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Thread: Hey Evangelical/Pentacostal/Charismatic types...

  1. #101
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    Default Re: Hey Evangelical/Pentacostal/Charismatic types...

    My, my, and no one else does?
    Did I say that anywhere??? No, I did not...

    I can only speak for meself and nobody else on this matter.




    Who says yours is revelation knowledge?
    God does... I got it from Him, so go argue with Jesus...




    Who has the mind of Christ? ALL Christians.
    All Christians have access to the mind of Christ... but whether they use it or not depends on whether they reject His Word or not.



    many disagree with you about how and why God heals.
    Considering what God has said about this in His Word... whether they agree o not is not my problem nor is it of any concern because... I've cast all my care upon the Lord because HE cares for me, so I don't care (1 Peter 5:7)




    So you don't ever trust doctors? Only a fool would say that.
    Really? Are you claiming God is a liar when He said His Words are life unto those that find them, and health to all their flesh (Proverbs 4:20-23).

    Jesus is well able to keep someone well... I learned years ago that going to the doctor is like rolling the dice in Las Vegas.

    It's gambling, pure and simple and it's very quite comical that medical science (and science in general) claims they know what they are doing.

    Mankind's wisdom is failing... fast!

    The coming near future will make that very evident and we will see if those that trust the Lord first and foremost are the fools... or if those trusting in mankind's wisdom and abilities are fools.

    I'm banking on Jesus knowing what He's talkin 'bout... who are you trusting?

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    Default Re: Hey Evangelical/Pentacostal/Charismatic types...

    Quote Originally Posted by Rockrz View Post
    Did I say that anywhere??? No, I did not...

    I can only speak for meself and nobody else on this matter.






    God does... I got it from Him, so go argue with Jesus...






    All Christians have access to the mind of Christ... but whether they use it or not depends on whether they reject His Word or not.





    Considering what God has said about this in His Word... whether they agree o not is not my problem nor is it of any concern because... I've cast all my care upon the Lord because HE cares for me, so I don't care (1 Peter 5:7)






    Really? Are you claiming God is a liar when He said His Words are life unto those that find them, and health to all their flesh (Proverbs 4:20-23).

    Jesus is well able to keep someone well... I learned years ago that going to the doctor is like rolling the dice in Las Vegas.

    It's gambling, pure and simple and it's very quite comical that medical science (and science in general) claims they know what they are doing.

    Mankind's wisdom is failing... fast!

    The coming near future will make that very evident and we will see if those that trust the Lord first and foremost are the fools... or if those trusting in mankind's wisdom and abilities are fools.

    I'm banking on Jesus knowing what He's talkin 'bout... who are you trusting?
    I'm trusting the Biblical Jesus, not some made up version by someone who has yet to experience life.

  3. #103
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    Default Re: Hey Evangelical/Pentacostal/Charismatic types...

    Quote Originally Posted by Rockrz View Post
    Whether I do or not... does that change God's promises?

    Do His promises become untrue once someone has chillins???

    I keep running across people that discount God's promises as they descend in to worry and fear over their children... which is exactly how the devil gets an open door to do something to their children.

    Job said what he feared came upon him... he feared his children would get in to sin and be destroyed, and that's exactly what happened.

    In his defense, Job did not have the entire Word of God like we have today to know better and since he otherwise had a pure heart towards the Lord, God counted him as righteous.

    None the less... getting in to fear and worry is an open door to the devil and he will take advantage of those that do!
    You're so silly. "Worry or fear" has nothing to do with whether or not your child is going to be careless... or even dumb. LOL
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    I am the righteousness of God, in Christ Jesus.

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    Default Re: Hey Evangelical/Pentacostal/Charismatic types...

    "Worry or fear" has nothing to do with whether or not your child is going to be careless...
    Yeah, you obviously do not understand what fear is and what effect it has... therefore the devil is very happy that you have express your belief that fear is no big deal and cannot open the door to satan to do dastardly deeds.

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    Senior Member Johnny_B's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hey Evangelical/Pentacostal/Charismatic types...

    Quote Originally Posted by feelhim View Post
    Wow really? There were a lot of great replies in this thread, but there were an equal amount (if not more) awful comments in this thread. Did this last election just completely ruin the internet to the point that you can't even safely bring a question (a great question at that) to a CHRISTIAN forum without everyone's cognitive dissonance and hurt feelings going through the roof? Yeah, a vegetabled person. I said it. No regrets. I'm not talking about quadriplegics being vegetabled. I'm talking about worse case scenarios where people are quadriplegics AND vegetabled. People who are severely burned from head-to-toe who can barely function from day to day. Whatever. In other words, people who REALLY have it bad (and there are a lot of those people in existence). Get a grip, people.

