Job was a sinner too!

pottersclay · May 31, 2017

I think the book of job should humble all of us and at the same time place a grateful heart in us all.
God doesn't need to explain to us the why's and where's of his ways. Certainly he answers to no one, and does not need to justify his actions.
Job finds himself totally without but yet the Lord restores above and beyond.

I think there was a comment made a few post back about comparing job with Jesus. There is a comparison that I made in that the Lord spoke highly of both. Job a up right and just man.
Jesus his beloved son in whom he was well pleased. Now look at what they suffered being favored of God. Job replied "blessed be the name of the Lord". Jesus replied "they will be done".
To have that faith is what we should all aim for imo.

prove-all · May 31, 2017

Denadii said:

4And his sons went and feasted in their houses, every one [his day];
and sent and called for their three sisters to eat and to drink with them.

[his day] this could be they where [each celebrating there birthdays with a feast]

The day of death is better than the day of one's birth (Ecclesiastes 7:1).

The Encyclopedia Judaica could not be more blunt:
"The celebration of birthdays is unknown in traditional Jewish ritual."

Romans 9:11 (KJV)
(For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil,
that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works,
but of him that calleth)

As a midrash explains, 'When a person is born, it is not known what he will be like
when grown and what his deeds will be – whether righteous or wicked, good, or evil.

a newborn has a hole life of work and trials ahead, not knowing the outcome,
an old man who has lived a good God fearing life, knowing he will later be comferted.
some like below felt unworthy to have ever been, knowing how much we ow our very
existence to him.

After this Job opened his mouth and cursed the day of his birth.

The prophet Jeremiah wrote:14 Cursed be the day in which I was born!
Let the day not be blessed in which my mother bore me!

-
birthdays was not celebrated

But when Herod's birthday was celebrated
of all the holy people in the Scriptures, no one is recorded to have kept a feast
or held a great banquet on his birthday. It is only sinners (like Pharaoh and Herod

Jesus Christ did not mark the anniversary of His birth,
nor did He make reference to it in any such fashion.

Nor did any of the Apostles so much as even mention Christ’s birth date or their own...

Birthdays apparently originated in magic and mythology.
They were traditionally also celebrated by followers of Mithra.

Birthdays themselves apparently were adopted by Greco-Romans
because of Mithraism(Wikipedia. Birthdays

Rockrz · May 31, 2017

The second death will never touch me because of the faith and obedience of Jesus Christ of Nazareth!

(second death being thrown into the lake o fire)

We find revelation from the Lord through out the entire Word of God... there are things taught in the New Testament that shed light on why Job went thru his ordeal that most do not think about not realizing the massive amount of truth and revelation found in the New Testament that one must be born again and listening to the Holy Spirit (the Great Teacher) to understand.

And, walking with God involves being in agreement with Him which involves in accepting what He says and acting as though what He says is true.

Enoch and Elijah are part of the human race, so this is applicable to them.

It's also still applicable to those taken in the rapture cause they are being taken from this natural world physically... all will leave this natural world physically once (either by dying physically or by rapture) and the rapture is still leaving this natural world physically.

Many endtimes junkies believe Enoch and Elijah are going to be the two witnesses and if that's true, they will still end up dying physically.

It'll be interesting to see how this all works out... then we can see who's speculation was closest to being right.

Maybe the Lord will have a prize for the nearest speculator... you know, an all expenses paid trip to Saturn er something.
I'd rather sit on the Father's lap myself and just hang out with Him... so I could finally get to meet my father!

I think it says they wuz drinking the booze... we find in the New Testament that this is sinful cause it leads to intoxication which is a sin.... not to mention it's prove to be toxic for the brain and the liver.

Job was in fear that his chillins would sin and be killed... he was right.

Denadii · May 31, 2017

prove-all said:

4And his sons went and feasted in their houses, every one [his day];
and sent and called for their three sisters to eat and to drink with them.

[his day] this could be they where [each celebrating there birthdays with a feast]

The day of death is better than the day of one's birth (Ecclesiastes 7:1).

The Encyclopedia Judaica could not be more blunt:
"The celebration of birthdays is unknown in traditional Jewish ritual."

