View Poll Results: can the born again believer fall away from faith,,, yes or no answer

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Thread: falling away from faith part 2.

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    Senior Member JIMBO43's Avatar
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    Default Re: falling away from faith part 2.

    When it is my calling i call....i cant help that...

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    Default Re: falling away from faith part 2.

    the trick is to listen to the music and then re read my paragraph be inspired and the answer..
    When it is my calling i call....i cant help that...

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    BeyondET
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    Default Re: falling away from faith part 2.

    Indeed some wrongly teachings been going on for some time.
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    Default Re: falling away from faith part 2.

    Quote Originally Posted by JIMBO43 View Post
    Warnings against False Teachers as written in the bible.


    1 Timothy 4:1 1Now the Spirit expressly states that in later times some will abandon the faith to follow deceitful spirits and the teachings




    This is not somthing i hope for or want for myself or buddies.

    However its reality to me unless the bible is lieing..

    Actually it says 'the faith'. In other words what is taught. They have not actually believed in Christ. Rather they have accepted the churches teaching for a while,,
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    Default Re: falling away from faith part 2.

    Quote Originally Posted by valiant View Post
    Actually it says 'the faith'. In other words what is taught. They have not actually believed in Christ. Rather they have accepted the churches teaching for a while,,
    well i suppose it open for interpratation but im certain the holy spirit would not be tricful like this.. surely faith means faith to the holy spirit. ?
    When it is my calling i call....i cant help that...

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    Senior Member notuptome's Avatar
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    Default Re: falling away from faith part 2.

    Well if you intend to teach that falling away from the faith is the same as losing one's salvation then you are in error. Salvation cannot never be lost. We can fall from being faithful in our stewardship of our salvation but we cannot ever be brought under condemnation again.

    1Co 6:20 For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God’s.


    For the cause of Christ
    Roger
    The bible is a mirror not a magnifying glass
    use it to examine yourself not others.

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    Senior Member JIMBO43's Avatar
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    Default Re: falling away from faith part 2.

    Quote Originally Posted by BeyondET View Post
    Indeed some wrongly teachings been going on for some time.
    I dont like this either... but we must bare in mind that it is possible to believe a lie..

    But which side is right ?...

    Is it faith to begin with befor your bornagain truly ? or is it bornagain first.. coz the bible makes reference to those born of the first fruits ,,,,,,, means there must be more fruits to be born of.. just my two sence anyways no biggie....
    BeyondET likes this.
    When it is my calling i call....i cant help that...

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    Default Re: falling away from faith part 2.

    Quote Originally Posted by notuptome View Post
    Well if you intend to teach that falling away from the faith is the same as losing one's salvation then you are in error. Salvation cannot never be lost. We can fall from being faithful in our stewardship of our salvation but we cannot ever be brought under condemnation again.

    1Co 6:20 For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God’s.


    For the cause of Christ
    Roger
    I believe salvation cant be lost untill judgement day... meaning those unsaved have a chance to be saved until they die like the thief on the cross.... however im not completely sure that he may well of been a lovable rougue befor he got caught for his cross affence..

    I dunno mate but if salvation can be given befor judgement day then everyone is going to want there salvation now... whwen clearly it is written to those born of the first fruits should wait patiently for there salvation ?
    When it is my calling i call....i cant help that...

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    Default Re: falling away from faith part 2.

    The reality is people can be going to church every time the doors are open, praying 5 hours a day, read their bibles 3 hours every day, witness to every thing that moves, be pastoring a church for 30 years, read the scriptures in Greek and Hebrew, live good moral lives and still be "fallen away" from the faith.

    The "fallen away" which is the Greek word aphistēmi really means to "with draw from, depart from, abstain from

    People "fall away from the faith" when they rely on what they do or don't do for life and righteousness instead of relying on what Christ has already done.
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    BeyondET
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    Default Re: falling away from faith part 2.

    Quote Originally Posted by JIMBO43 View Post
    I dont like this either... but we must bare in mind that it is possible to believe a lie..

    But which side is right ?...

    Is it faith to begin with befor your bornagain truly ? or is it bornagain first.. coz the bible makes reference to those born of the first fruits ,,,,,,, means there must be more fruits to be born of.. just my two sence anyways no biggie....
    Good question, well it seems Saul was blinded first then through faith was born again Paul, or maybe I'm the one blinded and not understanding it correctly. lol
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    Default Re: falling away from faith part 2.

    We have defined "apostasy" from our own understanding of that term. It simply means in the Greek "to depart" or "to separate from."

