-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
D
Here is your choice. Bacon or chocolate?
Did you choose one? Good.
Did it ever dawn on you you had other choices? If it did, I bet it was chocolate covered bacon, or something you really like.
Were you aware you could have chosen coffee? No? Well, okay. Did I just stomp on your choices just because it never dawned on you that you could have chosen coffee?
Here. Have some coffee! It's yours even if you didn't choose it.
Did I stomp on your choices again?
Meh! I didn't really, nor did you choose coffee until I gave it to you.
And now you get to choose if you want that coffee. (I sure hope I picked your favorite beverage, because God gives us our favorite thing. We just didn't know it was our favorite thing until he gave it to us.)
Did you choose one? Good.
Did it ever dawn on you you had other choices? If it did, I bet it was chocolate covered bacon, or something you really like.
Were you aware you could have chosen coffee? No? Well, okay. Did I just stomp on your choices just because it never dawned on you that you could have chosen coffee?
Here. Have some coffee! It's yours even if you didn't choose it.
Did I stomp on your choices again?
Meh! I didn't really, nor did you choose coffee until I gave it to you.
And now you get to choose if you want that coffee. (I sure hope I picked your favorite beverage, because God gives us our favorite thing. We just didn't know it was our favorite thing until he gave it to us.)
We only have to choices: we either believe in the only begotten Son of God or we don't. No other choices do we have and it takes our will/minds to make the choice.
The way I see it - faith comes from hearing and hearing from the word of God. Does hearing the word of God open our eyes, open our understanding to the point where we either trust it or do not trust it? (Faith comes from hearing and hearing from the word of God. Rom. 10:17; In whom you also trusted, after that you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that you believed, you were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise. Eph. 1:13)
The whole point though - who is it that has to trust/believe? Is it already predestined who will trust/believe? or is the thing predestined thewhole plan of salvation?
I don't know but my Bible says "whosoever believes" not "whosoever is elected" . . . . My Bible also says that God wants all men to be saved . . . . And as far as God changing us to do his will - Wonder why we are told to renew our minds? to put off the old man and to put on the new man? If we have nothing to do with this relationship thingy -then we don't even need to repent because hey, your either in or your out! And isn't there such a thing as resisting the holy Spirit?
The way I see it - faith comes from hearing and hearing from the word of God. Does hearing the word of God open our eyes, open our understanding to the point where we either trust it or do not trust it? (Faith comes from hearing and hearing from the word of God. Rom. 10:17; In whom you also trusted, after that you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that you believed, you were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise. Eph. 1:13)
The whole point though - who is it that has to trust/believe? Is it already predestined who will trust/believe? or is the thing predestined thewhole plan of salvation?
I don't know but my Bible says "whosoever believes" not "whosoever is elected" . . . . My Bible also says that God wants all men to be saved . . . . And as far as God changing us to do his will - Wonder why we are told to renew our minds? to put off the old man and to put on the new man? If we have nothing to do with this relationship thingy -then we don't even need to repent because hey, your either in or your out! And isn't there such a thing as resisting the holy Spirit?
Hi Lynn,
Maybe this is where the different beliefs within reformed theology takes place. Those I know that are in the reformed belief will say that man is so dead in his sin, he can't even respond to God. He has to be regenerated first.
In other words the one who can cry out to God for mercy is the one that's already been born again. For these reformed believers God is stepping on the leash.
Maybe that's not how far you go with reformed teaching, but for many of them, this is what they're saying.
One of the saddest things in reformed theology that I've come across are those who don't know if they're one of the chosen ones or not. I've asked some and they say they don't know if they are chosen.
D
Of course we know we are saved. Not only did we get the invite to the wedding feast, we were gathered to go and given the proper attire. (Matt. 22:1-14)
He invited everyone. He didn't gather everyone because those he invited didn't choose to come! He gathered and clothed those whom he chose -- the beggars.
He invited everyone. He didn't gather everyone because those he invited didn't choose to come! He gathered and clothed those whom he chose -- the beggars.
D
Who's throwing rocks? Somehow you believe something changed when you left reformed theology. What changed? (Same question, asked differently.)
BTW, just so you know, if I throw rocks at you, feel completely safe from rocks. It's the people behind me that should be worried. I can't throw to save my own life. lol
BTW, just so you know, if I throw rocks at you, feel completely safe from rocks. It's the people behind me that should be worried. I can't throw to save my own life. lol
D
I can tell you it is highly unlikely he elected Mom. She already died, and the last time I talked to her she thought the Catholic Church saved her. It is possible he reached her after that, but as far as I know, when I go to God Mom won't be there.
It breaks my heart, but I am interested in seeing how there is no more tears and sorrow in heaven. I can't see me not crying if my whole family isn't there too.
I do trust God though, so we will see how that works out.
