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Thread: Seducing spirits and doctrines of demons?

  1. #21
    Senior Member Grace777x70's Avatar
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    Default Re: Seducing spirits and doctrines of demons?

    Quote Originally Posted by SovereignGrace View Post
    In the OP's video, one guy was 'in the spirit' and acting like he was smoking a joint. He was equating spiritual euphoria with smoking a joint.

    And the reality is that the guy that was using the smoking of a joint to relate about the joy of the Lord - has been not allowed to teach at Bethel Church by the leadership there and Bill Johnson is the lead pastor there.

    I believe this guy has since stopped this sort of thing as it was years ago when this happened. I too thought it was out of line.

    So, Bill Johnson is not associated with him as has been slanderously accused of nor endorses this type of relating to the Spirit.
    Last edited by Grace777x70; May 12th, 2017 at 06:43 PM.
    stonesoffire likes this.
    The new man in Christ - the new creation that is created in righteousness and

    holiness hears the heart voice of the Spirit and not an old head noise of the letter

    of the word. The Pharisees knew "bible knowledge" but they did not

    know God's heart and so they erred in really understanding what the

    scriptures were saying.


    The Lord wants us to look through His eyes and to live from His heart towards

    people, towards Him and towards ourselves as well.

  2. #22
    Senior Member preacher4truth's Avatar
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    Default Re: Seducing spirits and doctrines of demons?

    Quote Originally Posted by Grace777x70 View Post
    The famous scripture that is used from those who believe we lose salvation is 1 Tim. 4:1 - but let's look and see what it is really saying "in context".

    They usually love to just quote the part about seducing spirits and doctrines of devils ( which they usually apply to something they don't believe in but some one else might ).

    Let's see what Paul was actually saying "departing from the faith actually is".
    Yes you're saying what is going on in the video is "of God". We get it. And those who can see by discernment that what is going on in the video is not of God are wrongly categorized as people "who don't like" what is going on. That's generally the excuse, they "just don't like it" or "it's a differing opinion".

    Yes, we get that too, but it doesn't fly and is a cop out to defend the wolves in the midst of the sheep.

    On seducing spirits and doctrines of devils:

    giving heed to seducing spirits; either to doctrines which are of a deceiving nature; or to men who profess to have the Spirit of God, and have not, but are evil men and seducers, deceiving, and being deceived; that lie in wait to deceive, and handle the word of God deceitfully; and by attending on the ministry of such persons, through hearing them, and conversing with them, the defection was to begin and spread; and therefore such should be carefully avoided, and their ministry shunned; nor should they be received, nor bid God speed.


    And doctrines of devils; such as are devised by devils, as all damnable doctrines be; and all lying ones, for the devil is the father of them; and as are all the false doctrines introduced by antichrist, for his coming was after the working of Satan; and particularly those doctrines of his concerning worshipping of angels, and saints departed, may be called the doctrines of devils, or of "demons"; being much the same with the demon worship among the Heathens, of which the devil was the inventor: unless by doctrines of devils should be meant the doctrines of men, who for their cunning and sophistry, for their lies and hypocrisy, for their malice, and murdering of the souls of men, are comparable to devils. - John Gill.

    Now for the further context, it is well known that the RCC is tied in with Charismatic false teachings. So, the context of this passage applies to those being mislead, as in the video. It also shows that other false teachers will forbid marriage and abstinence from foods. It is an ongoing description of not just one type of false system, but the traits of them all, therefore one need not also teach forbidding marriage and abstaining from food for the "shoe to fit". Therefore this passage is showing what apostasy looks like, and the video is showing it in action. Rome is just as guilty and is apostate as well as thius in the video.

    Departing from "the faith" is this: It is a departure of the structure of sound doctrine, the teachings of Scripture. It is God's "system of theology". Departing from this is "anything goes" and twisting of texts to support behaviors as in the video.

    It would be really naìve to think that just because they do not forbid marriage, or teach to abstain from meats, that they are not teaching doctrines of demons. Also, 1 John 4:1 following cannot mean that we are to not test the spirits as long as they profess Jesus came in the flesh. That's absurd, shallow, and foolish. Many cults teach the fact of Christ's first advent in the flesh, yet are teaching false doctrine. This is exactly representative of "doctrines of demons", it follows Satan in mixing some truth with error. Thus we don't need a "proof text" to discern that what is going on in the video isn't of God. Those of us who adhere to sound doctrine can deduce as much from the Scriptures, "having their senses trained..." Hebrew 5:11-14.
    ForthAngel likes this.
    People are offended that God is God.

