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Thread: Lets Talk Free Choice

  1. #401
    Senior Member preacher4truth's Avatar
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    Default Re: Lets Talk Free Choice

    Quote Originally Posted by Desertsrose View Post
    Hi preacher,

    In Acts 16.........

    “Sirs,
    what must I do to be saved?”
    They said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household.

    In Acts 2......
    Now when they heard this, they were pierced to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, “Brethren, what shall we do?”Peter said to them, “Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
    ...wonder what happened to that jailer, that he would do such a thing?
    People are offended that God is God.

    Oh, my brethren! bold-hearted men are always called mean-spirited by cowards. - Charles Spurgeon

    I threw out the writings of Moses because he killed that Egyptian guy.

  2. #402
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    Default Re: Lets Talk Free Choice

    Quote Originally Posted by Magenta View Post
    Theory? No. Scriptural fact. Jesus has ascended to the Father.
    Was that before or after appearing to Mary or was it while hanging out with his disciples eating fish on the beach?

    A clue for you, don't touch the merchandize.
    Last edited by BeyondET; May 18th, 2017 at 02:50 PM.

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    Default Re: Lets Talk Free Choice

    Quote Originally Posted by Angela53510 View Post
    It seems to me that some people on this thread are glorifying "freedom" 'free will" and "choice" over God.

    I am not American, so, like I could not truly understand the ending of Braveheart with his "FREEDOM" I do not understand why our will even matters?

    Salvation is not about me! It is about Christ! He is the one who sacrificed himself for me, and each person. He is the one who has predestined us for adoption! That is what the Bible says.

    Instead of some people getting deeper into that truth, they are slavishly devoted to some non-Biblical idea that free choice or free will is the ultimate good. In fact, so important, we have been discussing it for 20 pages.

    Poeple need to come back to their senses, and think about the fact that the gospel, or good news, is that Jesus died on the cross as the final sacrifice for sin. God calls us, he changes us, and he moves us to share his good news with others!

    We are just lost in a fallen world, until God calls us. I actively fought God for many years as he moved people to share the good news with me. But then, he just swooped down, and saved me in spite of myself.

    I wonder how many people here truly believe that it was their personal choice that saved them? And if that is what they believe, are they truly saved? (Not addressing anyone in particular, just thinking out loud!)

    Of course, some people might believe they made the choice, when in fact, it is just social conditioning and bad preaching that makes them think that the solemn moment when God touched their hearts and lives, that they initiated it. Must be nice to have God at the beck and call of every sinner!

    Hi Angela,

    I love and respect you and consider you a sister in the Lord. I can only speak for myself, but I don't think the others are glorifying Free will either. We're just stating that it's a part of God's character and will to allow man to choose Him or reject Him.

    I would say that Salvation is about God and us. Without us there's no need for God to save anyone, but because we need to be saved and restored to a right relationship with Him, it's definitely about us as well. And I say will all my heart that God gets all the glory for saving mankind.

    And I think it's important that man know he can freely come to God to be saved. He said so.

    In many ways we would agree on how man is saved, but it's the details that get in the way of our total agreement.

    Instead of saying what you think we're saying, how about asking us. You could say, "so are you glorifying free will?" Or you could ask, "do you get any glory out of your choice?"

    Why can't both sides dialog and try to understand one another instead of assuming something? Why assume I glorify free will? I thank God for it, but I glorify Him. I thank Him for the ability to make a choice. He's worthy and we have no worth in and of ourselves.

    Jesus is the one that saves us.....He atoned for our sins. There's no other salvation, but in Him our Wonderful Savior.

    I haven't heard anyone on this thread even hint that their choice saves them, but I wouldn't be surprised if someone did because we all aren't perfect in our understanding.

    Just as you believe in what you think is correct, so do I. So as I respect you, please respect me.

    Can we not still get along without assumptions? Ask if anyone here thinks that God is at their beck and call. Don't assume it because you don't like the way we believe.

    Love ya.........!!!
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    Ezekiel 18:23 Do I have any pleasure in the death of the wicked,” declares the Lord God, “rather than that he should turn from his ways and live?