    That being said. I wanted to reply to every awesome post but there were just too many, as well as people who didn't understand the whole "real miracles and not things that could have gone either way" point. Not saying those people are ignorant, it's an easy point to miss.

    In other words, my question was why don't supernatural miracles happen? Why aren't limbs miraculously restored? Why don't severe burns miraculously heal? There has been documented cases of people's hearts beating so slow that they are pronounced dead and finally wake up in a morgue or funeral home, even buried. There are cases where people's cancer goes away with no treatment (can actually be scientifically explained). These aren't necessarily miracles. They could just be nature doing some rare/freak stuff, or they could really be God working a miracle.

    I guess the question boils down to...why does God only seem to only intervene in circumstances where it COULD be Him, but it could also NOT be Him.

    Right now the best answers I have seen are Willie's and everyone's answers like his.

    The whole "you gotta have faith for miracles to work" doesn't really seem to apply here, as there are just too many of these severely disabled, disfigured, pain-drenched people for someone to honestly say that none of them have had as much faith as a Pentecostal preacher on a Sunday morning, or that their families who pray for them don't.

    Without a doubt, entire CHURCHES could pray for these people, and no miracles will happen...but we can all pray for a church member with cancer and at least expect a 50/50 chance. 50% they don't make it, and 50% God works a miracle.

    Again, I'm not meaning for any of this to sound offensive, idk why it would as I am a Christian who has believed in miracles my whole life. I'm just being real about an issue that people seem to go crazy over. It's a question that has me wondering why. If it didn't, I wouldn't bring it up.
    No it did not (the election), just a quick aside, how can a person that claims the name of Christ, want to vote someone in that is for government funded abortions or abortions in general and still say that they have the love of Christ in them? I see no love for the unborn child and those same leaders will argue that a murderer should not be put to death, because it's inhuman. The reasoning is backwards, they should be protecting the innocent unborn child, not the convicted murderer, where is the love/compassion for the victims family? So no the election did not ruin the internet, it brought the reality that people are to PC for reality. If someone is wrong it needs to be said, because if they are not told they are wrong, they will not know that need to change or seek the truth. My brother-in-law will say he is more spiritual now and he feel happier, then he'll say, "after all isn't that what Jesus wants for us?" I have to say no that is not what He wants for us to have peace with the Father. Any way, of the soap box.

    There are many that whole heartedly believe that the atonement has guaranteed healing from physical sickness and diseases in it. When it guarantees of healing from spiritual sickness and disease, which are trespasses, iniquities which verse 53:12 and Peter call, sin(s), these are what we are healed from, in the immediate sense. I used to be a big believer in the other view of the atonement, until I studied the origin of that belief and the context of what is being said in Isaiah 53:5, with-in the context of 53:13-53:12. Does the atonement have healing from physical sickness and disease? Yes! Is it realized here on earth? It can be, but it does not always happen, will it happen? Yes! We will all be healed from all sins, sickness and disease in that day, which some call the Messianic day, which is the blessed hope, the receiving of our glorified bodies, that will not have sins, disease, sickness or any spiritual or physical pain in it.

    We will be
    relieved of all the pains of these when we see face to face, no more looking in a mirror dimly, we will know as we are known. Our relationship with Christ is by faith at this time, but when we see Him face to face and know Him as we are known, what a glorious day that will be when we are relived of all the pain of this present world. We are restored to that relationship that Adam and Eve had of walking with the Lord in the garden, we will have that face to face relationship that we've been desiring all of our Christian life. That is why Paul says to encourage one another with these words of the blessed hope. Behold the old has passed away and all things have become new, Hallelujah to the King.

    Yes healing is guaranteed in the atonement, can it be realized here on earth? Yes! is it always? No. The ultimate healing is being delivered from
    death and being with the LORD forever.
    Grace777x70 and graceNpeace like this.
    John 6:63, 65 "It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh is no help at all. The words that I have spoken to you are spirit and life....65 And he said, “This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless it is granted him by the Father.”

    I Corinthians 4:7 "For who sees anything different in you? What do you have that you did not receive? If then you received it, why do you boast as if you did not receive it?"

