the first place is through Jesus. In particular the blood of Jesus. Which is only received through faith. Or are you alluding to a partial work of the cross?

    Then secondly, if they were not saved in the first place, then why would it say in verse 20 that they would be worse off than the beginning? Because they knew the Lordship, and knew the Savior (verse 20) and then having known Him, rejected the way and were overcome again. This means there WAS deliverance at some point. And THEN they are overcome again. Deliverance is NOT possible without Christ (and nobody on CC would dare to make that statement, in either camp).

    So the scriptures are plain for all to see.

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    Default Re: Falling away from the Faith (it's possible)

    This below are the very clear scriptures on salvation that is in Christ. There is an abundance of them.

    Works-based salvationists unfortunately see every scripture about false prophets as being true Christians or any scripture about living by the flesh - they say people go to hell because of it.

    They always equate the warning scriptures as "going to hell" and getting booted out of Christ - the Holy Spirit leaves us and other such nonsense. Jesus said that the Holy Spirit will be with us and in us forever. John 14:16 - He is not a liar nor is He deceitful.

    It's a violation of the very clear abundant scriptures about Christ and it is in fact a denial of the work of Christ. They are making themselves to be their own savior.


    John 6:39-40 (NASB)
    39 "This is the will of Him who sent Me, that of all that He has given Me I lose nothing, but raise it up on the last day.

    40 "For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day."


    1 John 3:23 (NASB)
    23 This is His commandment, that we believe in the name of His Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, just as He commanded us.
    Last edited by Grace777x70; May 12th, 2017 at 10:02 AM.
    mailmandan and Rosemaryx like this.
    The new man in Christ - the new creation that is created in righteousness and

    holiness hears the heart voice of the Spirit and not an old head noise of the letter

    of the word. The Pharisees knew "bible knowledge" but they did not

    know God's heart and so they erred in really understanding what the

    scriptures were saying.


    The Lord wants us to look through His eyes and to live from His heart towards

    people, towards Him and towards ourselves as well.

  4. #44
    Senior Member mailmandan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Falling away from the Faith (it's possible)

    Quote Originally Posted by Stephen63 View Post
    John 14:15“If you love Me, you will keep My commandments. 16“I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may be with you forever; 17that is the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it does not see Him or know Him, but you know Him because He abides with you and will be in you.MacLaren's Expositions

    THE COMFORTER GIVEN

    John 14:16 - John 14:17
    .

    The ‘and’ at the beginning of these words shows us that they are continuous with and the consequence of what precedes. ‘If ye love Me, ye will keep My commandments, and I will pray . . . and He will send.’ Such is the series; but we must also remember that, as we have seen in previous sermons, the obedience spoken of in the clause before my text is itself treated as a consequence of some preceding steps. The ladder that is fixed upon earth and has its summit in heaven has for its rungs, first and lowest, ‘believe’; second, ‘love’; third, ‘obey.’ And thus the context carries us from the very basis of the Christian life up into its highest reward, even the larger gift to an obedient spirit of that Great Spirit, who is the Comforter and the Teacher.

    Matthew Poole's Commentary

    abide with you for ever: I shall be with you but for a while, but he shall abide with you to eternity (as some observe this word is constantly used by this evangelist). So that the promise of the Spirit is not to be restrained only to the apostles and their successors in the ministry, or to be understood only of those extraordinary gifts bestowed on the apostles and first ministers of the gospel; but to be extended further, both with reference to persons and influences: and without doubt the influences of the Spirit, both as to gifts and graces, both upon ministers and more private Christians, are much more plentiful since the sending of the Holy Ghost, after Christ’s ascension, in the days of Pentecost, than ever they were before: not as to particular persons; a David, a Solomon, or some particular persons, might have greater measures than any or the most have since had; but as to the generality of ministers and Christians. Doubtless, since the pouring out of the Spirit in the days of Pentecost, there have been greater measures of the gifts and graces of the Holy Spirit given out, and will be to the end of the world, than ever was in any age before Christ’s ascension; which is no more than what was prophesied, Isaiah 44:3 Joel 2:28, applied to the days of Pentecost, Acts 2:17, but not to be limited to that time or age, either for gifts or gracious habits: for as the extraordinary gifts and powers held in some degree after the apostles’ age, (if we may give any credit to ecclesiastical history), so both in those ages, and ever since, as to the generality both of ministers and Christians, (that is, such as are mentioned John 14:15, that love Christ, and keep his commandments), there have been fuller measures of gifts, of more constant, standing use for the church, such as those of knowledge and utterance, &c., and also of inward graces, than ever before was.

