And DOES Them....
- Thread starter Chris1975
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
we must produces roighteousness because Love is produced through the suffering and death of Jesus.
"we must" can either be percieved as oppresive or freeing.
Genesis 2:And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat: 17But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die."
this is for mans freedom and Life, His safety he is given freedom and choice to eat of any tree, and warned of the One thing that will cause His death, really no different from a Loving Father saying you can play with all of my tools, but do you see this jug of poison, you must not drink this, or you will surely die"
its not an oppression, its a safety instruction. it then becomes oppressive here
genesis 3:4-5 "And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die: 5For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil"
the effect on eves mind is evident its the idea that "God lied, He just doesnt want you to be like Him" hes keeping something from you that is good. and He does it to them by taking what God said, twisting it and omitting the truth that " you will surely die if you do this."
after He says this instantly she thinksgenesis 3: 6 "And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat."
the result is fear of Gods word in mans mindGenesis 3:8-10 "And they heard the voice of the LORD God walking in the garden in the cool of the day: and Adam and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the LORD God amongst the trees of the garden. 9And the LORD God called unto Adam, and said unto him, Where art thou? 10And he said, I heard thy voice in the garden, and I was afraid, because I was naked; and I hid myself. "
the result of man becoming afraid of Gods word, just 10 generations later. not even 3 full chapters....
Genesis 6:5-7 "And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. 6And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart. 7And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them."
satan changed Our perception of Gods Word so that His word seems to be oppressive, as if He is keeping whats good from us, being stingy with something thats good. Rather than " you must not" being what it truly is, a safeguard and an instruction to keep us safe. The warnings and the you musts are there, new testament and old. the reason we need the Gospel is to change our perception back to the truth, that if God says something its for us, for our Life and good, especially when its made important with "you must" or " verily, verily i say"
john 17:3-4 "And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent. 4I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do. "
v6-8 "I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word. 7Now they have known that all things whatsoever thou hast given me are of thee. 8For I have given unto them the words which thou gavest me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came out from thee, and they have believed that thou didst send me
john 17:14-16 "I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world. [FONT=Arimo, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif].......v17 [/FONT]."Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth."
the truth is what changes our minds eye. you must is for us not against us, its against the sin in us, but for the spirit in us. its what puts to death the nature of sin, accepting that along with Jesus Love on the cross. that proves God Loves us and isnt trying to keep anything good from us by His word, its up to us to see the truth.
1 john 3:8 "He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil."
wow these threads that should be good for people disintegrate so quickly just a reminder to anyone who believes they Know
2 timothy 2:20-26 "But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour. 21If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work. 22Flee also youthful lusts: but follow righteousness, faith, charity, peace, with them that call on the Lord out of a pure heart. 23But foolish and unlearned questions avoid, knowing that they do gender strifes.
24And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient, 25In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth; 26And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will."
bless you guys
imna go find a different thread to babble on lol
2 timothy 2:20-26 "But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour. 21If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work. 22Flee also youthful lusts: but follow righteousness, faith, charity, peace, with them that call on the Lord out of a pure heart. 23But foolish and unlearned questions avoid, knowing that they do gender strifes.
24And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient, 25In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth; 26And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will."
bless you guys
imna go find a different thread to babble on lol 
"With flames of fire He will take vengeance on those who know not God and who obey not the gospel of His Son."
"For if it is hard for the righteous to be saved, what will become of the ungodly and the sinner?"
"Each one of you must work out his salvation with fear and trembling."
God is a loving Father, but He is also a Judge, who must be obeyed.
"For if it is hard for the righteous to be saved, what will become of the ungodly and the sinner?"
"Each one of you must work out his salvation with fear and trembling."
God is a loving Father, but He is also a Judge, who must be obeyed.
What skinski7 belief system that has been brought up by our member here in CC "Sparkman".
Quote:
This is a Pelagian website by Mike DeSario. I believe skinski7, a Pelagian member here, refers people to it sometimes.
Notice that he calls just about every Reformed person a false teacher:
False Teachers of the Past and P
Wolves like to call other people wolves. It's part of their gameplan.
He even calls Martin Luther a false teacher. I don't think the vast majority of Protestants would agree
Unquote
http://christianchat.com/bible-disc...s-arminianism-good-article-2.html#post2472711
Here is how they operate against people.
