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Thread: the law of moses......and the Gospel of Gods Kingdom

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    Default Re: the law of moses......and the Gospel of Gods Kingdom

    Quote Originally Posted by Yahshua View Post
    Amen.

    1 John 4:2
    Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:


    Philippians 2:6-7
    Who, existing in the form of God, did not consider equality with God something to cling to, 7 but emptied Himself, taking the form of a servant, being made in human likeness.


    Hebrews 2:9-11
    9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels, now crowned with glory and honor because He suffered death, so that by the grace of God He might taste death for everyone.

    10 In bringing many sons to glory, it was fitting for God, for whom and through whom all things exist, to make the pioneer ["archegos"] of their salvation perfect through suffering.

    11 For both the One who sanctifies and those who are sanctified are of the same family. That is why Jesus is not ashamed to call them brothers



    747 arxēgós (from 746 /arxḗ, "the first" and 71 /ágō, "to lead") – properly, the first in a long procession; a file-leader who pioneers the way for many others to follow. 747 (arxēgós) does not strictly mean "author," but rather "a person who is originator or founder of a movement and continues as the leader – i.e. 'pioneer leader, founding leader'

    -----

    Christ came in the likeness of a man to show how man should walk in the Holy Spirit of God like Christ did in this same flesh from Adam. And so it's on us to "follow the leader", for we "can do all things through Christ who gives [us] the strength".

    amen great comment, if then a person looks at romans 5

    romans 5: 12-21 "Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned: 13(For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law. 14Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.
    15
    But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many. 16And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification. 17For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.



    18
    Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life. 19For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous. 20Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound: 21That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord."

    its a better understanding we see that aams transgression, lead mankind to sin resulting in death, sort of like imputed sin that man followed resulting in genesis 6, and that Christ is undong that through offering the gift of righteousness for us to follow leading to eternal Life. after conversing with many its seen as one act of sin condemned, one act of righteousness saved, yet those after adam though His act brought death, all followed sin with a few acceptions, now the opposite the righteousness Christ Lived and the new birth He offers, is what we follow in, leading to eternal Life and redemption.

    they followed adam to death, we follow Jesus to Life. God bless and thanks for the insight

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    Default Re: the law of moses......and the Gospel of Gods Kingdom

    Quote Originally Posted by JaumeJ View Post
    Anyone who has received the free gift of Salvation by the Blood of Jesus Christ will live in grace because of Christ's mercy. He will be obedient, even to the law according to the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

    He will know which laws are on the heart whenever justice, mercy and faith are applied.

    Any who beliee we do not obey the la according to Jesus Christ, has not yet come to the understanding of His Example. His Example is what we do our best to be like, though our perfection will not be until God finishes that work He began in us on the day we repented.....

    So if you believe someone is under the law because they believe the way it is interpreted by Jesus Christ is being adhered to, then you may have to read, pray and meditate much more.

    Mercy does not give licensce to sin, it does make us so that the guilt of our transgressions are not held against us.

    Praise Jesus Christ, our Salvation, amen
    I have some agreement with your comment, and also some disagreement

    the Law ? what Law are you referring to ? the Law of moses is contrary to the gospel cant keep both, speaking of the book of the Law, and theres no need to do so because it is fulfilled in Jesus Christ. The ten commandments ( the covenant Law) apply pre, during and post Jesus but they are Gods Law, the book of the mosaic Law is a witness against those who break them. Jesus however is contrary, being an advocate for those who have already broken Gods Law. its a vital understanding that the mosaic Laws arent for Christians, having died to that, and being made alive in the Law of the spirit of Life, which is the Gospel.

    Deuteronomy 31:26"Take this Book of the Law and place it beside the ark of the covenant of the Lord your God. There it will remain as a witness against thee"

    this is what God said after telling moses the people would break His law after moses died. it is a wtness against those who break the covenant law the ten commandments written and also spoken By God Himself. the mosaic Law is what is no more in power, its full of condemnation, no mercy, many ordinances fulfilled in Christ, sacrificial and preistly directives for the order of aaron. those things were contrary to us, and demanded death to sinners.

    colossians 2:12-15 "
    Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead. 13And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses; 14Blotting out the HANDWRITING OF ORDINANCES that was AGAINST US, which was CONTRARY TO US , and took it out of the way, NAILING IT TO HIS CROSS; 15And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it."

