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Thread: The Gift of Tongues: Don't Get It TWISTED

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    Default Re: The Gift of Tongues: Don't Get It TWISTED

    Quote Originally Posted by Ariel82 View Post
    If you pray to God in unknown tongues, you should also pray that God reveal understanding to what you say and you can interpret. Otherwise it doesn't edify anyone.


    However i still hold this type of prayer should be done in private or at the very least small group sessions.

    Also I don't trust that the demonic won't use this as a weakness to fool the saints.

    I like Paul will take 5 known words over 10000 unknown tongues.
    *****

    1 Co 14
    3Wherefore let him that speaketh in an unknown tongue pray that he may interpret. 14For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful. 15What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also. 16Else when thou shalt bless with the spirit, how shall he that occupieth the room of the unlearned say Amen at thy giving of thanks, seeing he understandeth not what thou sayest? 17For thou verily givest thanks well, but the other is not edified. 18I thank my God, I speak with tongues more than ye all: 19Yet in the church I had rather speak five words with my understanding, that by my voice I might teach others also, than ten thousand words in an unknown tongue.
    I agree.
    Act 2 was never about tongues on the Day of Pentecost..... it was about the gift of prophecy. Joel stated matter-of-factly that all believers when receiving the baptism would prophesy.

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    Default Re: The Gift of Tongues: Don't Get It TWISTED

    8 other gifts,and we still only talk about this one.

    9 Gifts in 1 Cor 12:

    3 groups of 3

    power
    vocal
    revelation

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    Default Re: The Gift of Tongues: Don't Get It TWISTED

    Quote Originally Posted by Meggido View Post
    8 other gifts,and we still only talk about this one.

    9 Gifts in 1 Cor 12:

    3 groups of 3

    power
    vocal
    revelation
    You know why? Because the other gifts are not so easy to fake Thats why they are not so spread.
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    Default Re: The Gift of Tongues: Don't Get It TWISTED

    Quote Originally Posted by Meggido View Post
    8 other gifts,and we still only talk about this one.

    9 Gifts in 1 Cor 12:

    3 groups of 3

    power
    vocal
    revelation

    argh

    the op is about tongues

    be happy to contribute to a thread on the others

    thing is, as I point out on some posts regarding this subject, ALL the gifts have been abused

    teacher for example, is TERRIBLY abused. everyone and his uncle is a 'teacher'
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    Default Re: The Gift of Tongues: Don't Get It TWISTED

    Quote Originally Posted by Stephen63 View Post
    I agree.
    Act 2 was never about tongues on the Day of Pentecost..... it was about the gift of prophecy. Joel stated matter-of-factly that all believers when receiving the baptism would prophesy.
    We should talk about what prophecy is and isn't.
    .it isn't fortune telling, though some fake prophets pretend they can see the future.

    Prophecy is about Jesus and His salvation plan.

    Prophecy exhorts and teaches God's people about His divine plans for our lives and the world.

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    Default Re: The Gift of Tongues: Don't Get It TWISTED

    Quote Originally Posted by dcontroversal View Post
    With translator.com we have no need of a foreign language to be spoken in the Lord's churches.......

    interesting response I did not see " Translator.com in 1 cor chapter 12, 13, 14 hmmm
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    Default Re: The Gift of Tongues: Don't Get It TWISTED

    Quote Originally Posted by Issachar92 View Post
    Its always this one, why dont yall do any of the other 5 signs listed in mark? Oh I remember, because this one is the easiest one to fake.

    Carry on.
    Hey there! :-) The only reason why I only quoted this verse is because it directly answers the question that was asked. :-)
    Last edited by LOLOKGal; 1 Week Ago at 01:13 PM.
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    Default Re: The Gift of Tongues: Don't Get It TWISTED

    Quote Originally Posted by notuptome View Post
    The first hand accounts in the bible related to speaking in tongues are found in Acts. Why are there none else where in the bible?

    Tongues are prophesied in Joel to be for Israel when they see their Messiah at the end of the age. This is what Peter was addressing in Acts.

