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Thread: The body of Moses

  1. #21
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    Default Re: The body of Moses

    Quote Originally Posted by John146 View Post
    Maybe because Moses will be brought back to life as one of the two witnesses along with Elijah during the Tribulation. Elijah is yet to die but was caught up.
    The other witness is Enoch not Moses. Enoch never died either.

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    Default Re: The body of Moses

    Quote Originally Posted by Meggido View Post
    The other witness is Enoch not Moses. Enoch never died either.
    Enoch is a picture of the raptured saints who will never face death. The righteousness of God was witnessed through the law(Moses) and the prophets(Elijah).

    Romans 3:21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
    followjesus likes this.

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    Default Re: The body of Moses

    Quote Originally Posted by Grace777x70 View Post
    I believe the devil wanted the body of Moses so that they could make a shrine out of it. Imagine the people that would go to his grave site because of the law of Moses. The devil uses the law of Moses to condemn people and to try to live by the law of Moses instead of the life of Christ in us.

    He would use the body of Moses to perpetuate living from works-righteousness which nullifies the grace of God in Christ from operating in our lives like it was meant to do.

    Thank God Michael stopped it.
    if Satan uses the laws of Moses for people to obey then why do Satanic churches believe in doctrine that Satan freed them from those laws?

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    Default Re: The body of Moses

    Quote Originally Posted by jaybird88 View Post
    if Satan uses the laws of Moses for people to obey then why do Satanic churches believe in doctrine that Satan freed them from those laws?
    Interesting, which Satanic church believes this?

    left hand path or right hand path?

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    Default Re: The body of Moses

    Moses represents the Law.

    Moses hit the rock twice, and was prohibited from entering the Promised Land.
    The Law hit Jesus twice. It first of all found him guilty of blasphemy, and had him put to death, and then persecuted the Church, the Body Of Christ, and refused to believe the message. For the second transgression, not the first, the Legalists (Jews + levites) were not allowed to enter the Church, the promised land.

    I guess the dispute is over the role of the Law after its 'death'.
    Last edited by J7; 5 Days Ago at 06:09 PM.

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    Default Re: The body of Moses

    Quote Originally Posted by Meggido View Post
    Interesting, which Satanic church believes this?

    left hand path or right hand path?
    i learned of it when reading about the hellfire club in england. do what thou wilt was one of their primary philosophies which to them means law liberation. Aleister Crowley wrote books on it.
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    Default Re: The body of Moses

    Or put another way.

    The Law can be used illicitly, to great detriment, or correctly, in which case it is of great benefit.
    1 Timothy 1:8
    But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully;

    Satan and the Angel disputing over the dead body of Moses, (albeit Moses died in perfect health), is akin to the Church and the Jews disputing over the Law. One agency want to use it correctly, whilst the other agency wants to use for nefarious purposes.

    Does that make sense?

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    Default Re: The body of Moses

    Quote Originally Posted by jaybird88 View Post
    i learned of it when reading about the hellfire club in england. do what thou wilt was one of their primary philosophies which to them means law liberation. Aleister Crowley wrote books on it.
    Ok Thank you. Aleister Crowley was not a Satanist. He was a left Hand path Black Magic Practitioner and although it sounds silly, there is a difference between that and a Satanist, just like there are differences in the modern day church.

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    Default Re: The body of Moses

    Quote Originally Posted by Meggido View Post
    Ok Thank you. Aleister Crowley was not a Satanist. He was a left Hand path Black Magic Practitioner and although it sounds silly, there is a difference between that and a Satanist, just like there are differences in the modern day church.
    technically maybe not but when you start referring to left Hand path, thelema philosophy etc, few know what your talking about. they are dark ways that lead you in the opposite direction of what Jesus taught.

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    Default Re: The body of Moses

    It could be like the golden calf after they came out of Israel,which Satan wants people to worship other things,idols,false gods,and people,other than God.

