WHY DO HEBREW ROOTS/MESSIANIC JEWS CALL JESUS THE LIVING TORAH?

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Feb 1, 2014
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#1
This has to be one of my biggest pet peeves..why do Hebrew Roots/Messianic Jews call Jesus the "Living Torah"?

I guess it's because they are trying to claim that he was an animated Torah or something. Torah didn't exist before God. Jesus is God. Therefore, calling him the Living Torah is illogical.

When John referred to Jesus as being the Word, it was either related to one of these concepts or both of them:

1. Greeks had the concept of the Logos, which spoke of the divine force that ordered the universe. This force was viewed
as inanimate, and not a person. John was making it clear that Jesus was creator, and that He ordered the universe and
became flesh. He not only ordered it, he created it.

2. Jews had a concept of the Memra which spoke creation into existence.

But, claiming that Jesus is the Living Torah makes no sense whatsoever. I think it's some truism that's been accepted by Hebrew Roots/Messianic Jews and they are just going around repeating it like parrots.
 

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puppy

Guest
#3
I was not aware that Hebrew Roots and the Messianic Jews call Jesus the "Living Torah". I did some study on it and am trying to make sense of something that maybe I never will. In Christianity we refer to the Word as God made flesh who is Jesus but it encompasses more than the Torah. It includes the whole of scripture which is all equally important.
 

Desertsrose

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2016
2,824
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#4
This has to be one of my biggest pet peeves..why do Hebrew Roots/Messianic Jews call Jesus the "Living Torah"?

I guess it's because they are trying to claim that he was an animated Torah or something. Torah didn't exist before God. Jesus is God. Therefore, calling him the Living Torah is illogical.

When John referred to Jesus as being the Word, it was either related to one of these concepts or both of them:

1. Greeks had the concept of the Logos, which spoke of the divine force that ordered the universe. This force was viewed
as inanimate, and not a person. John was making it clear that Jesus was creator, and that He ordered the universe and
became flesh. He not only ordered it, he created it.

2. Jews had a concept of the Memra which spoke creation into existence.

But, claiming that Jesus is the Living Torah makes no sense whatsoever. I think it's some truism that's been accepted by Hebrew Roots/Messianic Jews and they are just going around repeating it like parrots.

Hi Sparksman,

I'm not saying you do, but I think sometimes we allow things to bother us when it's not a big deal.

When I read just now that Messianic Jews say Jesus is the living torah, it doesn't bother me at all.

He was the only human being that fully fulfilled the torah and walked it out in righteousness on this earth. Why would that bother you? Do they mean something by it that I'm not understanding?
 

JGIG

Senior Member
Aug 2, 2013
2,295
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#5
I was not aware that Hebrew Roots and the Messianic Jews call Jesus the "Living Torah". I did some study on it and am trying to make sense of something that maybe I never will. In Christianity we refer to the Word as God made flesh who is Jesus but it encompasses more than the Torah. It includes the whole of scripture which is all equally important.
Hebrew Roots does indeed teach that Yeshua is the 'Living Torah'. By doing so they reduce Christ to a written code and elevate Torah to God-hood.

Christ is the full embodiment of the Godhead (Col. 2:9).

Christ is the Living God, not the living Torah.

-JGIG
 

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
Nov 24, 2013
10,665
1,829
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#6
I just assumed that it means the Living Word, as the Torah would be the written. It's Hebrew thinking not Greek.
 
Dec 3, 2016
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#7
This has to be one of my biggest pet peeves..why do Hebrew Roots/Messianic Jews call Jesus the "Living Torah"?
Because Jesus is the living Word...

You know, I called the pet store and they say they don't have any pet "peeves".

Where did you get yours???
 

JGIG

Senior Member
Aug 2, 2013
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#8
I just assumed that it means the Living Word, as the Torah would be the written. It's Hebrew thinking not Greek.
Because Jesus is the living Word...
The concept of Christ as the Logos of God is Greek thinking - and that is by design.


Hebrew thinking is more concrete - Law makes sense.

Greek thinking is more conceptual/abstract - Grace makes sense.



We need to be very careful to keep Christ in His proper place of God-hood and not to elevate the Scriptures (which are a partial revelation of God, while Christ is the fullness of God) to an inappropriate place. So many have come to worship the written Words of God (partial expression) instead of the Living Word of God (full expression).

-JGIG
 

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
Nov 24, 2013
10,665
1,829
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#9
Hmmmm....

Then why did Jesus say His Word is Spirit and life?

Not trying to argue, but questions just seem to rise up in my head.

Hebrew is concrete? What does this mean?
 
Dec 3, 2016
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#10
We need to be very careful to keep Christ in His proper place of God-hood and not to elevate the Scriptures (which are a partial revelation of God, while Christ is the fullness of God) to an inappropriate place. So many have come to worship the written Words of God (partial expression) instead of the Living Word of God (full expression).
And this is the foundation satan lays in order to introduce extra biblical teaching that comes from satan and not God.

But don't worry... satan will mix in a few scriptures, some good feelings, and happy people to make all look so right.

I'll look so good, you won't even know you are being deceived!
 