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    Senior Member notuptome's Avatar
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    Default Re: Lets Talk Free Choice

    Quote Originally Posted by Angela53510 View Post
    It seems to me that some people on this thread are glorifying "freedom" 'free will" and "choice" over God.

    I am not American, so, like I could not truly understand the ending of Braveheart with his "FREEDOM" I do not understand why our will even matters?

    Salvation is not about me! It is about Christ! He is the one who sacrificed himself for me, and each person. He is the one who has predestined us for adoption! That is what the Bible says.

    Instead of some people getting deeper into that truth, they are slavishly devoted to some non-Biblical idea that free choice or free will is the ultimate good. In fact, so important, we have been discussing it for 20 pages.

    Poeple need to come back to their senses, and think about the fact that the gospel, or good news, is that Jesus died on the cross as the final sacrifice for sin. God calls us, he changes us, and he moves us to share his good news with others!

    We are just lost in a fallen world, until God calls us. I actively fought God for many years as he moved people to share the good news with me. But then, he just swooped down, and saved me in spite of myself.

    I wonder how many people here truly believe that it was their personal choice that saved them? And if that is what they believe, are they truly saved? (Not addressing anyone in particular, just thinking out loud!)

    Of course, some people might believe they made the choice, when in fact, it is just social conditioning and bad preaching that makes them think that the solemn moment when God touched their hearts and lives, that they initiated it. Must be nice to have God at the beck and call of every sinner!
    I think you are overstating the matter. Scripture is very clear that man gets saved at the determinate will of God and not himself. Does every man have the opportunity to decide between God and condemnation? I do not think scripture teaches that God makes the decision for us.

    John 3:19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
    20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.
    21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.

    I am beginning to see this as a phantom argument. God does not predetermine who is saved and who is lost. Man cannot get saved when he wants and how he wants which is the real problem. We have a whole host of folks who want to be saved from condemnation but they do not want the blood of Christ to cleanse them from their sins. They only desire to be good enough to get into heaven but still desire the pleasures of the world.

    Free will and free choice are only free to the extent that God allows them to be free. At the same time God does not compel any man to be saved against his will.

    For the cause of Christ
    Roger
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    use it to examine yourself not others.

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    Default Re: Lets Talk Free Choice

    Quote Originally Posted by notmyown View Post
    since you so kindly offered, i will try again.

    you just posted a bunch of verses from Romans 3 that show man's inability and unwillingness to come to Christ.

    do you remember Tribesman? (i do miss him so) he once told me that the statements like "choose you this day" and "as for me and my house" etc. were spoken by people already in covenant with God.
    he said that had the ability to make such choices because God had already placed them in covenant with Him.
    So - "choose you this day" and "as for me and my house" were spoken by people already in covenant with God.

    May I ask what exactly you are saying? Joshua just wasting his breath because these people were already chosen and therefore had nothing to choose? How bout spiritual idolatry, i.e. serving other gods? They had to make a choice -

    14
    Now therefore fear the LORD, and serve him in sincerity and in truth: and put away the gods which your fathers served on the other side of the flood, and in Egypt; and serve the LORD.
    15 And if it seem evil unto you to serve the Lord, choose you this day whom you will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the Lord.

    16 And the people answered and said, God forbid that we should forsake the Lord, to serve other gods; . . .

    The Israelites were always straying from the one true God to serve other gods . . .
    Wash away all my iniquity and cleanse me from my sin. Psalm 51:2
    Heaviness in the heart of man maketh it stoop: but a good word maketh it glad. Pro. 12:25
    Let the words of my mouth and the meditation of my heart be acceptable in thy sight, O LORD, my strength, and my redeemer. Ps. 19:14
    The counsel of the LORD standeth for ever, the thoughts of his heart to all generations. Ps. 33:11
    We learn to walk spiritually the same way we learn to walk physically-by walking.

