The bible canons

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ReverendOOB

Guest
#1
I would first like to say thank you for helping me with this... I am looking for as much info about the canons of the bible... for the people that don't know what they are they are the books of the bible the where taken out of the bible.. I would like for everyone to know about these books because they answer some of the missing stuff in the bible. Thank you for your time
 

notmyown

Senior Member
May 26, 2016
4,656
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#2
you can type "apocrypha" into any search engine to find them.

just curious.... do you think God not powerful enough to protect His Word?
 
P

popeye

Guest
#3
Bible cannons are useful against heretics and promoters of error.

Usually results in overkill and a mess.
 
R

ReverendOOB

Guest
#4
I think that he is ... I just want to know everything there is to know... I have looked it up and thank you
 
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popeye

Guest
#5
I think that he is ... I just want to know everything there is to know... I have looked it up and thank you
apocrypha

Useful to connect a few dots.

Not reliable as the Bible we now have.
 
Dec 19, 2009
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#6
I would first like to say thank you for helping me with this... I am looking for as much info about the canons of the bible... for the people that don't know what they are they are the books of the bible the where taken out of the bible.. I would like for everyone to know about these books because they answer some of the missing stuff in the bible. Thank you for your time
I'm not sure I understand your post, but I don't think anything is missing from the Bible - it is already a long book, and I fear many don't read it because it is so long. I think everything you need to know is in the book as it now exists.
 
R

ReverendOOB

Guest
#7
That is true ... I'm just looking for as much info as I can get on the bible and all the books
 
Dec 19, 2009
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#8
That is true ... I'm just looking for as much info as I can get on the bible and all the books
I once was looking for information such as that. I found the Bible introductions in the library very helpful and interesting. I think the Old Testament information was in the 220's section and the New Testament in the 230's. I did enjoy the apocryphal writings for a while (Old Testament, New Testament, and pseudepigrapha).
 
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Depleted

Guest
#9
I would first like to say thank you for helping me with this... I am looking for as much info about the canons of the bible... for the people that don't know what they are they are the books of the bible the where taken out of the bible.. I would like for everyone to know about these books because they answer some of the missing stuff in the bible. Thank you for your time
Actually, the canon is the books that were put in, not the ones taken out. There were none taken out.

Here's a good book on how the Bible came to be. https://www.amazon.com/Books-Parchments-How-English-Bible/dp/0800712145

 
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BeyondET

Guest
#10
There are 22 books mentioned in the bible but all of them have been lost or something else. any copies of these are not the original and are forged. Though I think of all that stuff in the basement of the Vatican that no one is allowed to see except a very few people which is disturbing to say the least, could some of these books be hidden away somewhere else as well, could.

Book of the Wars of the Lord – “Therefore it Is said in the Book of the Wars of the LORD, “Waheb in Suphah, and the valleys of the Arnon, and the slope of the valleys that extends to the seat of Ar, and leans to the border of Moab” (Num 21:14-15)

Book of Jasher – “And the sun stood still, and the moon stopped, until the nation took vengeance on their enemies. Is this not written in the Book of Jashar?” (Joshua 10:13). Also referenced in 2 Samuel 1:18.

Manner of the Kingdom – “Then Samuel told the people the rights and duties of the kingship, and he wrote them in a book and laid it up before the LORD. Then Samuel sent all the people away, each one to his home” (1 Samuel 10:25)

Acts of Solomon – “Now the rest of the acts of Solomon, and all that he did, and his wisdom, are they not written in the Book of the Acts of Solomon?” (1 Kings 11:41)

Chronicles of the Kings of Israel – “And the rest of the acts of Jeroboam, how he warred, and how he reigned, behold, they are written in the book of the Chronicles of the kings of Israel.“ (1 Kings 14:19). This book is also referenced in 1 Kings 16:14, 1 Kings 16:20, 2 Kings 1:18, 2 Kings 14:28

Chronicles of the Kings of Judah – “Now the rest of the acts of Rehoboam and all that he did, are they not written in the Book of the Chronicles of the Kings of Judah?” (1 Kings 14:29)

Book of the Kings of Israel – “Now the rest of the acts of Jehoshaphat, from first to last, are written in the chronicles of Jehu the son of Hanani, which are recorded in the Book of the Kings of Israel. (2 Chronicles 20:34). This is mentioned on many occasions, though under a more expanded name, as the Book of the Kings of Judah and Israel, see 2 Chronicles 16:11, 2 Chronicles 27:7, 2 Chronicles 32:32, and etc.