[video=youtube;s7Is_6uSSf0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s7Is_6uSSf0[/video]
Quote:
This is a Pelagian website by Mike DeSario. I believe skinski7, a Pelagian member here, refers people to it sometimes.
Notice that he calls just about every Reformed person a false teacher:
False Teachers of the Past and P
Wolves like to call other people wolves. It's part of their gameplan.
He even calls Martin Luther a false teacher. I don't think the vast majority of Protestants would agree
Unquote
http://christianchat.com/bible-disc...s-arminianism-good-article-2.html#post2472711
Here is how they operate against people.
[video=youtube;s7Is_6uSSf0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s7Is_6uSSf0[/video]
John does say "If we say we have no sin - we lie." John is addressing those that say they have no sin. All people still have sin in the flesh. The inner man in Christ - the new creation - does not sin nor can sin but we can give in to the deeds of the body.
Romans 7:16-23 (NASB)
[SUP]16 [/SUP] But if I do the very thing I do not want to do, I agree with the Law, confessing that the Law is good.
[SUP]17 [/SUP] So now, no longer am I the one doing it, but sin which dwells in me.
[SUP]18 [/SUP] For I know that nothing good dwells in me, that is, in my flesh; for the willing is present in me, but the doing of the good is not.
[SUP]19 [/SUP] For the good that I want, I do not do, but I practice the very evil that I do not want.
[SUP]20 [/SUP] But if I am doing the very thing I do not want, I am no longer the one doing it, but sin which dwells in me.
[SUP]21 [/SUP] I find then the principle that evil is present in me, the one who wants to do good.
[SUP]22 [/SUP] For I joyfully concur with the law of God in the inner man,
[SUP]23 [/SUP] but I see a different law in the members of my body, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin which is in my members.
Romans 8:10 (NASB)
[SUP]10 [/SUP] If Christ is in you, though the body is dead because of sin, yet the spirit is alive because of righteousness.
John was also addressing in 1 John 1 gnostic beliefs - They were the beginning of a sect called the Gnostics who believed that they had no sin and thus didn't need Christ.
Muzungu256 - what Grace777 is conveniently bypassing is the section of Romans just after the passages above:
Romans 7
[SUP]24 [/SUP]O wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death? [SUP]25 [/SUP]I thank God—through Jesus Christ our Lord!So then, with the mind I myself serve the law of God, but with the flesh the law of sin.
At this point pause......which one should you serve? The Law of God, or the Law of Sin?
Let's go on:
Romans 8
8 There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus,[SUP][a][/SUP] who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. <if you walk according to the Spirit = no condemnation; If you fulfill the lusts of the flesh you will be condemned> [SUP]2 [/SUP]For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death. <muzungu - do you see this? That the new law overrides the old law, and we are no longer bound by the law of sin and death, so long as we live by the new law of the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus> [SUP]3 [/SUP]For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin: He condemned sin in the flesh, [SUP]4 [/SUP]that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. <we fulfill the law in the Spirit, if we walk according to the Spirit> [SUP]5 [/SUP]For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. [SUP]6 [/SUP]For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. [SUP]7 [/SUP]Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be. [SUP]8 [/SUP]So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God. <you cannot live according to the flesh and still call yourself a saved Christian. You need to forsake your sins. God wishes all to come to repentance. He is longsuffering towards us. But the day of judgement is at hand. Whom will you serve?>
[SUP]9 [/SUP]But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. <many here will claim to have the Spirit, yet by their behaviour and sinful lifestyle, they are disqualified. Unrepentant. You will know them by their fruit.> Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His. [SUP]10 [/SUP]And if Christ is in you, the body is dead because of sin <you have victory over the flesh>, but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. [SUP]11 [/SUP]But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you. <give life to our mortal bodies, by implication, means that we will not serve the fallen nature but be led by the Spirit. We have a new master. And our bodies respond in obedience and holiness to the new Master>
Romans 12
12 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that you present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable to God, which is your reasonable service. [SUP]2 [/SUP]And do not be conformed to this world <an instruction>, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind <new man in Christ>, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.
- that is the will of God. Our transformation. Holiness. Separation unto Him. A holy sacrifice. Present your bodies. Not spotted by the world.