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    Default Re: Lets Talk Free Choice

    Quote Originally Posted by Marano View Post
    Where did I ever say that? The reality is that men dead in sin can't see God's love, much less love God back, we love Him, because He first loved us.
    oh that again....sigh

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    Default Re: Lets Talk Free Choice

    Originally Posted by Marano Where did I ever say that? The reality is that men dead in sin can't see God's love, much less love God back, we love Him, because He first loved us.
    Quote Originally Posted by Meggido View Post
    oh that again....sigh
    It should make you sigh BECAUSE ITS TRUE

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    Default Re: Lets Talk Free Choice

    Quote Originally Posted by trofimus View Post
    Temptation was what the serpent said.

    Inclination was that she liked what she saw.

    Sin was that she ate.
    Adam and Eve did not even know what good and evil were until they ate and their understanding was opened so there was NO inclination - she fell for the temptation and Adam followed, i.e. she chose to eat, her husband followed her direction.
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    Wash away all my iniquity and cleanse me from my sin. Psalm 51:2
    Heaviness in the heart of man maketh it stoop: but a good word maketh it glad. Pro. 12:25
    Let the words of my mouth and the meditation of my heart be acceptable in thy sight, O LORD, my strength, and my redeemer. Ps. 19:14
    The counsel of the LORD standeth for ever, the thoughts of his heart to all generations. Ps. 33:11
    We learn to walk spiritually the same way we learn to walk physically-by walking.

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    Default Re: Lets Talk Free Choice

    Quote Originally Posted by Angela53510 View Post
    It seems to me that some people on this thread are glorifying "freedom" 'free will" and "choice" over God.

    I am not American, so, like I could not truly understand the ending of Braveheart with his "FREEDOM" I do not understand why our will even matters?

    Salvation is not about me! It is about Christ! He is the one who sacrificed himself for me, and each person. He is the one who has predestined us for adoption! That is what the Bible says.
    Salvation isn't about you? You are the one receiving eternal life or eternal death - I would say that it does have to do with you. YES, salvation is about Christ - He is the way, the truth, and the life, there is NO salvation apart from belief in the only begotten Son of God - if a person doesn't believe this though then they are not saved . . . right? So who does the believing and who does the rejecting? What is predestined is the fact that before the foundation of the world, he has chosen those who believe unto adoption as children, those who believe have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins . . . .
    Instead of some people getting deeper into that truth, they are slavishly devoted to some non-Biblical idea that free choice or free will is the ultimate good. In fact, so important, we have been discussing it for 20 pages.

    Poeple need to come back to their senses, and think about the fact that the gospel, or good news, is that Jesus died on the cross as the final sacrifice for sin. God calls us, he changes us, and he moves us to share his good news with others!
    I agree - it is the death and resurrection of our Lord, Jesus Christ that is important. Yes, God calls man, (there has to be an answer to the call), God changes us by placing his desires within us through being partakers of the divine nature, we are to renew our minds - to put on the new man and to put off the old man . . . these things we are told to do, and we are to be witnesses to others.
    We are just lost in a fallen world, until God calls us. I actively fought God for many years as he moved people to share the good news with me. But then, he just swooped down, and saved me in spite of myself.

    I wonder how many people here truly believe that it was their personal choice that saved them? And if that is what they believe, are they truly saved? (Not addressing anyone in particular, just thinking out loud!)

    Of course, some people might believe they made the choice, when in fact, it is just social conditioning and bad preaching that makes them think that the solemn moment when God touched their hearts and lives, that they initiated it. Must be nice to have God at the beck and call of every sinner!
    I truly believe that it was my personal choice to believe - I had to confess Jesus as Lord and believe in my heart that God raised him from the dead. Did God open my eyes of understanding to the gospel as preached through his word? Did the Holy Spirit work within me via the preaching of the word? Yes. But I still had to believe it . . . . A sinner can call out to God . . . Jesus Christ came to call sinners to repentance. For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. . . . For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth . . .
    Wash away all my iniquity and cleanse me from my sin. Psalm 51:2
    Heaviness in the heart of man maketh it stoop: but a good word maketh it glad. Pro. 12:25
    Let the words of my mouth and the meditation of my heart be acceptable in thy sight, O LORD, my strength, and my redeemer. Ps. 19:14
    The counsel of the LORD standeth for ever, the thoughts of his heart to all generations. Ps. 33:11
    We learn to walk spiritually the same way we learn to walk physically-by walking.

