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Thread: Thought this might be interesting to discuss.

  1. #41
    Senior Member followjesus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Thought this might be interesting to discuss.

    Quote Originally Posted by SovereignGrace View Post
    To put it simply and succinctly...

    There's God the Father...
    There's God the Son...
    There's God the holy Spirit...

    In Revelation 5, we see the Father setting upon His throne with a book in His right hand. We see Jesus, the Lamb that had been slain, taking that book out of the Father's hand.

    This shows me they are not the same person. There are 3 in the Godhead, and I am sure you agree.

    But that's as simple as I can make it.

    yep, i do agree the only difference is the wording we are using ( which causes alot of conflict here)
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  2. #42
    Senior Member SovereignGrace's Avatar
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    Default Re: Thought this might be interesting to discuss.

    Quote Originally Posted by followjesus View Post
    yep, i do agree the only difference is the wording we are using ( which causes alot of conflict here)
    What in my wording do you disagree with?
    I have given God countless reasons not to love me. None of them has been strong enough to change Him.
    Paul Washer

    Instead of telling them God has a wonderful plan for their life - tell them who God is.
    Paul Washer

    God saved you for Himself; God saved you by Himself; God saved you from Himself
    .
    Paul Washer

  3. #43
    Senior Member dcontroversal's Avatar
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    Default Re: Thought this might be interesting to discuss.

    The word states that he did not receive the Spirit by measure as we have.......
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    Senior Member sevenseas's Avatar
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    Default Re: Thought this might be interesting to discuss.

    Jesus said 'I and the Father are one.' John 10:30
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  5. #45
    Senior Member SovereignGrace's Avatar
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    Default Re: Thought this might be interesting to discuss.

    Quote Originally Posted by sevenseas View Post
    Jesus said 'I and the Father are one.' John 10:30
    Yes. However, we hear His voice from heaven after Jesus was baptized.
    I have given God countless reasons not to love me. None of them has been strong enough to change Him.
    Paul Washer

    Instead of telling them God has a wonderful plan for their life - tell them who God is.
    Paul Washer

    God saved you for Himself; God saved you by Himself; God saved you from Himself
    .
    Paul Washer

  6. #46
    Senior Member notuptome's Avatar
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    Default Re: Thought this might be interesting to discuss.

    Hebrews 1:1 ¶ God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
    2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
    3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;
    4 ¶ Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.
    5 For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?
    6 And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.
    7 And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire.
    8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.
    9 Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.
    10 And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands:
    11 They shall perish; but thou remainest; and they all shall wax old as doth a garment;
    12 And as a vesture shalt thou fold them up, and they shall be changed: but thou art the same, and thy years shall not fail.
    13 But to which of the angels said he at any time, Sit on my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool?
    14 Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation?

    Php 2:6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:

    Jesus laid aside His glory in heaven to become like His creation that He came to redeem. Jesus never laid aside His divinity. God occupies all of eternity all the time.

    For the cause of Christ
    Roger
    The bible is a mirror not a magnifying glass
    use it to examine yourself not others.

  7. #47
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    Default Re: Thought this might be interesting to discuss.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dino246 View Post
    These are important verses to the discussion. However, all three are in the realm of authority (delegated sovereignty) rather than power (strength, might, or ability). I would suggest that these don't take away from the view that Jesus did nothing by His own power, but rather by that of the Holy Spirit.

    There is no record of Jesus doing any miracles before the Holy Spirit came upon Him. While I don't have all the verses handy to back it up, I believe that part of the "emptying" (Philippians 2:7) involved voluntary suspension of powers partly to accomplish His purpose and partly to model reliance on the Spirit for us.

    Dino,
    You hit this one squarely on the head.

    This going to cause brains to explode around here, especially to those who do not view the ministry of the Holy Spirit is needed for today, or even that there is a baptism of the Holy Spirit or his gifts are valid. This will also make certain WOF people and Pentecostals that do not believe God tests people through trials on edge.

    NO miracle took place unto Jesus , himself , was baptized into the Holy Spirit and then validated for ministry through trials.

    We see this in Luke 3 and Luke 4, make note of the bold and underlined verses

    Luke 3.21-22-

    21 Now when all the people were baptized, Jesus was also baptized, and while He was praying, heaven was opened, 22 and the Holy Spirit descended upon Him in bodily form like a dove, and a voice came out of heaven, “You are My beloved Son, in You I am well-pleased.”

    Now lets look at something I think many miss in Luke 4 that proves no miracle took place until he was baptized in the Holy Spirit and then validated for ministry through 40 days of testing and trialing in the wilderness

    Luke 4.1-
    4 Jesus, full of the Holy Spirit, returned from the Jordan and was led around by the Spirit in the wilderness

    I am not going to post all verses, but I would urge folks to read Vs 2-13


    Now watch something closely in Luke 4.14

    14 And Jesus returned to Galilee in the power of the Spirit, and news about Him spread through all the surrounding district.