    The verse with means the Spirit will be with the church forever till the end, not the believer no matter what. It's a promise to the whole future church.
    I see that you completely ignored the truth that I shared in post #38. No surprise there. In regards to John 14:15, ‘If ye love Me, (demonstrative evidence) ye will keep My commandments.. We must not confuse DESCRIPTIVE passages of Scripture with prescriptive passages of Scripture. BTY - the Greek word for "keep" is "tereo" and means to guard, observe, watch over, properly maintain, keep intact. The reason I brought that up is because there are those in the sinless perfection camp who seem to believe that "keep" His commandments means sinless, perfect obedience to all of Christ's commandments 100% of the time, but that is not the case. John, using descriptive language, gives us a description of those who keep His commandments and those who do not keep His commandments. John clearly explains in 1 John 2:3 - By this we know that we have come to know Him, (demonstrative evidence) if we keep His commandments. 4 The one who says, "I have come to know Him," and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

    *Also, the church is the body of Christ, which is made up of all genuine born again Christians, (believers) so the Spirit will be with genuine born again Christians (believers) forever.
    ***Praise God!
    ***

    *Ephesians 1:13 - In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, (for/unto the day of redemption - Ephesians 4:30) 14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory.

    You & G777 have taken it out of context & added your eisegesis to it to make it mean what you want.
    How ironic. That's exactly what you do.

    I'm not a bad guy. I'm just misunderstood.

    Galatians 6:14 - But God forbid that I should boast except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world.

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    Default Re: Falling away from the Faith (it's possible)

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris1975 View Post
    3393. miasma Strong's Concordance

    miasma: a stain, defilement
    Original Word: μίασμα, ατος, τό
    Part of Speech: Noun, Neuter
    Transliteration: miasma
    Phonetic Spelling: (mee'-as-mah)
    Short Definition: pollution, defilement
    Definition: pollution, defilement; a stain.HELPS Word-studies

    Cognate: 3393 míasma(from 3392 /miaínō) pollution (spiritual stain) that results from vice, i.e. spiritually contaminating a person (used only in 2 Pet 2:20). See 3392 (miainō).

    NAS Exhaustive Concordance

    Word Origin
    from miainó
    Definition
    a stain, defilement
    NASB Translation
    defilements (1).Thayer's Greek Lexicon

    STRONGS NT 3393: μίασμα

    μίασμα, μιασματος, τό (μιαίνω), "that which defiles (cf. καύχημα, 2); defilement" (Vulg.coinquinatio): tropically, μιάσματα τοῦ κόσμου, vices the foulness of which contaminates one in his contact with the ungodly mass of mankind, 2 Peter 2:20. (Tragg., Antiphanes, Demosthenes, Polybius, Josephus, Plutarch; the Sept., Leviticus 7:8 (18); Jeremiah 39:34 (); Judith 9:2; 1 Macc. 13:50.)

    Strong's Exhaustive Concordance

    pollution, foul deedFrom miaino ("miasma"); (morally) foulness (properly, the effect) -- pollution.

    see GREEK miaino

    Forms and Transliterations

    μίασμά μιασματα μιάσματα μιασμάτων miasmata miásmataLinks

    Interlinear GreekInterlinear HebrewStrong's NumbersEnglishman's Greek ConcordanceEnglishman's Hebrew ConcordanceParallel Texts


    When something is contaminated, it needs the washing of the Word. How is it that this is possible without first believing on Christ? Or do you thing that a mere mental assertion is sufficient to wash clean the stains of all of your historical sins? Your theology is flawed. A defilement or contamination affects the vessel itself. This milk is sour. This water is poisoned.

    Therefore the only way for this person alluded to above to have been cleaned in the first place is through Jesus. In particular the blood of Jesus. Which is only received through faith. Or are you alluding to a partial work of the cross?

    Then secondly, if they were not saved in the first place, then why would it say in verse 20 that they would be worse off than the beginning? Because they knew the Lordship, and knew the Savior (verse 20) and then having known Him, rejected the way and were overcome again. This means there WAS deliverance at some point. And THEN they are overcome again. Deliverance is NOT possible without Christ (and nobody on CC would dare to make that statement, in either camp).