If any man tells you that you can have your sins and Christ together, flee from such a man.
Romans 7
[SUP]24 [/SUP]O wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death? [SUP]25 [/SUP]I thank God—through Jesus Christ our Lord!So then, with the mind I myself serve the law of God, but with the flesh the law of sin.
At this point pause......which one should you serve? The Law of God, or the Law of Sin?
Let's go on:
Romans 8
8 There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus,[SUP][a][/SUP] who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. <if you walk according to the Spirit = no condemnation; If you fulfill the lusts of the flesh you will be condemned> [SUP]2 [/SUP]For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death. <muzungu - do you see this? That the new law overrides the old law, and we are no longer bound by the law of sin and death, so long as we live by the new law of the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus> [SUP]3 [/SUP]For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin: He condemned sin in the flesh, [SUP]4 [/SUP]that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. <we fulfill the law in the Spirit, if we walk according to the Spirit> [SUP]5 [/SUP]For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. [SUP]6 [/SUP]For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. [SUP]7 [/SUP]Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be. [SUP]8 [/SUP]So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God. <you cannot live according to the flesh and still call yourself a saved Christian. You need to forsake your sins. God wishes all to come to repentance. He is longsuffering towards us. But the day of judgement is at hand. Whom will you serve?>
[SUP]9 [/SUP]But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. <many here will claim to have the Spirit, yet by their behaviour and sinful lifestyle, they are disqualified. Unrepentant. You will know them by their fruit.> Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His. [SUP]10 [/SUP]And if Christ is in you, the body is dead because of sin <you have victory over the flesh>, but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. [SUP]11 [/SUP]But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you. <give life to our mortal bodies, by implication, means that we will not serve the fallen nature but be led by the Spirit. We have a new master. And our bodies respond in obedience and holiness to the new Master>
Romans 12
12 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that you present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable to God, which is your reasonable service. [SUP]2 [/SUP]And do not be conformed to this world <an instruction>, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind <new man in Christ>, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.
- that is the will of God. Our transformation. Holiness. Separation unto Him. A holy sacrifice. Present your bodies. Not spotted by the world.
If any man tells you that you can have your sins and Christ together, flee from such a man.
There is a massive difference between sinning and sin. Without knowing that truth - we get deceived into thinking we are sinless in our flesh - which is pure nonsense.
These 2 posts below shows the difference between "sin" and "sinning" as Paul talks about in Romans 6 & 7.
http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/153188-does-them-2.html#post3113034
http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/153188-does-them-2.html#post3113045
These 2 posts below shows the difference between "sin" and "sinning" as Paul talks about in Romans 6 & 7.
http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/153188-does-them-2.html#post3113034
http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/153188-does-them-2.html#post3113045
Romans 7 shows the two conflicts that are going on in a believer. One is not real them ( not their true nature ). The flesh even though it stems from the corrupted Adamic influence in the world is now not the real us.
When we die and go to be with the Lord - the flesh is not coming with us!...selah
The flesh and the law of sin in our body - it wages war against the real us in Christ. Romans 7:14-22
The flesh is ways to think and act that "were" the manner of living we had when we were in Adam but now are left over the old man died on the cross with Christ. ( Eph 4:22 - in reference to your former manner of living )
Romans 7:17-18 (NASB)
[SUP]17 [/SUP] So now, no longer am I ( the new man ) the one doing it, but sin which dwells in me (in my body which has the flesh with the power of sin in it ).
[SUP]18[/SUP] For I know that nothing good dwells in me (my body which has the flesh in it ), that is, in my flesh; for the willing is present in me ( in my new man ), but the doing of the good is not.
Romans 7:20-23 (NASB)
[SUP]20 [/SUP] But if I am doing the very thing I ( new man) do not want, I ( new man ) am no longer the one doing it, but sin which dwells in me ( the law of sin in the flesh).
[SUP]21[/SUP] I find then the principle that evil is present in me (new man ), the one who wants to do good.
[SUP]22 [/SUP] For I joyfully concur with the law of God in the inner man, ( new man in Christ),
[SUP]23 [/SUP] but I see a different law in the members of my body, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin which is in my members.
italics = my words
Then Romans chapter 8 comes in and shows us how to walk according to the Spirit and not the flesh to put to death the deeds of the body ( flesh in the body ). Rom 8:13
We are not fighting a civil war within ourselves ( the flesh and the law of sin do not belong to our new nature which in Christ. ). Jesus said " A house divided will not stand."