    So, we have heard sermons from our church upbringing where "apostasy" was used and put in some scriptures here and there and we come up with a doctrine. Now the "meaning" of apostasy has taken on a whole life within itself.

    It is used 16 times in scripture and all the meanings are the same "To separate or to depart" "stand separate from" - "withdraw from".

    Here is an example of it being used.

    1 Timothy 6:5 (KJV)
    5 Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself.


    The truth is all of us in some form at some time in our life are standing apart from some things that Christ has done for us. We can know that we have the peace of Christ but we withdraw or depart from believing in that because our mind cannot get around the natural circumstances.

    The famous scripture that is used from those believe we lose salvation is 1 Tim. 4:1 - but let's look and see what it is really saying "in context".

    They usually love to just quote the part about seducing spirits and doctrines of devils ( which they usually apply to something they don't believe in but some one else might ).

    Let's see what Paul was actually saying "departing from the faith actually is".

    1 Timothy 4:1-5 (NASB)
    1 But the Spirit explicitly says that in later times some will fall away ( apostesontai - this is the word - apostasy ) from the faith, paying attention to deceitful spirits and doctrines of demons,

    2 by means of the hypocrisy of liars seared in their own conscience as with a branding iron,

    3 men who forbid marriage and advocate abstaining from foods which God has created to be gratefully shared in by those who believe and know the truth.

    4 For everything created by God is good, and nothing is to be rejected if it is received with gratitude;

    5 for it is sanctified by means of the word of God and prayer.

    What is going to cause this "falling away" ( apostasy )...people who forbid others to marry...and not to eat certain foods...why is this departing from the faith?...it's in verse 3, 4 and 5.

    verse 3 = which God has created to be gratefully shared in by those who believe and know the truth. It's in knowing who you are in Christ - who is the truth and the faith....this not marrying and not eating certain foods to keep yourself "separated" from others is a form of self-effort and reliance on a D.I.Y. self-righteousness/holiness mindset.

    This is "departing from the faith - apostasy"....... people creating their own righteousness/holiness through their works of the flesh by self-effort when we are to believe on Christ's work on the cross and resurrection for all things.

    It has the "appearance " of good but it denies the power to effect real change ...which is Christ in us and His life.

    .. man-made religion denying the finished work of our Lord Jesus Christ.


    So we see that the word "apostasy" is not what some try to make it into.

    There are many warnings in scripture about living your own ways and thoughts contrary to God such as depending on the flesh for life instead of walking by the spirit and they should be heeded if you want His life to be manifested in us.

    Let's build believers up in Christ and feed them the proper nutrients of proclaiming the love and grace of our Lord for them and these will give them the proper foundation in Christ and then the warnings will be applied in context of Christ's finished work on the cross and not on a works-based, fear-based belief system which only nullifies the very grace of God needed for us to live in this earth.
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    Default Re: falling away from faith part 2.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grace777x70 View Post
    The reality is people can be going to church every time the doors are open, praying 5 hours a day, read their bibles 3 hours every day, witness to every thing that moves, be pastoring a church for 30 years, read the scriptures in Greek and Hebrew, live good moral lives and still be "fallen away" from the faith.

    The "fallen away" which is the Greek word aphistēmi really means to "with draw from, depart from, abstain from

    People "fall away from the faith" when they rely on what they do or don't do for life and righteousness instead of relying on what Christ has already done.
    this is true to a point if the the teacher is not trying to make amenze or hiding in the house of God..

    Yup theres some greasy preachers out there and it is written beware of them coz they stink...
    When it is my calling i call....i cant help that...

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    Senior Member JIMBO43's Avatar
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    Default Re: falling away from faith part 2.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grace777x70 View Post
    We have defined "apostasy" from our own understanding of that term. It simply means in the Greek "to depart" or "to separate from."

    So, we have heard sermons from our church upbringing where "apostasy" was used and put in some scriptures here and there and we come up with a doctrine. Now the "meaning" of apostasy has taken on a whole life within itself.

    It is used 16 times in scripture and all the meanings are the same "To separate or to depart" "stand separate from" - "withdraw from".

    Here is an example of it being used.

    1 Timothy 6:5 (KJV)
    5 Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself.


    The truth is all of us in some form at some time in our life are standing apart from some things that Christ has done for us. We can know that we have the peace of Christ but we withdraw or depart from believing in that because our mind cannot get around the natural circumstances.