Desertsrose

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2016
2,824
207
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#11
Hebrew Roots does indeed teach that Yeshua is the 'Living Torah'. By doing so they reduce Christ to a written code and elevate Torah to God-hood.

Christ is the full embodiment of the Godhead (Col. 2:9).

Christ is the Living God, not the living Torah.

-JGIG
How would that be? Do you know that when they say that Jesus is the living Torah that they are taking away His deity? Have you heard them say this?

John 1 says .......


In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being. In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it.

And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we saw His glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth.

~Jesus is the word of God. It seems to me that the scriptures would agree that Jesus is the living Torah.

Not just words on paper, but the word is alive and living through the Spirit. When we read the word of God it comes alive to us if Jesus, the word is living within through the
Holy Spirit.

Jesus said is we love God with all of our being and love our neighbor as ourselves that it fulfills all of the law and all of the prophets. Again, I can see here where in Christ the living word, the living torah, if we love God and love others, we're obeying all of the law and we're obeying all of the prophets.

I just can't see the problem. What's wrong with it?
 

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
Nov 24, 2013
10,665
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#12
By the way, my husband and I attended a Messianic meeting one time. We walked out when they brought this large scroll out.

So I'm not disagreeing.

Desertrose

Its similar to Catholicism and statues.

We only worship Jesus. The living Word which is what Torah means.
 
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Grandpa

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2011
11,551
3,188
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#13
We need to be very careful to keep Christ in His proper place of God-hood and not to elevate the Scriptures (which are a partial revelation of God, while Christ is the fullness of God) to an inappropriate place. So many have come to worship the written Words of God (partial expression) instead of the Living Word of God (full expression).
And this is the foundation satan lays in order to introduce extra biblical teaching that comes from satan and not God.

But don't worry... satan will mix in a few scriptures, some good feelings, and happy people to make all look so right.

I'll look so good, you won't even know you are being deceived!
2 Corinthians 3:6 [FONT=&quot]Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.

[/FONT]
I wonder if you understand. I can't fathom why someone would take exception with JGIG's comment. And then to claim it is from satan is absurd.
 
Dec 3, 2016
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#14
I wonder if you understand. I can't fathom why someone would take exception with JGIG's comment. And then to claim it is from satan is absurd.
That's because you have not been spending time comparing popular teaching today against God's Word after noticing God's warnings in scripture concerning false teachers and false teaching in the end times...

Most of these popular teachers use what JGIG said to introduce false teaching, and in fact that's where JGIG got it from.

But, this is nothing like obamacare cause... if you like your false teacher, you can actually keep yo false teacher!
 

Grandpa

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2011
11,551
3,188
113
#15
That's because you have not been spending time comparing popular teaching today against God's Word after noticing God's warnings in scripture concerning false teachers and false teaching in the end times...

Most of these popular teachers use what JGIG said to introduce false teaching, and in fact that's where JGIG got it from.

But, this is nothing like obamacare cause... if you like your false teacher, you can actually keep yo false teacher!
Most false teachers I see try to minimize Christ and bring the focus back on their "understanding" of scripture.

Which usually leaves a lot to be desired.
 

JGIG

Senior Member
Aug 2, 2013
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#16
Hmmmm....

Then why did Jesus say His Word is Spirit and life?

Not trying to argue, but questions just seem to rise up in my head.

Hebrew is concrete? What does this mean?

Read through this search. Lots of articles on the issue of concrete thinking vs. conceptual thinking.

Hope that helps :).

-JGIG
 
Dec 3, 2016
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#17
What Giggly doesn't realize is that the written Word of God are things God Himself has said and had His servants write down.

So, to say the written Word of God is somehow less important that God... is to say what God says is not all that important.

That's what satan says!
 

JGIG

Senior Member
Aug 2, 2013
2,295
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#18
By the way, my husband and I attended a Messianic meeting one time. We walked out when they brought this large scroll out.

So I'm not disagreeing.

Desertrose

Its similar to Catholicism and statues.

We only worship Jesus. The living Word which is what Torah means.
The living Word is NOT what Torah means:


[FONT=&quot]H-8451
law, direction, instruction
[/FONT]


  1. instruction, direction (human or divine)
    1. body of prophetic teaching
    2. instruction in Messianic age
    3. body of priestly direction or instruction
    4. body of legal directives
  2. law
    1. law of the burnt offering
    2. of special law, codes of law
  3. custom, manner
  4. the Deuteronomic or Mosaic Law



Is that Who we see Christ portrayed as in the Scriptures? Or is He so much more than a written code?

-JGIG
 
Dec 3, 2016
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#19
is He so much more than a written code?
Yes He is... and most messianic believers in Jesus know that.

They just call things different titles that other folks do.

The only probably I've really seen is that some messianic believers who are Jewish speak as though maybe they are closer to God than others just because they are Jewish which is not true.
 

JGIG

Senior Member
Aug 2, 2013
2,295
167
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#20
What Giggly doesn't realize is that the written Word of God are things God Himself has said and had His servants write down.

So, to say the written Word of God is somehow less important that God... is to say what God says is not all that important.

That's what satan says!

39 You search the Scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life; and it is they that bear witness about me, 40 yet you refuse to come to me that you may have life. (from John 5)

Jesus' words seem like a good final say on the issue to me.

-JGIG