    Oh, my brethren! bold-hearted men are always called mean-spirited by cowards. - Charles Spurgeon

    I threw out the writings of Moses because he killed that Egyptian guy.

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    Senior Member preacher4truth's Avatar
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    Default Re: Seducing spirits and doctrines of demons?

    Quote Originally Posted by Meggido View Post
    Philippians 1.12-19
    Christ isn't being preached in that video.
    Stephen63 and SovereignGrace like this.
    People are offended that God is God.

    Oh, my brethren! bold-hearted men are always called mean-spirited by cowards. - Charles Spurgeon

    I threw out the writings of Moses because he killed that Egyptian guy.

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    Senior Member preacher4truth's Avatar
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    Default Re: Seducing spirits and doctrines of demons?

    Quote Originally Posted by Marano View Post
    It seems a lot that goes on in the charismatic movement as seen in the video is not biblical, therefore I cannot agree with them.

    I'm pentecostal myself so I believe in manifestation of the holy spirit in various forms, but they always bring repentance and a sense of humility before a holy God, not what seems to go on on the video.
    Fair enough...
    People are offended that God is God.

    Oh, my brethren! bold-hearted men are always called mean-spirited by cowards. - Charles Spurgeon

    I threw out the writings of Moses because he killed that Egyptian guy.

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    Senior Member preacher4truth's Avatar
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    Default Re: Seducing spirits and doctrines of demons?

    Quote Originally Posted by ForthAngel View Post
    The strange fire conference had a nice panel of preachers that show the utter fallacy of the movements pushing this type of behavior. Here is the intro to the conference:

    Yes, I watched all of that, and read the book. John MacArthur nailed that false teaching, and the outcry against him proved it. That's when you know you've hit your target when the belly-aching begins, lol!
    SovereignGrace likes this.
    People are offended that God is God.

    Oh, my brethren! bold-hearted men are always called mean-spirited by cowards. - Charles Spurgeon

    I threw out the writings of Moses because he killed that Egyptian guy.

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    Default Re: Seducing spirits and doctrines of demons?

    Quote Originally Posted by SovereignGrace View Post
    There's a 'spirit' in that vid, that's for sure.
    Meh, you "just don't like it" and they only have "a differing opinion".

    Thanks for standing for the truth my brother!
    SovereignGrace likes this.
    People are offended that God is God.

    Oh, my brethren! bold-hearted men are always called mean-spirited by cowards. - Charles Spurgeon

    I threw out the writings of Moses because he killed that Egyptian guy.

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    Senior Member preacher4truth's Avatar
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    Default Re: Seducing spirits and doctrines of demons?

    Quote Originally Posted by ForthAngel View Post
    Not just simple blasphemy, this stuff blasphemes the Holy Spirit. It's blasphemy of the highest order.
    Yes, indeed it is.
    SovereignGrace likes this.
    People are offended that God is God.

    Oh, my brethren! bold-hearted men are always called mean-spirited by cowards. - Charles Spurgeon

    I threw out the writings of Moses because he killed that Egyptian guy.

  8. #28
    Senior Member Grace777x70's Avatar
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    Default Re: Seducing spirits and doctrines of demons?

    I suppose that we all could have "snippets" of things done in all of our lives and people would say that we are not preaching the gospel.

    We could look at the behavior of any of us in these forums and see that the gospel is not being preached but instead malice, the slandering of others in the body of Christ and the insulting them and calling them names is being done in some cases.

    The new man in Christ - the new creation that is created in righteousness and

    holiness hears the heart voice of the Spirit and not an old head noise of the letter

    of the word. The Pharisees knew "bible knowledge" but they did not

    know God's heart and so they erred in really understanding what the

    scriptures were saying.


    The Lord wants us to look through His eyes and to live from His heart towards

    people, towards Him and towards ourselves as well.

  9. #29
    Senior Member preacher4truth's Avatar
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    Default Re: Seducing spirits and doctrines of demons?