Romans 9:11 (KJV)
(For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil,
that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works,
but of him that calleth)

As a midrash explains, 'When a person is born, it is not known what he will be like
when grown and what his deeds will be – whether righteous or wicked, good, or evil.

a newborn has a hole life of work and trials ahead, not knowing the outcome,
an old man who has lived a good God fearing life, knowing he will later be comferted.
some like below felt unworthy to have ever been, knowing how much we ow our very
existence to him.

After this Job opened his mouth and cursed the day of his birth.

The prophet Jeremiah wrote:14 Cursed be the day in which I was born!
Let the day not be blessed in which my mother bore me!

-
birthdays was not celebrated

But when Herod's birthday was celebrated
of all the holy people in the Scriptures, no one is recorded to have kept a feast
or held a great banquet on his birthday. It is only sinners (like Pharaoh and Herod

Jesus Christ did not mark the anniversary of His birth,
nor did He make reference to it in any such fashion.

Nor did any of the Apostles so much as even mention Christ’s birth date or their own...

Birthdays apparently originated in magic and mythology.
They were traditionally also celebrated by followers of Mithra.

Birthdays themselves apparently were adopted by Greco-Romans
because of Mithraism(Wikipedia. Birthdays

I cannot find any translation where it says the sons of Job celebrated on his birthday...The consensus is they celebrated each in his own turn....They took turns. The rest of what you wrote I have no issue with

Laish · May 31, 2017

dcontroversal said:

Yes correct that's why I said or was off .Elihu , He did not speak wrongly of God his words were correct. It is that I believe he was lacking one thing God had for Job. Love . Elihu's rebuke of Job was more harsh than even God's when he spoke to Job out of the whirlwind. Also Elihu was angry or burned with anger towards Job and his three friends but God burned with anger He said he was angry only with the three . Nothing to make doctrine from just a observation.

Blessings
Bill

samuel23 · May 31, 2017

There sure is a lot of folks reading things into the book of Job. First of all, Job was the most righteous man on earth at that time, that is why he was picked. The dispute was between God and Satan with all the angels looking on. Satan was actually making fun of God's creation(man) by saying that the most righteous man on earth was only honoring God because of all the material things that he had. So the contest begin, God had to have had great faith in Job. Here is what Job had to contend with, first why would a righteous God destroy all the good that He had given me(Job did not know it was Satan), second, he lost all his possessions and his children in one day. Third, things got worse, he was racked with physical pain, his wife rejected him and told him to give up, he was treated with contempt by even low class people(loss of position). Fourth, his three friends were trying to make sense of it all by telling him that he had to have sinned to anger God so, fifth, he was forced to defend himself against the lie that he had committed a sin thereby making him look self righteous. The story of Job exists because Job was the most righteous man on earth in his time, and he did not disappoint God, yes at one point he voiced his complaint as to why all of it was happening, but that is all, so lets not join in with the three friends and try to make Job a sinner...God called him righteous, not because he never sinned but because his faith in God never failed.

Ariel82 · May 31, 2017

This statement needs to be highlighted!

.

It was Job's Faith in God and His mercy,not his joblessness that made Job righteous. When Job sinned,he repented and asked God to cleanse him and had Faith that our loving Father forgives and cleanse us.

I would add that Job patience wasn't that he didn't complain, but that even when he was in despair, he had Faith and trust in God.

Ariel82 · May 31, 2017

Denadii said:

It doesn't say they only partied after working..it said they feasted for days until those feasts days "ran its course", which sounds like they ran out of booze and food. It was only after the parties that Job offered sacrifices in case his sons cursed God in their hearts.

God doesn't say that Job's kids were righteous....can you NOT be righteous and Not be bad?

Denadii · May 31, 2017

Ariel82 said:

God may not have called them righteous but He never said they were bad either....Why are you judging them anyway?

Denadii · May 31, 2017

This thread is getting really tedious. Its become like a whirlpool, constantly circling around the same thoughts...It must be finished...Call it a draw....I'm dropping out of this thread

BillG · May 31, 2017

Denadii said:

No probs mate

Stephen63 · May 31, 2017

Ariel82 said:

That article was awful...will listen to the video when I have more time and after I check a few more things....the articles mentions Job's siblings and fair weather friends. He mixing them with the three friends who have bad advice and misses a lot of what is conveyed in Job just to say...God didn't allow Satan to bring trouble to Job.