    Moses was a great leader,and with his death the Jews might of wanted to carry him in to Canaan,and make a shrine to him,to reverence him.

    2Ki 18:1 Now it came to pass in the third year of Hoshea son of Elah king of Israel, that Hezekiah the son of Ahaz king of Judah began to reign.
    2Ki 18:2 Twenty and five years old was he when he began to reign; and he reigned twenty and nine years in Jerusalem. His mother's name also was Abi, the daughter of Zachariah.
    2Ki 18:3 And he did that which was right in the sight of the LORD, according to all that David his father did.
    2Ki 18:4 He removed the high places, and brake the images, and cut down the groves, and brake in pieces the brasen serpent that Moses had made: for unto those days the children of Israel did burn incense to it: and he called it Nehushtan.

    The brasen serpent that Moses had made,the children of Israel did burn incense to it,but king Hezekiah brake it in pieces,and stopped the Jews from reverencing it.

    Mat 17:4 Then answered Peter, and said unto Jesus, Lord, it is good for us to be here: if thou wilt, let us make here three tabernacles; one for thee, and one for Moses, and one for Elias.

    Deu 34:5 So Moses the servant of the LORD died there in the land of Moab, according to the word of the LORD.
    Deu 34:6 And he buried him in a valley in the land of Moab, over against Bethpeor: but no man knoweth of his sepulchre unto this day.

    God buried Moses,and they did not know where He buried him,for He did not want them to know.

    Dan 10:21 But I will shew thee that which is noted in the scripture of truth: and there is none that holdeth with me in these things, but Michael your prince.

    Dan 12:1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.

    Michael is the great prince that stands for the children of Israel,and God did not want the Jews to reverence Moses,which they even made reverence to the brasen serpent that he made,so God did not want them to know where Moses was buried.

    The devil must of wanted the body of Moses,so that the somehow the Jews would know of his burial,and would want to honor him in a worship type of way,making them not right with God,but Michael resisted the devil concerning the body of Moses.

    Unless Moses is to resurrect as one of the two witnesses sent to Israel to turn them to the truth in the future,and the devil wanted to hinder that,which the second might be Elijah,which both of them were seen with Jesus by the disciples.

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    Default Re: The body of Moses

    Quote Originally Posted by Grace777x70 View Post

    Where does it say that God killed Moses? It looks like that God knew that he would die because he wasn't going into the promised land because of his unbelief. I don't see where God killed him.

    Deuteronomy 34:5 (NASB)
    5 So Moses the servant of the LORD died there in the land of Moab, according to the word of the LORD.


    Moses struck the rock twice instead of speaking to it as God had commanded....the punishment was death and not allowed to enter the promise land Numbers 20
    Last edited by dcontroversal; 5 Days Ago at 03:53 AM.

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    Default Re: The body of Moses

