You will know them by their fruits

[Blain]

Matthew 7:15-20New King James Version (NKJV)
You Will Know Them by Their Fruits

15 “Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves. 16 You will know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes from thornbushes or figs from thistles? 17 Even so, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Therefore by their fruits you will know them.
Jesus quoted specifically about prophets but this verse is also the universal quote for recognizing real and fake believers which i suppose makes sense as it fits that area perfectly.

But many believe that only God knows the heart and so we cannot say who is saved or not and that is true I can easily see how that makes sense, however there is also a part of me that disagrees with it. The scriptures also specifically say to test all spirits and discernment of spirits is a spiritual gift as well. Maybe i am wrong in thinking this but I am not comfortable just saying only god knows the heart. What does everyone have to say about this?

 

[Grace777x70]

Good questions Blain.

Jesus also said that there would be tares in with the wheat and to not to uproot them in case we uproot the wheat too. Jesus said that the angels will separate them out at the end of the age.

Whether they are unbelievers in our midst ( every church assembly has unbelievers in it in some of their meetings ) or Christians living by the flesh is up to God to say and He does know our hearts for sure.

I personally think we can "mark" them that have foul behavior and if they still persist in doing this bad behavior - then to avoid them just like Paul says in Romans 16:17

Romans 16:17 (KJV)
[SUP]17 [/SUP] Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.

We can easily get entangled with them and have this situation arise too.

Hebrews 12:15 (NASB)
[SUP]15 [/SUP] See to it that no one comes short of the grace of God; that no root of bitterness springing up causes trouble, and by it many be defiled;

The verses before this is talking about behavior and bad behavior not set apart ( sanctification ) means that people will not see the Lord in us.

Hebrews 12:14 (NASB)
[SUP]14 [/SUP] Pursue peace with all men, and the sanctification without which no one will see the Lord.

 

[Willie-T]

Matthew 7:15-20New King James Version (NKJV)
You Will Know Them by Their Fruits

15 “Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves. 16 You will know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes from thornbushes or figs from thistles? 17 Even so, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Therefore by their fruits you will know them.
Jesus quoted specifically about prophets but this verse is also the universal quote for recognizing real and fake believers which i suppose makes sense as it fits that area perfectly.

But many believe that only God knows the heart and so we cannot say who is saved or not and that is true I can easily see how that makes sense, however there is also a part of me that disagrees with it. The scriptures also specifically say to test all spirits and discernment of spirits is a spiritual gift as well. Maybe i am wrong in thinking this but I am not comfortable just saying only god knows the heart. What does everyone have to say about this?

As many people do, you're seeming to make the mistake of concluding "fruit" is something we can somehow sense that a person 'is.' Fruit is what is produced, and not what we feel about someone.

Even if WE pride ourselves on thinking we are "knowing" a person's 'fruit', it is only somewhere on down the line, in the course of time that the results of their influence can ever be known. Sure, we may not like what Mr. TV Man says.... and swear it is heresy....but if people come to Christ through his teachings, are we so presumptuous as to say that those people couldn't possibly be the infamous "REAL" Christians so many of us constantly talk about so knowingly?

 

[Gabriel2020]

the spirit of discernment is the gift of the holy spirit ,given to recognize demonic activity in another person or groups of people. their actions are unnatural,and not that of a person with a sound mind. Paul was good at it. in acts 16; 17. the woman who was a fortune teller.

 

[Blain]

As many people do, you're seeming to make the mistake of concluding "fruit" is something we can somehow sense that a person 'is.' Fruit is what is produced, and not what we feel about someone.

Even if WE pride ourselves on thinking we are "knowing" a person's 'fruit', it is only somewhere on down the line, in the course of time that the results of their influence can ever be known. Sure, we may not like what Mr. TV Man says.... and swear it is heresy....but if people come to Christ through his teachings, are we so presumptuous as to say that those people couldn't possibly be the infamous "REAL" Christians so many of us constantly talk about so knowingly?