    The famous scripture that is used from those believe we lose salvation is 1 Tim. 4:1 - but let's look and see what it is really saying "in context".

    They usually love to just quote the part about seducing spirits and doctrines of devils ( which they usually apply to something they don't believe in but some one else might ).

    Let's see what Paul was actually saying "departing from the faith actually is".

    1 Timothy 4:1-5 (NASB)
    1 But the Spirit explicitly says that in later times some will fall away ( apostesontai - this is the word - apostasy ) from the faith, paying attention to deceitful spirits and doctrines of demons,

    2 by means of the hypocrisy of liars seared in their own conscience as with a branding iron,

    3 men who forbid marriage and advocate abstaining from foods which God has created to be gratefully shared in by those who believe and know the truth.

    4 For everything created by God is good, and nothing is to be rejected if it is received with gratitude;

    5 for it is sanctified by means of the word of God and prayer.

    What is going to cause this "falling away" ( apostasy )...people who forbid others to marry...and not to eat certain foods...why is this departing from the faith?...it's in verse 3, 4 and 5.

    verse 3 = which God has created to be gratefully shared in by those who believe and know the truth. It's in knowing who you are in Christ - who is the truth and the faith....this not marrying and not eating certain foods to keep yourself "separated" from others is a form of self-effort and reliance on a D.I.Y. self-righteousness/holiness mindset.

    This is "departing from the faith - apostasy"....... people creating their own righteousness/holiness through their works of the flesh by self-effort when we are to believe on Christ's work on the cross and resurrection for all things.

    It has the "appearance " of good but it denies the power to effect real change ...which is Christ in us and His life.

    .. man-made religion denying the finished work of our Lord Jesus Christ.


    So we see that the word "apostasy" is not what some try to make it into.

    There are many warnings in scripture about living your own ways and thoughts contrary to God such as depending on the flesh for life instead of walking by the spirit and they should be heeded if you want His life to be manifested in us.

    Let's build believers up in Christ and feed them the proper nutrients of proclaiming the love and grace of our Lord for them and these will give them the proper foundation in Christ and then the warnings will be applied in context of Christ's finished work on the cross and not on a works-based, fear-based belief system which only nullifies the very grace of God needed for us to live in this earth.
    Im sure Greek is Good but do you speak greek ? and dont ya think it would be nice if you asked if i understood it first befor you post aload of Greek to me...


    What i go off is the latest english translation.....


    Im a new age christian.. from the guetto.. i can speak the lingo but not the bingo.
    When it is my calling i call....i cant help that...

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    Default Re: falling away from faith part 2.

    Heb 10:38 Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him.

    Jas 2:14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?
    Jas 2:15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,
    Jas 2:16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?
    Jas 2:24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

    1Ti 6:5 Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself.
    1Ti 6:6 But godliness with contentment is great gain.
    1Ti 6:7 For we brought nothing into this world, and it is certain we can carry nothing out.
    1Ti 6:8 And having food and raiment let us be therewith content.
    1Ti 6:9 But they that will be rich fall into temptation and a snare, and into many foolish and hurtful lusts, which drown men in destruction and perdition.
    1Ti 6:10 For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.

    1Jn 3:17 But whoso hath this world's good, and seeth his brother have need, and shutteth up his bowels of compassion from him, how dwelleth the love of God in him?

    1Jn 2:15 Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.
    1Jn 2:16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.
    1Jn 2:17 And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever.

    Rev 3:2 Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die: for I have not found thy works perfect before God.
    Rev 3:3 Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee.

    Rev 2:2 I know thy works, and thy labour, and thy patience, and how thou canst not bear them which are evil: and thou hast tried them which say they are apostles, and are not, and hast found them liars:
    Rev 2:3 And hast borne, and hast patience, and for my name's sake hast laboured, and hast not fainted.
    Rev 2:4 Nevertheless I have somewhat against thee, because thou hast left thy first love.
    Rev 2:5 Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.

    Rev 2:14 But I have a few things against thee, because thou hast there them that hold the doctrine of Balaam, who taught Balac to cast a stumblingblock before the children of Israel, to eat things sacrificed unto idols, and to commit fornication.
    Rev 2:15 So hast thou also them that hold the doctrine of the Nicolaitans, which thing I hate.
    Rev 2:16 Repent; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will fight against them with the sword of my mouth.

    Rev 3:15 I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot.
    Rev 3:16 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.
    Rev 3:17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:
    Rev 3:18 I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.
    Rev 3:19 As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.