    So the scriptures are plain for all to see.
    I see that you continue to fight against the truth.

    Defilements (3393) ("pollutions", "filthy things", "contaminations", "world's filth") (miasma see study of related word miasmos) describes the state of being tainted or stained by evil and refers to ‘impurity, impure, tainted, defilement, foulness or pollution.'

    Corruption (Strong's #5356 - different Greek word) (to shrivel or wither, spoil , ruin , deprave, corrupt , defile, to destroy by means of corrupting, to spoil as does milk). Corruption - describes decomposition or rotting of an organism and the accompanying stench. The utter depravity of the fallen flesh and the resultant moral decomposition of the world opposed to God is driven by it sinful lusts or evil desires. Internal corruption.

    Defilement refers to what is on the outside. But true believers have escaped the corruption (Strong's #5356) that is in the world through lust (see 2 Peter 1:4).

    Corruption is much deeper than defilement on the outside: it is decay on the inside. True believers have received a new nature, a divine nature, and they have new and different appetites and desires. *They have been transformed from pigs and dogs into sheep.

    These false teachers in 2 Peter 2 need the washing of the Word because they were NEVER saved. They NEVER believed on Christ. It's your theology that is flawed as you continue to IGNORE that "pollutions" (2 Peter 2:20) and "corruption" (2 Peter 1:4) are two different Greek words with two different meanings. The false teachers in 2 Peter 2:20 were not partakers of the divine nature and did not escape the corruption that is in the world through lust, as we see in 2 Peter 1:4.

    Verse 20 says they would be worse off because they rejected Christ with full knowledge. This does not mean they were born again. We are held accountable for the light we are given. They were at a crossroad and having the knowledge of Jesus Christ does not save a person if there is no heart submission to this knowledge, which in their case, there obviously was not. Moral reformation (cleaned up on the outside) is no substitute for regeneration (cleaned up on the inside).

    The scriptures are plain for all to see, but unfortunately, you just don't have eyes to see.
    I'm not a bad guy. I'm just misunderstood.

    Galatians 6:14 - But God forbid that I should boast except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world.

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    Default Re: Falling away from the Faith (it's possible)

    Quote Originally Posted by mailmandan View Post
    I see that you continue to fight against the truth.

    Defilements (3393) ("pollutions", "filthy things", "contaminations", "world's filth") (miasma see study of related word miasmos) describes the state of being tainted or stained by evil and refers to ‘impurity, impure, tainted, defilement, foulness or pollution.'

    Corruption (Strong's #5356 - different Greek word) (to shrivel or wither, spoil , ruin , deprave, corrupt , defile, to destroy by means of corrupting, to spoil as does milk). Corruption - describes decomposition or rotting of an organism and the accompanying stench. The utter depravity of the fallen flesh and the resultant moral decomposition of the world opposed to God is driven by it sinful lusts or evil desires. Internal corruption.

    Defilement refers to what is on the outside. But true believers have escaped the corruption (Strong's #5356) that is in the world through lust (see 2 Peter 1:4).

    Corruption is much deeper than defilement on the outside: it is decay on the inside. True believers have received a new nature, a divine nature, and they have new and different appetites and desires. *They have been transformed from pigs and dogs into sheep.

    These false teachers in 2 Peter 2 need the washing of the Word because they were NEVER saved. They NEVER believed on Christ. It's your theology that is flawed as you continue to IGNORE that "pollutions" (2 Peter 2:20) and "corruption" (2 Peter 1:4) are two different Greek words with two different meanings. The false teachers in 2 Peter 2:20 were not partakers of the divine nature and did not escape the corruption that is in the world through lust, as we see in 2 Peter 1:4.

    Verse 20 says they would be worse off because they rejected Christ with full knowledge. This does not mean they were born again. We are held accountable for the light we are given. They were at a crossroad and having the knowledge of Jesus Christ does not save a person if there is no heart submission to this knowledge, which in their case, there obviously was not. Moral reformation (cleaned up on the outside) is no substitute for regeneration (cleaned up on the inside).

    The scriptures are plain for all to see, but unfortunately, you just don't have eyes to see.
    I see you haven't answered how these defilements (3393) were removed? How did they escape without faith? Some questions for you to cover above. Scroll back.