Willie i think your misunderstanding me. I do not rely on how I (feel) about someone. I am someone who observes and ponders things I cannot trust on how I ( feel) about someone. Also i i think i can discern a persons fruit it is not from pride I simply observe a persons general behavior speech and the way they speak and act on a day to to day basis and use this as a base to logically discern the fruits they are lacking in and the fruits they are strong in and normally is not about if they are saved or not.

I only asked about this in this thread for help in understanding the questions i have asked myself it was not in any way to say I think I can decide if a person is saved or not as my understanding and insight is limited and can easily be altered in the wrong way

 

[Blain]

Good questions Blain.

Jesus also said that there would be tares in with the wheat and to not to uproot them in case we uproot the wheat too. Jesus said that the angels will separate them out at the end of the age.

Whether they are unbelievers in our midst ( every church assembly has unbelievers in it in some of their meetings ) or Christians living by the flesh is up to God to say and He does know our hearts for sure.

I personally think we can "mark" them that have foul behavior and if they still persist in doing this bad behavior - then to avoid them just like Paul says in Romans 16:17

Romans 16:17 (KJV)
[SUP]17 [/SUP] Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.

We can easily get entangled with them and have this situation arise too.

Hebrews 12:15 (NASB)
[SUP]15 [/SUP] See to it that no one comes short of the grace of God; that no root of bitterness springing up causes trouble, and by it many be defiled;

The verses before this is talking about behavior and bad behavior not set apart ( sanctification ) means that people will not see the Lord in us.

Hebrews 12:14 (NASB)
[SUP]14 [/SUP] Pursue peace with all men, and the sanctification without which no one will see the Lord.

Ty. This is what I needed to hear. See I can't trust my own understanding on this subject as it's not one i am insightful enough to comprehend fully on my own. Marking them makes much more sense as I do not think it is for me to decide who he has called his own but at the same time i am suspicious about certain things that seem to indicate a person being a false believer and tend to not really want to say anything about it but it still remains in the back of mind.

It is true that we do not want to accidentally say this wheat is actually a tare when in fact that wheat as really wheat

 

[Blain]

the spirit of discernment is the gift of the holy spirit ,given to recognize demonic activity in another person or groups of people. their actions are unnatural,and not that of a person with a sound mind. Paul was good at it. in acts 16; 17. the woman who was a fortune teller.

Ah i see, i thought it pertained to spirits of all kinds not just demonic

 

[Willie-T]

Willie i think your misunderstanding me. I do not rely on how I (feel) about someone. I am someone who observes and ponders things I cannot trust on how I ( feel) about someone. Also i i think i can discern a persons fruit it is not from pride I simply observe a persons general behavior speech and the way they speak and act on a day to to day basis and use this as a base to logically discern the fruits they are lacking in and the fruits they are strong in and normally is not about if they are saved or not.

I only asked about this in this thread for help in understanding the questions i have asked myself it was not in any way to say I think I can decide if a person is saved or not as my understanding and insight is limited and can easily be altered in the wrong way

Like I said, perceived personality traits are not fruit.

Fruit isn't seen within the person we are investigating for discrepancies in their preaching, and therefore 'discerned' like we are Spiritual magicians. Fruit is what continues to grow in other people, outside the initiator, and some time later. The fruit of Phillip preaching to the eunuch, was the establishment of Christianity in Ethiopia.

 

[Willie-T]

BTW.... I'm pretty sure the gift wasn't "The Spirit of Discernment", but rather "The Discernment of Spirits."

 

[Blain]

Like I said, perceived personality traits are not fruit.

Fruit isn't seen within the person we are investigating for discrepancies in their preaching, and therefore 'discerned' like we are Spiritual magicians. Fruit is what continues to grow in other people, outside the initiator, and some time later. The fruit of Phillip preaching to the eunuch, was the establishment of Christianity in Ethiopia.