We do not have "2 selves" we have the true self in Christ and we still have the flesh. Even though the flesh manifests "itself" with "its" lusts through our bodies - it is not the real us in Christ.
We are still responsible for the deeds done in the body as they will affect our life here on this earth and we are to yield our members to the righteousness that is in us in Christ.
Sin is destructive and will destroy us and those around us if we don't walk by the Spirit - our true selves in Christ because Christ is joined to our spirit and His life will bear fruit on us the branches. The Holy Spirit transforms us as we behold the glory of the Lord as in a mirror.
Sin is deceitful and distorts our view of our loving Father, ourselves and others.
We have such a great salvation in our Lord Jesus Christ! Let's keep our eyes on the Lord and not the circumstances of life. Peter walking on the water is a perfect picture of the true Christian life.
When we die and go to be with the Lord - the flesh is not coming with us!...selah
The flesh and the law of sin in our body - it wages war against the real us in Christ. Romans 7:14-22
The flesh is ways to think and act that "were" the manner of living we had when we were in Adam but now are left over the old man died on the cross with Christ. ( Eph 4:22 - in reference to your former manner of living )
Romans 7:17-18 (NASB)
[SUP]17 [/SUP] So now, no longer am I ( the new man ) the one doing it, but sin which dwells in me (in my body which has the flesh with the power of sin in it ).
[SUP]18[/SUP] For I know that nothing good dwells in me (my body which has the flesh in it ), that is, in my flesh; for the willing is present in me ( in my new man ), but the doing of the good is not.
Romans 7:20-23 (NASB)
[SUP]20 [/SUP] But if I am doing the very thing I ( new man) do not want, I ( new man ) am no longer the one doing it, but sin which dwells in me ( the law of sin in the flesh).
[SUP]21[/SUP] I find then the principle that evil is present in me (new man ), the one who wants to do good.
[SUP]22 [/SUP] For I joyfully concur with the law of God in the inner man, ( new man in Christ),
[SUP]23 [/SUP] but I see a different law in the members of my body, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin which is in my members.
italics = my words
Then Romans chapter 8 comes in and shows us how to walk according to the Spirit and not the flesh to put to death the deeds of the body ( flesh in the body ). Rom 8:13
We are not fighting a civil war within ourselves ( the flesh and the law of sin do not belong to our new nature which in Christ. ). Jesus said " A house divided will not stand."
We do not have "2 selves" we have the true self in Christ and we still have the flesh. Even though the flesh manifests "itself" with "its" lusts through our bodies - it is not the real us in Christ.
We are still responsible for the deeds done in the body as they will affect our life here on this earth and we are to yield our members to the righteousness that is in us in Christ.
Sin is destructive and will destroy us and those around us if we don't walk by the Spirit - our true selves in Christ because Christ is joined to our spirit and His life will bear fruit on us the branches. The Holy Spirit transforms us as we behold the glory of the Lord as in a mirror.
Sin is deceitful and distorts our view of our loving Father, ourselves and others.
We have such a great salvation in our Lord Jesus Christ! Let's keep our eyes on the Lord and not the circumstances of life. Peter walking on the water is a perfect picture of the true Christian life.
The fact is - there is sin in our flesh just like Paul said there was in Romans 7:17-22.
Not understanding this is a stumbling block to the "sinless perfection in the flesh" believers. They do not know the difference between "sin" the noun and "sinning" the verb that Paul is talking about in Romans chapters 6-7.
I said this a few times before and I will say it again - the natural mind of man cannot see the realities of the new creation in Christ.
It will constantly be trying to refute the new inner man created in righteousness and holiness and it will be complete foolishness to it and "appear" to be gnostic.
This is where they come up with having to "maintain" their own righteousness and salvation for going to be with the Lord for eternity.
One of the reasons gnostics were birthed is because of the truth the apostles were talking about in the new birth in Christ - the new man circumcised with the hand of God in separating the flesh from the inner man in Christ...aka the circumcision of Christ. The natural mind of man took over and created their own "reality" - apart from Christ.