    Quote Originally Posted by CS1 View Post
    hey Soverigngrace

    could you please provide me the proof of your statement please " To endorse this movement is horrible. Smoking weed in the Spirit? Blasphemy."
    Soooo...you are unable to discern "smoking marijuana in the Spirit" as blasphemous? WOW!
    People are offended that God is God.

    Oh, my brethren! bold-hearted men are always called mean-spirited by cowards. - Charles Spurgeon

    I threw out the writings of Moses because he killed that Egyptian guy.

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    Default Re: Seducing spirits and doctrines of demons?

    Quote Originally Posted by SovereignGrace View Post
    Brother, words mean squat if one's all over the place in one's theology. He's endorsing a blasphemous movement.
    He got the Toronto Blasphemy, so, anything goes.
    People are offended that God is God.

    Oh, my brethren! bold-hearted men are always called mean-spirited by cowards. - Charles Spurgeon

    I threw out the writings of Moses because he killed that Egyptian guy.

  11. #31
    Senior Member preacher4truth's Avatar
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    Default Re: Seducing spirits and doctrines of demons?

    Quote Originally Posted by CS1 View Post
    ok thank you
    Thank God you're on track here, I feared your prior questioning. My apologies.
    SovereignGrace likes this.
    People are offended that God is God.

    Oh, my brethren! bold-hearted men are always called mean-spirited by cowards. - Charles Spurgeon

    I threw out the writings of Moses because he killed that Egyptian guy.

  12. #32
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    Default Re: Seducing spirits and doctrines of demons?

    Quote Originally Posted by Marano View Post
    It seems a lot that goes on in the charismatic movement as seen in the video is not biblical, therefore I cannot agree with them.

    I'm pentecostal myself so I believe in manifestation of the holy spirit in various forms, but they always bring repentance and a sense of humility before a holy God, not what seems to go on on the video.


    Seriously?! Pentecostal?? Ok I give up.I cant understand anything

  13. #33
    Senior Member SovereignGrace's Avatar
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    Default Re: Seducing spirits and doctrines of demons?

    Quote Originally Posted by Grace777x70 View Post

    And the reality is that the guy that was using the smoking of a joint to relate about the joy of the Lord - has been not allowed to teach at Bethel Church by the leadership there and Bill Johnson is the lead pastor there.

    I believe this guy has since stopped this sort of thing as it was years ago when this happened. I too thought it was out of line.

    So, Bill Johnson is not associated with him as has been slanderously accused of nor endorses this type of relating to the Spirit.
    He was in that video on stage with them, showing ppl in HIS church HE pastors doing this sort of ungodly practice. And he doesn't endorse it? Doesn't pass the smell test.

    Now, if he has decided to cease and desist, great.

    How old is that video?
    Stephen63 likes this.
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    God saved you for Himself; God saved you by Himself; God saved you from Himself
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    Default Re: Seducing spirits and doctrines of demons?

    Quote Originally Posted by SovereignGrace View Post
    He was in that video on stage with them, showing ppl in HIS church HE pastors doing this sort of ungodly practice. And he doesn't endorse it? Doesn't pass the smell test.

    Now, if he has decided to cease and desist, great.

    How old is that video?
    The toking the Holy Ghost guy is still into all of this. You can see all the mysticism he pushes on his web site.
    Look now to our adversaries (I mean the priesthood, at whose beck and pleasure others
    ply their enmity against us), and consider with me for a little by what zeal they are actuated.
    The true religion which is delivered in the Scriptures, and which all ought to hold, they
    readily permit both themselves and others to be ignorant of, to neglect and despise;

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    Senior Member Grace777x70's Avatar
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    Default Re: Seducing spirits and doctrines of demons?

    Correct me if I am wrong - but the guy was not really smoking weed. It looked like an outrages analogy of trying to show the joy of the Lord.

    It was for sure a stupid thing which I believe this particular guy has since stopped. It was a childish thing to do for sure. I believe he has grown up some now. ( at least I hope so )

    Again Bill Johnson and Bethel Church was against this and forbid him from coming to the church so they are not associated.
    The new man in Christ - the new creation that is created in righteousness and

    holiness hears the heart voice of the Spirit and not an old head noise of the letter

    of the word. The Pharisees knew "bible knowledge" but they did not

    know God's heart and so they erred in really understanding what the

    scriptures were saying.


    The Lord wants us to look through His eyes and to live from His heart towards

    people, towards Him and towards ourselves as well.