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    Default Re: Lets Talk Free Choice

    Quote Originally Posted by valiant View Post
    It should make you sigh BECAUSE ITS TRUE
    according to you guys.

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    Default Re: Lets Talk Free Choice

    Quote Originally Posted by kaylagrl View Post


    Adam and Eve had an innocence,they did not know sin,but they were not sinless and the choice to sin was there,which they chose.


    The Bible says that “God saw every thing that he had made, and behold, it was very good” (Gn 1:31). Never is it said, however, that Adam and Eve were perfect. That word is applied to man, but never to mean without sin. To Abraham God said, “...walk before me, and be thou perfect” (Gn 17:1); of Job it is said “...that man was perfect and upright” (Job:1:1
    ); Jesus commanded, “Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect” (Mt 5:48); Paul says that Scripture is given “that the man of God may be perfect” (2 Tm 3:17); etc. The meaning is maturity and a heart that desires to please God and do His will—but not without the possibility to sin. The Bible clearly says, “For there is not a just man upon the earth, that doeth good, and sinneth not” (Eccl 7:20), and “All have sinned and come short of the glory of God” (Rom:3:23
    ). Sin is coming short of the glory of God, in whose image Adam and Eve were created. Only God is perfect in the full sense of being without the possibility of sinning. Thus Jesus said, “...there is none good but one, that is, God” (Mt 19:17).

    Adam and Eve must have been created with the power of choice, or God would not have given them a command and punished them for disobeying it. No one, not even Eve who was deceived by Satan, Judas of whom it is said that “Satan entered into him” (Jn:13:27
    ), or Ananias and Sapphira whose hearts “Satan filled...to lie to the Holy Ghost” (Acts:5:3
    ) can blame his or her sin on the devil; nor does God ever tempt man to sin (Jas 1:13), much less cause anyone to sin. All are without excuse.

    If Adam and Eve were forced (or even tricked) into doing something against their will, they could hardly be held accountable, nor could that act be called sin. It makes even less sense that God would have caused them to sin. Thus God would be the author of evil and we would have the contradiction of God telling them not to eat of the tree, causing them to do so, then punishing them for disobeying Him—a thought repugnant to human conscience and logic.

    The difference between Adam and Eve and all of their offspring is a simple one: the former were created by God in a state of innocence and intimate fellowship with Him. No doubt the Spirit of God dwelt within their spirits in close communion. When they sinned, the Spirit of God departed, bringing immediate spiritual death, which affected their bodies and eventually brought physical death. As the children of Adam and Eve, Cain and Abel could only be born into the state of sin, separation and death that had become the condition of their parents. And so it is with all of us.


    https://www.thebereancall.org/conten...2002-q-and-a-3
    Your eyes are too pure to look on evil;
    you cannot tolerate wrongdoing.
    Why then do you tolerate the treacherous?
    Why are you silent while the wicked
    swallow up those more righteous than themselves?[Hab. 1:13]




    Sorry Sissy, you're theology is way off the rails. God and Adam communed daily. So, this shows Adam was sinless. After the sixth day, God declared His whole creation 'good and very good.' If Adam was not sinless, then he was not 'good and very good' and God was fooled when He said that.
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    .
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    Default Re: Lets Talk Free Choice

    Quote Originally Posted by kaylagrl View Post
    Not the best verses for your point,it ends with "come unto me,all you"...
    Who are burdened and heavy ladened....
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    I have given God countless reasons not to love me. None of them has been strong enough to change Him.
    Paul Washer

    Instead of telling them God has a wonderful plan for their life - tell them who God is.
    Paul Washer

    God saved you for Himself; God saved you by Himself; God saved you from Himself
    .
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    Default Re: Lets Talk Free Choice

    Quote Originally Posted by kaylagrl View Post
    Not the best verses for your point,it ends with "come unto me,all you"...
    Wow, really? Unbelievable that you simply go to "what it ends with" and leave it at that. Goodness sake, trying to be patient here but you cannot just simply go to the end and curtail the entire passage in that way.