    Jas 1:12 Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him.
    Jas 1:13 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:
    Jas 1:14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
    Jas 1:15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.
    Jas 1:16 Do not err, my beloved brethren.

    1Jn 3:2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
    1Jn 3:3 And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.
    1Jn 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
    1Jn 3:5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.
    1Jn 3:6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.
    1Jn 3:7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
    1Jn 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
    1Jn 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
    1Jn 3:10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.

    Rom 11:21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
    Rom 11:22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

    1Co 9:24 Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize? So run, that ye may obtain.
    1Co 9:25 And every man that striveth for the mastery is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a corruptible crown; but we an incorruptible.
    1Co 9:26 I therefore so run, not as uncertainly; so fight I, not as one that beateth the air:
    1Co 9:27 But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.

    Castaway
    adokimos
    ad-ok'-ee-mos
    From G1 (as a negative particle) and G1384; unapproved, that is, rejected; by implication worthless (literally or morally): - castaway, rejected, reprobate.

    Heb 3:12 Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.
    Heb 3:13 But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin.

    Jas 5:19 Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him;
    Jas 5:20 Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.

    2Pe 2:20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
    2Pe 2:21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
    2Pe 2:22 But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.

    2Pe 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

    1Ti 2:3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;
    1Ti 2:4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

    Rev 22:17 And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.

    Rom 4:16 Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,
    Rom 4:17 (As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations,) before him whom he believed, even God, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not as though they were.

    Rev 13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

    Luk 11:50 That the blood of all the prophets, which was shed from the foundation of the world, may be required of this generation.

    God wants all to be saved,already had the plan to give mankind salvation from the foundation of the world,so it is the same as if they have salvation at the foundation of the world,and that salvation is to whoever wants.

    God does not choose who will be saved,and not saved,without their input,for God is true love,and not evil.

    How they interpret scriptures is strange to think otherwise.

    Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
    Rom 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
    Rom 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
    Rom 8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
    Rom 8:5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
    Rom 8:6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
    Rom 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
    Rom 8:8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
    Rom 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
    Rom 8:10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.

    Gal 5:16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.
    Gal 5:17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.
    Gal 5:18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.
    Gal 5:19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
    Gal 5:20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
    Gal 5:21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
    Gal 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
    Gal 5:23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
    Gal 5:24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.
    Gal 5:25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.

    Mat 22:14 For many are called, but few are chosen.

    2Ti 2:19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.
    JIMBO43 and Roughsoul1991 like this.

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    Senior Member notuptome's Avatar
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    Default Re: falling away from faith part 2.

    Quote Originally Posted by JIMBO43 View Post
    I believe salvation cant be lost untill judgement day... meaning those unsaved have a chance to be saved until they die like the thief on the cross.... however im not completely sure that he may well of been a lovable rougue befor he got caught for his cross affence..

    I dunno mate but if salvation can be given befor judgement day then everyone is going to want there salvation now... whwen clearly it is written to those born of the first fruits should wait patiently for there salvation ?
    I believe the bible and what you are espousing is not what is taught in the bible.

    Those who are saved by grace through faith are sealed with the Holy Spirit unto the day of redemption. Judgment day is for the condemned. The saved stand before Jesus to give account of their works since salvation but it is their works that are judged and not their person. Works tried by fire but they are saved even if all of their works are consumed.

    5:10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.

    For the cause of Christ
    Roger
    The bible is a mirror not a magnifying glass
    use it to examine yourself not others.

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    Default Re: falling away from faith part 2.

    Quote Originally Posted by JIMBO43 View Post
    Im sure Greek is Good but do you speak greek ? and dont ya think it would be nice if you asked if i understood it first befor you post aload of Greek to me...


    What i go off is the latest english translation.....


    Im a new age christian.. from the guetto.. i can speak the lingo but not the bingo.

    There was only one word in there that was Greek - "apostasy".

  18. #18
    Senior Member Katy-follower's Avatar
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    Default Re: falling away from faith part 2.

    The book of Jude confirms that apostates are those without the Spirit (so they are not saved)...


    Contend for the Faith

    Beloved, while I was very diligent to write to you concerning our common salvation, I found it necessary to write to you exhorting you to contend earnestly for the faith which was once for all delivered to the saints. For certain men have crept in unnoticed, who long ago were marked out for this condemnation, ungodly men, who turn the grace of our God into lewdness and deny the only Lord God and our Lord Jesus Christ.