The Bible clearly says God allowed Satan to touch Job.

What did you expect?

Consider who posted it..... ~sigh~

Stephen63 · May 31, 2017

mailmandan said:

I once heard someone on CC who teaches sinless perfection make this statement:

"Job 1:8 And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil?

If Job could be perfect under the old covenant, why can't we under the new with the help of the Spirit?"

Yet perfect here does not mean that Job was sinless, without fault of defect, flawless, absolutely perfect 100% of the time. *Job had admitted his human sinfulness (Job 7:21; 13:26).*

The word "perfect" which in Hebrew is "tam" does not necessarily imply sinless, 100% of the time, but signifies, rather, completeness, integrity, sincerity, but in a relative sense. The Hebrew term tam is equivalent to the Greek teleios, which is often translated perfect in the NT but which is better translated "full grown" or "mature."

Folks don't consider Job happened & was written before the Law, which uprightness was a little easier to attain.

serpentdove · May 31, 2017

Ariel82 said:

Yes (Ro 3:23). Kind of a legalist, too.

How 'bout those friends? With friends like that, who needs enemies?

BillG · May 31, 2017

I must admit, the book of Job is one of favourite.

I get so much from this and my reading goes beyond the characters involved.

Read chapters 38-42.

Here we see the magnificence of God, the grace and love of God.
We think we know God but read those chapters and say if we can, yeh I truly know God.

We find a few times God says to Job

Brace yourself like a man.

When i first read that line this was my thought

"crap this guy is in trouble he's gonna get both barrels" that is what I thought if God said that to that to me.

The following amaze me

Job 40:3-5
Job's Response to God
Then Job answered the Lord and said:
“Behold, I am vile;
What shall I answer You?
I lay my hand over my mouth.
Once I have spoken, but I will not answer;
Yes, twice, but I will proceed no further.”

then we find Job saying

Job 42:4-6
Listen, please, and let me speak;
You said, ‘I will question you, and you shall answer Me.’
“I have heard of You by the hearing of the ear,
But now my eye sees You.
Therefore I abhor myself,
And repent in dust and ashes.”

I see a really big difference here.

Now Job actually sees God with eyes and sees him own self as he truly is, then he repents.

When he does this we see the grace and love of God.

I won't post the verses but is C 42 7-16

so to summarise for me

The book of Job to me brings out the magnificence of God, how he gently deals with us (he didn't come down them like a ton of bricks), how he restored them and gave back more.

What a great God we have

serpentdove · May 31, 2017

dcontroversal said:

Eliphaz: Job, you're suffering because of your sin. Bildad: Job, you're a hypocrite. Zophar: Job, you're wicked. Elihu: an intercessor rather than a judge, more respectful (Missler).

serpentdove · May 31, 2017

Ariel82 said:

Father-filtered troubles.

BillG · May 31, 2017

Stephen63 said:

Thats my understanding that the book of Job was written before the law.

serpentdove · May 31, 2017

Ariel82 said:

Job 2
13 So they sat down with him on the ground seven days and seven nights, and no one spoke a word to him, for they saw that his grief was very great.

****

Did anyone notice this verse? How many of you have friends who would sit on the ground next to you silent for 7 days and night because you are suffering?

My dog would do that. Far more loving.

Rockrz · May 31, 2017

That's a good way to put it....BTW, whaddup with all the big letters???

God told the devil that Job was already in his power... and we know why... Job himself gave us the key to understanding what happened when he said "what I have feared has come upon me"

so, God didn't really have a choice but to "allow" the devil to slap him around a little because Job had already broken down the hedge of protection that God put around Him. God did not just willy nilly take the hedge down since the gifts and callings of God are without repentance.... meaning, God cannot up and decide to remove the hedge because they would make Him a liar and it's impossible for Him to lie.

But, the Lord did limit how far nutjob could go by telling him he could not take his life.

Job was a sinner too!

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