    Born in the Spirit & word, granted by the Father. EE-TEOW




  6. #106
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    Default Re: Hey Evangelical/Pentacostal/Charismatic types...

    Does the atonement have healing from physical sickness and disease? Yes! Is it realized here on earth? It can be, but it does not always happen
    And... when it doesn't always happen, it's not the Lord's fault or Him deciding to not heal.

    Those that insist that God is withholding healing from them... will remain is whatever ailment they have.

    You don't bite the Hand that feeds you, jus sayin
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    Senior Member Johnny_B's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hey Evangelical/Pentacostal/Charismatic types...

    I for got to add how F. C. Jennings translates Isaiah 53:4-6

    "Surely the griefs the he bore were our own; the sorrows were
    oursthat He carried: yet we did count Him as stricken,* as smitten of God and afflicted. but our the transgressions for which He was pierced, ours iniquities for which He was crushed; ours is the peace-His the chastisement; ours is the healing-His were the wounds. All we, like sheep, have gone far astray, and Jehovah has caused to meet upon Him the iniquity done by us all."

    *Hebrew nahga, "to strike heavily." It is the word used for the plague of leprosy as in II Chronicles 26:20 "And Azariah the chief priest and all the priests looked at him, and there, on his forehead, he was leprous; so they thrust him out of that place. Indeed he also hurried to get out, because the Lord had struck him." Compare "The hand of God has struck me" Job 19:21.

    Jennings translation of these few verses driving the point home by, ours and He/Him as to what we contributed to His atoning death, we contributed transgresses, iniquities, sorrows, griefs and sin(s), yet He gave us peace, healing, life everlasting, restored fellowship
    with the Lord.
    John 6:63, 65 "It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh is no help at all. The words that I have spoken to you are spirit and life....65 And he said, “This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless it is granted him by the Father.”

    I Corinthians 4:7 "For who sees anything different in you? What do you have that you did not receive? If then you received it, why do you boast as if you did not receive it?"

    Born in the Spirit & word, granted by the Father. EE-TEOW




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    Default Re: Hey Evangelical/Pentacostal/Charismatic types...

    Quote Originally Posted by Rockrz View Post
    And... when it doesn't always happen, it's not the Lord's fault or Him deciding to not heal.

    Those that insist that God is withholding healing from them... will remain is whatever ailment they have.

    You don't bite the Hand that feeds you, jus sayin
    I agree. God is not the author of sickness nor does He with-hold it, nor does He create it so that He can "teach" His beloved children something. Can He use the sickness to bring out the reality of His love and grace for us that is in Christ? Yes!

    God is able to take anything the enemy has done and make known His love and grace for us in Christ. Sickness is the foul off-spring of sin which the devil is the father of.

    God no more with-holds healing from people then He with-holds the forgiveness of sins from them. These were purchased by the blood of the Lord Jesus Christ.

    Not all people will walk in the realities of the things that are ours in Christ while on this earth. We need to be careful to allow them to have their own faith before God. Whether it is for healing or if they believe God won't heal them for whatever reason. We can tear apart the very ones that the Lord died and bled for by how we speak about subjects such as healing.

    We need to have compassion on those that are sick and thus we will fulfill the law of Christ Himself.

    I believe this principle below applies to a lot of these areas and we need to let others have their own faith before God - at the place where they are with their walk with the Lord.

    Romans 14:22 (NASB)
    22 The faith which you have, have as your own conviction before God. Happy is he who does not condemn himself in what he approves.

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    Default Re: Hey Evangelical/Pentacostal/Charismatic types...

    Quote Originally Posted by Rockrz View Post
    And... when it doesn't always happen, it's not the Lord's fault or Him deciding to not heal.
    It is God who decides not to heal. Who else could? You are playing with words (and with God)

    Those that insist that God is withholding healing from them... will remain is whatever ailment they have.
    And those who pray believingly and receive no answer? What of them?

    You don't bite the Hand that feeds you, jus sayin
    Yes you 'jus say' a lot of rot.

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    Default Re: Hey Evangelical/Pentacostal/Charismatic types...

    Quote Originally Posted by Grace777x70 View Post
    I agree. God is not the author of sickness nor does He with-hold it, nor does He create it so that He can "teach" His beloved children something. Can He use the sickness to bring out the reality of His love and grace for us that is in Christ? Yes!


    Who then was the author of sickness? The Devil could not strike Job without the Lord's permission. Are we all like Job?