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    Default Re: Falling away from the Faith (it's possible)

    OK, there was this movement in the church against people accepting sin in their life, so they begin this teaching that if you sin you become lost and are no longer saved. Many people who sin do repent and come back to the Lord so they added to the teaching that you can be saved again. Anyway you had a lot of Christians going through life saved and then lost saved and then lost. Another group could see that this was not scriptural so they come up with the movement that if you are saved then you cannot be lost. The second movement did away with the false idea of saved and lost and saved and lost, however it created a new false idea, if you are saved you cannot be lost. Both ideas had some truth in them but both ideas were teaching something false. Christians should not accept sin in their life, however when a Christian sins they can be forgiven, also the bible teaches that a real Christian can really lose their salvation if they turn away from Christ and die in that condition.

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    Default Re: Falling away from the Faith (it's possible)

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris1975 View Post
    I see you haven't answered how these defilements (3393) were removed?
    Actually I did. They escaped the pollutions (not the corruption) of the world through the knowledge of Jesus Christ, which resulted in moral reformation (not regeneration) because there was no heart submission to this knowledge.

    How did they escape without faith? Some questions for you to cover above. Scroll back.
    It doesn't take genuine faith to escape the pollutions of the world and become a cleaned up on the outside dog/pig (2 Peter 2:20) but it takes genuine faith to escape the corruption of the world and become partakers of the divine nature/sheep (2 Peter 1:4).
    I'm not a bad guy. I'm just misunderstood.

    Galatians 6:14 - But God forbid that I should boast except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world.

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    Default Re: Falling away from the Faith (it's possible)

    Quote Originally Posted by mailmandan View Post
    Actually I did. They escaped the pollutions (not the corruption) of the world through the knowledge of Jesus Christ, which resulted in moral reformation (not regeneration) because there was no heart submission to this knowledge.

    It doesn't take genuine faith to escape the pollutions of the world and become a cleaned up on the outside dog/pig (2 Peter 2:20) but it takes genuine faith to escape the corruption of the world and become partakers of the divine nature/sheep (2 Peter 1:4).
    Moral reformation? Lol. Really is that your answer? Because moral reformation is impossible according to the bible. It is not possible to fulfill the law in your flesh. Nice try. Want to make something else up?

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    Default Re: Falling away from the Faith (it's possible)

    Quote Originally Posted by mailmandan View Post
    Actually I did. They escaped the pollutions (not the corruption) of the world through the knowledge of Jesus Christ, which resulted in moral reformation (not regeneration) because there was no heart submission to this knowledge.

    It doesn't take genuine faith to escape the pollutions of the world and become a cleaned up on the outside dog/pig (2 Peter 2:20) but it takes genuine faith to escape the corruption of the world and become partakers of the divine nature/sheep (2 Peter 1:4).
    Maybe the osaseers should get together and agree first before replying. Save this going forward for the screen dumps.

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    Default Re: Falling away from the Faith (it's possible)

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris1975 View Post
    Moral reformation? Lol. Really is that your answer? Because moral reformation is impossible according to the bible. It is not possible to fulfill the law in your flesh. Nice try. Want to make something else up?
    "Moral reformation" is a term used to describe someone who cleans themselves up (on the outside) but there is no regeneration on this inside. We see this all the time with people who are "religious, but not right with God." That is not impossible according to the Bible.
    I'm not a bad guy. I'm just misunderstood.

    Galatians 6:14 - But God forbid that I should boast except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world.

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    Default Re: Falling away from the Faith (it's possible)

    It is very clear that 2 Peter chapter 2 "in context" is talking about false teachers that creep in amongst us - NOT Christians. 2 Peter 2:1

    These are those that deny the Lord and His righteousness and try to establish their own righteousness.

    2 Peter 2:1 (NASB)
    1 But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will also be false teachers among you, who will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing swift destruction upon themselves.

    Even "if" they are Christians - it doesn't say that they go to hell - which is what the people that believe in lose of salvation believe. They are "reading " that into the text.

    Take up eating at McDonalds every day for all your meals and you will most likely die within that year. Does that change the fact that you were born into this world? Does that stop you from being a son or daughter?

    Why do we have so much unbelief in Christ's work on the cross and resurrection? Why are we constantly denying the very Lord that saved us in the first place?

    Satan and his horde do not come to the believer in Christ and say "Sin all you want" because no one would for fall for such a lie.

    Instead they come as "ministers of righteousness".

    They want us to live by our own D.I.Y. self-righteousness/holiness so that we will be not be depending on what Christ has done for us by grace through faith alone for salvation.