    Old and New Apostates (shows us what old apostates were like, so we have an example)

    But I want to remind you, though you once knew this, that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed those who did not believe. And the angels who did not keep their proper domain, but left their own abode, He has reserved in everlasting chains under darkness for the judgment of the great day; as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities around them in a similar manner to these, having given themselves over to sexual immorality and gone after strange flesh, are set forth as an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

    Likewise also these dreamers defile the flesh, reject authority, and speak evil of dignitaries. Yet Michael the archangel, in contending with the devil, when he disputed about the body of Moses, dared not bring against him a reviling accusation, but said, “The Lord rebuke you!” But these speak evil of whatever they do not know; and whatever they know naturally, like brute beasts, in these things they corrupt themselves. Woe to them! For they have gone in the way of Cain, have run greedily in the error of Balaam for profit, and perished in the rebellion of Korah.

    Apostates Depraved and Doomed

    These are spots in your love feasts, while they feast with you without fear, serving only themselves. They are clouds without water, carried about by the winds; late autumn trees without fruit, twice dead, pulled up by the roots; raging waves of the sea, foaming up their own shame; wandering stars for whom is reserved the blackness of darkness forever.

    Now Enoch, the seventh from Adam, prophesied about these men also, saying, “Behold, the Lord comes with ten thousands of His saints, to execute judgment on all, to convict all who are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have committed in an ungodly way, and of all the harsh things which ungodly sinners have spoken against Him.”

    Apostates Predicted

    These are grumblers, complainers, walking according to their own lusts; and they mouth great swelling words, flattering people to gain advantage. But you, beloved, remember the words which were spoken before by the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ: how they told you that there would be mockers in the last time who would walk according to their own ungodly lusts. These are sensual persons, who cause divisions, not having the Spirit.

    Maintain Your Life with God

    But you, beloved (believers), building yourselves up on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Spirit, keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life. And on some have compassion, making a distinction; but others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire, hating even the garment defiled by the flesh. (Distinction is made between believers and apostates)

    Glory to God

    Now to Him who is able to keep you from stumbling, And to present you faultless Before the presence of His glory with exceeding joy, To God our Savior, Who alone is wise, Be glory and majesty, Dominion and power, Both now and forever. Amen.



    1 John 2:19: "They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us"
    "If we want to study the word of God, we need to have an open mind to allow the Holy Spirit to teach us. A closed mind lets in no light. If the Spirit illuminates a scripture, we need to be willing to display a teachable spirit. When we align ourselves with any particular camp we are no longer teachable. That is elementary"



    John 14:27: "Peace I leave with you, My peace I give to you; not as the world gives do I give to you. Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid"


  19. #19
    Senior Member Katy-follower's Avatar
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    Default Re: falling away from faith part 2.

    Romans 8:28-39

    "And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose. For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren. Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified.

    What then shall we say to these things? (above) If God is for us, who can be against us? He who did not spare His own Son, but delivered Him up for us all, how shall He not with Him also freely give us all things? Who shall bring a charge against God’s elect? It is God who justifies. Who is he who condemns? It is Christ who died, and furthermore is also risen, who is even at the right hand of God, who also makes intercession for us.

    Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? As it is written: “For Your sake we are killed all day long; We are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.” Yet in all these things we are more than conquerors through Him who loved us.

    For I am persuaded that neither death nor life, nor angels nor principalities nor powers, nor things present nor things to come, nor height nor depth, nor any other created thing, shall be able to separate us from the love of God which is in Christ Jesus our Lord"

    That last paragraph continues on repeatedly incase some didn't get it the first time
    "If we want to study the word of God, we need to have an open mind to allow the Holy Spirit to teach us. A closed mind lets in no light. If the Spirit illuminates a scripture, we need to be willing to display a teachable spirit. When we align ourselves with any particular camp we are no longer teachable. That is elementary"



    John 14:27: "Peace I leave with you, My peace I give to you; not as the world gives do I give to you. Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid"


  20. #20
    Senior Member Johnny_B's Avatar
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    Default Re: falling away from faith part 2.

    He sees us seating in heaven already "even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you have been saved—6 and raised us up with him and seated us with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus,"
    Grace777x70, JIMBO43 and Rosemaryx like this.
    John 6:63, 65 "It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh is no help at all. The words that I have spoken to you are spirit and life....65 And he said, “This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless it is granted him by the Father.”

    I Corinthians 4:7 "For who sees anything different in you? What do you have that you did not receive? If then you received it, why do you boast as if you did not receive it?"

    Born in the Spirit & word, granted by the Father. EE-TEOW




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