    correction there,dcontroversal,God told Moses that since he did not sanctify his name at the waters of mispah,as you said smiting the rock instead of speaking to it that he would not enter into the promised land,if you look clearly at the bible there is no mention of God killing moses nor condemning moses to death in any way,you are just speaking your opinion in place of what the bible tells,be sure to "know" the difference between what is written and what you think,furthermore moses died/passed away he wasn't killed,that's the whole reason God buried him himself and why God allowed Moses to look upon his back parts,because Moses was near and dear to God's heart,remember it was Moses whom reflected God's knowledge back to him when the people made the golden calf and worshipped it,God wanted to kill them and told moses he would make of him a great nation instead moses told God not to for not only would the egyptians think it foolish God bringing the israelites out of Egypt then killing them,but also he would have brought them out of Egypt for nothing if he killed them as he wanted to,so God turned from his anger for Moses' sake,so to even think that God killed Moses after all that Moses did for God and the israelites is not only untrue it is ridiculous blasphemy,God loved and respected moses so much that he buried him when he died before joshuas very eyes giving up the ghost,as in, that he was ready to die after doing all he could for God and the israelites and knew that joshua was to be the next leader in time so he told joshua all that he was to do and when moses yielded up the ghost it isiswritten written that joshua had moses' hands upon him and was full of the spirit of wisdom because of this,also if God was so displeased with Moses to kill him then why is it written that Moses knew God face to face as in that when God spoke to moses it was between him and God,which if you know what honor is... that in my personal opinion was a tremendous honor not only to speak to God as directly as was possible,but to see God even if it was just from behind since no man can look upon God's face and live,as well as being buried by God,there again you spoke out of turn,God buried Moses not an angel according to the bible,which is why no one knows where his sepulchre is...and that to me was the last great thing God did to honor Moses,if you want proof of many of these truths,actually read Deuteronomy chapter 34 alongside the holy spirit and "learn" not speculate what is truthfully written of Moses,as to the answer of why Satan wanted Moses' body that is perhaps written in the bible but I dare not speak out of turn upon this for to do so without having searched out the answer with the holy spirit,as in not knowing what is truely written of this yet speaking would be blasphemy and I dare not do it,anything you say from the bible without learning what is true is blasphemy so I'll just leave it at that for now though I may have a hunch,but it is better to know the "TRUTH" and practice holding thy tongue than speaking so quickly on any subject from the bible without searching it out as best as you can alongside the holy spirit!

  13. #33
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    Default Re: The body of Moses

    Jesus Himself said: "No man hath ascended up to heaven,
    but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man"
    (John 3:13)

    Enoch Walked With God (Gen. 5:22)

    At the age of 65 Enoch had a son named Methuselah.
    "And Enoch walked with God after he begat Methuselah
    three hundred years, and he begat sons and daughters"
    .


    Hebrews 11:6 the apostle said, "But without faith it is impossible
    to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is,
    and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him."

    So He obeyed God, and followed Him in His paths by faith.
    Amos the prophet said: "Can two walk together, except they be agreed?"


    The scripture says that he "walked with God after he begat Methuselah
    three hundred years." So Enoch followed God's ways for three hundred years.
    Moses did not record that Enoch [is still] walking with God.

    "all the days of Enoch were three hundred sixty and five years" If Enoch did
    not die - if he were changed to immortality - and thus continued to walk with God,
    then his days would have been more than three hundred and sixty-five years.

    Enoch's Translation

    Moses wrote that "Enoch walked with God: and he was not; for God
    took him" (Gen. 5:24). Paul records the same event by saying that he
    "was not found, because God had translated him" (Heb. 11:5).

    That Enoch was not found because God took him, or "translated" him.
    The Bible does not say that Enoch went to heaven when he was translated.
    Instead it says he was not found. Certainly Enoch was "translated,"

    The original Greek word for "translate" is metatithemi.
    According to Arndt-Gingrich's Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament,
    1969 edition, the primary meaning is to "convey to another place ... transfer"


    Jacob died his body was "carried over"

    This same Greek word is rendered "carried over" in Acts 7:16.
    Here we read that after Jacob died his body was "carried over"
    - transported, translated - to Sychem where he was buried!

    Jacob was transported or translated to the place of burial!
    That is why Moses said that God took Enoch. God removed - translated
    - him so that he was not found. God took Enoch and buried him!

    In Deuteronomy 34:6 we read also how God took Moses from the people
    after which he died and was buried by God. "But no man knoweth his
    sepulchre unto this day." God removed Moses - God translated him - and
    he was not found either!

    He was taken away and was not found. All his days were three hundred
    and sixty-five! That's as long as Enoch lived.

    Colossians 1:13: the Father "hath delivered us from the power of darkness,
    and hath [translated us] into the kingdom of his dear Son." Here the Bible
    says that Christians are already translated - but Christians still die!


    Enoch is included by Paul (in Hebrews 11) among the fathers who obtained
    a good report through faith; but"these all, having obtained a good report
    through faith, received not the promise" (Heb. 11:39). What promise?