    This cuts us off from receiving the grace of God in our lives.

    2 Corinthians 11:14-15 (KJV)
    14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.

    15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works. ( notice that is "their" works )

    This below in 1 Peter 1:13 is what satan is really after...this is why he has false prophets/teachers in our midst.

    He wants us to fall away from grace and depend on our own performance and human will-power instead of what Christ has done in His finished work on the cross and resurrection.

    1 Peter 1:13
    13 Therefore, prepare your minds for action, keep sober in spirit, fix your hope completely on the grace being brought to you at the revelation of Jesus Christ.


    The new man in Christ - the new creation that is created in righteousness and

    holiness hears the heart voice of the Spirit and not an old head noise of the letter

    of the word. The Pharisees knew "bible knowledge" but they did not

    know God's heart and so they erred in really understanding what the

    scriptures were saying.


    The Lord wants us to look through His eyes and to live from His heart towards

    people, towards Him and towards ourselves as well.

  13. #53
    Senior Member Grace777x70's Avatar
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    Default Re: Falling away from the Faith (it's possible)

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris1975 View Post
    Moral reformation? Lol. Really is that your answer? Because moral reformation is impossible according to the bible. It is not possible to fulfill the law in your flesh. Nice try. Want to make something else up?
    Every religion in the world has good moral living as it's standard and there is a religion of Christianity too that tries to mimics the life of Christ by what they do or don't do. It's the world's belief system and they are all eating from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

    Works-righteousness belief systems are based on this very same principle and are actually denying the Lord Himself and what He has already done for them.
    The new man in Christ - the new creation that is created in righteousness and

    holiness hears the heart voice of the Spirit and not an old head noise of the letter

    of the word. The Pharisees knew "bible knowledge" but they did not

    know God's heart and so they erred in really understanding what the

    scriptures were saying.


    The Lord wants us to look through His eyes and to live from His heart towards

    people, towards Him and towards ourselves as well.

  14. #54
    Senior Member mailmandan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Falling away from the Faith (it's possible)

    Quote Originally Posted by Grace777x70 View Post
    Every religion in the world has good moral living as it's standard and there is a religion of Christianity too that tries to mimics the life of Christ by what they do or don't do. It's the world's belief system and they are all eating from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

    Works-righteousness belief systems are based on this very same principle and are actually denying the Lord Himself and what He has already done for them.
    Amen! There are genuine Christians and there are "nominal" Christians; there are genuine believers and there are "make" believers.
    I'm not a bad guy. I'm just misunderstood.

    Galatians 6:14 - But God forbid that I should boast except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world.

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    Default Re: Falling away from the Faith (it's possible)

    Quote Originally Posted by Grace777x70 View Post
    It is very clear that 2 Peter chapter 2 "in context" is talking about false teachers that creep in amongst us - NOT Christians. 2 Peter 2:1

    These are those that deny the Lord and His righteousness and try to establish their own righteousness.

    2 Peter 2:1 (NASB)
    1 But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will also be false teachers among you, who will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing swift destruction upon themselves.

    Even "if" they are Christians - it doesn't say that they go to hell - which is what the people that believe in lose of salvation believe. They are "reading " that into the text.

    Take up eating at McDonalds every day for all your meals and you will most likely die within that year. Does that change the fact that you were born into this world? Does that stop you from being a son or daughter?

    Why do we have so much unbelief in Christ's work on the cross and resurrection? Why are we constantly denying the very Lord that saved us in the first place?

    Satan and his horde do not come to the believer in Christ and say "Sin all you want" because no one would for fall for such a lie.

    Instead they come as "ministers of righteousness".

    They want us to live by our own D.I.Y. self-righteousness/holiness so that we will be not be depending on what Christ has done for us by grace through faith alone for salvation.

    This cuts us off from receiving the grace of God in our lives.

    2 Corinthians 11:14-15 (KJV)
    14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.

    15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works. ( notice that is "their" works )

    This below in 1 Peter 1:13 is what satan is really after...this is why he has false prophets/teachers in our midst.

    He wants us to fall away from grace and depend on our own performance and human will-power instead of what Christ has done in His finished work on the cross and resurrection.

    1 Peter 1:13
    13 Therefore, prepare your minds for action, keep sober in spirit, fix your hope completely on the grace being brought to you at the revelation of Jesus Christ.


