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Thread: Hey Evangelical/Pentacostal/Charismatic types...

  1. #41
    Member Andycross's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hey Evangelical/Pentacostal/Charismatic types...

    Quote Originally Posted by wolfwint View Post
    This means everybody who is sick, is because of his Lack Oma faith ore hist disobidient. Tell this all the suffering christians, special the poor which have no money to pay for medicine ore doc. That it is their own fault!
    This doctrine is a false doctrine. And to all which supporting this few. Your may forgot that all sick people which where healed finaly died because of another deseases, very few maby because of their age.
    All healings and miracles had the purpose to reveal God's Power and for His Glory! But not for to build up a desease and sickness free World. This we will have in heaven but not on earth. Of course we can pray for an sick person to be healed. But to get healed is not promissed. As some teaches and wake up false expectations and false hope, which leads finally to misstrust to God and to disapointness.
    Ye hath little faith
    Andycross

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    Default Re: Hey Evangelical/Pentacostal/Charismatic types...

    Quote Originally Posted by wolfwint View Post
    Today people taught that it is normal that Christians are health(without sickness ore handycap). And if not they are disobidient ore have lack on faith. This doctrine I cant find in the Bible!
    totally agree with you on this point bro!

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    Senior Member Johnny_B's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hey Evangelical/Pentacostal/Charismatic types...

    Quote Originally Posted by feelhim View Post
    Why doesn't God heal amputees or severely vegetabled people (like quadriplegic people who can't speak) through prayer when mountains are supposed to be moved through prayer? Why are modern, documented miracles just cases where the odds were severely stacked against a possibility, but the outcome was still medically and scientifically explainable. For example, John Doe having cancer with a 40% chance of survival and surviving. Could have been God...but it could have been his 40% chance of survival.

    This is a question that was just thrown at me recently and idk how to deal with it. Please help haha.

    All of what you see on TV is for show and to make money. God can heal and He does, He just does not answer certain calls. The Lord healed in the OT, Gospels, Acts, epistles and continues today or as some call it, Acts 29. The Lord has not changed His nature and He does not perform on demand for the
    benefit of men.

    Here's the sad part, Oral Roberts had the gift of healing, my ex-wife was bow legged and her mom took her to an Oral Roberts tent revival. He prayed for her, nothing happened, you have to understand that she was so bow legged that they could place a tupperware bowl between her legs. So her mom took her home, think oh well I tried to do something, he put her to bed and the next morning when they woke up, her legs were/are straightened out, no more bow in her legs. Then Roberts began to make a big production out of it and the Lord would not answer a certain call or perform on demand. Then to keep the ministry going, that's when all the madness started and we have what we have today.

    The Lord has not changed His nature, He will not be a puppet to men for the benefit of men. In the end all will be healed, with a glorified body.
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    John 6:63, 65 "It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh is no help at all. The words that I have spoken to you are spirit and life....65 And he said, “This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless it is granted him by the Father.”

    I Corinthians 4:7 "For who sees anything different in you? What do you have that you did not receive? If then you received it, why do you boast as if you did not receive it?"

    Born in the Spirit & word, granted by the Father. EE-TEOW




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    Default Re: Hey Evangelical/Pentacostal/Charismatic types...

    This means everybody who is sick, is because of his Lack Oma faith ore hist disobidient
    No, they just don't know what Jesus has paid for them to have and/or how to walk in what Jesus paid for us to have.

    It's just like a little kid learning to tie his shows... at first the kids doesn't believe it's even possible to tie one's shows... but then he is shown how and he starts "doing" is (not trying, but DOING) and before long he starts seeing (understanding) how to do it and after a while longer he is very able to tie his own shoes.

    Now, there are those that are taught the God's Word does not promise health and at least having enough money to get by decently rather than being on welfare (this is coupled with WORK... God says if a man won't work, he shouldn't eat - 2 Thessalonians 3:10 )... and those people have been taught wrongly and as a result they choose to be ignorant cause they just believing what they are told without studying for themselves to see what God promised.

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    Default Re: Hey Evangelical/Pentacostal/Charismatic types...

    Mel Bond has a ministry where G-d chooses to heal through him at times.
    It doesn't just happen, as with the rest of the christian faith, the time we spend on our knees
    in prayer is related to His Presence in our lives outside the prayer closet.

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    Default Re: Hey Evangelical/Pentacostal/Charismatic types...