Annals of King David – “Joab the son of Zeruiah began to count, but did not finish. Yet wrath came upon Israel for this, and the number was not entered in the Chronicles of King David.” (1Chronicles 27:24).

Book of Nathan the Prophet, Book of Gad the Seer – “Now the acts of King David, from first to last, are written in the Chronicles of Samuel the seer, and in the Chronicles of Nathan the prophet, and in the Chronicles of Gad the seer.” (1 Chronicles 29:29). In this case, it appears as though these three books are all written by real prophets, bringing up interesting questions. One apologist has hypothesized that perhaps these three separate books were at one point composed into our contemporary books of Samuel, this is plausible but there is no way to confirm this.

History of Nathan the Prophet – “Now the rest of the acts of Solomon, from first to last, are they not written in the History of Nathan the prophet, and in the Prophecy of Ahijah the Shilonite, and in the Visions of Iddo the seer concerning Jeroboam the son of Nebat?” (2 Chronicles 9:29).

Prophecy of Ahijah – “Now the rest of the acts of Solomon, from first to last, are they not written in the History of Nathan the prophet, and in the Prophecy of Ahijah the Shilonite, and in the Visions of Iddo the seer concerning Jeroboam the son of Nebat?” (2 Chronicles 9:29). The question here is whether Ahijah was a real prophet, and if so, why his books are lost, if not, why they are referenced in Scripture.

Visions of Iddo the Seer – “Now the rest of the acts of Solomon, from first to last, are they not written in the history of Nathan the prophet, and in the prophecy of Ahijah the Shilonite, and in the Visions of Iddo the seer concerning Jeroboam the son of Nebat?” (2 Chronicles 9:29). This is also mentioned in 2 Chronicles 9:29. Also the same question as above can be posed, if Iddo was a real prophet, then why are his books lost, if not, why they are referenced in Scripture.

Iddo Genealogies – “Now the acts of Rehoboam, from first to last, are they not written in the records of Shemaiah the prophet and of Iddo the seer, according to genealogical enrollment?” (2 Chronicles 12:15)

Story of the Prophet Iddo – “The rest of the acts of Abijah, his ways and his sayings, are written in the Story of the prophet Iddo.” (2 Chronicles 13:22)

Book of Shemaiah the Prophet – “Now the acts of Rehoboam, from first to last, are they not written in the records of Shemaiah the prophet and of Iddo the seer, according to genealogical enrollment?” (2 Chronicles 12:15).

Book of Jehu – “Now the rest of the acts of Jehoshaphat, from first to last, are written in the Chronicles of Jehu the son of Hanani, which are recorded in the Book of the Kings of Israel. (2 Chronicles 20:34).

Story of the Book of Kings – “Accounts of his sons and of the many oracles against him and of the rebuilding of the house of God are written in the Story of the Book of the Kings. And Amaziah his son reigned in his place. “(2 Chronicles 24:27)

Acts of Uziah – “Now the rest of the acts of Uzziah, from first to last, Isaiah the prophet the son of Amoz wrote.” (2 Chronicles 26:22). This appears to be a lost book written by Isaiah the prophet.

Acts of the Kings of Israel – “Now the rest of the Acts of Manasseh, and his prayer to his God, and the words of the seers who spoke to him in the name of the LORD, the God of Israel, behold, they are in the Chronicles of the Kings of Israel.“ (2 Chronicles 33:18)

Sayings of the Seers – “And his prayer, and how God was moved by his entreaty, and all his sin and his faithlessness, and the sites on which he built high places and set up the Asherim and the images, before he humbled himself, behold, they are written in the Chronicles of the Seers” (2 Chronicles 33:19). In most Hebrew manuscripts “Seers” is replaced by the name “Hozai.”