    God is able to take anything the enemy has done and make known His love and grace for us in Christ. Sickness is the foul off-spring of sin which the devil is the father of.
    But who built the fact that sin results in disease into creation? It was GOD.

    God no more with-holds healing from people then He with-holds the forgiveness of sins from them. These were purchased by the blood of the Lord Jesus Christ.
    Absolutely untrue. You would be suggesting that most who have received the forgiveness of sins in fact haven't. They exercise the same faith with regard to healing but are left unhealed. So what about forgiveness?

    Not all people will walk in the realities of the things that are ours in Christ while on this earth.
    Who determines what are 'the realities of the things that are ours in Christ'?


    We need to be careful to allow them to have their own faith before God. Whether it is for healing or if they believe God won't heal them for whatever reason. We can tear apart the very ones that the Lord died and bled for by how we speak about subjects such as healing.
    Yes and what about those who believe that God will heal, and He doesn't?

    We need to have compassion on those that are sick and thus we will fulfill the law of Christ Himself.
    Yes, and those who are 'well and have no need of a physician' may have cause to change their minds when they or their loved ones suffer a stroke, or mental illness of some kind.
    Last edited by valiant; May 19th, 2017 at 08:06 AM.

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    Default Re: Hey Evangelical/Pentacostal/Charismatic types...

    It is God who decides not to heal. Who else could? You are playing with words (and with God)
    No, I'm believing God is not a liar

    Others can do what they want, I'm receiving healing and it's mine... now!

    Because... God said so!



    And those who pray believingly and receive no answer? What of them?
    They need to read God's Word and learn HOW to receive. The answer is in the New Testament.



    Yes you 'jus say' a lot of rot.
    I'm repeating what God says in His Word... you you apparently have a problem with what He has said.

    I'd repent if I were you!




    Who then was the author of sickness? The Devil could not strike Job without the Lord's permission. Are we all like Job?
    God was the One Who put the hedge of protection around Job... and Job was the one that was in fear over his children and he kept doing the same sacrifice over and over.

    That would be like someone today saying to the Lord: "Lord, please forgive me...Lord, please forgive me...Lord, please forgive me...Lord, please forgive me..." never actually believing what God said and entering in to fear.

    Fear is an open door to satan and he will slap those around who are in fear and unbelief.

    We know God was not the One originating the trial Job experienced because of what He said in James 1:13 "Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man"

    This means, God is not the One Who broke down the hedge of protection against Job.... being in fear is what broke the hedge of protection which Job did out of ignorance as he had a pure heart towards the Lord.

    Surely you don't think God lied in James 1:13 do ya? The whole Job thing is a sacred cow for cherry pickers who do not accept the whole Word of God.




    But who built the fact that sin results in disease into creation? It was GOD.
    God did something about it thru Jesus... believe John 10:10

    God good... devil bad.




    They exercise the same faith with regard to healing but are left unhealed.
    Well, I exercised the faith I got from Jesus Christ when I got born again and received healing! It's HIS faith, so it does not fail.

    So, why would I want to be like what you are describing? This is why I don't take religious people seriously because they don't say what God says!




    Who determines what are 'the realities of the things that are ours in Christ'?
    Really? Do you even own a Bible???

    Sorry, I couldn't resist





    Yes and what about those who believe that God will heal, and He doesn't?
    Healing is part of Salvation... He's already given healing so those that keep believing they have not received will never receive until they decide to believe what God has already said and has already done.

    Did you get born again, and then keep believing, saying, thinking, and acting as though God refuses to let you get born again?

    No... you believed what God said about Salvation, you received it, and then you stated telling everyone you were born again and you started acting like you were born again and you started thinking like you were born again.

    Now, if you'll do the same where healing is concerned...




    Yes, and those who are 'well and have no need of a physician' may have cause to change their minds when they or their loved ones suffer a stroke, or mental illness of some kind.
    No weapon formed against me can prosper and every tongue that rises up against me... I condemn! (Isaiah 54:17)

    Can't speak for others, but I do not accept the blubbering lies of the devil... Jesus has already taken strokes, and mental illness intended for me... upon Himself so I would not have to have them.

    He truly is a GOOD Lord and Savior Who was manifest to destroy the works of the devil (1 John 3:8)

    It's too bad that some just accept the going to Heaven part believing that that's all God has done for them...
    Last edited by Rockrz; May 19th, 2017 at 12:26 PM.