    Every believer is to exhibit the fruits of the Holy Spirit in their life. God has given gifts to the church in Ephesians 4 but the focus of the modern Gentile church is always on the controversy of tongues.

    Self edification seems so inconsistent with a Spirit filled life for Christ.

    1 Corinthians is a corrective book on the matter of tongues. The rest of the NT hardly mentions tongues. OT prophecy hardly mentions tongues and then as a warning of impending judgment.

    One must be cautious that with all the biblical warnings against tongues that they do not impose their personal will on what the bible is teaching regarding the intent of tongues in the NT.

    For the cause of Christ
    Roger
    DONT GET IT TWISTED
    ------------------------

    The gift of tongues was only for Israel (false): 1 Corinthians 14:4 King James Version (KJV)

    4
    He that speaketh in an unknown tongue
    edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church.
    5 I would that ye all spake with tongues but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that
    the church may receive edifying.

    Please note in reading the above verses that the gift of tongues edifies, whom? Not Israel, but the tongue speaker (himself) and the Church. So here we have an example where tongues is not a sign for Israel, is not a sign of impending judgement but rather is used to edify individuals and believers collectively.

    More verses (not only for Israel continued...):
    1 Corinthians 14:12-19 King James Version (KJV)

    12
    Even so ye, forasmuch as ye are zealous of spiritual gifts, seek that ye may excel to the edifying of the church.

    13 Wherefore let him that speaketh in an unknown tongue pray that he may interpret.
    14 For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful.
    15 What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also.
    16 Else when thou shalt bless with the spirit, how shall he that occupieth the room of the unlearned say Amen at thy giving of thanks, seeing he understandeth not what thou sayest?
    17 For thou verily givest thanks well, but the other is not edified.
    18 I thank my God, I speak with tongues more than ye all:
    19 Yet in the church I had rather speak five words with my understanding, that by my voice I might teach others also, than ten thousand words in an unknown tongue.

    There are a couple points to be made through these verses. One aspect of the gift of tongues is for the edification of the Church (not Israel, beyond Pentecost). If you go down to verse 16, you'll notice it says, "he that occupieth the room..." does that sound like Israel, or is the apostle Paul speaking of anyone in the presence of the gift of tongues being operated?

    You'll also notice the apostle Paul is emphasizing that the tongue speaker interpret what he is saying so that while he is giving praise "he that occupieth the room" may be edified and be able to say "amen" in agreement with your praise. Hence, this is not a sign for Israel, but the tongue speaker himself is praising the Lord edifying himself as it says in verse 4 of 1 Corinthians 14.

    Now move down to verse 19. "Yet in the church" implies two things. The apostle Paul speaks in tongues outside of the Church, and again, the gift of tongues is being operated for a purpose that extends beyond Pentecost. It is for the Church, for believers to operate in the gift and edify not only themselves but also fellow believers.

    Continued once more: 1 Corinthians 14:26-27 King James Version (KJV)

    26
    How is it then, brethren? when ye come together, every one of you hath a psalm, hath a doctrine, hath a tongue, hath a revelation, hath an interpretation. Let all things be done unto edifying.

    27 If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let it be by two, or at the most by three, and that by course; and let one interpret.

    Here we see clearly that the brethren (a body of believers, not the nation of Israel) are being told that when they fellowship that some will bless others with a psalm, a doctrine, a tongue, a revelation, and an interpretation. All for the purpose of edifying (end of verse 26). So clearly we have the gift of tongues serving a purpose beyond Pentecost and unto the edifying of the body of Christ (including self).
    Last edited by BenFTW; 1 Week Ago at 02:18 PM.
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    Default Re: The Gift of Tongues: Don't Get It TWISTED

    We can, if we like, classify spiritual gifts into gifts of work or action (such as healings, miracles) and of word (such as prophecy, teachings, tongues, and so forth).... (1 Corinthians 14) is quite taken up with the gifts of speech, and passes over miracles or gifts of action altogether. So for the building up of the Church, God emphasizes the ministry of the Word above the ministry of works.