    and again

    romans 7:1-Know ye not, brethren, (for I speak to them that know the law,) how that the law hath dominion over a man as long as he liveth? 2For the woman which hath an husband is bound by the law to her husband so long as he liveth; but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of herhusband. 3So then if, while her husband liveth, she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress: but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law; so that she is no adulteress, though she be MARRIED TO ANOTHER man.
    4
    Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become DEAD TO THE LAW by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God. 5For WHEN WE WERE in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were BY THE LAW, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death. 6But now we are DELIVERED FROM THE LAW, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of SPIRIT, and not in the oldness of the LETTER."

    the flesh or "carnal commands" are found in the book of Moses. the spirit of Life is found in the word of Jesus Christ. moses had 4 books of hundreds of ordinances He wrote and finished and then placed beside the ark as a wotness against sinners. Jesus spoke the 4 gospels full of the Law of Gods Kingdom, the law of the spirit.

    there needs be made a distinction between the 2 because they are so contrary that one cant possibly follow both, and also has to be made a distinction between Gods Law the 10 commandments and the mosaic Law which is the witness against us. we simply believe in and follow the things Jesus taught, and are quickened and made new through them. "they are spirit and they are Life"
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    Default Re: the law of moses......and the Gospel of Gods Kingdom

    Quote Originally Posted by beta View Post
    Was not correcting you friend but the 'scoffers who persecute you....and me.
    Luke 6:22-23 "Blessed are ye, when men shall hate you, and when they shall separate you from their company, and shall reproach you, and cast out your name as evil, for the Son of man's sake.23Rejoice ye in that day, and leap for joy: for, behold, your reward is great in heaven: for in the like manner did their fathers unto the prophets."


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    Default Re: the law of moses......and the Gospel of Gods Kingdom

    The "law" to which I refer is the law as taught in the Gospel of Jesus Christ, by His Example also, and finally by His clarification.

    No one who is follwoing Jesus christ as the prime Example of behavior will ever say that grace and mercy equal prmission to be deliberately disobedient.

    If anyone believes once save always saved is to be interpreted as such, they are inviting imitators of Satan and not of Jesus Christ.

    We, having been changed and renewed by the Holy Spirit understand what Jesus is teaching, but without His light the veil is yet over the eys of many.

    As long as one has faith in Jesus christ, he has nothing to worry about, but those who go on witch hunts calling any who wish to be as obedient children of the Most High God as being under 5the law are not expressing any form of love for the bretheren, they are expressing judgment and condemnation which should not be.

    I would not, do not and will not condemn these people because Jesus does not, however He does warn any teaching against the least of these laws (understood by His clarification) will be least in the Kingdom. I believe I understand this, but those who put thmselves in the position of being leagal interpreters of the law as directly from Moses are actually the ones under the law for they do not understand what Jesus Christ has taught us and given us.

    God bless you always in Jesus christ......and, just in case you do not have it clear, I know I am not saved by anything other than the mercy afforded me and all who believe from God because of the Blood of His Lamb, our Savior, Jesus Christ, amen.
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    From the Mouth of our Lord, Jesus Christ, or do you call Him Yeshua?
    Mat 7:1 Judge not, that ye be not judged.


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    Default Re: the law of moses......and the Gospel of Gods Kingdom

    Quote Originally Posted by JaumeJ View Post
    The "law" to which I refer is the law as taught in the Gospel of Jesus Christ, by His Example also, and finally by His clarification.

    No one who is follwoing Jesus christ as the prime Example of behavior will ever say that grace and mercy equal prmission to be deliberately disobedient.

    If anyone believes once save always saved is to be interpreted as such, they are inviting imitators of Satan and not of Jesus Christ.

    We, having been changed and renewed by the Holy Spirit understand what Jesus is teaching, but without His light the veil is yet over the eys of many.

    As long as one has faith in Jesus christ, he has nothing to worry about, but those who go on witch hunts calling any who wish to be as obedient children of the Most High God as being under 5the law are not expressing any form of love for the bretheren, they are expressing judgment and condemnation which should not be.

    I would not, do not and will not condemn these people because Jesus does not, however He does warn any teaching against the least of these laws (understood by His clarification) will be least in the Kingdom. I believe I understand this, but those who put thmselves in the position of being leagal interpreters of the law as directly from Moses are actually the ones under the law for they do not understand what Jesus Christ has taught us and given us.