    The "hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie,
    promised before the world began" (Titus 1:2).

    Enoch and all the worthies of old will receive the promise of eternal life
    at the return of Christ, the same time Christians obtain it (Heb. 11:40)
    "These all died in faith, not having received the promises."


    Paul tells us: Abel, Enoch, Noah, and the patriarchs and their wives. Heb 11:1-12
    lists those who had faith and Enoch is included among them. Then in verse 13 Paul
    proved that they had not inherited the promises by saying:

    "These all [including Enoch] died in faith." But what about Paul's saying
    that Enoch "should not see death"?

    There is more than one death mentioned in the Bible.
    There is a first death, and there is a second death (Rev. 20:6).

    The first death is appointed unto men (Heb. 9:27). That death cannot
    be humanly evaded. It is inevitable, and that death Enoch died.

    But Paul was not writing about that death. The phrase "should not see"
    is in the conditional tense of the verb, having reference to a future event.

    It is not in the past tense, that he "did not see" death - but that he
    "should not see death." So this death that Enoch escaped by being
    translated is one that he can escape in the future on certain conditions!

    In John 8:51 Jesus said, "Verily, verily, I say unto you, If a man keep my
    saying, he shall never see death" - shall never see - that is, suffer - the
    second death! And again in John 11:26, "Whosoever liveth and believeth
    in me shall never die" - or "shall not die forever."

    The death which Enoch should escape must be the second death which
    will never touch those who are in the first resurrection (Rev. 20:6).

    And Enoch will be in the first resurrection because he met the conditions!
    The second death shall never touch Enoch,because of his faith and obedience.

    Enoch had faith. He believed God and walked with God, obeying Him.
    Jesus did not speak of Himself, but spoke what the Father commanded Him.

    God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony,
    that he pleased God."


    Then Enoch, the same as Christians, was delivered from the power of sin and darkness
    in which he had beenliving for sixty-five years. He was removed (translated)from the
    ways of the world and lived three hundred years according to God's ways so that he
    might inherit eternal life at Christ's return, and should not suffer the second death.


    By faith Enoch was separated - removed or translated- from the world, the same as
    Christians who are not to be a part of the world, although living in the world.

    Not only was Enoch figuratively taken from the society of his day,
    but he was also literally removed -translated - so that he was not found.
    God took him physically away from the people, just as He later took Moses.
    And God buried each so well that neither has ever been found since!

    A Premature Death

    We read that "all the days of Enoch
    were three hundred sixty and five years" (Gen. 5:23).

    Now look at the entire fifth chapter of Genesis. The shortest lifespan described, aside
    from Enoch's, is the seven hundredand seventy-seven years lifetime of Lamech.

    The longest is Methuselah's nine hundred and sixty-nine. But
    Enoch lived only three hundred and sixty-five. Why?

    Clearly Enoch died a premature death! He did not complete his normal
    life cycle. He was cut off, as it were, inthe midst of his days.
    But what happened? Does the Bible give us any clue?


    Why Lamech's Boast?


    Lamech, a descendant of Cain (not the same person listed in the genealogy
    of Genesis 5), boasted to his two wives: "I have slain a man to my wounding,
    and a young man to my hurt. If Cain be avenged sevenfold, truly Lamech
    seventy and sevenfold" (Gen. 4:23-24).

    The "man"was Cain. Hence Lamech's reference to the fact that God
    would take vengeance on anyone who dared to murder Cain.


    But who was the "young man"? Enoch at age three hundred and sixty-five
    would certainly be considered a young man by his generation.

    Enoch walked with God. Furthermore, he prophesied of the coming of Christ
    to execute judgment and to convict the ungodly (Jude 14-15). He was in effect
    a "preacher of righteousness" (compare II Peter 2:5).

    But God's message has never been popular. As a servant of God, Enoch
    undoubtedly convicted and enraged many by his message. His life was in
    danger. Finally that ungodly generation tolerated Enoch's preaching no longer.