This isn't even remotely close to true believers in Christ. Everything to do with the new creation is because we are "in Christ". Paul talked about the true believer being in Christ in some form 140X times in his letters.
I advocate that it's only by relying on the grace of Christ that we can truly live godly lives in Christ. I have written over 100x times that as we have received Christ ( which is by grace through faith ) - so we walk in Him. Col.2:6
Not understanding this is a stumbling block to the "sinless perfection in the flesh" believers. They do not know the difference between "sin" the noun and "sinning" the verb that Paul is talking about in Romans chapters 6-7.
I said this a few times before and I will say it again - the natural mind of man cannot see the realities of the new creation in Christ.
It will constantly be trying to refute the new inner man created in righteousness and holiness and it will be complete foolishness to it and "appear" to be gnostic.
This is where they come up with having to "maintain" their own righteousness and salvation for going to be with the Lord for eternity.
One of the reasons gnostics were birthed is because of the truth the apostles were talking about in the new birth in Christ - the new man circumcised with the hand of God in separating the flesh from the inner man in Christ...aka the circumcision of Christ. The natural mind of man took over and created their own "reality" - apart from Christ.
This isn't even remotely close to true believers in Christ. Everything to do with the new creation is because we are "in Christ". Paul talked about the true believer being in Christ in some form 140X times in his letters.
I advocate that it's only by relying on the grace of Christ that we can truly live godly lives in Christ. I have written over 100x times that as we have received Christ ( which is by grace through faith ) - so we walk in Him. Col.2:6
you all make so good points i dont know what to believe its all backed up by scriptures!!!!!! im confused
i agree with mr grace skinsi and chris lol
i agree with mr grace skinsi and chris lol
Be Bold. Read it. Believe it. If you don't understand it initially, that's ok. You will grow. Make a decision today to believe the word of God as you see it. And the Holy Spirit will reveal this truth to you. Maybe immediately, or in due course of time.
Whatever you do, don't twist scripture or try make it say something else. That is a dangerous path, and you will be led astray.
All the best in your journey.
We are saved by the life of the Lord Jesus Christ which is in us in our new creation. We are now learning how to walk by the spirit - which is our spirit in union with Christ by the Holy Spirit ( whom Jesus said would be in us forever - John 14:16 ).
Romans 5:10-11 (NASB)
[SUP]10 [/SUP] For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life.
[SUP]11 [/SUP] And not only this, but we also exult in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received the reconciliation.
Living by the flesh does not stop making us a new creation in Christ. It makes us deceived by sin and distorts our view of the Lord's love and grace towards God Himself, others and ourselves.
I have found the very same thing happening in my life. The more I see Christ and what He has done - and the more I agree with His work - the more He becomes manifested in my life and the things of the flesh just have fallen off like dead leaves on a branch.
Transformation is really the emerging new man that is in Christ being manifested in our bodies while we are here on this earth.
This transformation of what already is in us in Christ in our new creation ( It is not called a "new evolution" ) can be seen by man as our minds get renewed to the truth of Christ's work for us. Rom. 12:2
We are simply "being" who we already are when we "put on Christ".
The new man in Christ is like the invisible man - when he put clothes on, people could then see him. We put on Christ and people see the new man in Christ manifested and God gets glorified.
This all happens by grace through faith in what Christ has done and we participate in it with Him for it is God who is at work in us both to will and to do of His good pleasure. He will be faithful to us. Phil. 2:13
As we learn to walk by the spirit instead of the flesh - then we experience God's kind of life in our lives.
Romans 5:10-11 (NASB)
[SUP]10 [/SUP] For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life.
[SUP]11 [/SUP] And not only this, but we also exult in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received the reconciliation.
Living by the flesh does not stop making us a new creation in Christ. It makes us deceived by sin and distorts our view of the Lord's love and grace towards God Himself, others and ourselves.
I have found the very same thing happening in my life. The more I see Christ and what He has done - and the more I agree with His work - the more He becomes manifested in my life and the things of the flesh just have fallen off like dead leaves on a branch.
Transformation is really the emerging new man that is in Christ being manifested in our bodies while we are here on this earth.
This transformation of what already is in us in Christ in our new creation ( It is not called a "new evolution" ) can be seen by man as our minds get renewed to the truth of Christ's work for us. Rom. 12:2
We are simply "being" who we already are when we "put on Christ".