    Actually it is the best because it shows what I am saying thoroughly in God's Sovereign election.

    You're completely missing the leading context prior to the "come unto me" (starting in verse 25) which cannot be divorced from the context. Try reading it again, and see what Jesus is actually saying in the leading context because that is to whom He is referring in the latter and it all ties together.
    Last edited by preacher4truth; May 18th, 2017 at 05:25 PM.
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    Oh, my brethren! bold-hearted men are always called mean-spirited by cowards. - Charles Spurgeon

    I threw out the writings of Moses because he killed that Egyptian guy.

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    Default Re: Lets Talk Free Choice

    Quote Originally Posted by kaylagrl View Post
    Quote "How does the Spirit draw ppl? Via the word of God. Many died never hearing it. How could He draw those who never heard it?

    No,back round the circle again.The Bible says men are without excuse.No one can stand and the final judgement and say "well Lord,I never got a Bible,I lived in a place with no tv,no radio,I never heard the Gospel" No! If God can talk through a burning bush He can and has made a way for men to seek and to know Him.


    No. Ppl are w/o excuse because they died sinners and had the Law written on their hearts. I love watching a show called 'River Monsters' where a marine biologist, Jeremy Wade, goes into very remote areas to catch water predators. These ppl, most of them, live is some of the most remote areas, even no electric. So no TV. I wonder if any missionairies have been there.

    A missionary my sister knows went to a remote village to bring the Gospel.The village elder met him and welcomed him and said they had had visions of a man named Jesus and that God was going to send someone to teach them more.No! God gives all an opportunity to know Him.No one who is destined for hell at the final judgement will be able to accuse God because they did not have the opportunity to come to Him.Ive heard this before here and it is not true.We are without excuse.
    I reject this ideology. Faith comes by hearing the message about the Christ.[Romans 10:17] The context of Romans 10:14-17 is via the verbal proclamation of the gospel, not these unfounded mystical accounts.


    Read up on the OT. This choice was given to God's ppl, Israel. It was not given to the Egyptians, Assyrians, Philistines, Jebusite, Hittites, Hivvities, &c.

    Please read the OT again,there were Gentiles who believed in the OT called righteous Gentiles.The OT was to the Jew first,as the Bible says again and again,then to the Gentile. The Jew first because they are the chosen people.


    There were a few Gentiles who believed, such as Ruth and Rahab, but a vast majority were left out.

    This choice is now given to God's ppl in NT days, the church."

    No,the call is now open to the Gentiles,all the others you mentioned were included with the death of Christ.OT to the Jews first,NT to the Gentiles. The church does not replace the Jews.


    Never mentioned Replacement Theology. The church, the body of the Christ, is comprised of both Jews and Gentiles.


    This choice is given to God's chosen ppl."


    If that is the case both you and I are out of luck.The chosen are the Jews. So we know that is false because we are grafted into the vine.And we know the call is to whosoever will, to the sinner,to the world world. "Go into all the world and preach the Gospel" it is to every man. The chosen have already been told,they were told first in the OT. Salvation was first to the Jews then to the Gentiles.


    Paul easily laid this out in Romans 2. The true Israel comprises both Jews and Gentiles, those who have been circumcised in their hearts by the Spirit of God.[Romans 2:28,29]

    Y
    et, Psalm 14 and Romans 3 says there are NONE who seek Him."
    Lets look at this passage of Scripture in Romans,which is quoting Psalms...


    What shall we conclude then? Do we have any advantage? Not at all! For we have already made the charge that Jews and Gentiles alike are all under the power of sin. 10 As it is written:
    “There is no one righteous, not even one;
    11 there is no one who understands;
    there is no one who seeks God.
    12 All have turned away,
    they have together become worthless;
    there is no one who does good,
    not even one.”[b]
    13 “Their throats are open graves;
    their tongues practice deceit.”[c]
    “The poison of vipers is on their lips.”[d]
    14 “Their mouths are full of cursing and bitterness.”[e]
    15 “Their feet are swift to shed blood;
    16 ruin and misery mark their ways,
    17 and the way of peace they do not know.”[f]
    18 “There is no fear of God before their eyes.”[g]


    19 Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, so that every mouth may be silenced and the whole world held accountable to God. 20 Therefore no one will be declared righteous in God’s sight by the works of the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of our sin.
    But now apart from the law the righteousness of God has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. 22 This righteousness given through faith in[h] Jesus Christ to all who believe.