    I do not believe in healing services because so much of it is fake and for money. On the other hand, God does heal today, and it does take faith. Here is my true story believe it or not. Whenever I would get sick I would pray, with Jesus stripes I am healed, I did this many times and never saw any difference. Anyway, one night I was sick as a dog and rolling around on the bed and saying, with Jesus stripes I am healed. Suddenly I just stopped and said to myself, this is not working. Instantly Jesus begin to speak to me, He said, you told the truth, it is not working and it is not working because you do not believe it. I was somewhat irritated and said back, if I didn't believe it I would not be saying it over and over. Then Jesus said back to me, you do believe it about 95%, it is that 5% that is keeping it from happening. As He said that, a verse was immediately placed in my mind, "if you doubt not". I realized that Jesus was saying that I had to be totally convinced, and I said to Him, no one can believe like that. He said to me, yes you can. I suddenly believed what He said, it was like reaching up and grabbing a bull by the horns, something hit my bloodstream with power and I immediately begin to get better. I felt so strong that at one point I said, I cannot be this strong, the Lord said to me, that is not your strength that is My strength. I woke up feeling great. I am sharing this so that folks can know that it is possible to be healed.

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    Default Re: Hey Evangelical/Pentacostal/Charismatic types...

    Quote Originally Posted by Rockrz View Post
    No, they just don't know what Jesus has paid for them to have and/or how to walk in what Jesus paid for us to have.
    And what of those who do and are still disabled or diseased?

    It's just like a little kid learning to tie his shows... at first the kids doesn't believe it's even possible to tie one's shows... but then he is shown how and he starts "doing" is (not trying, but DOING) and before long he starts seeing (understanding) how to do it and after a while longer he is very able to tie his own shoes.
    I have never met a little kid who did not believe it possible to tie his SHOES. He just recognises that HE cannot. And then he learns how to do it.

    But I have met many who believed that the Lord would heal them. And He did not.

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    Default Re: Hey Evangelical/Pentacostal/Charismatic types...

    Mel Bond has a ministry where G-d chooses to heal through him at times.
    It's OK... you can spell out GOD

    He won't be mad at'cha and it's not being disrespectful.

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    Default Re: Hey Evangelical/Pentacostal/Charismatic types...

    Quote Originally Posted by Rockrz View Post
    No, they just don't know what Jesus has paid for them to have and/or how to walk in what Jesus paid for us to have.

    It's just like a little kid learning to tie his shows... at first the kids doesn't believe it's even possible to tie one's shows... but then he is shown how and he starts "doing" is (not trying, but DOING) and before long he starts seeing (understanding) how to do it and after a while longer he is very able to tie his own shoes.

    Now, there are those that are taught the God's Word does not promise health and at least having enough money to get by decently rather than being on welfare (this is coupled with WORK... God says if a man won't work, he shouldn't eat - 2 Thessalonians 3:10 )... and those people have been taught wrongly and as a result they choose to be ignorant cause they just believing what they are told without studying for themselves to see what God promised.
    You seem to know everyone here and you have a prideful spirit, because everyone that does not believe like you, is denying the truth. Yet you offer no Scripture, so lets look at two Scripture that use the word healed.

    Isaiah 53:5 But he was pierced for our transgressions; he was crushed for our iniquities; upon him was the chastisement that brought us peace, and with his wounds we are healed.

    It is clear by the context that we are healed from our transgressions, our iniquities, that chastisement on Him of being pierced and crushed, brought us peace and by those wounds we are healed from our transgressions and iniquities by those wounds. The context says nothing about physical health, it's about spiritual health. Let's look at what Peter says about this verse.

    I Peter 2:24He himself bore our sins in his body on the tree, that we might die to sin and live to righteousness. By his wounds you have been healed.

    Peter
    summarizes that verse, wrapping up transgressions and iniquities into sins. He explains what the peace is that the prophet was talking about, living righteous or living rightly before the Lord and how that happened. By His wounds you/we have been healed, healed from sin to righteousness, no mention of health here either. This is not a guarantee of health in the physical body or a guarantee that the Lord will heal physical sickness, it is the guarantee of spiritual health from spiritual sickness, sins. What you are saying would mean that there was no healing before the cross and that is not true, there were many healings before the cross in the OT and the Gospels all before the cross.
    John 6:63, 65 "It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh is no help at all. The words that I have spoken to you are spirit and life....65 And he said, “This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless it is granted him by the Father.”

    I Corinthians 4:7 "For who sees anything different in you? What do you have that you did not receive? If then you received it, why do you boast as if you did not receive it?"

    Born in the Spirit & word, granted by the Father. EE-TEOW




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    Default Re: Hey Evangelical/Pentacostal/Charismatic types...