Laments for Josiah – “Jeremiah also uttered a lament for Josiah; and all the singing men and singing women have spoken of Josiah in their laments to this day. They made these a rule in Israel; behold, they are written in The Laments.” (2 Chronicles 35:25)
 

trofimus

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2015
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#11
Apocrypha is not a good word, google for "deuterocanonical books".

Because you are asking about books taken from the Bible, I assume you are not asking for apocrypha (hidden books), but for deuterocanonical books, as used by the Orthodox/catholic/ethiopian churches.
 

trofimus

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2015
10,684
794
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#12
Actually, the canon is the books that were put in, not the ones taken out. There were none taken out.

Here's a good book on how the Bible came to be. https://www.amazon.com/Books-Parchments-How-English-Bible/dp/0800712145

I actually think the opposite.

The first church had much more wider Bible than us, both in the OT and NT.

Then the church was making it more and more narrow. In the 4th century, you can still find most of the deuterocanonical books in the OT, Barnabas, Didache and the Shepherd in the NT.

Then the NT was made to contain 27 books only. The OT stayed wide.

In the 16th century the protestant churches decided to distinguish between the Jewish canon (made in the 1st century) and the rest of the books, but still let all of them in the print (all reformation translations had deuterocanonical books, including the KJV).

Then in the 19th century the british bible society decided to print books without deuterocanonical books and many other bible societies followed.

The orthodox or catholic bibles are still wide, even though they have slightly different canon from each other (the orthodox one is even wider than the catholic one).

So the narrow protestant Bible is quite of a recent date - 19th century.
 
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Depleted

Guest
#13
I actually think the opposite.

The first church had much more wider Bible than us, both in the OT and NT.

Then the church was making it more and more narrow. In the 4th century, you can still find most of the deuterocanonical books in the OT, Barnabas, Didache and the Shepherd in the NT.

Then the NT was made to contain 27 books only. The OT stayed wide.

In the 16th century the protestant churches decided to distinguish between the Jewish canon (made in the 1st century) and the rest of the books, but still let all of them in the print (all reformation translations had deuterocanonical books, including the KJV).

Then in the 19th century the british bible society decided to print books without deuterocanonical books and many other bible societies followed.

The orthodox or catholic bibles are still wide, even though they have slightly different canon from each other (the orthodox one is even wider than the catholic one).

So the narrow protestant Bible is quite of a recent date - 19th century.
The first church was spending a lot of time hiding to avoid getting killed by the Romans and Alexandrians. (Alexandrian church lost and were wiped out.) So what they were doing was writing a lot of letters, and then rewriting the good ones. (Good ones -- Paul's letters, Peter's, Luke's, etc.) Then they'd pass on the good'ns. They'd pass most of them on of any value, but they were still running and hiding often.

So, if they got caught, not only were they killed, but the soldiers would search the premises for all the scrolls. And, if they found any, they'd burn them to crush this new cult called "Christians." So, what to do with the good'ns and then the really good good'ns?

They developed a system. The scrolls they liked but not enough to lose their lives over, they hid in one place. The ones worth losing their lives over were hidden even better. The thought was once the soldiers found the first stash, they wouldn't keep looking for another. The miraculous thing was there was very little contact between groups, yet each group did the same thing.

Centuries later, an emperor named Constantine came along, and finally ended the slaughter of Christians. Everyone came out of hiding carrying their scrolls with them.

BUT somewhere along the way, just like it happens today, people wanted their own opinions included, so they made up their own letters and gave them some weighted-name to them. (Mary Magdaline, Thomas, Jesus, etc.) And those scrolls survived too.