    The Church is not to trust in miracles, for they may only lead to outward things. Israel in the wilderness continually touched God's works, but missed his life. So did the multitudes in the Gospels, who witnessed the Lord's gracious acts but knew nothing of the life he came to give. Even the disciples fell short here, for having performed miracles themselves, they fell at the last to arguing who of them should be the greatest. (Here as not building in love!), But the "seed is the word." Apart from God's Word of life nothing counts much. Miraculous works may support the Word; they cannot by themselves minister life.


    Scripture doesn't indicate tongues as gibberish babble, but always seems to indicate tongues are languages for spreading the word of God in different nations with different dialects.

    A Christian should understand that his emotion is wholly natural; it is not the source of God’s life. If he in fact acknowledges that no life of God resides in his emotion, he will never attempt to secure the salvation of people by means of his power of emotion through tears, mournful face, cries, or other emotional devices. No efforts of his emotion can affect in the slightest the darkened human spirit. Except the Holy Spirit gives life, man can have no life. If we do not rely on the Spirit and use emotion instead, our work will yield no real fruit.


    Let us return to the principle of tongues. Why do we pay attention to this matter? Because in the New Testament Paul compares tongues with prophetic ministry. Why is not the speaking in tongues forbidden? (notice, when speaking of tongues here we are always leaving open the meaning as other languages spoken, though, without necessarily in discernment with the mind).

    It is not forbidden because it is profitable to the one who speaks in tongues. Yet why is it useless in the ministry of the word? For the simple reason that there is no human understanding and no human element involved in tongues (That is, the man does not fix with his mind upon the words received). To speak in tongues depends entirely upon the Holy Spirit, that is, the person speaks with his own spirit as God’s Spirit gives him words. But it is nothing more.

    To our thinking, tongues may be better than prophecy, for is it not better to speak in God’s own words or in the words of the Holy Spirit? Nonetheless the Bible views tongues as being inferior to prophetic ministry. God places the latter above tongues. A prophetic ministry includes in it God’s word plus the prophet himself. In other words, the living water in the words flows out from the depths of the prophet; it does not pour down from heaven. This is a very fundamental principle in the New Testament.


    Never does the meaning of tongues in the Bible mean babble for neither are such actual words nor does God give babble. There needs to be taught between the word and the spirit to prevent artificiality. Do be careful what you are letting go into, for it may not be the Holy Spirit at all, but the evil spirit's wiles, even though it may seem harmless. Later on what seemed so innocent can grip you and render you controlled by it. See how damaging altering God's Word is?

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    Default Re: The Gift of Tongues: Don't Get It TWISTED

    Quote Originally Posted by Stephen63 View Post
    Joel stated matter-of-factly that all believers when receiving the baptism would prophesy.
    That is not what Joel prophesied not at all. Nice job of eisegesis. Other than the promise of the Holy Spirit nothing of Joel is to the gentiles.

    For the cause of Christ
    Roger
    The bible is a mirror not a magnifying glass
    use it to examine yourself not others.

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    Default Re: The Gift of Tongues: Don't Get It TWISTED

    Quote Originally Posted by notuptome View Post
    That is not what Joel prophesied not at all. Nice job of eisgesis . Other than the promise of the Holy Spirit nothing of Joel is to the gentiles.

    For the cause of Christ
    Roger
    exegesis would be the full context of Acts and what Peter had said which some chose to over look. and what also happen to the gentiles recorded in Acts 2:16-18

    But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel;
    And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:

    Verse 21: And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.

    Veerse 39:
    For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

    This was never just for the Jews which is shown in the book of Acts. To get Proper exegesis one has to take the full account of all who had the very same experience and the context of each.
    it Don't mean a thing if you an't got the King

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    Default Re: The Gift of Tongues: Don't Get It TWISTED

    Quote Originally Posted by slave View Post
    -snip-

    Scripture doesn't indicate tongues as gibberish babble, but always seems to indicate tongues are languages for spreading the word of God in different nations with different dialects.