    God does as he pleases. Sometimes he performs a miracle and other times he does not. Be wary of people who say your not healed because you don't have enough faith. It is simply not true. One lady who turned blind from a degenerative eye disease has wrote some books, and her life is a testimony even though she was not healed. She has taught me about rejoicing and that's how I came to the conclusion that rejoicing is a choice. Her name is Jennifer Rothschild. I would encourage you to look her up and read one of her books.
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    Default Re: Hey Evangelical/Pentacostal/Charismatic types...

    You seem to know everyone here and you have a prideful spirit
    That's your false, erroneous opinion... but thanks for participating anyway




    This is not a guarantee of health in the physical body or a guarantee that the Lord will heal physical sickness
    That's your false, erroneous opinion... but thanks for participating anyway. satan really likes it when those who say they belive the Bible spread his lies for him


    You read God's Word with a thick set of religious, carnal minded, man-made religion reading glasses.

    So, that's no problem for me because I've learned how to receive health from the Lord and have not been sick in years so you've come way to late to try to convince me that God does not heal physically because... He does for me!

    For you? Obviously you do not believe God heals physically... so you'll never be bothered with it.




    God does as he pleases. Sometimes he performs a miracle and other times he does not.
    No, God is not a liar and He said He watches over His Word to perform it.

    He heals me... but He won't heal you because you reject that part of God's plan of salvation... so, healing does not apply to you because this is how you believe.

    Hope that works out for you and medical science is failing at a very rapid pace considering incurable sickness is one of the things God said would be happening in the end times.

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    Default Re: Hey Evangelical/Pentacostal/Charismatic types...

    Hi Cherie: I would agree not to let people judge your faith, however Jesus personally told me that I was not healed because my faith was not correct. Jesus made most of His healings conditional according to the faith of the person making the request.

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    Default Re: Hey Evangelical/Pentacostal/Charismatic types...

    So, why not get a list of healing scriptures and think about them, speak them, praise God they are true for you, act on them...?

    Romans 8:11
    But IF the Spirit of Him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you (allowed to live in us), He that raised up Jesus Christ from the dead shall also quicken (energize, make alive) your mortal body by His Spirit that lives in you. (see 2 Corinthians 3:17 – where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty, freedom!)

    1 Peter 2:24
    Jesus carried our sins in his own body on the cross, so that we, being dead to sin, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes you were healed.

    Matthew 8:17

    That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by Esaias the prophet, saying, Himself took our infirmities, and bare our sicknesses.

    Isaiah 53:4, 5
    Jesus has carried our grief (pain, anxiety, calamity, disease, sickness), and carried our sorrows (anguish, affliction, feelings of pain, sadness and sorrow): yet we did esteem Him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted....but He was wounded (to wound, to break, be slain or killed) for our transgressions, He was bruised (crush, destroy, oppress, to collapse) for our iniquities: the punishment (violence, rebuke) of our peace was upon Him; and with His stripes we are healed. (He took our wounds, so we could take his wholeness & health in every area of life)

    Proverbs 4:20-23
    Attend to My words; incline your ear unto My sayings....let them not depart from your eyes; keep them in the midst of your heart....for they are life unto those that find them, and health to all their flesh....keep your heart with all diligence; for out of it flow the forces of life.

    James 5:15
    The prayer of faith shall save the sick (from being sick!)

    Exodus 15:26

    If you will diligently listen to the voice of the LORD your God, and will do that which is right in His sight, and will give ear to His commandments, and keep all His statutes, I will not put any diseases upon you, which I have brought upon the Egyptians: for I am the LORD that heals you.

    Exodus 23:24-26

    You shall not bow down to their gods, nor serve them, nor do their works: but you shall utterly overthrow them, and destroy their images.
    And you shall serve Adonai your God, and He shall bless your food and drink; and I will take sickness away from the midst of you.
    There shall nothing cast their young, nor be barren, in thy land: and you will live out the full span of your lives.

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    Senior Member Johnny_B's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hey Evangelical/Pentacostal/Charismatic types...

    Hobart E. Freeman wrote a great book, "An Introduction to the Old Testament Prophets" He began to follow the WoF leaders and this was the final result. Not saying it was the WoF leaders fault, but it is the result of believing whole heartedly in that doctrine.

    "Two weeks before this matter was to come to court, Freeman died at his Shoe Lake home of bronchial pneumonia and congestive heart failure complicated by an ulcerated gangrenous leg, which in the weeks preceding had forced him to preach sitting down. He had refused all medical help,[42] even to the removal of the bandages so his leg could be cleaned.[43]

    Previously in Faith for Healing, Freeman had said that "To claim healing for the body and then to continue to take medicine is not following our faith with corresponding action ... When genuine faith is present, it alone will be sufficient for it will take the place of medicines and other aids." [44]
    Freeman's death was not reported for at least 13 hours due to an all-night prayer vigil for his resurrection. He was buried in a pine box with no public viewing and no graveside or memorial service.[45] For some time afterwards, his wife, June Freeman (d. 29 January 2000), left his suit over the end of the bed, expecting him to one day walk in and have need of it.[43] She soon came to accept his death as the will of God, and encouraged the congregation to persist in their faith."