The pile of scrolls was large. So Christian scholars joined together to decide which were originals, which weren't, which was good advice, and which was "inspired." Since they were scholars and much closer to the time of Christ, I trust they'd know better than we do, if the Gospel of Thomas was real or not. (They went with Not.)

Ultimately, those same men formed that first Bible. That's what the first church gave the rest of us.
 

trofimus

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2015
10,684
794
113
#14
The first church was spending a lot of time hiding to avoid getting killed by the Romans and Alexandrians. (Alexandrian church lost and were wiped out.) So what they were doing was writing a lot of letters, and then rewriting the good ones. (Good ones -- Paul's letters, Peter's, Luke's, etc.) Then they'd pass on the good'ns. They'd pass most of them on of any value, but they were still running and hiding often.

So, if they got caught, not only were they killed, but the soldiers would search the premises for all the scrolls. And, if they found any, they'd burn them to crush this new cult called "Christians." So, what to do with the good'ns and then the really good good'ns?

They developed a system. The scrolls they liked but not enough to lose their lives over, they hid in one place. The ones worth losing their lives over were hidden even better. The thought was once the soldiers found the first stash, they wouldn't keep looking for another. The miraculous thing was there was very little contact between groups, yet each group did the same thing.

Centuries later, an emperor named Constantine came along, and finally ended the slaughter of Christians. Everyone came out of hiding carrying their scrolls with them.

BUT somewhere along the way, just like it happens today, people wanted their own opinions included, so they made up their own letters and gave them some weighted-name to them. (Mary Magdaline, Thomas, Jesus, etc.) And those scrolls survived too.

The pile of scrolls was large. So Christian scholars joined together to decide which were originals, which weren't, which was good advice, and which was "inspired." Since they were scholars and much closer to the time of Christ, I trust they'd know better than we do, if the Gospel of Thomas was real or not. (They went with Not.)

Ultimately, those same men formed that first Bible. That's what the first church gave the rest of us.
You are talking about apocrypha. I am talking about wider canon, composed of many writings not present in the today's one. Like Barnabas, Shepherd, Didaché, Sirach, Wisdom etc.

Apocrypha like the gospel of Thomas and similar were never any part of the Bible.
 

Sagart

Senior Member
May 7, 2017
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#15
I'm not sure I understand your post, but I don't think anything is missing from the Bible - it is already a long book, and I fear many don't read it because it is so long. I think everything you need to know is in the book as it now exists.
When we compare the Bibles used by various Christian groups, we find the following writings that are not found in the Protestant Canon but which are found in the Bibles of other Christian groups:

Books and Additions to Esther and Daniel that are in the Roman Catholic, Greek, and Slavonic Bibles

Tobit
Judith
The Additions to the Book of Esther found in the Greek Version
The Wisdom of Solomon
Ecclesiasticus, or the Wisdom of Jesus, Son of Sirach
Baruch
The Letter of Jeremiah (Baruch ch. 6)
The Additions to the Greek Book of Daniel
The Prayer of Azariah and the Song of the Three Jews
Susanna
Bel and the Dragon
1 Maccabees
2 Maccabees

Books in the Greek and Slavonic Bibles; Not in the Roman Catholic Canon

1 Esdras (2 Esdras in the Slavonic Bible, 3 Esdras in Appendix to the Vulgate)
The Prayer of Manasseh
Psalm 151
3 Maccabees

A composite book in the Slavonic Bible and in the Latin Vulgate Appendix

2 Esdras (3 Esdras in the Slavonic Bible, 4 Esdras in the Vulgate Appendix; “Esdras” is the Greek form of “Era”)

(Note: In the Latin Vulgate, Ezra- Nehemiah are 1 and 2 Esdras.)