    You have missed the context. Your very first statement is wrong, and therefore the rest of your conclusion. There is a change in verse 18:

    And by the way, the false teachers and prophets mentioned in verse 1 are the ones leading astray believers from the faith (in verses 18 - 22). Do you see where the change happens?

    Here's a clue: 18 For when they <false teachers> speak great swelling words of emptiness, they <false teachers> allure through the lusts of the flesh, through lewdness, the ones <the believers> who have actually escaped[d] from those who live in error. 19 While they <false teachers> promise them <the believers> liberty, they themselves are slaves of corruption; for by whom a person is overcome, by him also he is brought into bondage.

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    Default Re: Falling away from the Faith (it's possible)

    Quote Originally Posted by Grace777x70 View Post
    Every religion in the world has good moral living as it's standard and there is a religion of Christianity too that tries to mimics the life of Christ by what they do or don't do. It's the world's belief system and they are all eating from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

    Works-righteousness belief systems are based on this very same principle and are actually denying the Lord Himself and what He has already done for them.
    Nice try. But the scriptures are clear. They ESCAPED. Not an illusion of escape. They really did escape. But they allowed false teachers to once again speak into their lives, and they were led astray. Away from the faith. Allowed for the lusts of the flesh - as the passage indicates (verse 18)

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    Default Re: Falling away from the Faith (it's possible)

    Quote Originally Posted by mailmandan View Post
    Amen! There are genuine Christians and there are "nominal" Christians; there are genuine believers and there are "make" believers.
    ^^ I can agree to that statement
    mailmandan likes this.

  18. #58
    Senior Member Grace777x70's Avatar
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    Default Re: Falling away from the Faith (it's possible)

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris1975 View Post
    You have missed the context. Your very first statement is wrong, and therefore the rest of your conclusion. There is a change in verse 18:

    And by the way, the false teachers and prophets mentioned in verse 1 are the ones leading astray believers from the faith (in verses 18 - 22). Do you see where the change happens?

    Here's a clue: 18 For when they <false teachers> speak great swelling words of emptiness, they <false teachers> allure through the lusts of the flesh, through lewdness, the ones <the believers> who have actually escaped[d] from those who live in error. 19 While they <false teachers> promise them <the believers> liberty, they themselves are slaves of corruption; for by whom a person is overcome, by him also he is brought into bondage.
    And those false teachers are the very ones denying the work of the Lord Jesus Christ. All works-based self-righteousness belief systems are the exact same at the core - including the lose your salvation one. It's eating from the wrong tree and so it brings forth death.

    Preach and teach the love and grace of God in Christ which is the gospel message and then real Christians will have the nutrients needed to walk free with His life manifesting to a hurt and dying world that needs to see our Father for who He truly is.

    We have to build on Christ Himself first. Works-based religions all are denying the very Lord that has saved them because they are relying on their own works.

    It is very simply unbelief in Christ and what He has done and is masked by the "appearance" of good - but it is just eating from the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.
    Last edited by Grace777x70; May 12th, 2017 at 11:43 AM.
    The new man in Christ - the new creation that is created in righteousness and

    holiness hears the heart voice of the Spirit and not an old head noise of the letter

    of the word. The Pharisees knew "bible knowledge" but they did not

    know God's heart and so they erred in really understanding what the

    scriptures were saying.


    The Lord wants us to look through His eyes and to live from His heart towards

    people, towards Him and towards ourselves as well.

  19. #59
    Senior Member Stephen63's Avatar
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    Default Re: Falling away from the Faith (it's possible)

    Quote Originally Posted by mailmandan View Post
    Amen! There are genuine Christians and there are "nominal" Christians; there are genuine believers and there are "make" believers.
    There's no "make believers" in scripture.

    You're full of something like G777, but it's not the Spirit.

  20. #60
    Senior Member mailmandan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Falling away from the Faith (it's possible)

    Quote Originally Posted by Stephen63 View Post
    There's no "make believers" in scripture.
    There certainly are. Such people "profess" to know God, but in works they deny Him, being abominable, disobedient, and disqualified for every good work (Titus 1:16). Such people have a said faith, not a real faith. It's not difficult to find such people in various false religions and cults that claim to be Christian.

    You're full of something like G777, but it's not the Spirit.
    That judgment call is above your pay grade. Why so hateful and bitter?
    I'm not a bad guy. I'm just misunderstood.

    Galatians 6:14 - But God forbid that I should boast except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world.

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