Ok think about this then. Love is one of the fruits of the spirit, if you see someone who you have known for quite a while and they are always showing love in everything they do then are you not discerning the fruit of love in that person? Or Wisdom for instance, if you have a friend who you would say is wise and you say this because you see the wisdom in their words and actions on a day to day basis are you not discerning the wisdom in them? Even as a non believer you can discern the fruits of a person through common observation it is not like we are spiritual magicians or that we can see through eyes that no one else can it's called logical observation

 

[Willie-T]

Ok think about this then. Love is one of the fruits of the spirit, if you see someone who you have known for quite a while and they are always showing love in everything they do then are you not discerning the fruit of love in that person? Or Wisdom for instance, if you have a friend who you would say is wise and you say this because you see the wisdom in their words and actions on a day to day basis are you not discerning the wisdom in them? Even as a non believer you can discern the fruits of a person through common observation it is not like we are spiritual magicians or that we can see through eyes that no one else can it's called logical observation

Are we talking about how we observed all the love both Barry and Hillary showed? It looked like love, and even convinced a lot of people........ but let one of them become entangled in a scandal. I don't think you would see it reciprocated by too many people.


No, I think "discernment" is often just personal justification of our dislike for another.

 

[Blain]

No what you are thinking of is being judgemental the meaning of discernment is this
1.
the ability to judge well.
"an astonishing lack of discernment"
2.
(in Christian contexts) perception in the absence of judgment with a view to obtaining spiritual direction and understanding.
"without providing for a time of healing and discernment, there will be no hope of living through this present moment without a shattering of our common life.

To discern is not the same as to look down upon in judgment

 

[Marano]

That and I would also say the fruit of the spirit is evidence of someone's nature, if they have the holy spirit they'll have the fruit of the spirit.

 

[dcontroversal]

The context ia applied to false prophets.....why embellish it?

 

[Blain]

The context ia applied to false prophets.....why embellish it?

I already spoke of that, but even though Jesus was speaking of prophets specifically the same thing can be said of a Christian even though it is not directly spoken about and I was needing help in understanding

 

[pottersclay]

Ok think about this then. Love is one of the fruits of the spirit, if you see someone who you have known for quite a while and they are always showing love in everything they do then are you not discerning the fruit of love in that person? Or Wisdom for instance, if you have a friend who you would say is wise and you say this because you see the wisdom in their words and actions on a day to day basis are you not discerning the wisdom in them? Even as a non believer you can discern the fruits of a person through common observation it is not like we are spiritual magicians or that we can see through eyes that no one else can it's called logical observation

Blain, my brother before we go any further please read the scripture again.....slowly.

 

[pottersclay]

But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law. And those who are Christ's have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit. Let us not become conceited, provoking one another, envying one another.

This is the fruit of the spirit (singular) not fruits. If a person is born of the spirit he will have these attributes.

 

[pottersclay]

​ Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I have become sounding brass or a clanging cymbal. And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, but have not love, it profits me nothing.

These are gifts

 

[Ariel82]

Matthew 7:15-20New King James Version (NKJV)
You Will Know Them by Their Fruits

15 “Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves. 16 You will know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes from thornbushes or figs from thistles? 17 Even so, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Therefore by their fruits you will know them.
Jesus quoted specifically about prophets but this verse is also the universal quote for recognizing real and fake believers which i suppose makes sense as it fits that area perfectly.

But many believe that only God knows the heart and so we cannot say who is saved or not and that is true I can easily see how that makes sense, however there is also a part of me that disagrees with it. The scriptures also specifically say to test all spirits and discernment of spirits is a spiritual gift as well. Maybe i am wrong in thinking this but I am not comfortable just saying only god knows the heart. What does everyone have to say about this?

If they don't display the fruits of the spirit and heavenly wisdom, I don't trust what they say about scripture but still try to love them because God says love even our enemies.

 

[pottersclay]

If they don't display the fruits of the spirit and heavenly wisdom, I don't trust what they say about scripture but still try to love them because God says love even our enemies.

Fruit not fruits ....that is a well mis read scripture.