  16. #36
    Senior Member preacher4truth's Avatar
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    Default Re: Seducing spirits and doctrines of demons?

    Quote Originally Posted by SovereignGrace View Post
    He was in that video on stage with them, showing ppl in HIS church HE pastors doing this sort of ungodly practice. And he doesn't endorse it? Doesn't pass the smell test.

    Now, if he has decided to cease and desist, great.

    How old is that video?
    Um, I watched a video where Bill Johnson was there enjoying the getting drunk with the Spirit. It's all the same thing. All is blasphemy.
    People are offended that God is God.

    Oh, my brethren! bold-hearted men are always called mean-spirited by cowards. - Charles Spurgeon

    I threw out the writings of Moses because he killed that Egyptian guy.

  17. #37
    Senior Member preacher4truth's Avatar
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    Default Re: Seducing spirits and doctrines of demons?

    Quote Originally Posted by SovereignGrace View Post
    He was in that video on stage with them, showing ppl in HIS church HE pastors doing this sort of ungodly practice. And he doesn't endorse it? Doesn't pass the smell test.

    Now, if he has decided to cease and desist, great.

    How old is that video?
    If his repentance of that satanic blasphemy doesn't far outweigh his former endorsement of it then he is still guilty. There is no way you can just soft pedal away from that nonsense.
    Stephen63 and ForthAngel like this.
    People are offended that God is God.

    Oh, my brethren! bold-hearted men are always called mean-spirited by cowards. - Charles Spurgeon

    I threw out the writings of Moses because he killed that Egyptian guy.

  18. #38
    Senior Member SovereignGrace's Avatar
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    Default Re: Seducing spirits and doctrines of demons?

    Quote Originally Posted by Grace777x70 View Post
    Correct me if I am wrong - but the guy was not really smoking weed. It looked like an outrages analogy of trying to show the joy of the Lord.

    It was for sure a stupid thing which I believe this particular guy has since stopped. It was a childish thing to do for sure. I believe he has grown up some now. ( at least I hope so )

    Again Bill Johnson and Bethel Church was against this and forbid him from coming to the church so they are not associated.
    Then why were ppl in HIS church getting drunk in the 'spirit'?

    Your defense of him is not at all surprising, btw.
    I have given God countless reasons not to love me. None of them has been strong enough to change Him.
    Paul Washer

    Instead of telling them God has a wonderful plan for their life - tell them who God is.
    Paul Washer

    God saved you for Himself; God saved you by Himself; God saved you from Himself
    .
    Paul Washer

  19. #39
    Senior Member Grace777x70's Avatar
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    Default Re: Seducing spirits and doctrines of demons?

    Quote Originally Posted by SovereignGrace View Post
    He was in that video on stage with them, showing ppl in HIS church HE pastors doing this sort of ungodly practice. And he doesn't endorse it? Doesn't pass the smell test.

    Now, if he has decided to cease and desist, great.

    How old is that video?
    It looks like the video itself was made back in 2010 - so it is 7 years old. When this "Toking" childish thing took place a few years before that - so I would say the Toking fiasco itself is about 10 years old now.
    The new man in Christ - the new creation that is created in righteousness and

    holiness hears the heart voice of the Spirit and not an old head noise of the letter

    of the word. The Pharisees knew "bible knowledge" but they did not

    know God's heart and so they erred in really understanding what the

    scriptures were saying.


    The Lord wants us to look through His eyes and to live from His heart towards

    people, towards Him and towards ourselves as well.

  20. #40
    Senior Member ForthAngel's Avatar
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    Default Re: Seducing spirits and doctrines of demons?

    Quote Originally Posted by Grace777x70 View Post
    It looks like the video itself was made back in 2010 - so it is 7 years old. When this "Toking" childish thing took place a few years before that - so I would say the Toking fiasco itself is about 10 years old now.
    They still push un-Christian mysticism. Sons of Thunder

    Bethel Church is still eat up with false gospel and bizarre "manifestations" as well.
    Look now to our adversaries (I mean the priesthood, at whose beck and pleasure others
    ply their enmity against us), and consider with me for a little by what zeal they are actuated.
    The true religion which is delivered in the Scriptures, and which all ought to hold, they
    readily permit both themselves and others to be ignorant of, to neglect and despise;

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