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They find love in them. The kind of love that accepts "we're all sinners in need of God." The kind of love that helps them learn how to get past that sin. The kind of love that doesn't hold their nose high and say, "At least I'm not that."
The largest church in our local presbytery happens to be right smack in the middle of the homosexual community in Philly. The homosexual community can't quite figure out what to do about them. On the one hand, they're teaching it is a sin, but a sin like any other sin. A sin that can be healed, like any other sin area.
On the other hand, it's the only place in the entire city that brings meals, fellowship, and day-to-day help to people dying of AIDS. Not even the homosexual community wants to do that. And it is reaching people with sexual sin. They have a ministry for that. Included in that ministry is counseling. And included in that counseling is learning to forgive whoever caused the path to the sexual sin. (Often caused by same-sex rape or incest to children.)
Homosexuals are broken people. Terribly broken people. We don't turn away the broken, but that's not the same thing as agreeing that any particular sin is okay either.
What do you do, if you're one of the broken people who sees another broken person in your group becoming healed of the brokenness? That's why the homosexual community can't quite figure out what to do about that church.
We don't think homosexuality is worse-than.
The largest church in our local presbytery happens to be right smack in the middle of the homosexual community in Philly. The homosexual community can't quite figure out what to do about them. On the one hand, they're teaching it is a sin, but a sin like any other sin. A sin that can be healed, like any other sin area.
On the other hand, it's the only place in the entire city that brings meals, fellowship, and day-to-day help to people dying of AIDS. Not even the homosexual community wants to do that. And it is reaching people with sexual sin. They have a ministry for that. Included in that ministry is counseling. And included in that counseling is learning to forgive whoever caused the path to the sexual sin. (Often caused by same-sex rape or incest to children.)
Homosexuals are broken people. Terribly broken people. We don't turn away the broken, but that's not the same thing as agreeing that any particular sin is okay either.
What do you do, if you're one of the broken people who sees another broken person in your group becoming healed of the brokenness? That's why the homosexual community can't quite figure out what to do about that church.
We don't think homosexuality is worse-than.
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Not true. My denomination used to be part of what was "United Presbyterian." It used to be assumed if you were Presbyterian, you were reformed. My denomination left them over if women could become elders. They decided to let women be elders, so we broke off. And, at the break off, they became Presbyterian Church of the USA, (PC-USA) and we became Presbyterian Church in (or of, always forget which) America. (PCA.) Well, many folks stuck with them, but still stuck with being reformed. Some would accept women teaching elders, (sort of like pastor, mostly teach), while others wouldn't. Both sides wanted to stay reformed.
And then it eroded from there to 1-2 years ago it split again. This time over if homosexuals could be Teaching Elders, Ruling Elders, AND deacons/deaconess. PC-USA accepted they could be all of the above, so the others had to leave.
It's really not a reformed/non-reformed issue. It's a "let's keep up with modern culture, instead of God" issue. Reformed doesn't always mean we make the right decision.
(Still think the stupidest reason my denomination split was over the question of if Christ death on the cross was in place before or after God made the universe. I have a strong position over that question, but it's such a silly question, I'm not splitting over it.)
And then it eroded from there to 1-2 years ago it split again. This time over if homosexuals could be Teaching Elders, Ruling Elders, AND deacons/deaconess. PC-USA accepted they could be all of the above, so the others had to leave.
It's really not a reformed/non-reformed issue. It's a "let's keep up with modern culture, instead of God" issue. Reformed doesn't always mean we make the right decision.
(Still think the stupidest reason my denomination split was over the question of if Christ death on the cross was in place before or after God made the universe. I have a strong position over that question, but it's such a silly question, I'm not splitting over it.)
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I do get prevenient grace. It's God lets men decide of their own free will that they want to be saved. No matter how you slice it, it's "we choose."
And in that "we choose" comes "What if we want to unchoose?" And if you don't think that's a problem, you haven't been listening to the Arminian side. That's come up more than once by that side.
Never heard of prevenient grace before the last thread. Now I see it as a fancy way of saying, "God lets go of his sovereignty to let man choose him."
Now you're adding man's faith too.
And in that "we choose" comes "What if we want to unchoose?" And if you don't think that's a problem, you haven't been listening to the Arminian side. That's come up more than once by that side.
Never heard of prevenient grace before the last thread. Now I see it as a fancy way of saying, "God lets go of his sovereignty to let man choose him."
Now you're adding man's faith too.
K
At one moment I think we're saying the same thing,the next we are not.Im not changing so who is? Simple,simple,simple truth. Holy Spirit,draws man,man responds and is saved by GOD not of himself.YOu are throwing things out there too that are not true in that I have never said man saves himself.
Im not a liar Lynn and I dont appreciate you of accusing me of being one.Thats very immature to me. I have never called you a liar,nor would I. When I quote from the Institutes you say you dont know the context. When I post the whole thing so you can know the context it still isn't right. I dont get it.
There is no game Lynn,Ive been upfront about what I believe and I said I would not change my mind.Calvin says God bars the way for some people. Then someone said God doesn't man does.So who is right,Calvin or God? I have said where I am stuck and you even said the same to forth yourself.If God elected some then others are made for destruction.They were created for that reason only.Now you can call me a liar all day.I do not care.No one is going to convince me God created people for destruction and others for heaven. People have a choice and they cannot blame God for their choice.
Quote "Just don't expect me to trust anything you say because of the amount of lying you've done with what we're saying"
Ridiculous Lynn Ive posted verses,Ive asked questions,Ive answered posts Ive done everything I could to see it your way. I cannot. The Gospel is for all,the Bible says so.Jesus died for all or He died in vein. If you think that makes me a liar I cannot change that. Charges are bought against both sides and I have not called you a liar.I simply say "no I dont believe that" and explain why.
Quote " And that definitely includes the junk about "I'm trying to understand." Bupkus!"
Understanding does not mean me changing my mind.I made that clear from the first. I say "well if some are elected then some are made for destruction" oh no,no thats not true!!! How is that not true? This is the tail chasing that I am getting tired of.
Quote " not the constant line of junk circling in your head!"
Thanks I appreciate that your opinion of me is so low.