Are all the ones who have already died in your family in heaven? If not, what about God not loving them? I don't get the question, really.
It breaks my heart, but I am interested in seeing how there is no more tears and sorrow in heaven. I can't see me not crying if my whole family isn't there too.
I do trust God though, so we will see how that works out.
Are all the ones who have already died in your family in heaven? If not, what about God not loving them? I don't get the question, really.
D
Really? When were you told what your choice is? God doesn't audibly talk to me. He just kind of shows me stuff.
As for my choice? I trust Jesus wasn't lying when he said everyone chooses to hide in the darkness. I remember that darkness. It was very effective in hiding what I was doing. Everything changed when the light switch went Dink. I certainly didn't turn that light switch on. Foils the whole hiding in darkness thing. The light is God. He carried it out, just like Jesus said he would.
Suddenly, I like light. Go figure.
As for my choice? I trust Jesus wasn't lying when he said everyone chooses to hide in the darkness. I remember that darkness. It was very effective in hiding what I was doing. Everything changed when the light switch went Dink. I certainly didn't turn that light switch on. Foils the whole hiding in darkness thing. The light is God. He carried it out, just like Jesus said he would.
Suddenly, I like light. Go figure.
I have said a prayer for your mom to be in heaven. God hears and answers all prayers and heard this prayer even before He created the universe. It does say that there will be no more sorrow or tears in the next life. Well, it would be very sorrowful and tearful indeed if our loved ones are not there with us. Now, God could simply wipe our memories of those that didn't make it but to me that seems like lying and is in conflict with there no longer being sorrow or tears. Your mom will be there waiting for you. Probably cook you something special too. Mothers do things like that.
Hi Grandpa,
And I view this quite differently.
Actually some of them did heed God's warning, but only a remnant. They all were punished and those who were not killed by Neb's army were banished to Babylon. But God had those who were faithful to Him (a remnant) and He put a mark on their forehead so they wouldn't be killed with the others.
Ezekiel 36 is talking about the new birth. For the Jews as a nation, they will see Him whom they have pierced and will grieve as for a lost son. But that's all for another topic of discussion.
What He promises Israel being future is what we have now. We believe by faith. He washes us clean and gives us a new heart and fills us with His Spirit. Hallelujah! But it's still by faith we believe on the Lord and we say yes or we say no to His free offer of mercy and grace to believe in His Son to whosoever will.
As nobody provided some consistent definition of freedom and will, what about this one?
"Aristotle has already observed that there are two things in freedom, to wit, spontaneity and choice, and therein lies our mastery over our actions.
When we act freely we are not being forced, as would happen if we were pushed on to a precipice and thrown from top to bottom;
and we are not prevented from having the mind free when we deliberate, as would happen if we were given a draught to deprive us of discernment.
There is contingency in a thousand actions of Nature; but when there is no judgement in him who acts there is no freedom.
And if we had judgement not accompanied by any inclination to act, our soul would be an understanding without will."
Leibniz
Free will:
- is not being forced
- has inclination or else it would be inactive
- has a judgement
Do you agree with this?
"Aristotle has already observed that there are two things in freedom, to wit, spontaneity and choice, and therein lies our mastery over our actions.
When we act freely we are not being forced, as would happen if we were pushed on to a precipice and thrown from top to bottom;
and we are not prevented from having the mind free when we deliberate, as would happen if we were given a draught to deprive us of discernment.
There is contingency in a thousand actions of Nature; but when there is no judgement in him who acts there is no freedom.
And if we had judgement not accompanied by any inclination to act, our soul would be an understanding without will."
Leibniz
Free will:
- is not being forced
- has inclination or else it would be inactive
- has a judgement
Do you agree with this?
Last edited:
2 peter 1:3-11 "According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the KNOWLEDGE OF HIM that hath called us to glory and virtue: 4Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the DIVINE NATURE, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust. 5And beside this, GIVING ALL DILIGENCE, ADD TO your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge; 6And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness; 7And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity. 8For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the KNOWLEDGE OF our Lord Jesus Christ. 9But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his OLD SINS..
10Wherefore the rather, brethren, GIVE DILIGENCE TO MAKE YOUR CALLING AND ELECTION SURE: for IF YE DO THESE THINGS , ye shall never fall: 11For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ."
i think some are confused by the fact that were elected, election doesnt mean we can do no wrong or depart from that calling and election. were supposed to learn from the isrealites who were elected and then rebelled and fell in the desert.
10Wherefore the rather, brethren, GIVE DILIGENCE TO MAKE YOUR CALLING AND ELECTION SURE: for IF YE DO THESE THINGS , ye shall never fall: 11For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ."
i think some are confused by the fact that were elected, election doesnt mean we can do no wrong or depart from that calling and election. were supposed to learn from the isrealites who were elected and then rebelled and fell in the desert.