  12. #112
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    Default Re: Hey Evangelical/Pentacostal/Charismatic types...

    The book of Job is the most mis-understood book in the bible. There are many views of it which shows that everything was in the hands of the devil before he stood before God. So, God doesn't use the devil as His own personal attack dog.

    For those interested in this subject Here is a great article. I like the fact that people can ask questions at the bottom of the article and I often learn a lot from there too.

    Job’s Grace Encounter





    Tradition has taught that Job endured unimaginable suffering with poise and noble patience. He was a giant of the faith who never said anything wrong, and he is a great example for us all to follow.
    Baloney.

    As we have seen in this series, Job was, at times, a self-righteous whiner who complained to high heaven. He blamed God for his troubles and even accused the Lord of being unjust.

    Yet somehow this makes me like Job more because I have gone through tough times and when I did I wrestled with the same sorts of thoughts he had.

    “God where are you? Lord, do you hate me? Why have you forsaken me? Do you even care?!”
    Silly stuff really, but understandable. In our moments of weakness we are all tempted to speak like this.

    The Book of Job records the dumb things people say when they go through hardships, ignorant statements like “God gives and takes away.” Sadly, we have paid more attention to the words of hurting men than the healing words of the Lord, and what he says in the Book of Job is, quite simply, amazing.

    What did God say?

    And the Lord said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil? (Job 1:8, KJV)

    As we have seen, Job was far from perfect, yet God calls him “a perfect and upright man.” Job was fearful and superstitious, yet God says, “That’s my guy.” A few verses later the Bible – God’s book – makes one of the most outrageous statements in history:

    In all this, Job did not sin by charging God with wrongdoing. (Job 1:22)

    Are you kidding me?!

    Job charged God with wrongdoing again and again. He said God was unjust (Job 27:2), had shot him full of poison arrows (Job 6:4), and made his life bitter (Job 27:2). He said so much dumb stuff that Elihu called him a nonsense-spouting ignoramus (see Job 34:35 and 35:16, especially in the Message Bible).

    Yet the official verdict, according to the Judge of all men and as recorded in scripture for all to see, is that Job said nothing wrong. According to the Bible Job didn’t blame God, even though he did.

    What’s going on? Is God mistaken in his assessment of Job? Is the Bible in error?

    Grace rewrites history

    God sees all things from the perspective of eternity. He sees the end from the beginning and he knows that Job is going to come through his trial and be radically changed by grace. Job is not righteous and perfect because his behavior is impeccable or because he speaks well or sacrifices animals. Job is righteous because God says so and what God says comes true.

    Think of Gideon cowering in the wine-press. “Mighty warrior,” says the angel of the Lord and even though it’s not true it becomes true because God says so.

    Why does God’s Word say Job did not sin even though he sinned again and again? Because love speaks to our true identity rather than our circumstances. Clothed with the righteousness that God gives, Job is not judged a sinner but a righteous man, even though his deeds were far from righteous.

    (If you find this hard to swallow, the Bible does the same thing in Hebrews 11 when it looks back on a bunch of murderers and adulterers and calls them heroes of the faith and makes no mention of their sins. Love keeps no record of wrongs (1 Cor 13:5))

    Job did not sin… (Job 1:22)

    This verse says little about the flawed character of Job and much about the gracious character of God whose story this really is.

    God does not treat Job as his sins deserve but relates to him on the basis of grace. This is good news for those of us who have sinned, like Job, and missed the mark. Your story may be one big disaster movie – one epic fail after another – but grace will change your story and give you a better ending than the one you deserve.

    Religion versus grace

    Not once through all this did Job sin; not once did he blame God. (Job 1:22, MSG)

    There are two ways to read this passage. DIY religion says, “See Job. Study Job. Be like Job.” But that way lies self-trust and disaster. Job wasn’t the self-made hero religion makes him out to be and neither are you. You’re simply not strong enough to face life’s trials on your own.

    But read this passage through the lens of grace and the message is, “See the love of God! Look what God does for sinners like Job!”

    It’s important you get this because if you put Job on a pedestal you’ll miss the grace of God. Sadly, that is what has happened in much of the church. By turning Job’s story into a flesh-glorifying pep talk, we have cut ourselves off from Christ and positioned ourselves for failure.

    To the degree we exalt Job we diminish grace.