    -snip-
    Can you provide scripture for this? If I may expound, do you suppose that if I spoke, lets say, a lost dialect of German that it might sound as if I was simply babbling to your ears? Besides this point, lets also consider that scripture is very definite that tongues serve multiple functions, some of which are not evangelistic by any stretch of the imagination.

    Praying outside of the Church ("Yet in the Church..."? Singing in the Spirit? Praising God in the Spirit, "that is all good and well that you give thanks but the other is not edified"? None of this sounds evangelistic at all, in fact tongues is often spoken of as something that "edifieth himself" as opposed to another. It can be very personal, and have nothing at all to do with spreading the word of God in different nations with different dialects.

    Your only example of tongues being used as a human language is at Pentecost, but contrast this with 1 Corinthians 14 and it leads one to believe that either they were different manifestations all together or the gift of tongues is multifaceted in its operations. One needing to be interpreted and the other the ability to speak in a foreign dialect that one is ignorant to. So, obviously, the necessity to interpret to those around listening means that the gift of tongues in certain instances wasn't to speak fluently in the language of another for an evangelistic purpose, but something different entirely. Mainly and specifically for the edification of another.

    Scripture doesn't always seem to indicate that tongues are known languages meant for evangelistic purposes, but rather have shown them to not be understood by man, nor addressed to man "but to God" and that no one "understandeth him" because it is towards God, with speaking mysteries in the Spirit.

    Imagine the apostle Paul even gave an example of speaking in tongues where one is praising God, nothing to do with spreading the Gospel, just worship, and how it should be interpreted so that another can come in agreement to those praises ( to say "amen"). Pentecost is not the end all and be all on the gift of tongues, if anything it is but a glimpse of a multifaceted gift.

    PS: Not saying the gift of tongues is babble, they simply could be languages we have no concept of. Lost, or unknown, who knows, but we cannot conclude that just because it isn't a modern language it is falsified or not being a genuine manifestation.
    Last edited by BenFTW; 1 Week Ago at 04:21 PM.
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    Default Re: The Gift of Tongues: Don't Get It TWISTED

    Scripture doesn't indicate tongues as gibberish babble, but always seems to indicate tongues are languages for spreading the word of God in different nations with different dialects.
    what about Paul's indication of PRAYING in tongues and personal edification?

    I can attest to many instances in which praying in tongues was pivotal in my life

    tongues is not just for spreading the gospel unless it is indicated that the Holy Spirit also EMPOWERED those He filled and who spoke in tongues

    we are to be a witness for Christ as much as is the Holy Spirit. if we are filled with the Holy Spirit, and BEING filled with the Holy Spirit, I believe this is a representation of the life giving 'water' Jesus spoke of to the Samaritan woman He spoke to at the well
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    Default Re: The Gift of Tongues: Don't Get It TWISTED

    Ben ~ we must have posted at the same time

    anyway, we agree it seems
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    Default Re: The Gift of Tongues: Don't Get It TWISTED

    Quote Originally Posted by sevenseas View Post
    what about Paul's indication of PRAYING in tongues and personal edification?

    I can attest to many instances in which praying in tongues was pivotal in my life

    tongues is not just for spreading the gospel unless it is indicated that the Holy Spirit also EMPOWERED those He filled and who spoke in tongues

    we are to be a witness for Christ as much as is the Holy Spirit. if we are filled with the Holy Spirit, and BEING filled with the Holy Spirit, I believe this is a representation of the life giving 'water' Jesus spoke of to the Samaritan woman He spoke to at the well
    That must be that clothed with power thang he was talking about.
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    Default Re: The Gift of Tongues: Don't Get It TWISTED

    Quote Originally Posted by Meggido View Post
    That must be that clothed with power thang he was talking about.

    that POWER is ALWAYS to edify the listener, we witness by the power of the Holy Spirit

    when we speak according to the word He places within us, it is with power and truth and Jesus is glorified

    no use in trying to convert people in our own power or with human wisdom because that is not salvation
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    Default Re: The Gift of Tongues: Don't Get It TWISTED

    Quote Originally Posted by Stephen63 View Post
    I agree.
    Act 2 was never about tongues on the Day of Pentecost..... it was about the gift of prophecy. Joel stated matter-of-factly that all believers when receiving the baptism would prophesy.
    Actually the Day of Pentecost is evidence of the outpouring of the promise of the Father . . . . the gift of holy spirit.

    Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the holy spirit, he has shed forth this which you now see and hear.
    Wash away all my iniquity and cleanse me from my sin. Psalm 51:2
    Heaviness in the heart of man maketh it stoop: but a good word maketh it glad. Pro. 12:25
    Let the words of my mouth and the meditation of my heart be acceptable in thy sight, O LORD, my strength, and my redeemer. Ps. 19:14
    The counsel of the LORD standeth for ever, the thoughts of his heart to all generations. Ps. 33:11
    We learn to walk spiritually the same way we learn to walk physically-by walking.

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    Default Re: The Gift of Tongues: Don't Get It TWISTED

    Quote Originally Posted by Meggido View Post
    8 other gifts,and we still only talk about this one.

    9 Gifts in 1 Cor 12:

    3 groups of 3

    power
    vocal
    revelation
    Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins and you shall receive the gift of holy spirit . . . One gift in 1 Cor. 12 - the gift of holy spirit . . . nine manifestation of the Spirit starting in 12:7;i.e. But the manifestation of the Spirit . . . . then the nine are listed in verses 8 - 10. All are available to be manifested by the believer and are profitable to the believers life.

    Revelation = a message of knowledge and/or a message of wisdom
    Power manifestation = faith, gifts of healings, miracles, prophecy, discerning of spirits
    Worship = speaking in tongues, interpretation of tongues . . . . God wants a relationship with us and in order to do that we must be able to worship God in spirit and in truth (worship), hear from Him (revelation), and work for Him, i.e. serve him (power).
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    Wash away all my iniquity and cleanse me from my sin. Psalm 51:2
    Heaviness in the heart of man maketh it stoop: but a good word maketh it glad. Pro. 12:25
    Let the words of my mouth and the meditation of my heart be acceptable in thy sight, O LORD, my strength, and my redeemer. Ps. 19:14
    The counsel of the LORD standeth for ever, the thoughts of his heart to all generations. Ps. 33:11
    We learn to walk spiritually the same way we learn to walk physically-by walking.

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    Default Re: The Gift of Tongues: Don't Get It TWISTED

    Quote Originally Posted by peacefulbeliever View Post
    Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins and you shall receive the gift of holy spirit . . . One gift in 1 Cor. 12 - the gift of holy spirit . . . nine manifestation of the Spirit starting in 12:7;i.e. But the manifestation of the Spirit . . . . then the nine are listed in verses 8 - 10. All are available to be manifested by the believer and are profitable to the believers life.

    Revelation = a message of knowledge and/or a message of wisdom
    Power manifestation = faith, gifts of healings, miracles, prophecy, discerning of spirits
    Worship = speaking in tongues, interpretation of tongues . . . . God wants a relationship with us and in order to do that we must be able to worship God in spirit and in truth (worship), hear from Him (revelation), and work for Him, i.e. serve him (power).
    3 groups of 3

    power= faith, gifts of healing, miracles.
    vocal=tongues, interpretation of tongues, prophecy.
    revelation-word of wisdom, word of knowledge, discerning of spirits.

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    Default Re: The Gift of Tongues: Don't Get It TWISTED

    Quote Originally Posted by Stephen63 View Post
    Where is the proof we are still to get baptized in water? Where is the proof we still live by faith?

    It's in the Book.
    Right! And in the different to the speaking of tongues which is taught since the year 1900, you can follow it through the whole Church Historie.

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