    God bless you always in Jesus christ......and, just in case you do not have it clear, I know I am not saved by anything other than the mercy afforded me and all who believe from God because of the Blood of His Lamb, our Savior, Jesus Christ, amen.
    agreed, God bless and Keep you !
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    Default Re: the law of moses......and the Gospel of Gods Kingdom

    Quote Originally Posted by Desertsrose View Post
    In Romans it says that all have sinned and fall short of God's glory. Jesus as a man falls into that category.

    There is none righteous, no not one. Apart from God, no one in and of themselves are righteous. Jesus born of human flesh would be sinful.
    This puts you outside the kingdom of God and into the kingdom of the cults. Jesus is the second person of the trinity--God incarnate (Jn 1:1-3, 14).

    See:


    Is it possible to be a Christian if you struggle to believe that Jesus was born a virgin?

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    Default Re: the law of moses......and the Gospel of Gods Kingdom

    Quote Originally Posted by followjesus View Post
    [Patterns]
    Prophecy is all about patterns.
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    Default Re: the law of moses......and the Gospel of Gods Kingdom

    Quote Originally Posted by followjesus View Post
    im in disagreement with c.s. lewis on some issues ...
    Like what? Do you like the lion in the Narnia movie?

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    Default Re: the law of moses......and the Gospel of Gods Kingdom

    Quote Originally Posted by Desertsrose View Post

    ...If Jesus is merely a human being He has a sin nature...
    Heb 4:15

    See:

    GodrulzRandomThoughts

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    Default Re: the law of moses......and the Gospel of Gods Kingdom

    Quote Originally Posted by serpentdove View Post

    This puts you outside the kingdom of God and into the kingdom of the cults. Jesus is the second person of the trinity--God incarnate (Jn 1:1-3, 14).

    See:


    Is it possible to be a Christian if you struggle to believe that Jesus was born a virgin?
    its not for you to judge someones inclusion in Gods Kingdom friend.

    speaking of those verses

    john 1:1 "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2The same was in the beginning with God"

    1 John 5:5-12 "Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the SON OF GOD? 6This is he that came by WATER AND BLOOD, even JESUS CHRIST; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the SPIRIT THAT BEARETH WITNESS, because the Spirit is truth.

    7For there are three that BEAR RECORD IN HEAVEN, the Father, the WORD, and the Holy Ghost: and these three ARE ONE ( John 1:1).

    8AND THERE ARE THREE THAT BEAR WITNESS IN THE EARTH , the SPIRIT, and the WATER, and the BLOOD: and these three agree IN ONE. (v6)
    9
    If we receive the witness of men, the WITNESS OF GOD is greater: for THIS IS THE WITNESS OF GOD which he hath testified OF HIS SON. 10He that believeth on the SON OF GOD hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not THE RECORD GOD GAVE OF HIS SON. (v7) 11And THIS IS THE RECORD, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is IN HIS SON. 12He that hath the SON hath life; and he that hath not the SON OF GOD hath not life."


    the word made flesh is that God sent His Son to save the World by becoming a man like us, and die for our sins. that word was always with God, as was His only Son. the word made flesh is the Son of God made flesh.

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    Default Re: the law of moses......and the Gospel of Gods Kingdom

    Quote Originally Posted by serpentdove View Post
    Like what? Do you like the lion in the Narnia movie?
    I have no clue what you are talking about whats the narnia movie? and whats that have to do with disagreeing with cs lewis and choosing Jesus Word instead?

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    Default Re: the law of moses......and the Gospel of Gods Kingdom

    Just a bit more of the pattern and understanding of atonement fulfilled in Jesus, and where the understanding comes in helpful

    leviticus 16:12-13 "And he shall take a censer full of burning coals of fire from off the altar before the LORD, and his hands full of sweet incense beaten small, and bring it within the vail: 13And he shall put the incense upon the fire before the LORD, that the cloud of the incense may cover the mercy seat that is upon the testimony, that he die not: "


    then when you see this , you can see how its a further picture of atonement and the true High Priest in Heaven

    revelation 8:3-5 "
    And another angel came and stood at the altar, having a GOLDEN CENSER; and there was given unto him much INCENSE that he should offer it with the prayers of all saints upon the GOLDEN ALTAR which was before the throne. 4And the SMOKE FROM THE INCENSE, which came with the prayers of the saints, ascended up before God out of the angel's hand. 5And the angel took THE CENSER, and filled it with FIRE OF THE ALTAR, and cast it into the earth: and there were voices, and thunderings, and lightnings, and an earthquake."