    If Job was a perfect man, he had no need of God’s aid. But Job was an imperfect man with a very great need and when he finally saw this – after 40 long chapters of introspective pity-partying – he was greatly blessed. What the devil stole, God restored twofold. Don’t you love this? The devil knocked Job down, but God lifted him up. The devil sifted Peter, but God made him into an apostle.

    The devil may take your job, your health, your life, but God has the last word and ALL THINGS work out good for those who know his love. How do I know? Because God said so.

    The Book of Job isn’t about a good man going through bad times, but a good God who loves us through thick and thin and who desires to bless us no matter what we’ve said or done.

    That’s the real message of Job and that’s the good news of grace.

    Here is the link for those interested in looking at the questions on the article. There are also a few other articles on Job too that is grace-based.

    https://escapetoreality.org/2015/11/...ace-encounter/

    Here is another good article talking about "Is satan God's sheepdog?" which also talks about Job.

    https://escapetoreality.org/2015/10/...gods-sheepdog/
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    Default Re: Hey Evangelical/Pentacostal/Charismatic types...

    The devil may take your job, your health, your life...
    Ah, no... he may not!

    Things are very quite different under the New Covenant as we are IN CHRIST now and 'ol slewfoot has been defeated.

    The Lord has given His people access to His Presence (what true Grace is, the Spirit of Grace... not the stuff most TV preachers talk about) where the Lord is available to lead and guide us to deal wisely in ALL the affairs of life which enables us to avoid the vast majority of problems that are self inflicted thru ignorance of how God's Kingdom operates and what opens the door to the enemy to come in to our lives and start tearing things up.

    The answers are in the New Testament... but sadly, many are too busy to study God's Word for themselves and instead just tune in to their favorite TV preachers for the occasional cold snack that frequently leads to a false gospel and another jesus.

    The Lord warned us concerning things going on in the end times, but many do not heed these warnings so they are wide open to deception simply because they don't put God's Word first place in their lives.

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    Default Re: Hey Evangelical/Pentacostal/Charismatic types...

    Jesus is the will of the Father revealed in the New Covenant - not our own experiences.
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    Default Re: Hey Evangelical/Pentacostal/Charismatic types...

    Quote Originally Posted by Rockrz View Post
    No, I'm believing God is not a liar
    But God does not make any overall promises. Man twists the Scripture to make them seem so,

    Others can do what they want, I'm receiving healing and it's mine... now!
    I pray God might not have to teach you a lesson.
    ForthAngel likes this.

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    Default Re: Hey Evangelical/Pentacostal/Charismatic types...

    Quote Originally Posted by Rockrz View Post

    They need to read God's Word and learn HOW to receive. The answer is in the New Testament.
    Funny that so few find it. The truth is that the NT provides no answer. And if you cite James that has been tried and found wanting. He wrote while miracles were still prominent.



    I'm repeating what God says in His Word... you you apparently have a problem with what He has said.

    I'd repent if I were you!
    I find no promises of general healing in His word. You need to look at it in context.


    God was the One Who put the hedge of protection around Job... and Job was the one that was in fear over his children and he kept doing the same sacrifice over and over.
    I would say in godliness, not in fear, as the writer makes clear. But it shows me how you twist things.

    That would be like someone today saying to the Lord: "Lord, please forgive me...Lord, please forgive me...Lord, please forgive me...Lord, please forgive me..." never actually believing what God said and entering in to fear.
    You have a queer idea about sacrifices.

    Fear is an open door to satan and he will slap those around who are in fear and unbelief.
    So you don't believe in the fear of God? It figures.

    We know God was not the One originating the trial Job experienced because of what He said in James 1:13 "Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man"
    It WAS God who gave Satan the permission which started it. Try reading what it actually says,.

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    Default Re: Hey Evangelical/Pentacostal/Charismatic types...

    [QUOTE=Rockrz;3101006]

    We know God was not the One originating the trial Job experienced because of what He said in James 1:13 "Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man"

    This means, God is not the One Who broke down the hedge of protection against Job.... being in fear is what broke the hedge of protection which Job did out of ignorance as he had a pure heart towards the Lord.
    Job was an exception because God trusted him. He was not in fear until after Satan struck.

    Surely you don't think God lied in James 1:13 do ya? The whole Job thing is a sacred cow for cherry pickers who do not accept the whole Word of God.
    Or perhaps evidence of how shallow minded you are?


    God did something about it thru Jesus (sending disease as a consequence of sin)... believe John 10:10
    Jon 10.10 speaks of life. It has nothing to say about disease. That is your twisted interpretation.