    By comparing Lamech's saying with the age of Enoch at his death,
    we may deduce from Scripture that Lamech (by himself or with a mob)
    stilled Enoch's voice by murder. Don't think this strange or unusual.

    Hebrew tradition reveals that Noah, the great grandson of Enoch,
    had to flee for his life in order to carry out the Work of God.
    (Josephus, Antiquities of the Jews, book I, chapter 3, section 1, ).


    "But Noah was very uneasy at what they [the pre Flood world] did;
    and being displeased at their conduct, persuaded [urged] them to change
    their dispositions and their acts for the better: but seeing they did not yield
    to him, but were slaves to their wicked pleasures, he was afraid they would
    kill him, together with his wife and children, and those they hadmarried;
    so he departed out of the land"


    God allowed Enoch to be martyred. But He would not permit his body to be
    desecrated or publicly displayed. God physically removed his body, very
    likely in the sight of his murderers - before they could defile it. Otherwise
    how would anyone have known that God had taken him?

    The physical translation or carrying away of Enoch was also a sign from God
    that his faith had been accepted -God often gives signs (Isaiah 38:7).

    The question may arise, why did God allow His righteous servant Enoch to die?
    The Bible contains - if you a chronicle or obituary of the death of the prophets
    and apostles of God throughout history.Many of the greatest men of the Bible
    were martyred.God is concerned with one's physical welfare. But He is more
    concerned with one's spiritual state and one's eternal life.



    Like every true saint, Enoch is awaiting the hope of the resurrection
    and the return of Jesus Christ, the Messiah (Jude 14, 15).

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    Default Re: The body of Moses

    Heaven Defined

    “Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them” (Gen. 2:1).
    This word heavens refers to two different heavens.

    The first heaven consists of the Earth’s atmosphere. The second heaven is
    the vast reaches of space beyond the atmosphere.

    There is also a third heaven: the home of God. The Apostle Paul saw this “third heaven,”
    where God’s throne is, in a vision (ii Cor. 12:1-2). This vision was so intensely realistic
    that Paul was unable to tell if he was physically there, or if he was seeing it in his mind.

    In Hebrews 4:14, the phrase “into the heavens,” should be translated “through the heavens.”
    We see that Jesus Christ passed through the first two heavens—Earth’s atmosphere and outer space
    —as He ascended to the third heaven.

    John 3:13 reveals that no man has ascended to heaven except for Jesus Christ.

    Certainly many have ascended to the first and second heavens by aircraft, spacecraft
    and other means, so this verse can only refer to the third heaven,
    where the Almighty God resides.

    Some have said that Elijah ascended to heaven, which he did—but not to the third
    heaven. He was taken by chariots of fire up into the first heaven (ii Kings 2:11).
    The Hebrew word used for heaven here is the same as in Genesis 2:1.

    Elijah did not die during this experience. In fact, Elijah wrote a letter to King Jehoram
    years after this event (ii Chron. 21:12). Elijah had been miraculously transported to
    another location on Earth.

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    Default Re: The body of Moses

    Quote Originally Posted by jaybird88 View Post
    technically maybe not but when you start referring to left Hand path, thelema philosophy etc, few know what your talking about. they are dark ways that lead you in the opposite direction of what Jesus taught.
    Agreed. I do not follow these ways, but have learned a lot about these ways and the different powers of darkness, through different events in my life. I never followed or practiced these ways, but I was exposed to the many different ways when I was not walking with the Lord. We also have a fellow minister, we work with, who lived in the occult for years before coming to Jesus.

    One of my former Pastors invited some deliverance minister to teach about deliverance ministry one night. The guy was a complete fraud and was saying stuff that was not only ignorant of his supposed calling to deliverance, but outright wrong period.

    He said he was attacked by a Wicca witch that was a devil worshiper. Wicca are pagan and paganism does not worship Satan, they worship the goddess and her god, Wicca generally stay right hand path, very few will use sex magic and conjuring magic, which belongs to those following left path ways. Red and Black witches are not Wicca, they are left hand path adherents and most of these due practice Satanism or true Devil worship.