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hobart_Freeman
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    John 6:63, 65 "It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh is no help at all. The words that I have spoken to you are spirit and life....65 And he said, “This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless it is granted him by the Father.”

    I Corinthians 4:7 "For who sees anything different in you? What do you have that you did not receive? If then you received it, why do you boast as if you did not receive it?"

    Born in the Spirit & word, granted by the Father. EE-TEOW




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    Default Re: Hey Evangelical/Pentacostal/Charismatic types...

    Wow really? There were a lot of great replies in this thread, but there were an equal amount (if not more) awful comments in this thread. Did this last election just completely ruin the internet to the point that you can't even safely bring a question (a great question at that) to a CHRISTIAN forum without everyone's cognitive dissonance and hurt feelings going through the roof? Yeah, a vegetabled person. I said it. No regrets. I'm not talking about quadriplegics being vegetabled. I'm talking about worse case scenarios where people are quadriplegics AND vegetabled. People who are severely burned from head-to-toe who can barely function from day to day. Whatever. In other words, people who REALLY have it bad (and there are a lot of those people in existence). Get a grip, people.

    That being said. I wanted to reply to every awesome post but there were just too many, as well as people who didn't understand the whole "real miracles and not things that could have gone either way" point. Not saying those people are ignorant, it's an easy point to miss.

    In other words, my question was why don't supernatural miracles happen? Why aren't limbs miraculously restored? Why don't severe burns miraculously heal? There has been documented cases of people's hearts beating so slow that they are pronounced dead and finally wake up in a morgue or funeral home, even buried. There are cases where people's cancer goes away with no treatment (can actually be scientifically explained). These aren't necessarily miracles. They could just be nature doing some rare/freak stuff, or they could really be God working a miracle.

    I guess the question boils down to...why does God only seem to only intervene in circumstances where it COULD be Him, but it could also NOT be Him.

    Right now the best answers I have seen are Willie's and everyone's answers like his.

    The whole "you gotta have faith for miracles to work" doesn't really seem to apply here, as there are just too many of these severely disabled, disfigured, pain-drenched people for someone to honestly say that none of them have had as much faith as a Pentecostal preacher on a Sunday morning, or that their families who pray for them don't.

    Without a doubt, entire CHURCHES could pray for these people, and no miracles will happen...but we can all pray for a church member with cancer and at least expect a 50/50 chance. 50% they don't make it, and 50% God works a miracle.

    Again, I'm not meaning for any of this to sound offensive, idk why it would as I am a Christian who has believed in miracles my whole life. I'm just being real about an issue that people seem to go crazy over. It's a question that has me wondering why. If it didn't, I wouldn't bring it up.

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    Senior Member wolfwint's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hey Evangelical/Pentacostal/Charismatic types...

    Quote Originally Posted by Rockrz View Post
    That's your false, erroneous opinion... but thanks for participating anyway






    That's your false, erroneous opinion... but thanks for participating anyway. satan really likes it when those who say they belive the Bible spread his lies for him


    You read God's Word with a thick set of religious, carnal minded, man-made religion reading glasses.

    So, that's no problem for me because I've learned how to receive health from the Lord and have not been sick in years so you've come way to late to try to convince me that God does not heal physically because... He does for me!

    For you? Obviously you do not believe God heals physically... so you'll never be bothered with it.






    No, God is not a liar and He said He watches over His Word to perform it.

    He heals me... but He won't heal you because you reject that part of God's plan of salvation... so, healing does not apply to you because this is how you believe.

    Hope that works out for you and medical science is failing at a very rapid pace considering incurable sickness is one of the things God said would be happening in the end times.
    Please give the scripture where our heavenly father gave us the promisse that we as his children never will be sick! I cant find it except when we are in heaven.
    Be glad that he healed you! But dont judge others!
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    Default Re: Hey Evangelical/Pentacostal/Charismatic types...

    First off, nobody is saying we will never experience opposition. We are told in 1 Peter 5:8 to be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walks about, seeking whom he may devour... "may" as in who is going to allow him to attack with success.

    We are told in Mark 4:13-20 that the devil seeks to take God's Word away and choke God's Word out of our lives so God's Word is not fruitful or becomes ineffective.