    Well, I exercised the faith I got from Jesus Christ when I got born again and received healing! It's HIS faith, so it does not fail.
    so you are either highly favoured, or just plain lucky. But we shall see,

    So, why would I want to be like what you are describing? (They exercise the same faith with regard to healing but are left unhealed). (
    Maybe God just doesn't trust you?


    This is why I don't take religious people seriously because they don't say what God says!
    I say WHAT GOD SAYS not what I want Him to say.


    Healing is part of Salvation.
    Yes but not obtained until it is finalised,

    .. He's already given healing so those that keep believing they have not received will never receive until they decide to believe what God has already said and has already done.
    He has not already given healing en massetoChristians. He heals when He wills, and that is not often, except through special instruments for special reasons..

    Did you get born again, and then keep believing, saying, thinking, and acting as though God refuses to let you get born again?
    Thar is different. That IS God's salvation

    No... you believed what God said about Salvation, you received it, and then you stated telling everyone you were born again and you started acting like you were born again and you started thinking like you were born again.
    wrong way round.

    Now, if you'll do the same where healing is concerned...
    But I had evidence of being born again, healing, especially for others, is very different.

    No weapon formed against me can prosper and every tongue that rises up against me... I condemn! (Isaiah 54:17)
    The losing side would disagree.

    Can't speak for others, but I do not accept the blubbering lies of the devil... Jesus has already taken strokes, and mental illness intended for me... upon Himself so I would not have to have them.
    I pray that God may keep it so. We shall see.

    He truly is a GOOD Lord and Savior Who was manifest to destroy the works of the devil (1 John 3:8)
    That is true, but nowhere does it say that disease is of the Devil.


    It's too bad that some just accept the going to Heaven part believing that that's all God has done for them...
    But I don't accept that going to Heaven is all that God has done for me and for others. Yet nevertheless some whom I pray for are unhealed in spite of that. You have just had an easy time of it. Maybe God doesn't trust you?

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    Default Re: Hey Evangelical/Pentacostal/Charismatic types...

    Sickness is definitely from satan either directly or indirectly.

    Luke 13:16 (NASB)
    16 "And this woman, a daughter of Abraham as she is, whom Satan has bound for eighteen long years, should she not have been released from this bond on the Sabbath day?"

    This sickness was the work of Satan, not the work of God. Jesus said it had bound her – not blessed her – for eighteen years. The teaching that says sickness is actually a blessing in disguise because the Lord is working His plan in our lives is not found in Scripture.

    As Acts 10:38 says, Jesus “went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil,” not “oppressed of God.”

    Jesus would have been fighting the Father the whole time He was on this earth if sickness came from Him. No, sickness is the foul off-spring of sin which is of the devil and it is the fruit of his life that brought corruptness to this world.

    God no more wants His beloved children sick then we as a parent would want our own children to be sick - in order to "teach them something".

    Even the thought of a parent "allowing" others to directly put a sickness on our children so that we can come after ward to show our goodness - is diabolical. We would throw those parent in jail if they did that to their children.

    And yet - we ascribe this very thing to our loving heavenly Father because of our church traditions and teachings and judging things by our own personal experience.

    Where do we get this sense of "morality" from? From God of course. Instinctively we know it is not right. The heart and mind of man is not designed by God to believe in a being that would act like that.

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    Default Re: Hey Evangelical/Pentacostal/Charismatic types...

    But God does not make any overall promises
    Thank you for that... this explains that you do not actually accept God's Word.

    You are what is called "an unbelieving believer" who believes in salvation but nothing else

    Well, I guess you believe in salvation, right?

    I mean, if God does not make any promises... on what basis do you believe you are even saved???

    I mean, HOW do you think you are saved if God does not make any promises?

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    Default Re: Hey Evangelical/Pentacostal/Charismatic types...

    But God does not make any overall promises (about healing)
    Quote Originally Posted by Rockrz View Post
    Thank you for that... this explains that you do not actually accept God's Word.

    I accept God's word. Where I have difficulty is with Rocky's word.

    You are what is called "an unbelieving believer" who believes in salvation but nothing else
    God is judge.

    Well, I guess you believe in salvation, right?

    I mean, if God does not make any promises... on what basis do you believe you are even saved???
    I said overall promises (about healing).

    I mean, HOW do you think you are saved if God does not make any promises?
    But not overall promises about healing. Wake up

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