  13. #73
    sevenseas
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    Default Re: the law of moses......and the Gospel of Gods Kingdom

    Quote Originally Posted by beta View Post
    GOD's GRACE is buying us time to change....because punishment will come on those who do not ! All will eventually reap what they have sown. God is indeed just !

    people are condemned because they did not accept or do not accept Christ in their place as their propitiation for sin

    even Christians reap what they sow in this life which seems to be a principal many do not want to accept

    God's grace does not buy us time. this is a very bad understanding of what the grace of God is

    God's grace secured the righteousness of whosoever will ONE time. It is for all and does not change

    God is long suffering and patient and not willing that any should perish but the grace that is offered is the same as always has been

    The concept of sin is basically the rejection of God. Those who reject God's cure for sin, are without grace

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    Default Re: the law of moses......and the Gospel of Gods Kingdom

    Quote Originally Posted by sevenseas View Post
    people are condemned because they did not accept or do not accept Christ in their place as their propitiation for sin

    even Christians reap what they sow in this life which seems to be a principal many do not want to accept

    God's grace does not buy us time. this is a very bad understanding of what the grace of God is

    God's grace secured the righteousness of whosoever will ONE time. It is for all and does not change

    God is long suffering and patient and not willing that any should perish but the grace that is offered is the same as always has been

    The concept of sin is basically the rejection of God. Those who reject God's cure for sin, are without grace
    Seems we don't all have the same understanding of what 'grace' means. I see it as 'pardon from the death-sentence the OT was quick to carry out...Grace/Pardon is 'DELAY of punishment' granted by God so we can learn 'not to sin again. If we refuse to learn or mistakenly think we don't need to we will never change or be converted.
    Think of a criminal on death row...if he is 'pardoned he is expected not to go back to a life of crime but mend his ways ...but if he thinks he is free to rob and steal again punishment is waiting for sure !
    Or do you think God overlooks disobedience and rebellion ?
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    Default Re: the law of moses......and the Gospel of Gods Kingdom

    Quote Originally Posted by beta View Post
    Seems we don't all have the same understanding of what 'grace' means. I see it as 'pardon from the death-sentence the OT was quick to carry out...Grace/Pardon is 'DELAY of punishment' granted by God so we can learn 'not to sin again. If we refuse to learn or mistakenly think we don't need to we will never change or be converted.
    Think of a criminal on death row...if he is 'pardoned he is expected not to go back to a life of crime but mend his ways ...but if he thinks he is free to rob and steal again punishment is waiting for sure !
    Or do you think God overlooks disobedience and rebellion ?

    correct

    some of us understand what the Bible says and others make a pretzel out of a simple thing

    you do not understand grace if you think it is some kind of on again off again mechanism that is dependent on our behavior

    grace will have you on your knees because you love God

    condemnation will have you on your knees because you are AFRAID your actions somehow negate the grace of God
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    Default Re: the law of moses......and the Gospel of Gods Kingdom

    Quote Originally Posted by sevenseas View Post
    correct

    some of us understand what the Bible says and others make a pretzel out of a simple thing

    you do not understand grace if you think it is some kind of on again off again mechanism that is dependent on our behavior

    grace will have you on your knees because you love God

    condemnation will have you on your knees because you are AFRAID your actions somehow negate the grace of God
    So Jesus did not really mean it when He told the woman 'go, and sin no more' ?
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    Default Re: the law of moses......and the Gospel of Gods Kingdom

    Quote Originally Posted by beta View Post
    So Jesus did not really mean it when He told the woman 'go, and sin no more' ?

    so Jesus did not have the ability to forgive her?

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    Default Re: the law of moses......and the Gospel of Gods Kingdom

    Quote Originally Posted by sevenseas View Post
    so Jesus did not have the ability to forgive her?
    so why didn't Jesus say 'woman you are forgiven ?
    certainly Jesus 'forgives sin, but forgiveness does not solve our problem because we will not stop sinning and that is what God/Jesus want us to do...don't you think ?
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    Default Re: the law of moses......and the Gospel of Gods Kingdom

    Quote Originally Posted by sevenseas View Post
    correct

    some of us understand what the Bible says and others make a pretzel out of a simple thing

    you do not understand grace if you think it is some kind of on again off again mechanism that is dependent on our behavior

    grace will have you on your knees because you love God

    condemnation will have you on your knees because you are AFRAID your actions somehow negate the grace of God

    condemnnation is an impending sentance of death, Grace doesnt excuse our ways that are contrary to righteousness, it is something Jesus Gave along with the truth, those two things working in unison is salvation.

    john 1:17 "For the law was given by Moses, but GRACE AND TRUTH came by Jesus Christ."

