Hi all and a warm welcome... may you all be blessed And at peace.
My new thread is aimed at genuine honest debate where anyone is free to voice there views and votes.
I am torn at the moment coz it seem my Good works are not enough to win over christians who are hell bent on saying you will go to hell..
Ultimately it is God who decides such acts and what ever wrong we do or have done,,, whether it be not doing right by God in any shape or form..
The biggest fault i see is in my self when i would often engage in armuent with out even considering the reason why people are having this argument..
I for one dont like to discuss salvation for to long or even not at all.. I simply say it for God de to decide,, he will know your heart better than to me..
So here we have it....
which is better to say to some one
1 you will go to hell when you stand in front of God and boast of Good works...
2 God likes boasting about his works
and maybe God likes some works that God would have done if he hadnt of asked you.
So you could stay God whilst stood in front of him... was you there when i fed 50 hungry people one day..?
And God was that me who did that work or was that You. ?
I agree with the point that you made about, its not our place to decide who is saved or not. I have found that when you quote directly from Jesus teachings, many will come and say you are a "works for salvationist" or you are accusing them in some way. when you look at matthew 25 the sheep and goats the ones who did Gods will in clothing, feeding, visiting ect the needy, the righteous dont say anything about what they have done, in fact they didnt even Know what Jesus meant when He said " for when i was hungry you fed me, when i was naked you clothed me..." thier response is " when Lord? when did we see you hungry and feed you? or naked and clothe you?" to which He responds ": whatever you did for the least of these, you did for me..."
The ones who end up in eternal punishment, they are those who are claiming good works, but thoer works werent to clothe and feed ect....He says " when i was Hungry, you didnt feed me, when i was naked you didnt clothe me.." and they again say " when did we not do those things for you?" which He explains " whatever you did not do for the least, you did not do for me"
So very evidently thier " good works" did not include brotherly Love in action and truth. thier good works were rpohesying in His name, driving out demons, like the pharisees they may have given to the treasury out of thier abundance, but the poor and needy meant nothing to them. isaiah 58 shows Gods desire from us. the righteous in Jesus words there are acting in Love toward the forgotten and overlooked of society, and the wicked are not acting in Love toward them.
when we say Love, it isnt whatever we think love means, but what God has taught Love is. Salvation is decided by the only one who is able to make that decision, the one who suffered on our behalf and calls us into the fold of those who Hear and follow His word, His gospel teaches us things like this
Luke 14:12-14 "
Then said he also to him that bade him, When thou makest a dinner or a supper, call not thy friends, nor thy brethren, neither thy kinsmen, nor thy rich neighbours; lest they also bid thee again, and a recompence be made thee. 13But when thou makest a feast, call the poor, the maimed, the lame, the blind: 14And thou shalt be blessed; for they cannot recompense thee: for thou shalt be recompensed at the resurrection of the just."
He teaches this spirit continuosly. because its What He did for us. we were blind, poor, maimed, lame and couldnt pay Him back for what He did. i find that this teaching is also reflected in the invitation to His wedding banquet, he invites us who cant recompense and pay Him back for His charity toward us. so His command to do these things, is based on what He did for us, who have no way to repay His goodness. Instead He teaches us to go be that way to the ones who really need Loves fruit, giving to the poor, visiting the Lonely and forgotten ect. its not about earning anything, but about honoring the will and testament of the One who died for us and made the way Home.
many things He teaches are avoided these days, and shouldnt be, but rather embraced. The whole principle of the gospel is like that teaching forgive the undeserving, help the ones who are broken from Lifes hardships, turn the other cheek, bless the ones who curse you.....ect. there is a spirit in the gospels knowledge, it is the truth of brotherly Love and is by nature sacrificial<< thats our goal to be like Jesus was and taught us to be. not arguing over who can lose or gain salvation, Hell come with that judgement at the apponted time, we need just appreciate and learn and follow, God has the rest worked out