    I called him out on it immediately because he was asking our church to pay him a $500 speaking fee. The clown had no clue about left hand path or right hand path or the difference in true devil worship, which is not Satanism either, and pagan Wicca.

    Now to be clear, all of it from the devil we know this as sons and daughters of God. You will never, ever convince a Wicca witch or warlock they are worshiping the devil or Satan. They worship the a false deity known as the goddess. They will laugh at you and their familiar spirits will cause you to doubt yourself and your beliefs. This is why those in the occult view Christians ignorant, stupid, a joke and are not worried about them.

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    Default Re: The body of Moses

    Quote Originally Posted by J7 View Post
    Moses represents the Law.

    Moses hit the rock twice, and was prohibited from entering the Promised Land.
    The Law hit Jesus twice. It first of all found him guilty of blasphemy, and had him put to death, and then persecuted the Church, the Body Of Christ, and refused to believe the message. For the second transgression, not the first, the Legalists (Jews + levites) were not allowed to enter the Church, the promised land.

    I guess the dispute is over the role of the Law after its 'death'.

    In that parable the law typified by Moses was to strike Christ “once” as outlined in Isaiah 53 and out of that Rock, Christ came rivers of living water, the gospel of out salvation.

    The law cannot strike twice as if Christ needed to be crucified over and over exposing Him to public shame as if one work could no do what he hoped by faith would. That would put Christ in double jeopardy.

    It was because Christ is typified as being stricken twice .It showed that Moses was not walking by faith the unseen eternal not mixing faith in what he did hear or see.

    Num 20:12 And the LORD spake unto Moses and Aaron, Because ye believed me not, to sanctify me in the eyes of the children of Israel, therefore ye shall not bring this congregation into the land which I have given them.

    The law of God as the word of God will serve it good intended purpose until the last day when we receive our new bodies. That law will then have served it purpose of leading people to Christ as we are informed until then not one jot or tittle will be removed

    Mat 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
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    Default Re: The body of Moses

    I reread the accounts Garee.

    First time around at Horeb, where the Law was given, Moses struck the rock once. Exodus 17:6. The waters then flowed.

    The second time around is in Kadesh in the wilderness of Zin. Numbers 20:

    Kadesh is in Judea, it is also called En-mishpat, which means "spring of judgment".

    So the second time, God tells Moses to talk to the Rock. Moses lacks faith and whacks it, expecting the same result as before. Nothing happens. Then instead of thinking he'd better talk to it as God has commanded, Moses whacks it again!

    Moses. The great man of Faith, lacked Faith.

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    Default Re: The body of Moses

    Quote Originally Posted by J7 View Post
    I reread the accounts Garee.

    First time around at Horeb, where the Law was given, Moses struck the rock once. Exodus 17:6. The waters then flowed.

    The second time around is in Kadesh in the wilderness of Zin. Numbers 20:

    Kadesh is also called En-mishpat, in Judea, which means "spring of judgment".

    So the second time, God tells Moses to talk to the Rock. Moses lacks faith and whacks it, expecting the same result as before. Nothing happens. Then instead of thinking he'd better talk to it as God has commanded, Moses whacks it again!

    Moses. The great man of Faith, lacked Faith.
    Moses was known for meekness not faith.

  19. #39


    J7
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    Default Re: The body of Moses

    Quote Originally Posted by Meggido View Post
    Moses was known for meekness not faith.
    Moses was 'faithful in all his house'. He is also mentioned in Hebrews 11 as a great man of Faith.

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    Default Re: The body of Moses

    Quote Originally Posted by J7 View Post
    Moses was 'faithful in all his house'. He is also mentioned in Hebrews 11 as a great man of Faith.
    Yes I know those things, but Moses is really know for his meekness. It is what comes to most people mind first, faith, not so much

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