    There is no difference between Jew and Gentile, 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 and all are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus.25 God presented Christ as a sacrifice of atonement,[i] through the shedding of his blood—to be received by faith. He did this to demonstrate his righteousness, because in his forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished— 26 he did it to demonstrate his righteousness at the present time, so as to be just and the one who justifies those who have faith in Jesus.

    Where, then, is boasting? It is excluded. Because of what law? The law that requires works? No, because of the law that requires faith.28 For we maintain that a person is justified by faith apart from the works of the law. 29 Or is God the God of Jews only? Is he not the God of Gentiles too? Yes, of Gentiles too, 30 since there is only one God, who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through that same faith. 31 Do we, then, nullify the law by this faith? Not at all! Rather, we uphold the law.The verse says it is for "all who believe." Jesus told His disciples to preach what? Repent for the kingdom is at hand. And if they would not receive the message to kick the dust off their feet and move on. The call is to all,the Bible says that often.If people were incapable it would be unjust of God to say come to people who cannot respond. The Bible is both poetic,allegorical and literal. The problem is most people dont know which is which.


    This is talking about people who are under the law and that they were sinners and unable to keep the law 100% perfectly. We have a sinful nature,there is no question. And so blood sacrifices were needed to cover our because we do sin and we do go astray. But with the coming of Christ He became the sacrifice for sins,all sins. And when we put our faith in Him God no longer sees our sin.


    Those who are under the power of sin are those who do not understand, do not seek Him. That's the context of that passage.



    Last edited by SovereignGrace; May 18th, 2017 at 05:29 PM.
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    Instead of telling them God has a wonderful plan for their life - tell them who God is.
    Paul Washer

    God saved you for Himself; God saved you by Himself; God saved you from Himself
    .
    Paul Washer

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    Default Re: Lets Talk Free Choice

    Quote Originally Posted by BeyondET View Post
    Was that before or after appearing to Mary or was it while hanging out with his disciples eating fish on the beach?

    A clue for you, don't touch the merchandize.
    What is the merchandise?

    Following His resurrection, Jesus ascended to His Father after
    making several appearances
    to numerous people over forty days
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    Embrace the Grace and Rejoice in His Everlasting Mercy and Love

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    Default Re: Lets Talk Free Choice

    Quote Originally Posted by Desertsrose View Post

    Hi Angela,

    I love and respect you and consider you a sister in the Lord. I can only speak for myself, but I don't think the others are glorifying Free will either. We're just stating that it's a part of God's character and will to allow man to choose Him or reject Him.

    I would say that Salvation is about God and us. Without us there's no need for God to save anyone, but because we need to be saved and restored to a right relationship with Him, it's definitely about us as well. And I say will all my heart that God gets all the glory for saving mankind.

    And I think it's important that man know he can freely come to God to be saved. He said so.

    In many ways we would agree on how man is saved, but it's the details that get in the way of our total agreement.

    Instead of saying what you think we're saying, how about asking us. You could say, "so are you glorifying free will?" Or you could ask, "do you get any glory out of your choice?"

    Why can't both sides dialog and try to understand one another instead of assuming something? Why assume I glorify free will? I thank God for it, but I glorify Him. I thank Him for the ability to make a choice. He's worthy and we have no worth in and of ourselves.

    Jesus is the one that saves us.....He atoned for our sins. There's no other salvation, but in Him our Wonderful Savior.

    I haven't heard anyone on this thread even hint that their choice saves them, but I wouldn't be surprised if someone did because we all aren't perfect in our understanding.

    Just as you believe in what you think is correct, so do I. So as I respect you, please respect me.

    Can we not still get along without assumptions? Ask if anyone here thinks that God is at their beck and call. Don't assume it because you don't like the way we believe.