A book in an Appendix to the Greek Bible

4 Maccabees (This book is included in two important Bibles from the fourth and fifth century.)
 
Dec 19, 2009
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#16
When we compare the Bibles used by various Christian groups, we find the following writings that are not found in the Protestant Canon but which are found in the Bibles of other Christian groups:

Books and Additions to Esther and Daniel that are in the Roman Catholic, Greek, and Slavonic Bibles

Tobit
Judith
The Additions to the Book of Esther found in the Greek Version
The Wisdom of Solomon
Ecclesiasticus, or the Wisdom of Jesus, Son of Sirach
Baruch
The Letter of Jeremiah (Baruch ch. 6)
The Additions to the Greek Book of Daniel
The Prayer of Azariah and the Song of the Three Jews
Susanna
Bel and the Dragon
1 Maccabees
2 Maccabees

Books in the Greek and Slavonic Bibles; Not in the Roman Catholic Canon

1 Esdras (2 Esdras in the Slavonic Bible, 3 Esdras in Appendix to the Vulgate)
The Prayer of Manasseh
Psalm 151
3 Maccabees

A composite book in the Slavonic Bible and in the Latin Vulgate Appendix

2 Esdras (3 Esdras in the Slavonic Bible, 4 Esdras in the Vulgate Appendix; “Esdras” is the Greek form of “Era”)

(Note: In the Latin Vulgate, Ezra- Nehemiah are 1 and 2 Esdras.)

A book in an Appendix to the Greek Bible

4 Maccabees (This book is included in two important Bibles from the fourth and fifth century.)
And there are many other writings from long ago that some would have us believe belong in the Bible.
 

tanakh

Senior Member
Dec 1, 2015
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#17
People worry about the Apocrypha being included in the Bible. No one is forcing anyone to read it. It was only after the reformation that the Apocryphal books were excluded Many never bother to read some of the ''official'' books, so having an additional seven or so would make very little difference to them.
 

tanakh

Senior Member
Dec 1, 2015
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#18
The Protestant Bible includes all the Scriptures found in the Hebrew Tanakh but the arrangement is entirely different.
Although they are all considered inspired they are arranged in three groups that vary in the level of that inspiration
The five books of the Law (Torah) are the most inspired and are considered to be the literal words of God. Next come the Prophets which include what we call Historical books like Samuel and Kings and lastly the Writings headed by the Psalms The writings group included Chronicles and Daniel. Because some of the books are combined it means that the total number of them are less than our bible. In the time of Jesus there was no official list of inspired Scriptures although all those we have today were recognized as being so then. It was a few hundred years later that an official list was created and that was done partly to prevent NT Scriptures from being included.
 
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OneFaith

Senior Member
Sep 5, 2016
2,270
369
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#19
I would first like to say thank you for helping me with this... I am looking for as much info about the canons of the bible... for the people that don't know what they are they are the books of the bible the where taken out of the bible.. I would like for everyone to know about these books because they answer some of the missing stuff in the bible. Thank you for your time
The Bible itself says that more was written. But God chose which writings would be in the Bible and which would not be. He is in control of all things, and when scripture was complete in His opinion, He said not to add to it nor take away from it.

And we know which ones- because they were the manuscripts found together over, and over, and over again. There were way more copies of the Bible found than any other ancient writing. And now it is set in stone- the books of the Bible are not to be changed. The Catholics have added and taken away from scripture with their "Catholic bible"- woe to them!!!
 

tanakh

Senior Member
Dec 1, 2015
4,635
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#20
The Bible itself says that more was written. But God chose which writings would be in the Bible and which would not be. He is in control of all things, and when scripture was complete in His opinion, He said not to add to it nor take away from it.

And we know which ones- because they were the manuscripts found together over, and over, and over again. There were way more copies of the Bible found than any other ancient writing. And now it is set in stone- the books of the Bible are not to be changed. The Catholics have added and taken away from scripture with their "Catholic bible"- woe to them!!!
This is completely wrong. The Bible used by the Alexandrian Jews and the Church was the Greek Septuagint that included what we call the Apocrypha. It has nothing to do with being Catholic. Also the statement about not adding or taking away applies to the book of Revelation not the whole Bible. If anyone can be accused of taking books away it is the Protestant reformers. Apart from that where does that leave copies of the New Testament only which can be bought in any book shop.