The new man in Christ is like the invisible man - when he put clothes on, people could then see him. We put on Christ and people see the new man in Christ manifested and God gets glorified.
This all happens by grace through faith in what Christ has done and we participate in it with Him for it is God who is at work in us both to will and to do of His good pleasure. He will be faithful to us. Phil. 2:13
As we learn to walk by the spirit instead of the flesh - then we experience God's kind of life in our lives.
And DOES them...
That is absolutely correct.
But there is a bit of a problem with peoples understanding of HOW they are done.
They are done by the Work of God and not our own CARNAL work and CARNAL understanding.
John 15:5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.
Have you found out yet that you can't do them by yourself???
Good, that's the way its supposed to be...
Galatians 3:24 Wherefore the law (The requirement of our work) was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
I put that in parentheses, its not really in that verse, but I thought it might help...
That is absolutely correct.
But there is a bit of a problem with peoples understanding of HOW they are done.
They are done by the Work of God and not our own CARNAL work and CARNAL understanding.
John 15:5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.
Have you found out yet that you can't do them by yourself???
Good, that's the way its supposed to be...
Galatians 3:24 Wherefore the law (The requirement of our work) was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
I put that in parentheses, its not really in that verse, but I thought it might help...
thanks bro God bless you!!!! i have read the bible cover to cover and i must admit many times i read things here that i could have never even thought about!!!!!! like i started reading and thought the rapture would be all over the place because peoples be talking about it quite a bit but its nowhere!!!!!!! i have learned to put labels on what i believe here thats good so i can describe more what i believe like "amillennial" and such.......... still learning!!!!!!!!! its hard for me to disagree with you or grace because both are backed up by scripture all i know is when you believe in JesusChrist you will experience a new birth baptized in the Spirit and then you want to obey Him!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Well let's test this.
[h=1]Ephesians 2:10New King James Version (NKJV)[/h] [SUP]10 [/SUP]For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.
- By His Spirit we have a new heart (we are His workmanship) in Christ Jesus
- The objective is for good works
- The Good works God prepared beforehand (His Will)
- That we should walk in them (we still have a part to play. We are to agree with this - obey the Lord - and do accordingly).
Jonah is an example:
- Jonah was a prophet of God
- God's objective was for the salvation of Nineveh (from destruction)
- God had always known, from before time began, that Jonah was to be the one he called to do this work.
- Yet Jonah ran away in the opposite direction (his personal objectives and God's objectives were not in sync).
- Jonah was swallowed by the fish and remained in the belly of the fish for 3 days. His soul was in Hades (hell) - see Jonah 2v1 and 2v6.
- Jonah repented (2v1)
- God relented and Jonah was vomited out (soul reattached to his body).
- Jonah fulfilled what God called Him to do.
Now: if Jonah had not repented, his portion would have been hell. Because of his repentance (and God's mercy) he was restored and fulfilled the works which God had prepared beforehand that he walks in them. It is not always the same for every believer. Not everyone repents, unfortunately.
[h=1]Ephesians 2:10New King James Version (NKJV)[/h] [SUP]10 [/SUP]For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.
- By His Spirit we have a new heart (we are His workmanship) in Christ Jesus
- The objective is for good works
- The Good works God prepared beforehand (His Will)
- That we should walk in them (we still have a part to play. We are to agree with this - obey the Lord - and do accordingly).
Jonah is an example:
- Jonah was a prophet of God
- God's objective was for the salvation of Nineveh (from destruction)
- God had always known, from before time began, that Jonah was to be the one he called to do this work.
- Yet Jonah ran away in the opposite direction (his personal objectives and God's objectives were not in sync).
- Jonah was swallowed by the fish and remained in the belly of the fish for 3 days. His soul was in Hades (hell) - see Jonah 2v1 and 2v6.
- Jonah repented (2v1)
- God relented and Jonah was vomited out (soul reattached to his body).
- Jonah fulfilled what God called Him to do.
Now: if Jonah had not repented, his portion would have been hell. Because of his repentance (and God's mercy) he was restored and fulfilled the works which God had prepared beforehand that he walks in them. It is not always the same for every believer. Not everyone repents, unfortunately.