    Health is not automatic... once the enemy gets people to accept it, they bare fruit unto being sick because they accept it as being something they cannot do anything about. That's not true because all things are possible with God... but we are going to have to walk by faith (in what God promised) and not by sight (2 Corinthians 5:7) meaning there is most likely going to be some time when you are believing God's promises without any physical evidence that God's promises are true for you.

    I've experienced that in other areas of my life, but thankfully the way health was presented to me years ago was that is was a done deal, Jesus had taken my sickness / disease upon Himself so that I would not have to have it and I do not have to have it... even if it tries to come on me.

    God's promises are God's Word, God's Word is His will, otherwise He would not have promised it... God's Word changes things because God's power in in His Word. If anybody has a problem with that need to take that up with God and ask the Lord to forgive them for thinking God's Word is not true.... repent for calling God a liar!

    The following scriptures specifically speak to physical healing... either you believe what God said and you make up your mind His Word is true and you start seeking His wisdom concerning how to get there from here, or you don't:

    James 5:14,15
    Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord:
    And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him.

    Note: If you have no elders in your church that can pray the "prayer of faith" you might call around to some other churches in the area.

    Proverbs 4:20-23

    Attend to My words; incline your ear unto My sayings....let them not depart from your eyes; keep them in the midst of your heart....for they are life unto those that find them, and health to all their flesh....keep your heart with all diligence; for out of it flow the forces of life.

    Matthew 8:17
    That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by Esaias the prophet, saying, Himself took our infirmities, and bare our sicknesses.

    Isaiah 53:4, 5
    Jesus has carried our grief (pain, anxiety, calamity, disease, sickness), and carried our sorrows (anguish, affliction, feelings of pain, sadness and sorrow): yet we did esteem Him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted....but He was wounded (to wound, to break, be slain or killed) for our transgressions, He was bruised (crush, destroy, oppress, to collapse) for our iniquities: the punishment (violence, rebuke) of our peace was upon Him; and with His stripes we are healed. (He took our wounds, so we could take his wholeness & health in every area of life)

    NOTE: Go look up the word "grief" in the Hebrew and see that is includes sickness / disease.

    The devil will send many your way to tell you this is all false which is what the devil always does... opposes God's promises. When he does this, it's a sign that he is worried that you will in fact accept God's promises and become well at some point in the not too distant future.

    Here's a couple more to consider concerning learning WHAT to do...

    James 1:5-8
    If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him.
    But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering. For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed.
    For let not that man think that he shall receive any thing of the Lord.
    A double minded man is unstable in all his ways.


    And, God is not putting sickness or disease on anyone to teach them... He uses His Word and the Holy Spirit to teach

    James 1:13

    Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempts he any man:

    Tempts = testings, temptations, trials... God is not the One bring these things on people and it's satan running PSYOP (psychological operations, or psychological warfare) to spread false information to try and get people to believe God is putting it on them because people will lay down their resistance if they think it's God putting it on them for some reason.

    At any rate, I will agree and believe with you that your health returns quickly and that you become able to walk free is sickness which does include utilizing common sense things such as eating right, getting plenty of exercise, taking some good daily vitamins to help your body get plenty of nourishment (you'd have to eat a bunch of different types of food to get this), staying out of strife and stress, getting plenty of sleep.... and otherwise take care of your body which is the Temple of the Holy Ghost (1 Corinthians 6:15-20)

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    Senior Member wolfwint's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hey Evangelical/Pentacostal/Charismatic types...

    Well, at first thanks God present i am not sick ore have so far i know any desease.
    The James 5 lets no opening for your view to call whom you want. The other verses are out of context and purpose and supporting not a desease and sicknessfree christian life on earth. This was not to Paul's time and is not today.
    The other point is. Does already healed people again become sick ? I am working in Hospital. Do you believe that already healed people only are dying because of old age?
    Even then they die because the body is not working anymore. And i met many old age people which comes first time in their old age to the Hospital. They had a healthy life without beeing christians.
    What you are promoting is not based on the scripture and you bring believers in a false hope with promisses which God never gave.

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    Default Re: Hey Evangelical/Pentacostal/Charismatic types...

    Sorry i forgot to adress my post to you Rockrz

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    Default Re: Hey Evangelical/Pentacostal/Charismatic types...

    "Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus? Hath not the potter power over the clay...?"
    posthuman likes this.
    And they went out and preached that men should repent.
    (Mark 6:12)
    For whether is greater, he that sitteth at meat, or he that serveth? is not he that sitteth at meat? but I am among you as he that serveth. (Luke 22:27)

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