    Love ya.........!!!
    Fallen man has a will. And that will willfully rejects Him. He's His enemy, he's a God-hater.
    I have given God countless reasons not to love me. None of them has been strong enough to change Him.
    Paul Washer

    Instead of telling them God has a wonderful plan for their life - tell them who God is.
    Paul Washer

    God saved you for Himself; God saved you by Himself; God saved you from Himself
    .
    Paul Washer

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    Senior Member Desertsrose's Avatar
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    Default Re: Lets Talk Free Choice

    Quote Originally Posted by preacher4truth View Post
    ...wonder what happened to that jailer, that he would do such a thing?



    But about midnight Paul and Silas were praying and singing hymns of praise to God, and the prisoners were listening to them; and suddenly there came a great earthquake, so that the foundations of the prison house were shaken; and immediately all the doors were opened and everyone’s chains were unfastened.


    When the jailer awoke and saw the prison doors opened, he drew his sword and was about to kill himself, supposing that the prisoners had escaped. But Paul cried out with a loud voice, saying, “Do not harm yourself, for we are all here!” And he called for lights and rushed in, and trembling with fear he fell down before Paul and Silas, and after he brought them out, he said, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?”


    They said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household.” And they spoke the word of the Lord to him together with all who were in his house. And he took them that very hour of the night and washed their wounds, and immediately he was baptized, he and all his household.
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    Ezekiel 18:23 Do I have any pleasure in the death of the wicked,” declares the Lord God, “rather than that he should turn from his ways and live?

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    Default Re: Lets Talk Free Choice

    Quote Originally Posted by SovereignGrace View Post
    Fallen man has a will. And that will willfully rejects Him. He's His enemy, he's a God-hater.

    And yet God loves them, Jesus died for them and says, "Father forgive them for they know not what they do."

    And.......


    For while we were still helpless, at the right time Christ died for the ungodly. For one will hardly die for a righteous man; though perhaps for the good man someone would dare even to die. But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from the wrath of God through Him. For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life. And not only this, but we also exult in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received the reconciliation. Romans 5:6-11
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    Ezekiel 18:23 Do I have any pleasure in the death of the wicked,” declares the Lord God, “rather than that he should turn from his ways and live?

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    Default Re: Lets Talk Free Choice

    Quote Originally Posted by Depleted View Post
    Cool! Then please tell, what did you think out before you chose salvation? What were the pros and cons?

    (As many times as I've asked this, the question has been completely ignored. Will my streak continue?)
    I read the Bible i was taking in the Laws which revealed to me that i was guilty of sins.. But i had to agree with the Law that it was good and correct before i felt guilty..

    I read the Bible which told me of the Way God had made for me to be redeemed by the Atonement of the LORD Jesus Christ and i just through it was the most awesome loving thing i had ever read, So i loved the Way God had made for me to be forgiven so i embraced it with joy..

    But in both areas i had to agree with the message that the Bible was giving me.. I was not a calvinist zombie who had no control over my own thoughts..

    So there you go Depleted.. your question answered..

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    Default Re: Lets Talk Free Choice

    Quote Originally Posted by Depleted View Post
    And if you weren't so busy proving your point, you would have noticed I disagree with you on if there was will or choice. And if you had bothered reading anything I've written, (including what I wrote that the above is your response), you would at least know what I believe about free will and choice. And if you can tell me your pro and con list on how you, personally, made the most important decision in your life at the time of that decision, I might actually believe anything else you say. I personally don't think I'll have to revisit anything you say, because you're busy proving you saved yourself. You're also busy proving that yours is the only voice of reason, when clearly you haven't bothered listening to any voice but your own.
    Well then stop replying to me....

    When i see a thread i respond to a thread.. And if someone reponds to my thoughts i will usually respond.. I am under no obligation to read every post in a thread to respond to the Opening post of a thread.. So if you think i am obliged to read all your posts then you have a delusional level of belief in your own self importance..

    Anyone who thinks people are going to sit down and read hundereds of posts on a thread before responding to the opening question is not someone i want to respond to anymore anyway..

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