    1 peter 1:
    Wherefore GIRD UP THE LOUINS OF YOUR MIND, be sober, and HOPE TP THE END FOR THE GRACE that is to be brought unto you at the revelation of Jesus Christ; 14AS OBEDIENT CHILDREN, not fashioning yourselves according to the FORMER LUSTS in your ignorance: 15But as he which hath called you is holy, SO BE YE HOLY in all manner of conversation; 16Because it is written, BE YE HOLY FOR I AM HOLY
    17
    And IF YE CALL ON THE FATHER, who without respect of persons JUDGETH ACCORDING TO EVERY MANS WORK, pass the time of your sojourning here IN FEAR: 18Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers; 19But with the PRECIOUS BLOOD OF CHRIST, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot: 20Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you, 21Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God.
    22Seeing YE HAVE PURIFIED YOUR SOULS IN OBEYING THE TRUTH through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently: 23Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the WORD OF GOD, which liveth and abideth for ever."

    Paul romans 6:15-18 "What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? GOD FORBID.16Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants TO OBEY, his servants ye are to whom YE OBEY; whether of SIN INTO DEATH, or of OBEDIENCE UNTO RIGHTEOUSNESS? 17But God be thanked, that ye WERE the servants of sin, but ye have OBEYED FROM THE HEART THAT FORM OF DOCTRINE which was delivered you. 18Being then made FREE FROM SIN, ye became the SERVANTS of righteousness."

    Jesus....John 8:31-34 "Then said Jesus to those Jews which BELIEVED ON HIM, IF YE CONTINUE IN MY WORD, then are ye my disciples indeed; 32And ye shall know the TRUTH, and the truth shall make you FREE. 33They answered him, We be Abraham's seed, and were never in bondage to any man: how sayest thou, Ye shall be made free? 34Jesus ANSWERED them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, WHOSOEVER COMMITETH SIN, IS THE SERVANT OF SIN"

    that form of doctrine ? John 7:16-17 ".Jesus answered them, and said, MY DOCTRINE IS NOT MINE, but his that sent me. 17If any man will do his will, he shall know of THE DOCTRINE, whether it be OF GOD, or whether I speak of myself. "

    hebrews 5:8-9 "
    8Though He was God’s Son, He learned obedience through what He suffered.l 9After He was perfected, He became the source of eternal salvation FOR ALL WHO OBEY HIM,"


    grace alone doctrines dont hold up to the word because it lacks the truth of the spirit, that only comes through The Word of Jesus Christ. grace is awesomw because its the power to change us from the rebellious to the obedient children of God. its all, about the gospel spoken forth by the Lord Jesus, and also His death and resurrection that includes all who believe numbering them among the people of God. Grace either does this

    titus 2:11-14 ":For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, 12Teaching us that, DENYING ungodliness and worldly LUSTS, WE SHOULD LIVE SOBERLY, RIGHTEOUSLY, and GODLY, IN THIS PRESENT WORLD; 13Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God AND our Saviour Jesus Christ; 14Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from ALL INIQUITY, and PURIFY unto himself a peculiar people, ZEALOUS OF GOOD WORKS."

    or its made this

    Jude 1:4 "For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, TURNING THE GRACE OF OUR GOD into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ."

    im pretty certain its all the gog folks who dont understand Gods grace, the ones who insist on ommiting the truth, to make Grace, grace. Gods grace is found in the Gospel according to matthew, Mark, Luke and John.




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  20. #80
    sevenseas
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    Default Re: the law of moses......and the Gospel of Gods Kingdom

    Quote Originally Posted by beta View Post
    so why didn't Jesus say 'woman you are forgiven ?
    certainly Jesus 'forgives sin, but forgiveness does not solve our problem because we will not stop sinning and that is what God/Jesus want us to do...don't you think ?

    oh man

    just SO revealing of the heart of the matter here

    Jesus said 10Jesus straightened up and asked her, “Woman, where are they? Has no one condemned you?”11“No one, sir,” she said.“Then neither do I condemn you,”Jesus declared. “Go now and leave your life of sin.”


    if forgiveness does not aid your sin problem, then you are condemned

    Jesus saying he did not condemn her is the same as forgiveness

    stop ADDING to what Jesus said
    limey410 likes this.

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