    Jesus was baptized in water, came out of the water and the Holy Spirit descended UPON him as a Dove, He entered into the wilderness FULL of the Spirit and he exited the wilderness in the POWER of the Spirit.



    No lets continue on with Luke 4.15-19

    15 And He began teaching in their synagogues and was praised by all.

    16 And He came to Nazareth, where He had been brought up; and as was His custom, He entered the synagogue on the Sabbath, and stood up to read. 17 And the book of the prophet Isaiah was handed to Him. And He opened the book and found the place where it was written,
    18 “The Spirit of the Lord is upon Me,
    Because He anointed Me to preach the gospel to the poor.
    He has sent Me to proclaim release to the captives,
    And recovery of sight to the blind,
    To set free those who are oppressed,
    19 To proclaim the favorable year of the Lord.”
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  8. #48
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    Default Re: Thought this might be interesting to discuss.

    Quote Originally Posted by pottersclay View Post
    Yes they are one no doubt. Is it possible the gospels are showing how they work independently?
    So are you really interested in how Jesus did things or was this just a sneaky way to try to promote oneness teaching?

  9. #49
    Senior Member Sac49's Avatar
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    Default Re: Thought this might be interesting to discuss.

    Quote Originally Posted by pottersclay View Post
    Was Jesus gifted by the holy spirit or were these powers of his own?

    Are the fruit and gifts of the holy spirit his or are they from Jesus?

    We know that Jesus was a gift from God.
    This is an interesting subject and question. This would be how i understand it according to Gods Word.

    Jesus is both fully God and fully man. While He was here on earth he "set aside" some part of His divine escence according to Phillipians 2:6-11. And we read in Acts 10:38 that God filled Jesus with the Holy Spirit and power. By the power of the Holy Spirit Jesus was able to cast out demons because only spirit can cast out spirit. But there are also times where by His own power He performs miracles. For example the calming of the storm where very nature obeys His command.

    There were times Jesus used His own power and times where the Holy Spirit worked thru Him.
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  10. #50
    Senior Member sevenseas's Avatar
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    Default Re: Thought this might be interesting to discuss.

    Quote Originally Posted by SovereignGrace View Post
    Yes. However, we hear His voice from heaven after Jesus was baptized.

    oh good grief

    and a bird just flew over my house

    whaaaaaaaaaaaa?

  11. #51
    Senior Member pottersclay's Avatar
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    Default Re: Thought this might be interesting to discuss.

    Quote Originally Posted by Meggido View Post
    So are you really interested in how Jesus did things or was this just a sneaky way to try to promote oneness teaching?
    The gospels fascinate me. Many here teach of Paul's writings which is absolutely fine. I believe there are a lot of hidden truth still yet to be found in the gospels.
    We think we know the story, we think we understand but as some of these post revealed there is still much to glean.
    followjesus and Meggido like this.

  12. #52
    Senior Member followjesus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Thought this might be interesting to discuss.

    Quote Originally Posted by pottersclay View Post
    The gospels fascinate me. Many here teach of Paul's writings which is absolutely fine. I believe there are a lot of hidden truth still yet to be found in the gospels.
    We think we know the story, we think we understand but as some of these post revealed there is still much to glean.
    so true pc, and that truth gives deeper understanding of Paul's writings because Paul's wisdom is founded upon the gospel. Pauls letters never cross a single principle from the lord, they are furthering our insight into the gospel. When we build a house, we have to build from the foundation upward, if we make a house, and then try to put a foundation under it, it doesn't work and the house is unstable. Or if we build a house on a foundation and then begin jack hammering chunks of the foundation away, it still makes an unstable house.

  13. #53
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    Default Re: Thought this might be interesting to discuss.

    Quote Originally Posted by pottersclay View Post
    Yes they are one no doubt. Is it possible the gospels are showing how they work independently?
    I don't believe so.. Jesus made it clear He only said what the LORD gave him to say..
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  14. #54
    Senior Member pottersclay's Avatar
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    Default Re: Thought this might be interesting to discuss.

    Quote Originally Posted by Adstar View Post
    I don't believe so.. Jesus made it clear He only said what the LORD gave him to say..
    Wouldn't you consider this a example of relationship?

  15. #55
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    Default Re: Thought this might be interesting to discuss.

    Quote Originally Posted by pottersclay View Post
    Wouldn't you consider this a example of relationship?
    Consider the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit as being relatives? No.. That would make Christianity polytheism to my thinking.. If God is One then The Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit must be One as declared in scripture in a number of different ways..

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